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My good friend Jeff told me the COVID-19 pandemic is over, but now people are saying it's back. As a fully vaccinated Moderna Man, I am no longer afraid of the virus. But I do fear for society as a whole, that we will never return to "normal".
At this point, in such a debilitating social climate, we need to focus less on the negatives. Instead, we should try to focus on being there for each other to talk, listen, and show love. News and media have created a constant state of agony where we constantly look for someone else to blame for our problems. Turning off the news and looking out for yourself and your friends will keep us more connected, help prevent loneliness, and hopefully remove that awful feeling of despair we seem to wake up with most days. Take your happiness into your own hands, even when it's hard.
Ontario is sort of starting to make vaccines mandatory, but they're dancing around the issue. It's not really mandatory it's a, "you have to get the vaccine!!! .... but if you really don't want to you can watch an educational video and get tested weekly,".
I find it frustrating where they say it's mandated but they still give a workaround, because it defeats the whole purpose. My school sent out a message saying people will be "required" to get the vaccine, but then says that people who don't have it will just be tested and have to attend an education session on vaccines... which basically means they're not "required" at all. I don't think it will help unless they actually start telling people they have to get vaccinated or they can't go on campus, period. One of my classes next semester is in-person, and I'm very concerned that I could be in a classroom with unvaccinated people, especially because I'm not comfortable with in-person classes right now anyway, mandatory vaccines or not.
I'm really hoping they introduce something that allows certain places/activities to be restricted only to vaccinated people, and that would likely motivate other people to get vaccinated, too. I know someone who didn't want the vaccine, but the only reason he ended up getting it was because without it, he wouldn't be allowed to play baseball in Arizona, of all things (we live in Canada). At my grade school and high school you were required to show proof of vaccination against measles/polio/rubella/etc. or else you would automatically be suspended until you got vaccinated, and no one ever made a big deal about it, but now all of a sudden it's become a political issue.
I believe being vaccinated is a responsibility to everyone who is able to (I have nothing against those who have a valid reason to not get it), because you're not just protecting yourself, you're protecting everyone you come into contact with, and those who can get it but choose not to are willingly putting the lives of everyone else at risk. It's annoying that this all could have been over ages ago if everyone actually had common sense, and that ignorance and selfishness are killing people.
in my opinion it is also the responsibility of any moral person who wants to live in a society to be vaccinated and protect those who cannot be vaccinated, that is my personal belief, and i understand all do not share it, but for me it is the same reason that you shouldn’t drink and drive - in a society, our actions are not just for ourselves, but to protect the vulnerable. I understand that is my own personal view point, but I am entitled to it and to disagree with those who feel they are entitled to endanger my family and friends. I think people who could get vaccinated but choose not to because of made up reasons are selfish.That’s my opinion and it isn’t some great persecution against anyone - if they are entitled to their opinions and actions then I am entitled to mine. personally, I would like the pandemic to end, or at least become manageable, but at every turn this is thwarted by people, whether ‘anti-maskers’ or ‘anti-vaxxers’ who would rather risk themselves and everyone around them, than actually respect objective facts and science.
Simply responding to this point, my college has brought back mask mandates (at least for the foreseeable future) for the 2021-2022 academic year, and in all honesty, especially as the case numbers increase due to Delta, I plan (even if admittedly I haven't been the most responsible as of late in doing so) to go back to wearing a mask regularly, even in other areas outside of my apartment even if it's not on my college campus. The risks just seem too high-also, as someone who doesn't cook much (although that may change, so I can avoid having to go to restaurants and the like), I'm going to pretty much do all of my eating this last semester I'm in college at my apartment as well-I plan to get take out or go to drive thrus if I get food from restaurants, because it's simply not worth the risk of eating indoors.
Plus, many are closed in their dining rooms anyway, so it's not like I'd have another option regardless.
We're now 18 months into this pandemic with no real end in sight and whilst I'm glad and proud to be vaccinated I have no sympathy or understanding towards those who are still against being vaccinated. I don't care that anyone who won't get vaccinated hates being called selfish because they don't trust the science and believes everything they read on the internet. Anti-vaxxers/anti-covid believers are the reason why these variants keep spreading because if they catch it, they're more likely to end up in hospital on a ventilator whilst spreading it to the others who despite being vaccinated will still become very ill from their selfish actions. In turn those that have been vaccinated will still sadly then pass it on to others and the cycle of the virus continues and we'll truly never get out of this pandemic.
