Is it morally wrong to think that another country (or countries) are better than the United States?

[slzzpz]

I heard someone summarize it pretty well: USA is the third world country of 1st world nations.

 

[moo_nieu]

Infant mortality rate can be a good measure of a country’s overall health. It’s something the U.S. could definitely improve.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/infant-mortality-rate

 

[Lavamaize]

Last night, I was shamed by my parents, mainly by my dad, for saying that I believe France is superior to the United States. My reasons for this are quite simple, actually, despite me being an American:

• France has a much better standard of living, especially when it comes to its healthcare system.
• It has a far more educated populace, unlike the US (and, I'm sorry, but the fact that so many American right-wingers are poorly educated emboldens these sentiments in myself, with many being ignorant on basic history and current events).
• Its election process seems superior to what the United States has-there is no electoral college (which has no parallel whatsoever to other democratic nations), and instead, there is a two-round vote, which the first round, if no one gets a majority, determines who will be the top two candidates that will be the presidential candidates in the second round (Brazil and Argentina have similar systems).
• On the same subject of French politics versus American, the French political parties offer more choice ideologically, whereas the Overton window in the US is clearly very small-not only do we essentially have nothing more than a two-party system and have for nearly two and a half centuries, but the Democrats are basically in the same position ideologically-if not to the right of-French and other European conservative parties, with the Republicans by and large, I am well aware, being seen in Western Europe as extremist parties that, in France, only Marine Le Pen's National Rally could compare to.
• France just simply historically has a rich culture and one filled with the arts, one that the United States simply cannot keep up with. Perhaps American culture has been better-exported, but even then, that's a recent trend that arguably didn't happen until after World War II, whereas France's influence in the arts has existed since the 18th century.
• As a bisexual guy, it's worth noting that France beat the United States by two years on same-sex marriage legalization, and the US was well behind many other developed nations on this.
• France's handling of the coronavirus pandemic hasn't been the greatest, but the response from the United States has been atrocious, and we have one-fifth of the world's cases.
• Clearly, with Donald Trump refusing to concede an election loss to Joe Biden, while I have more faith in the American people now with Biden's election victory, Trump has made a mockery of American democracy, and I still maintain, for this reason, that electoral politics in France are superior to its American counterpart.
• Freedom fries. That point I will leave at that.
• Without France, there would be no United States-French support for the US in the Revolutionary War is how it became independent from Great Britain, after all.

What it is, these discussions came into light because I was heavily criticized by my parents, as well as my uncle on my mom's side (her older brother) for having the possible (just a viewpoint they were afraid I might have) viewpoint that I thought Japan was superior to the United States as I was, and still am, a Japanophile. This was way back in 2012, however, and I was only 12 years old then. This was a point that, honestly, because I was heckled for hours by my family for, I still am not over emotionally eight and a half years later-I know that doesn't sound good, but it was not the kind of behavior I thought a 12-year-old child should face from his own family members, especially ones as close in blood and relationship as his parents. At the time, just being a 12-year-old kid, I never once did think about a country "being superior to another", I just simply was a 12-year-old boy who liked Japanese culture, and I still do now that I'm 20 years old. However, it seriously led me to raise questions-something that still boggled my mind as late as now-about what constitutes a "superior country", and if it's quite as cut and dry as a lot of Americans who consider themselves "patriotic" and "nationalistic" seem to be.

My parents consider it morally wrong to consider any country, in any way, better than the United States, which is why I ask. When I mention that of my two parents that got upset with me over this, it was my father in particular who lashed out at me in anger-after saying this in a phone conversation with him, he yelled at me.

Also, keep in mind that this belief I have is a fairly recent one. I'm not saying that the United States can never be better than France-but maybe, to at least be as good as it, it could take a thing or two from France and other countries-such as Japan-and learn a thing or two. My mother says that what makes us so great is our military, but is military strength really everything?

It's not morally wrong. Eveyone is entitiled to an opinion. While I do not view the US as superior or inferior to any other country, I would like to state a few things about the US myself:

• While it may seem like the US may not have clearly visible "culture" so to say, in my opinon, the US culture revolves around the diverse population it has, and the devlopment through time of the US. I like to think of the US's culture as a lot of the historic events that happened through time and the current diversity of the US. An example of the historic event is the westward movement of pioneers and such who eventually influenced things such as Cowboys and Wild Western towns to appear (by no means am I saying evey historic event in the US was a postive one though). I would say that could be an example of culture, and the reason I think Ameican culture gets looked over as non-existent so much is because it does not solely revolve around one topic of interest. I would also say the creativity and innvoation allowed in the US could also been seen as part of the "culture".
• In addition, while France was a major help in the Amercian Revelotion and winning it, I wouldn't say they are soley responsible for the victory itself but played a major part in helping achieve it. It is also fair to note though, at this time France was still a monarchy, and later the American Revolution inspired the French Revolution.

