(Proposal) Bell Tree Traders Guild
- Thread starter Fey
- Start date
No worries—you’re concerns are actually very much in line with my own. While I want people to be encouraged to price their goods reasonably (and admittedly, don’t mind outrageous prices being discouraged) I’m also not comfortable with creating an oppressive environment that invites unfair or direct criticism toward people operating outside of the guidelines. The guidelines should be flexible suggestions rather than “the law”.
As far as the staff goes, it sounded like they were more than busy enough with other things and had no real interest in taking a direct approach in addressing the current situation. Honestly, I understand if it stays that way. Any official stance would likely be met with lots of opposition from one side or the other, and could very easily get messy. You might know a lot more than me though, and I’d be happy if they had some plans in mind to soothe the market!
I would love to be a part of this. The economy is completely out of whack right now and a move to normalize the economy would be welcome by me.
I think a discord would be easier for now, especially to get ourselves established. I don’t really know how you would be able to enforce guild trading on here, but someone smarter than me could probably figure something out.
I think a discord would be easier for now, especially to get ourselves established. I don’t really know how you would be able to enforce guild trading on here, but someone smarter than me could probably figure something out.
blinkcrossing
Senior Member
I am interested! Although I don't have too many ideas right now unfortunately!
If you need help setting it up i will gladly help, Ive already set up a shop with really low prices but i would prefer to close it to only guild members if it was a thing because say when im selling nmt for 20’000 bells I don’t want people taking advantage of that and suddenly selling them for 250k (which is utter bs if you ask me). It could also help if there was a guild only shop that would encourage people to lower prices in order to buy cheap products they don’t have. I just dont like the idea of someone buying it for cheap and then selling it for higher prices in their own shop :/
I hate to burst the bubble, but I just don't see this working well as proposed. There's nothing stopping non-guild members from buying things sold by guild members for inexpensive prices and then turning around and flipping it at market value for a profit. That's capitalism 101.
Maybe when TBT is back, there could be some kind of TBT membership fee to get into the guild kind of like Costco or Sam's Club (I don't know if groups are coming back, but that could be an option). That way people can't just enter for free for a quick purchase. I don't know who would get the membership fee, but there could a system to eventually refund those membership fees to members who actually sell things for fair prices. I'm just spit-balling ideas and it would take a lot of planning and commitment to implement, but it would create more of a closed market to balance supply & demand. Once TBT is back, the market may stabilize though, so this may be unnecessary.
Eventually prices will drop when there are enough Raymond clones floating around out there to meet the demand. The best thing to do is be patient because this game is going to be popular for at least a few years, so it's not like people have to get all of their dreamies within the first month or two.
Maybe when TBT is back, there could be some kind of TBT membership fee to get into the guild kind of like Costco or Sam's Club (I don't know if groups are coming back, but that could be an option). That way people can't just enter for free for a quick purchase. I don't know who would get the membership fee, but there could a system to eventually refund those membership fees to members who actually sell things for fair prices. I'm just spit-balling ideas and it would take a lot of planning and commitment to implement, but it would create more of a closed market to balance supply & demand. Once TBT is back, the market may stabilize though, so this may be unnecessary.
Eventually prices will drop when there are enough Raymond clones floating around out there to meet the demand. The best thing to do is be patient because this game is going to be popular for at least a few years, so it's not like people have to get all of their dreamies within the first month or two.
That's why I don't believe a more flexible and open system would work. The whole problem with it being too open is that you give space to the same people that ruined the economy we're trying to fix.
If 20 people form a guild and sell/buy at low/fair prices, people from outside the guild will buy from us and resell the goods for the prices that were trying to bring down out there. We would only serve as a source of cheap labor and materials to maximize the profits of the same people who made the whole idea of creating a guild to bring prices to a reasonable level needed in the first place.
It's honestly utopian to think people wouldn't jump at our lower prices and use our community to exploit it for profit. It will happen because that's exactly what happens in real world economy. That's how the rich keep being rich.
I know I'm not in the majority here, by I can't see it working if it's not a closed community. Trying to save the whole forum economy at once won't work because there's a lot of people out there profiting from the economic imbalance we're trying to fix. I would rather have a smaller community that worked together for the common good, with a fair economy and mutual respect, than trying to take a good idea and making it available to people who would ruin it because it's against their interest.
FireNinja1
inactive: please read "about" tab on profile
The idea sounds interesting, but I can't see it working in practice. There's no bindingness to any particular price point, so what is considered "reasonable" could very well be what the current market rate is. After all, enough people consider it reasonable for it to be used. I think that the previous ten posts or so summarize my other criticisms of this system really well, so I won't repeat them here.
matchaman
꘎♡ no. 1 badtz-maru appreciator ⁂̩̩͙ ⁑̩͙̩ ⁎̩͙
Agree to disagree. Fey proposed the option (which they didn't encourage, just put out there, in order to keep trades open to all) that guild members can keep their trades/shops limited to other guild members, in order to prevent resale at ridiculous prices. Trying to implement a TBT fee system would be making things way more difficult than they need to be, and having a discord server could likely solve the issue in a more streamlined fashion, don't quote me on this in case I'm wrong though lol
I’m not saying it’s without risk, especially in the beginning.
What I am saying is that those trying to resell for profit will eventually run out of customers.
Example: If enough people start offering flowers for reasonable prices, customers wouldn’t be interested in buying those same flowers for higher prices. If there’s two choices, they’ll always go for the cheaper option. That’s economics 101
The good reputation of the Guild would probably also gain sellers more customers over time, as they’d have proven themselves as being fair and making a positive impact on the community.
These are just my thoughts though.
We will work out a way to best survey people’s preferences for a Guild model. If the majority wants it to be closed, it can be a closed market. At that point it should be discussed with staff though (if it’s still to take place within the forum)
What I am saying is that those trying to resell for profit will eventually run out of customers.