I'd like to add to this point, while I have been officially been fully vaccinated since June 15, 2021 (the date marking two weeks after my second dose of the Pfizer on June 1, since it takes a couple of weeks for the vaccine to effectively "kick in" to make one have more immunity to COVID-19), I am also an asthmatic and I am sure that even if I am fully vaccinated (which really I should put the word "fully" in quotes, because like I said, the administration of Joe Biden plans to roll out a third dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines stating next month and I'll be able to get my third dose in February), I would likely have more serious symptoms from the virus than someone without asthma who has also had two shots of the Pfizer or Moderna. This has played a part as to why I'm going to, in the coming days as my college classes restart, take more precautions (along with the ones being mandatory due to my campus's rules and so forth), because let me say one thing, and this is something that a lot of the right-wing conspiracy theorists I don't think get:
It's always better to be safe than sorry.
As someone with conservative parents who comes from a very red state in the US (Alabama), many of the critiques from my parents, especially my father (who, in many ways, would consider his views to be basically be the equivalent of a right-wing libertarian), is that many of the restrictions caused by COVID-19 have been overkill (there have been many he has disagreed with I know, which I won't bother to list here as there, as I said, are numerous and I'd rather just not type that here when this is already getting pretty lengthy as it is). The issue is that if you do more than is necessary with a very contagious novel virus like this (yes, I know the pandemic was declared, like I said, nearly a year and a half ago, and the first cases began being reported in December 2019, but the thing that remains novel is that obviously many people's immune systems have never been exposed to a virus of this kind, hence why I still use the term "novel"), a lot of people won't get sick, a lot of lives will be saved, and fewer cases will spread-if you don't do enough, the opposite happens, which is why countries like the United States, the United Kingdom, India, Brazil, and Russia continue to be ravaged by COVID.
In my plans to gear up for late August 2021, even if I've been fully vaccinated since mid-June, I realize that I am not just protecting myself, I am protecting others, too. For the record, I should probably note that only one of my grandparents is still alive-my paternal grandmother, my father's mother. She is 78 and obviously at her age, even though she too got fully vaccinated (at least thus far, due to her age she'll be able to get the third dose earlier), is very much at risk of COVID-19 complications-and it's people like her that I think about, as she's obviously not the only 78-year-old person who is immunocompromised-and the truth is, complications to the immune system when it comes to respiratory viruses and other illnesses such as these have no age-like I said, I'm an asthmatic, and I'm only 21.
I hate to say that I’m nervous being around crowds again despite being fully vaccinated. I just hate how Covid was turned into such a political issue. I got my second shot early June so I’m glad I’ll get to see everyone get their third dose before me! I got pretty sick from the second shot but I’d take that over being put on a ventilator for Covid.
Honestly, I am getting the same way. I'm normally not in large crowded areas as I live in a suburban area anyway, but the Delta variant has unfortunately proven that there is still a lot about this virus that honestly is quite scary, especially with so many Americans (at least in the case of the US, I know it's happening elsewhere too, mainly in the West) not getting vaccinated.
I also had some awful side effects from the second shot of the Pfizer, including vomiting and fever, but as someone with asthma, I in no way would ever want COVID-19, especially without that vaccine.
Don't even get me started. Covid-19 has been a pain too given that we are dealing with this delta strain and its getting worse in the US. I don't know why people are so against wearing masks when they see the cases are rising. I gotten my shots since March 28th, and April 26th, but now I heard that we may need to get Booster Shots in the next 8 months for this delta variant. Idk who to trust in the media anymore this whole thing has been a complete mess.
Also and another thing that really bothers me is that it just seems like common sense is so dead in society when people don't seem to get the real issue of what this pandemic has caused around the world. Past pandemic in history were stopped when enough people just simply followed the rules of how not to get everyone sick. Today it just seems like ever since this whole "Mask Debate" came up it just seems like there is no way to get through others because they either refused the vaccine or they are not taking the virus seriously.
Believe it or not, mask debates are sadly nothing new. A lot of Americans found masks oppressive during the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, for instance, and that was the worst pandemic in recent times until COVID.
There needs to come a point where the people at are fully vaccinated, maybe after the 3rd booster, should be allowed to live their lives normally and the pandemic continues for the unvaccinated.
May I ask how you'd think this would affect international travel? Like I said, I still really want to travel to Japan, and I'd also love to also visit South Korea, Taiwan, France (where my aunt also wants to go, and she is fully vaccinated too), and Brazil (where my boyfriend is, I'm a LDR with him as I live in the States obviously as the OP of this thread), and possibly even to the United Kingdom and Argentina as well.
My parents have been in the hospital for almost two months from COVID. I cannot stand to hear people say that "it's no big deal" or "it's no worse than the flu"
For some people, yes. I had it and only experienced flu-like symptoms for a week and then got over it. But my parents, who were both very healthy and are only 45 and 50, got hit so hard that there have been multiple times we thought that they wouldn't make it. They are fully over the virus, but are still dealing with complications from long COVID.
My state is notorious for believing that it is a hoax or that it's somehow hurting them to wear a mask, and this bothers me a lot.