Overall, I think it's really hard to determine if another country is better than another becuase it really comes down to patiorism of certain people and opinion wise a lot of the times, but when I read the media about other countries I like to remeber that often times, they will focus on the bad events, and forget to mention all the good that can happen eveyday. I guess my takeaway is to just remember that you can't always judge a place by the media, and that each country is individually unqiue in their own way and has it's own individual problems they can improve on.

 

[EmmaFrost]

I’m not sure how this is a question of morality. To assert that your country is the best country in the world takes a certain degree of nationalism, arrogance, and inherent xenophobia that I’m uncomfortable with lmao. Especially if someone tries to say the UNITED STATES is the greatest country in the world. AmErIcAn eXcEpTiOnALiSm

 

[mayortiffany]

It's not morally wrong, and it's especially not morally wrong if you live somewhere outside of the United States. Even a patriot does not have to blindly accept everything about their country in order to be a patriot. It's American exceptionalism at its finest.

It's simply not true that the United States is the best in the world in a number of metrics (without considering the valid concerns we can have for some of these indices because that would make this a very boring methodological post):

1. According to the 2019 Democracy Index, the United States is a flawed democracy. It ranked 25th in the world.
2. The 2019 Corruption Perceptions Index by Transparency International ranks the United States 23rd in the world. It is possible that corruption is worse than this index indicates because it only tracks perceptions of corruption, and because corruption is meant to be hidden, it means that a lot of corruption isn't often recognized and so won't appear in this index.
3. The 2019 Human Development Index ranks the United States in 15th place. It tracks life expectancy, education, and per capita income.
4. NPR and Pro Publica released a report arguing that United States has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the developed world, as of 2017. They show that American maternal mortality is increasing while the rest of the developed world is seeing decreases.
5. In PISA (which ranks academic achievement amongst 15 year olds in various countries), the United States ranked 38/71 in math and 24/71 in science. Not bad, but still behind other advanced industrial countries.
6. World perceptions of the United States are the lowest they've been since Pew Research started tracking this a few decades ago. In my home country of Canada, only 16% of survey respondents said the United States did a good job of handling the coronavirus, only 35% have a favourable view of the United Staetes, and only 20% have confidence in President Trump.

Certainly, these results aren't bad at all, but they also don't signal that the United States is superior either.

Also, on the note of military strength, there are some political scientists who actually argue that while the United States is still, in absolute terms, the most powerful military in the world, there has been relative decline in that strength in recent years. And of course, that some of the money that's being spent on the military could be better used elsewhere.

 

[nintendofan85]

As someone who has lived in three different countries so far, I've found that each one has it's own pros and cons and whether someone likes one above the rest really depends on what their priorities are/what things they are willing to sacrifice in order to have access to something else.

I will say though, that one person's experience in a country can vary vastly from someone else when the two individuals are not within the same income range. My experience living in some countries (or even specifically cities) are incomparable to other people's that I know who also have lived there because our financial situations were so different.

Things that they would say are pros were things I did not even consider to be worth weighing into my own personal comparison because it would never be economically obtainable in my situation. This goes both ways as well as someone who is originally from what would be considered a "developing" country. The things I had access to that made my view of that country not as bad, were not accessible by other parts of the population, so their opinions regarding livability was different than mine.

As someone who grew up in the South, that's another attitude I don't get about white Southern Americans-they seem to act like the South is the greatest part within the United States, when compared to wealthier states in the North and West... erm, it's lacking at best. I'm probably stating an understatement there.

Post automatically merged: Nov 11, 2020

while I don't agree with saying that any country is superior to another, I have to admit that the US has basically reduced itself back to third world country status. there are many countries that are doing better than we are, notably those in Europe.

we don't have universal healthcare or free college education, our country is riddled with people who basically hoard all the nation's wealth and leave the rest to rot, politics literally divides people at the center, our country has somehow handled the coronavirus in the worst way possible, plus the fact that anyone could think that Trump would make a good president still baffles me.

This so much: in Mississippi, just because I used to be moderate politically, I was called a communist by people-and something I've noticed about Americans, particularly with those with conservative political views, is that they basically call anything they dislike "communist".