Example: If enough people start offering flowers for reasonable prices, customers wouldn’t be interested in buying those same flowers for higher prices. If there’s two choices, they’ll always go for the cheaper option. That’s economics 101
The good reputation of the Guild would probably also gain sellers more customers over time, as they’d have proven themselves as being fair and making a positive impact on the community.
These are just my thoughts though.
We will work out a way to best survey people’s preferences for a Guild model. If the majority wants it to be closed, it can be a closed market. At that point it should be discussed with staff though (if it’s still to take place within the forum)
I don`t think there is a way to get it fair and balanced. Even if you keep prices low, the low prices will be lower if you get your bells or miles in illegitimate ways, You could set a max price which is reasonable and make it first come, first go, but still. I don't know if I like a system which is going to exclude others in one way or another, by giving others preferental treatment. That doesn`t exclude cheaters, it excludes everyone not interesting in joining a guild. In itself thats fine and you can always set up a trading group on an external site, but I don`t like the thought of it operating on this forum.
I can imagine it sounding attractive to players who are deadset on obtaining their dreamies who now are unaffordable. For me this isn`t the way to go. I don`t like the idea of letting people in or not. Are you going to let anyone in, only excluding them when you know for sure they did something against the guild rules? Mehhh, it all sounds so over the top for a computer game, but to each their own I guess.
I can imagine it sounding attractive to players who are deadset on obtaining their dreamies who now are unaffordable. For me this isn`t the way to go. I don`t like the idea of letting people in or not. Are you going to let anyone in, only excluding them when you know for sure they did something against the guild rules? Mehhh, it all sounds so over the top for a computer game, but to each their own I guess.
If enough people were selling scarce products such as some villagers and hybrids, then the prices wouldn't be so crazy to begin with. If flowers were offered for lower prices, they would immediately be scooped up and hoarded in some cases and then there will be nothing left at those lower prices and the higher priced stuff will still sell. If there is more supply of a product than there is demand for that product, then there is no need for a guild because sellers would have to undercut each other to sell their product. But for low supply, high demand products like Raymond, there is no need to undercut for the time being and selling him way below market value will just lead to a stampede of people trying to beat each other out for him.
Furthermore, if there are no strings attached to being in the guild, then what's the point? Even if some members will only sell to others in the guild, it doesn't matter if I can just join the guild to buy cheap products from guild members and then continue to sell at market value as I normally do. Why wouldn't I? It would basically be free money. I'm not trying to bash the idea; I'm just trying to be realistic about what will happen. At the end of the day, we'll still have the same situation where not everyone will get what they want when they want it.
Well, I see a lot of downsides to this idea as well, but an upside would be that although people can still abuse the system and sell their cheaper gotten villagers and items for higher prices, there would be an increased chance of those villagers and items finding their way to players who actually were desperate to get them at a fair price, because now they would be priced in the market.
I don`t think possible abusing the system is a reason to not place a system, you see that with laws being designed for those who abuse them, instead of those who honor them, making good people fall victim to not getting the protection or benefits they deserve. However, I feel there has to be enough positive gain from it. I do think we would gain something from it, I just don`t know if its worth the price.
matchaman
꘎♡ no. 1 badtz-maru appreciator ⁂̩̩͙ ⁑̩͙̩ ⁎̩͙
Your concerns are completely have me wondering too. Perhaps one of the only ways the guild system could really take off and successfully keep to it's main basis of good prices, would be to enforce a tough law, where if you buy something off the guild, resale of the item for a higher price is prohibited (although there could be exceptions for something like a villager, if they move out naturally or you don't want them anymore, etc.).
This is basically the point I wanted to get across. Well said! Great in theory, but realistically, until everyone has their dreamies/items they want, this is how it will work. This happened for New Leaf as well, eventually it sorted itself out.
Que
Professional Procrastinator
I'd love to be a part of this! The inflated prices make it unbelievably hard to keep up and I keep finding that I'm overpaying, but also undercharging. If enough people joined in on this, I believe it could work!
This.
The reason I know why an open system wouldn't work is because I'm well versed in a game called Magic: The Gathering. Magic's market is close to stock market, but far more wild, as there's no regulations. Buyouts to inflate the prices are common, and people hoarding stacks of sealed boxes of specific sets also are very common.
There's a rarity system that by itself makes some cards harder to get than others, but then, there's an added layer of desirability called "does this card see play?", which means better cards (which more often than not, are also the least common cards) are always in high demand.
People try to get their cards from others who are new to the game or simply don't know how the pricing works, so they can flip those cards for more profits. Should a guild in this model be created, richer players and store owners would buy everything at once to flip at higher prices, because the more money you have, more chances you have to control the market and skew it in the direction you want it to go.
Now, I can see how a closed environment could work, but that would also need to be created and maintained based one trust and respect between the players. It's easier to set this up with friends that are closer of a small group of like-minded people, and realistically, even if said group could attract more people with the same goal, expanding too much would inevitably destroy the whole thing from inside out, as the more people you add to the group, there's more chances for one of them screwing everything up.
I don't know if I'm being helpful or not, but I just wanted to point this out because I can see that this thread was made by someone who really cares about the game and it's community, and I really like to see a change for the better, too, even if I think a change like this would demand more strict guidelines.
If you want something like this to work and for us to be in support of it, then here are a few points you should consider:
- If this looks too much like a secret club or a clique, it will cause problems and people will get upset. If we see people limiting who they are willing to sell to then this would be an issue as well.
- Blacklisting would be in violation of The Bell Tree Rules and Guidelines.
- If you want to move this off-TBT to Discord, then we cannot support the cause or help you if anything goes wrong because it is out of our domain.
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