I am vaccinated now, but I still wear a mask while out in public because I'm afraid of being a carrier (my parents caught it from a vaccinated person)
I feel like we will eventually eradicate the virus, much like other sicknesses that were once a very big deal but are now gone, but I don't know if things will ever go back to "normal" like before. Probably a new and comfortable normal, but not the same normal.
This!!!! I’m tired of hearing about “vaccine mandates” that don’t actually mandate the vaccine. I guess the inconvenience of testing is supposed to wear you down, and I think testing is better than nothing, but it seems this option will be costly in the long term. I know mandates of anything are tricky, but I think we’re in a very unique situation here.
While, as I said, as the OP, I'm from the US meaning I'm not Canadian mentioning the situation in the province of Ontario like the girl had mentioned earlier, the issue I see with what Ontario, Canada is doing is that while it's obviously meant to wear non-vaccinated people down, at the same time there are clearly going to be holdouts regardless, and I'm well aware that Canada hasn't been immune from anti-vax sentiments just like countries such as the US or the UK. It still seems pretty toothless on Ontario's part.
My parents have been in the hospital for almost two months from COVID. I cannot stand to hear people say that "it's no big deal" or "it's no worse than the flu"
For some people, yes. I had it and only experienced flu-like symptoms for a week and then got over it. But my parents, who were both very healthy and are only 45 and 50, got hit so hard that there have been multiple times we thought that they wouldn't make it. They are fully over the virus, but are still dealing with complications from long COVID.
My state is notorious for believing that it is a hoax or that it's somehow hurting them to wear a mask, and this bothers me a lot.
I am vaccinated now, but I still wear a mask while out in public because I'm afraid of being a carrier (my parents caught it from a vaccinated person)
I feel like we will eventually eradicate the virus, much like other sicknesses that were once a very big deal but are now gone, but I don't know if things will ever go back to "normal" like before. Probably a new and comfortable normal, but not the same normal.
I am so sorry, from the bottom of my heart, to hear this about your parents. Stories like these should teach people that the downplaying of the virus's severity led to tragedies such as these, and worse.
I honestly can't say when the pandemic will end, but I don't see it happening anytime soon because people have become entrenched in their viewpoints and there is probably very little that will sway those who don't want the vaccine to get it.
Even though I am fully vaccinated, I still wear my mask in public all the time and I avoid crowded places. I am still very afraid of catching the virus and passing it on to my relatives, some of whom are vaccinated but would likely have complications anyway, and some of whom are unvaccinated and refuse to get the vaccine.
I have also witnessed the effects of the virus on an otherwise healthy 30 year old when a friend from work caught it last December. He was in the hospital for 6 months, had to have a double lung transplant, and has permanent heart and kidney damage. So, yes, this virus scares me and I will only start to feel safe and willing to return to some form of normal life when the majority of the population is vaccinated and cases drop significantly.
Like others, I've also been impacted because I really want to seek out therapy. Even without COVID, the past two years have been extremely stressful for me and I'm ready to get help, but I'm not at all comfortable with phone or online sessions. Part of my problem is that I have a phobia of talking on the phone anyway, and the other part is that I don't have a completely 'safe' space at home to talk without being overheard by other people. So I've been trying to wait out this pandemic to get the help that I desperately need, but I think I'm coming to the realization that I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and suffer through a tele-session because this isn't ending. Of course, that's if I'm even able to get an appointment if they aren't booked solid.
I'm so tired of waiting for this to go away and it seems like it never will.
And here we thought the answer to this crap would be just to get vaccinated. It's never ending.
I really hope there's some sort of vaccine created for the Delta variant soon. I'm already fully vaccinated which makes me feel a little better but I'm still weary due to this new variant.
And here we thought the answer to this crap would be just to get vaccinated. It's never ending.
I really hope there's some sort of vaccine created for the Delta variant soon. I'm already fully vaccinated which makes me feel a little better but I'm still weary due to this new variant.
I see you're from Canada, not the United States like I am, but like I said, President Joe Biden already announced plans (that the FDA I believe had already approved) to get a third dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines which would be more effective against the Delta variant. However, like I said, the problem is that you can't get it until eight months after your second dose of either vaccine-meaning I can't get it until February 1, 2022.
And I'm sorry, but February 1 just seems like it's going to be a while. I mean, time might go by faster than we think, even though the Biden administration plans the rollout of the third dose to begin next month (first starting with the elderly for obvious reasons, as the vaccine rollout first began in January), but obviously the Delta variant could still lead to serious increases of both cases and deaths due to COVID-19 in late 2021 and early 2022.
I've always said that it's not going to end anytime soon. Especially considering countries that had a much slower initial response, they never had a chance to fully eliminate the virus so it just keeps spreading. I've always said give it about 5 years.