Post automatically merged: Nov 11, 2020

Definitely not. Perhaps I'm picking on the word choice a bit much here, but I have to wonder how valuing another country's culture and practices that may potentially bring, or help achieve, a greater quality of life over your own is 'morally wrong.' It's not harmful to have a global outlook.

I see how the belief can be rooted if you've only experienced living in one country and lived fairly comfortably. Being presented with new ideas may put one on edge, but I'd say it's more harmful to downright refuse other possibilities rather than being open-minded.

It probably didn't help that my mom said that, despite claiming to be an expert on Europe, she admitted she knows very little about France. Hell, on Japan, she said she knew very little other than "Their soldiers ate our soldiers' hearts during World War II, so they must be evil!"

Post automatically merged: Nov 11, 2020

It's not morally wrong, and it's especially not morally wrong if you live somewhere outside of the United States. Even a patriot does not have to blindly accept everything about their country in order to be a patriot. It's American exceptionalism at its finest.

It's simply not true that the United States is the best in the world in a number of metrics (without considering the valid concerns we can have for some of these indices because that would make this a very boring methodological post):

1. According to the 2019 Democracy Index, the United States is a flawed democracy. It ranked 25th in the world.
2. The 2019 Corruption Perceptions Index by Transparency International ranks the United States 23rd in the world. It is possible that corruption is worse than this index indicates because it only tracks perceptions of corruption, and because corruption is meant to be hidden, it means that a lot of corruption isn't often recognized and so won't appear in this index.
3. The 2019 Human Development Index ranks the United States in 15th place. It tracks life expectancy, education, and per capita income.
4. NPR and Pro Publica released a report arguing that United States has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the developed world, as of 2017. They show that American maternal mortality is increasing while the rest of the developed world is seeing decreases.
5. In PISA (which ranks academic achievement amongst 15 year olds in various countries), the United States ranked 38/71 in math and 24/71 in science. Not bad, but still behind other advanced industrial countries.
6. World perceptions of the United States are the lowest they've been since Pew Research started tracking this a few decades ago. In my home country of Canada, only 16% of survey respondents said the United States did a good job of handling the coronavirus, only 35% have a favourable view of the United Staetes, and only 20% have confidence in President Trump.

Certainly, these results aren't bad at all, but they also don't signal that the United States is superior either.

Also, on the note of military strength, there are some political scientists who actually argue that while the United States is still, in absolute terms, the most powerful military in the world, there has been relative decline in that strength in recent years. And of course, that some of the money that's being spent on the military could be better used elsewhere.

The United States also has quite high rates compared to other developed nations in income inequality.

 

[LadyDestani]

It is absolutely not wrong, morally or otherwise. No country is perfect but some are better than others in certain areas. Of course, individuals are going to have different opinions based on which of those areas is the most important to them. So for instance, while your mom may favor military strength, not everybody will.

I think it's a good thing for people to think for themselves, question things and form their own opinions. Looking to other countries that do certain things better than our country can help us grow and better our own nation. We can also look at failings within those systems, such as universal healthcare (wishful thinking), to find ways to improve on them and make our own system even better.

Blindly believing that your own country is superior just because you happened to be born there gets us nowhere. We should always be looking to improve and admiring other countries, cultures, and ways of life is a great way to diversify your knowledge which makes for a stronger, healthier perspective.

 

[samsquared]

it's empirical fact that the usa is not the greatest country in the world- forget about "morals" (although, like other posters, i have no clue how morality factors into this)

we live in a country..

• with a strict socioeconomic racial caste system that sells the labor of human beings without fair wage or without wage at all,
• has had, in its past and currently RIGHT NOW, concentration camps where people are dying & mothers/fathers are separated from their children as early as infancy....
• incites wars & coups so it can traffick guns illegally to other (often poor) countries and make money off of the natural resources of said countries,
• has created an INCREDIBLE surveillance infrastructure that allows the govt. to see, hear, and monitor every person within its borders at almost all hours,
• and supports an institution first created to catch & subjugate slaves and exterminate native americans in its unmitigated assault on the civil liberties of not just the people who dare reproach it but the original people it was created to capture and kill.

so yeah
there are a lot of great things about america, but this almost christ-like worship of the government that is more invested in pumping gas into war machine than it is in supporting its own people- this belief that having to live in these conditions is both normal and good, and to question it is an expression of your unrighteous hatred of america...
love isn't unquestioning loyalty. if you really love america, you'll try & help it change and get through its issues & come out the other side a better country- not enable its worst behaviors. if we never changed this country at all because we just loved it so much & it was perfect the way it was, honestly, i wouldn't be here right now.