As a NZer I've had a good taste of normal, but the delta variant has given us a wake up call to not become complacent. We had one case in the community and went into lockdown. That one case has now turned into 107 and counting. 7 people are currently hospitalized over it. If that doesn't prove how dangerous and contagious this virus is, I don't know what will. We've gone full circle from being in lockdown, stamping out the virus, returning to normal, and now the cycle is starting again. Perhaps that's the future for other countries as well until everyone is vaccinated.
Since individualism is a HUGE part of USA culture and lots of people adhere to the "I'm going to do whatever I want and nobody can tell me otherwise" mentality, the pandemic just cannot end in the US. It really takes cooperation, mandated quarantine, mandated masks, and vaccination to get herd immunity and to reduce the spread of COVID-19. This is ESPECIALLY important to help protect our sick community members who cannot get vaccinated as well as children who have yet to get vaccinated.
People are starting to think that they're invincible with the vaccine but that's really not the case — it mainly prevents you from dying a painful death or being unable to breathe properly/ taste flavors for the rest of your life. It's STILL important to mask up and follow social distancing.
Variant or not, please CONTINUE to mask up and be cautious. Better safe than paying with you or your loved ones' lives.
Just a reminder that even this is not a promise. There are vaccinated people in hospitals. You could easily be one of them. Are the odds in your favor? Yes. Will the odds being in your favor prevent you from begging for your life as you drown in fluids and need oxygen? Nope.
All that stuff people say on the outside is nonsense. Once you're inside those walls you are begging. Don't be one of those people. No one is brave when their body is screaming out for the need for air. Nobody has ever told a nurse, "I played the numbers and I lost. What a bummer!"
As a NZer I've had a good taste of normal, but the delta variant has given us a wake up call to not become complacent. We had one case in the community and went into lockdown. That one case has now turned into 107 and counting. 7 people are currently hospitalized over it. If that doesn't prove how dangerous and contagious this virus is, I don't know what will. We've gone full circle from being in lockdown, stamping out the virus, returning to normal, and now the cycle is starting again. Perhaps that's the future for other countries as well until everyone is vaccinated.
Nonetheless, the quickness to lockdown in New Zealand is why I must applaud Jacinda Ardern. Her response has been considered among the best of some world leaders, including President Moon Jae-in of South Korea and Prime Minister Katrín Jakobsdóttir of Iceland. (Under President Tsai Ing-wen's leadership, Taiwan's handling of the pandemic was also heavily praised, but Taiwan appears to have relaxed lockdowns too early while the Taiwanese government has had a slow rollout of the vaccine, which is why there has been a massive rise in cases in recent months in Taiwan, even though its response to the pandemic as a country had largely been seen as a role model for other nations to follow) Countries like India, Brazil, and Russia continue to be badly hit by the pandemic because of the decisions by their leaders like Narendra Modi, Jair Bolsonaro, and Vladimir Putin, all right-wing populists.
And this was the same case in the United States when we still had Donald Trump as well. Fortunately Trump wasn't re-elected and Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential election (I proudly cast my first-ever vote in a presidential election for Biden), but sadly, just because the Biden administration is in office does not mean these ignorant attitudes have gone away among right-wingers... But it looks like that given New Zealand's current situation and what Ardern is dealing with right now, it goes to show you don't have to have a right-wing populist in office to have these ignorant attitudes and actions from people continue to take place (it's worth noting that NZ, like the US, is also a Western country). Here in the United States, it hasn't even been just President Joe Biden who has been trying to press people to get vaccinated-Vice President Kamala Harris and other figures in the Biden administration have been trying to get more vaccinations to happen as well among more Americans, but I'm not sure there's a way that the president could force people to get vaccinated...
But I can only echo and reiterate a lot of the sentiments echoed earlier here, especially by fellow Americans such as myself: if so few people in the US get vaccinated, then the pandemic will continue to drag on, and this will be the case regardless of whether or a Democrat or a Republican is in the White House.
First of all, I know that maybe me making this thread isn't exactly in the best of timing as obviously the last year and a half have been dominated by numerous COVID-related threads here on Brewster's Cafe on this forum, but as I'm an American, this is a topic I really would like to discuss.
Perhaps naively, as far back as May, I thought the worst of the pandemic was largely behind us. Around this time I was receiving my two doses of the Pfizer vaccine and it seemed like things were reopening and we were returning to the lives we had before the virus came.
Then the Delta variant started seriously spreading, and maybe things have started to reverse in terms of speed somewhat, but here in the United States anyway, the vaccination rate began to stall. Even now, only around 52% of Americans are fully vaccinated, which is just barely over half of the nation's population. The Delta variant appears to be making case numbers dramatically increase.
For myself, all of this comes at a time of headwinds and crossroads. In just a few days, I'm starting my last semester of college, set to graduate in December. I do plan to go to law school after college, but I won't be able to start until the 2022-2023 academic year begins a year from now-so I'll be having a gap semester in the spring of 2022. However, many of the goals I had set for myself as I had thought the COVID-19 pandemic would be over with by then, such as traveling abroad and doing internships, now seem to be becoming impossible.
What does everyone think here? From a standpoint domestically here in the US, it's very easy for me to blame those who refuse to get vaccinated or even wear masks (as many mask mandates are now returning, even for vaccinated citizens). At the same time, I have to realize when talking about traveling abroad (especially as I've been hoping to travel to Japan as soon as possible) that not only are other countries unfortunately having to get vaccinated later, since so much of the development of the vaccines was done in the US anyway (plus, for example in the case of Japan, its government has had a slow rollout of the vaccine under the administration of its prime minister, Yoshihide Suga, which is part of the reason why Japan's vaccination rate is the lowest of all G7 countries, although ironically that of G7 nations, the US's rate is the second-lowest behind Japan's), but also, other variants could clearly come as well, and be even more contagious than the Delta variant is, which is already the most contagious variant of COVID-19 ever found.
It just is now starting to really seem like this pandemic will drag on and it has no end in sight, and it just seems like from an American perspective that people's selfishness is pretty much the biggest cause, although I know that cannot necessarily be reiterated abroad. (Although, I am aware that in some countries such as France and Australia, protests against lockdowns and vaccine passports have been taking place, especially as French President Emmanuel Macron has discussed the idea) It's just a shame that opportunities that normally seem like they'd have perfect timing for may now not be able to happen all because this virus drags on.
Fortunately, a third dose will eventually come, but I won't be able to get it until February 2022, as you aren't supposed to get it until eight months after getting the second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna.
American here!
I don't think it will ever "fully end"... but as a pandemic status?? Probably 2023-2024 would be my guess. Pfizer just had their vaccine fully approved which I think will help with the vaccination rate.. I mean, even I am more comfortable knowing it has full FDA approval. Does that mean if we have everyone vaccinated (btw I am highly against forced vaccination... and it absolutely goes against Medical Law and Ethics) the variants aren't just gonna "disappear". Fact is, Delta formed last year in India... so it really is totally unfair to blamed the unvaccinated for this variant. The vaccine wasn't even available during that time anyway. Practically during the shutdown, "each country developed their own variant".
I also find it highly unfair to blame the southern border for variants, as Delta reached the US before Lambda, and Gamma which first found themselves in Peru and Brazil. Delta I personally think came through the airports possibility through business/corporation travels and meetings.
We also have the variable that you can still contract and spread the virus with a vaccine. yeah yeah I know peeps be saying that it is rare... but that isn't what this is about. Any time a person is infected, that is a chance for mutation vaccinated or not. Does not matter if the virus entered your nose for 5 min, an hour, or for 3 days. Whether you test positive for the virus or not.
Another is that not all countries have access to the vaccines, Not all people use the same type of vaccine. I mean, some vaccines are more effective than others and some countries have banned certain ones for safety concerns or they prefer to make and use their own created vaccine.
I feel like all of this plays a role on how the pandemic is, will be, and how long it will "last".
---added----
Oh I also forgot to link this for those interested. it is a variant tracker. https://www.axios.com/variants-tracker/
And I also wanted to mentioned the CDC noted that for unknown reasons, the vaccinated are getting a large collection of covid pathogens gathered in their throat and nose. Not saying the vaccines don't work or that people should avoid the vaccines, but it is just another point about variants... Actually this was what the Massachusetts case was about (Americans have mixed feelings about it) and what drove the US back into the Masks again. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
NOTE ADDED
yeah don't bother quoting me if you are just going to compare the vaccinated and the unvaccinated when my post was directly replying to the OP and was focusing on the Variables with Variants and how long the status of Pandemic may last in USA.
I'd like to go back to Japan (traveled there once on vacation and also lived there for 3 years separately) but right now that's literally impossible. Due to COVID, Japan has a travel ban on tourists and has had it for a while. The Olympics was a special exception. I don't know when this is going to change. Maybe once COVID gets more under control.
When is COVID going to get under control? Who knows. It's been going on for about a year and a half now. Initially I thought it would've been over by now, but between masks and vaccines being politicized and the variants that keep cropping up, I don't see it stopping anytime soon at this point. It honestly may never completely end. COVID may become something we have to live with that people get from time to time, just like the flu and the common cold.
American here!
I don't think it will ever "fully end"... but as a pandemic status?? Probably 2023-2024 would be my guess. Pfizer just had their vaccine fully approved which I think will help with the vaccination rate.. I mean, even I am more comfortable knowing it has full FDA approval. Does that mean if we have everyone vaccinated (btw I am highly against forced vaccination... and it absolutely goes against Medical Law and Ethics) the variants aren't just gonna "disappear". Fact is, Delta formed last year in India... so it really is totally unfair to blamed the unvaccinated for this variant. The vaccine wasn't even available during that time anyway. Practically during the shutdown, "each country developed their own variant".