edit: i think this is a harsh repudiation so i'll briefly list some good things about america

• southern food/soul food- i would die for cornbread
• fourth of july- i actually like how unhinged this holiday can get & shooting off fireworks is so much fun every year
• really diverse- i don't know a lot about other countries honestly i've only ever been to CA, MX, & the bahamas but in america you have so many racial, ethnic, social groups congregating & although there is a serious racist history here, the racial tension in everyday life is very low & it's only gotten lower as i've been alive. i've never felt as if i didn't belong in a certain place
• everyday comforts- i am very grateful for what i have every day. i can put food on the table. i have internet, power, running water, a roof over my head, and i enjoy gainful employment. i know not every person around the world gets to have these blessings

 

[nintendofan85]

it's empirical fact that the usa is not the greatest country in the world- forget about "morals" (although, like other posters, i have no clue how morality factors into this)

we live in a country..

• with a strict socioeconomic racial caste system that sells the labor of human beings without fair wage or without wage at all,
• has had, in its past and currently RIGHT NOW, concentration camps where people are dying & mothers/fathers are separated from their children as early as infancy....
• incites wars & coups so it can traffick guns illegally to other (often poor) countries and make money off of the natural resources of said countries,
• has created an INCREDIBLE surveillance infrastructure that allows the govt. to see, hear, and monitor every person within its borders at almost all hours,
• and supports an institution first created to catch & subjugate slaves and exterminate native americans in its unmitigated assault on the civil liberties of not just the people who dare reproach it but the original people it was created to capture and kill.

so yeah
there are a lot of great things about america, but this almost christ-like worship of the government that is more invested in pumping gas into war machine than it is in supporting its own people- this belief that having to live in these conditions is both normal and good, and to question it is an expression of your unrighteous hatred of america...
love isn't unquestioning loyalty. if you really love america, you'll try & help it change and get through its issues & come out the other side a better country- not enable its worst behaviors. if we never changed this country at all because we just loved it so much & it was perfect the way it was, honestly, i wouldn't be here right now.

edit: i think this is a harsh repudiation so i'll briefly list some good things about america

• southern food/soul food- i would die for cornbread
• fourth of july- i actually like how unhinged this holiday can get & shooting off fireworks is so much fun every year
• really diverse- i don't know a lot about other countries honestly i've only ever been to CA, MX, & the bahamas but in america you have so many racial, ethnic, social groups congregating & although there is a serious racist history here, the racial tension in everyday life is very low & it's only gotten lower as i've been alive. i've never felt as if i didn't belong in a certain place
• everyday comforts- i am very grateful for what i have every day. i can put food on the table. i have internet, power, running water, a roof over my head, and i enjoy gainful employment. i know not every person around the world gets to have these blessings

My main issue is that the nationalism many Americans (who are mostly white) tend to have is that it gets unhealthy, seemingly...

 

[ting1984]

Why would it be morally wrong? What standards are you using to determine morality?

As many others have stated, every nation has its good points and bad points. I'm a person of faith, and the Scriptures say that God saves people from every nation, and shows no partiality toward nations:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb." (Revelation 7:9)

"So Peter opened his mouth and said: 'Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.'" (Acts 10:34-35)

Not everyone uses the New Testament as their moral standard, so they may evaluate nations according to other standards. But if I use the New Testament part of the Bible as my standard, which I do -- then I have to understand that nationalism really plays no part in who God brings toward Him. And as a result, I cannot show partiality or favoritism toward my own nation, or any other nations. If God doesn't, then as a believer, why should I?

 

[Mr_Persona]

No definitely not. Everyone has opinions and that's okay...but not always.

And actually l want to travel around in Asia because it's bigger and better world than US. My friend is lucky to move in Asia. She moved there 2 months ago l think. I am part Polish, Irish, and European. So l think l should at least get one trip there. Still didn't wish l was born in US.

 

[mayortiffany]

incites wars & coups so it can traffick guns illegally to other (often poor) countries and make money off of the natural resources of said countries,

The history of American foreign intervention can be upsetting, to say the least. To give only a few examples to this thread:

The most heavily bombed country in the world (relative to its population) is Laos, and it has that status because of the American bombing of Laos from 1964 to 1973 (during the Vietnam War). The Viet Minh was using Laos to run supplies to Vietnam, and there was a growing communist movement in Laos (the Pathet Lao). I learned in a class on Southeast Asia that for every person living in Laos, 2/3 of a ton of ordinances was dropped on the country. More bombs were dropped on Laos than in the entirety of World War II combined. Today, unexploded bombs are still being found in Laos and kill and/or seriously injure thousands of people a year.