I also find it highly unfair to blame the southern border for variants, as Delta reached the US before Lambda, and Gamma which first found themselves in Peru and Brazil. Delta I personally think came through the airports possibility through business/corporation travels and meetings.
We also have the variable that you can still contract and spread the virus with a vaccine. yeah yeah I know peeps be saying that it is rare... but that isn't what this is about. Any time a person is infected, that is a chance for mutation vaccinated or not. Does not matter if the virus entered your nose for 5 min, an hour, or for 3 days. Whether you test positive for the virus or not.
Another is that not all countries have access to the vaccines, Not all people use the same type of vaccine. I mean, some vaccines are more effective than others and some countries have banned certain ones for safety concerns or they prefer to make and use their own created vaccine.
I feel like all of this plays a role on how the pandemic is, will be, and how long it will "last".
---added----
Oh I also forgot to link this for those interested. it is a variant tracker. https://www.axios.com/variants-tracker/
And I also wanted to mentioned the CDC noted that for unknown reasons, the vaccinated are getting a large collection of covid pathogens gathered in their throat and nose. Not saying the vaccines don't work or that people should avoid the vaccines, but it is just another point about variants... Actually this was what the Massachusetts case was about (Americans have mixed feelings about it) and what drove the US back into the Masks again. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
I agree with most of this. Covid is a global pandemic which means even if the anti-vaxxers in the U.S. and other developed countries change their minds, that alone won't solve the problem. Getting vaccines to people in poorer countries will probably help a lot more. I think countries with abundant vaccine supplies should give vaccine skeptics only a month or two more to get vaccinated and then ship most of their doses to countries with people who actually want to get the vaccine. Leave enough for children, but tell everyone else they are on their own if they wait too long. It's better than having vaccine doses go to waste waiting for anti-vaxxers to change their minds and maybe it will give vaccine hesitant people a sense of urgency to get it soon. I also think the booster shots are not a good policy because it's better long-term to use those doses to get more people worldwide their first and second doses than it is to give people third doses which may only provide marginally more protection than two doses.
American here!
I don't think it will ever "fully end"... but as a pandemic status?? Probably 2023-2024 would be my guess. Pfizer just had their vaccine fully approved which I think will help with the vaccination rate.. I mean, even I am more comfortable knowing it has full FDA approval. Does that mean if we have everyone vaccinated (btw I am highly against forced vaccination... and it absolutely goes against Medical Law and Ethics) the variants aren't just gonna "disappear". Fact is, Delta formed last year in India... so it really is totally unfair to blamed the unvaccinated for this variant. The vaccine wasn't even available during that time anyway. Practically during the shutdown, "each country developed their own variant".
I also find it highly unfair to blame the southern border for variants, as Delta reached the US before Lambda, and Gamma which first found themselves in Peru and Brazil. Delta I personally think came through the airports possibility through business/corporation travels and meetings.
We also have the variable that you can still contract and spread the virus with a vaccine. yeah yeah I know peeps be saying that it is rare... but that isn't what this is about. Any time a person is infected, that is a chance for mutation vaccinated or not. Does not matter if the virus entered your nose for 5 min, an hour, or for 3 days. Whether you test positive for the virus or not.
Another is that not all countries have access to the vaccines, Not all people use the same type of vaccine. I mean, some vaccines are more effective than others and some countries have banned certain ones for safety concerns or they prefer to make and use their own created vaccine.
I feel like all of this plays a role on how the pandemic is, will be, and how long it will "last".
---added----
Oh I also forgot to link this for those interested. it is a variant tracker. https://www.axios.com/variants-tracker/
And I also wanted to mentioned the CDC noted that for unknown reasons, the vaccinated are getting a large collection of covid pathogens gathered in their throat and nose. Not saying the vaccines don't work or that people should avoid the vaccines, but it is just another point about variants... Actually this was what the Massachusetts case was about (Americans have mixed feelings about it) and what drove the US back into the Masks again. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
People are blaming the unvaccinated for the current wave of the pandemic, not for creating the delta variant. Maybe some people are but from what I've seen it's people being frustrated at the fact that we are in a 3rd/4th/whatever number wave of this pandemic because people won't get vaccinated.
Yes, vaccinated people can get and can spread covid, even the delta variant. Nobody is saying that never happens. But it's far less likely that a vaccinated person is going to contract and spread covid, especially if said vaccinated person is only ever around other people who are also vaccinated. We run into issues with this when people go to work or go to school and have a large portion of the peers who are unvaccinated. Unvaccinated people who continue to go out to restaurants and movies and whatever else are more likely to contract covid and then bring it into the office or school, which is a big problem and can lead to schools needing to close and it alters how workplaces are able to run while their employees are out sick or at home during a mandatory quarantine phase due to the virus.