American bombings of North Korea during the Korean War have played a very big role in North Korea's hatred for the United States, for the United States dropped more bombs on North Korea than they did on the Pacific Theatre during the entirety of World War II. Less than in Laos, but still very devastating. Civilian and military targets alike were bombed, causing massive loss of life and infrastructural damage. Members of the American military at the time themselves believe that their bombing efforts likely killed around 20% of the population in North Korea, or about 1.9 million people.

If you're interested in looking at this history, other interesting events include the establishment of banana republics in Latin America, the colonization of the Philippines, American support of the Khmer Rouge, and the CIA's role in the 1979 Iranian Revolution.

 

[Dawnpiplup]

I don't think it's morally wrong to think that USA is inferior to other countries, nor do I think it's morally wrong to think that USA is superior to other countries, in some respects. You're just acknowledging that our country has some aspects that are ****ty, and vice versa.

 

[Dunquixote]

I don’t think it is wrong. I live in the US and there are many times I feel like other countries are “better.” With this being said, every country has their skeletons in their closet. Take a look at colonialism and the Balfour Declaration and the current situation in Israel. Also Guantanamo bay. The fact that many presidents in the US turn a blind eye and give money to Israel for their settlements bother me tremendously (since what they are doing is ethnic cleansing and more). The fact we criticize other countries for rigging elections but stay quiet when someone rigs one in our own country, bothers me.

Personally, I prefer the mindset that no one is better than anyone and each country has made immoral decisions and regardless - not every citizen of their country or around the world is obviously going to agree with it.

I did pick no since I’m frankly tired of the slogans we get drilled as a kid in our textbooks and stories of how great we are “justice for all” “land of the free” when the truth is grimmer than that. I disagree with a lot of our foreign policy and I can’t say I am proud of how we like to act like police to the world.

If there was a choice of, no one should think they are better than anyone else (and not just about the US specifically), I’d pick that.

 

[nintendofan85]

Why would it be morally wrong? What standards are you using to determine morality?

As many others have stated, every nation has its good points and bad points. I'm a person of faith, and the Scriptures say that God saves people from every nation, and shows no partiality toward nations:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb." (Revelation 7:9)

"So Peter opened his mouth and said: 'Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.'" (Acts 10:34-35)

Not everyone uses the New Testament as their moral standard, so they may evaluate nations according to other standards. But if I use the New Testament part of the Bible as my standard, which I do -- then I have to understand that nationalism really plays no part in who God brings toward Him. And as a result, I cannot show partiality or favoritism toward my own nation, or any other nations. If God doesn't, then as a believer, why should I?

I'm not very religious myself, but you make a good point.

 

[World Citizen]

It's not morally wrong at all and I find the question itself arrogant and pretty offensive to be honest with the usage of the word morally in this kind of conext in relation to a country that is famous for having an ego complex about itself. It's not that surprising though given its a country obsessed with focring as much patrotic (nationalistic) propaganda as it can into the minds of its citizens to create that false idea of being objectively the best. I have visited many countries and let me tell you I saw this in the USA more than any other nation, and I say that as someone who has lived in China.

 

[nintendofan85]

It's not morally wrong at all and I find the question itself arrogant and pretty offensive to be honest with the usage of the word morally in this kind of conext in relation to a country that is famous for having an ego complex about itself. It's not that surprising though given its a country obsessed with focring as much patrotic (nationalistic) propaganda as it can into the minds of its citizens to create that false idea of being objectively the best. I have visited many countries and let me tell you I saw this in the USA more than any other nation, and I say that as someone who has lived in China.

Again, do not think I am the one that wants this to be a moral matter-it's my parents who see it as one, and it's been, at best, a roadblock in my relationship with them...

 

[Katzenjammer]

Everyone has opinions and that's okay...but not always.

I'm sorry, but what do you mean when you say this? I'm confused. Thank you!

 

[Red Cat]

This is Murica, so we're #1 in everything:

#1 in COVID cases
#1 in COVID deaths
#1 in votes cast for a total moron

 

[Mr_Persona]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean when you say this? I'm confused. Thank you!

Meaning that some opinions can lead to something bad and you might regret it