Furthermore it's unvaccinated people who run the far greater risk of getting sick enough to the point of hospitalization and even sicker to the point of needing ICU beds - which is when we see lockdowns implemented again as well as seeing surgeries being post-poned. Vaccinated people who get sick typically (not always though) have a better chance of being able to recover from the virus fully at home vs needing to seek out emergency medical help, which is another difference and a reason why the vaccine is important.
Personally, I don't think it's fair, reasonable, or realistic to expect every single person in a country––let alone on the entire globe––to get vaccinated. It's just not going to happen, no matter how much you want it to. Obviously, the main reasons being human nature and free will. That much should just be common sense.
With that said, people who aren't happy about those choosing not to get vaccinated because of their fear, caution, and/or belief(s) against the vaccine need to look at their own potential hypocrisy: Those who do choose to get vaccinated are often only doing so because of their own fear, caution, and belief(s) about the virus as well. So, regardless of what people choose or don't choose to do, it's still fear-based. And if that's the case, then everyone is selfish. Humans are self-driven/self-focused beings; even if you choose to do something for another person, you're still doing it because it makes you feel good to do so. So, you can't really take yourself out of anything. Otherwise, we're falling into virtue-signaling/cancel culture territory. And we know how toxic and gaslighting that can get. So, please, let's not go there...
Everyone is afraid for different reasons, and they're all valid. Warring each other about it isn't going to help; it's only going to create more needless division, fear, and all-around chaos. Therefore, you can't just blame the spread of the virus on unvaccinated individuals; many people who are threatened and pushed to do something are far less likely to comply. Calling people selfish, shaming them, and fear-mongering them especially isn't going to change that. You can only control and take responsibility for yourself and your own life, which is the most empowering and self-respecting thing you can do. As such, we need to allow others to control and take responsibility for themselves and their life as they choose also.
Long story short, I respect and understand anyone who chooses to get vaccinated, and I hold absolutely nothing against them. My own mother is getting vaccinated today, and I'm happy because it's her choice. So long as people use their free will to do what they please and don't force/impose their own free will upon others, then there should be peace. Fear and helplessness cause us to externalize our power and point fingers, which is the last thing we need to be doing. If you're vaccinated, then be happy that you're less likely to contract and spread the virus. If you're not vaccinated, then be happy that you're a healthy and sovereign individual who wants an alternative path. Either way, fear and anger will solve absolutely nothing.
Personally, I don't think it's fair, reasonable, or realistic to expect every single person in a country––let alone on the entire globe––to get vaccinated. It's just not going to happen, no matter how much you want it to. Obviously, the main reasons being human nature and free will. That much should just be common sense.
With that said, people who aren't happy about those choosing not to get vaccinated because of their fear, caution, and/or belief(s) against the vaccine need to look at their own potential hypocrisy: Those who do choose to get vaccinated are often only doing so because of their own fear, caution, and belief(s) about the virus as well. So, regardless of what people choose or don't choose to do, it's still fear-based. And if that's the case, then everyone is selfish. Humans are self-driven/self-focused beings; even if you choose to do something for another person, you're still doing it because it makes you feel good to do so. So, you can't really take yourself out of anything. Otherwise, we're falling into virtue-signaling/cancel culture territory. And we know how toxic and gaslighting that can get. So, please, let's not go there...
Everyone is afraid for different reasons, and they're all valid. Warring each other about it isn't going to help; it's only going to create more needless division, fear, and all-around chaos. Therefore, you can't just blame the spread of the virus on unvaccinated individuals; many people who are threatened and pushed to do something are far less likely to comply. Calling people selfish, shaming them, and fear-mongering them especially isn't going to change that. You can only control and take responsibility for yourself and your own life, which is the most empowering and self-respecting thing you can do. As such, we need to allow others to control and take responsibility for themselves and their life as they choose also.
Long story short, I respect and understand anyone who chooses to get vaccinated, and I hold absolutely nothing against them. My own mother is getting vaccinated today, and I'm happy because it's her choice. So long as people use their free will to do what they please and don't force/impose their own free will upon others, then there should be peace. Fear and helplessness cause us to externalize our power and point fingers, which is the last thing we need to be doing. If you're vaccinated, then be happy that you're less likely to contract and spread the virus. If you're not vaccinated, then be happy that you're a healthy and sovereign individual who wants an alternative path. Either way, fear and anger will solve absolutely nothing.
People who refuse to get vaccinated aren't necessarily being selfish, they are just horribly misinformed. Getting vaccinated isn't some selfless sacrifice. It's free, it helps protect yourself first and foremost, and a lot of cities, states, countries, and business are now giving money and prizes to people to get vaccinated. It's just all-around the smart thing to do.
As for vaccine mandates, biology doesn't care about human morals and ethics. Requiring people to get vaccinated is not ethical, but breaking that ethical barrier to stop a raging pandemic from killing millions of people every year and potentially getting much, much worse may be absolutely necessary if we want to live life as we used to know it. We can probably live with 10-20% of people refusing to get vaccinated, but if that number is at 30% or higher, then it becomes a problem for everyone. Unfortunately the misinformation around vaccines is a pandemic in itself. Before social media took off, if doctors recommended getting vaccinated, most people would follow their doctor's advice and get vaccinated for things like polio and measles. Now some random person can claim vaccines cause autism or infertility or some other condition without any scientific evidence and it just spreads like wildfire. When you have people who live in their own reality, they still affect actual reality. At some point, with problems such as covid and climate change, the denialists become an existential threat not just to themselves but to everyone else, and at that point the rest of us need to need to stop respecting their (provably incorrect) beliefs and opinions and tell them they need to snap back to reality.
I agree with most of this. Covid is a global pandemic which means even if the anti-vaxxers in the U.S. and other developed countries change their minds, that alone won't solve the problem. Getting vaccines to people in poorer countries will probably help a lot more. I think countries with abundant vaccine supplies should give vaccine skeptics only a month or two more to get vaccinated and then ship most of their doses to countries with people who actually want to get the vaccine. Leave enough for children, but tell everyone else they are on their own if they wait too long. It's better than having vaccine doses go to waste waiting for anti-vaxxers to change their minds and maybe it will give vaccine hesitant people a sense of urgency to get it soon. I also think the booster shots are not a good policy because it's better long-term to use those doses to get more people worldwide their first and second doses than it is to give people third doses which may only provide marginally more protection than two doses.
well the support of the boosters come from antibody numbers showing too low in those who were already vaccinated twice. But I agree it doesn't do all that much considering some of the variables I mention in my earlier comment. Such as Not all countries accept the same vaccines. Some want ones that are considered more effective, some want to avoid ones they feel are more risky for complications and maiming. Which leads me to, I completely agree with allowing those who want a vaccine to be able to get it.. but beyond the donations needed, the country has to also accept the vaccine handed out.
Perhaps you are using it as a general term, but just because people were waiting for full approval, more safety data, or simply waiting to hear something about their preexisting condition interacting with a new type of vaccine is not a reason to call them anti-vaxxers. For the USA anyway, the major reason given for vaccine hesitancy was the fact it didn't have full FDA approval yet. I think that is a fair stance and not unreasonable. I mean, this isn't a cult... it's health care with legitimate concerns. Or I hope..
In the US it isn't approved for children, but it is for teens... It is still being discussed for children and I would assume the main focus is figuring out the dosing and the risk for heart problems as a possible side effect. In the Current FDA packet that was released today... it expressed basically the younger you are, the higher the risk for a rare heart problem side effect showing up 7 days after injection....
whats unethical is allowing people to absolutely wreck the medical system bc people wont comply with social distancing, mask mandates, and vaccines. yes there are some people who cannot get vaccinated, its unethical to allow them to die bc people are still allowed to go everywhere coughing and sneezing with no masks. i am about to move (thankfully) but i have lived in florida for this entire pandemic and its absolutely absurd how people will pack into walmart coughing and sneezing with no masks. getting right up behind you even though it doesnt make the line move faster. whats unethical is people arent able to afford to live or receive medical care (if they can even get access) bc this pandemic has been handled so poorly and many jobs are unsafe due to a lack of enforcing social distancing and masks for customers. whats unethical is people with cancer unable to be admitted into the hospital to recieve necessary treatment. just saw a photo today of a child who was stuck suffering in the car in the hospital parking lot bc they werent admitting anyone. whats unethical is a 4 year old child not being able to get medical attention after breaking an arm so their parent had to set the bone and brace it themself (hopefully they did a good job and the arm will heal properly). whats unethical is people dying from a disease that could have been dealt with more seriously. more lives could be saved if we work together, but it seems like thats not what people want. i mean maybe some people could survive the wilderness all on their own, but im not one of them so id like to not have such a high risk to die from covid for just trying to contribute to society. to be fair though, i think people are misled by those in power who just want to secure their power and dont care about the health of people. i realize its not ethical to force people to do things but we cant have a functioning society if we dont set some rules to make sure society can continue. tbh though its hard to have a lot of empathy as ive heard people laugh at covid, laugh at the death, the precaution, and laugh at my desire to comply with masks, vaccines, and social distancing saying none of it matters or people die anyway or its all fake or a conspiracy or they just want to not think about it bc they want to enjoy life. i dont think covid will end but i really want healthcare to get back in control so that people can get all of the medical help theyve needed but had to postpone. i still have hope for it to become mostly inoculated but i dont think that will happen for 10s of years. im the only one of my family/loved ones thats vaccinated and cares about precaution (they all think im just anxious and suffering due to my own mind, wear masks around me for my sake) so im really upset by the state of things and how i might have to watch all my loved ones suffer horrible premature deaths bc they ignored modern medicine
