I'm not holding my breath waiting for a stampede of people to rush to get the Pfizer vaccine now that it has full FDA approval. Basically every credible doctor, public health expert, and elected official has advocated for people to get vaccinated. Some federal agency that many Americans don't even know about giving it the green light probably isn't going to move the needle much. The skeptics will just move the goalposts and make some other excuse so they don't have to admit they are getting their medical advice from Facebook or somewhere worse. How many more people have to die from covid and how many more people have to not die from getting vaccinated before the skeptics realize getting vaccinated is thousands of times safer?
The Delta variant and when you expect the COVID-19 pandemic to end
- Thread starter nintendofan85
- Start date
MiniPocketWorld
🌺🦥🌺
Assumption doesn't tend to look good when dealing with medical stuff and is usually attached to conspiracies. It is what the polls stated, the main reason given for vaccine hesitancy is the lack of full FDA approval. It hasn't even been 24 hours yet from the announcement and 3 days in a row last week had 1 million each day given out simply because of the announcement that supposedly the FDA will fully approve pfizer Monday.. and it did.
Midoriya
Go beyond! Plus ultra!
I agree with points both you and Red Cat mentioned (that fear and anger won't solve anything, and that people who aren't vaccinated are misinformed), but I also wanted to mention... this isn't entirely true. What about the people who choose to do something for someone else at their own expense? Because that person is in danger or needs help and if that person doesn't help them, no one else will. Can you still say this statement holds up in those sorts of scenarios? I'm not so sure... in fact, some people do things for others for no reason at all, but simply because it's what they believe is the right thing to do. We all have our own idea of what we believe justice is. That's why I won't call either side selfish, because this isn't a matter of being selfish. This is a matter of science. And science doesn't discriminate based on what we think.
nintendofan85
Good grief.
I want to chime in on this as not only am I the OP of this thread, but I have liked some posts here that some people might find a bit odd that I did as they might seem contradictory about this matter, but it's one that I think requires some nuance, something I try to do as much as possible.
I have mentioned-and MiniPocketWorld was right-that yes, the Delta variant originally started spreading in India due to a mutation in the original COVID-19 virus. Unvaccinated Americans aren't why the Delta variant came to the United States (though the Delta variant began to start spreading around here in the US right as the vaccines began being rolled out by the Biden administration). But, if anything, not even touching the scope of vaccines, with how the Delta variant spread, and spread so quickly in India, should be a warning sign about why it's so spread so much not just in India, the US, or any other country-at the time the Delta variant first began being tracked in India late last year, India was having ceremonies where people were almost all maskless and on top of that, we have to remember that India is a country with over a billion people and thus is very much densely populated. I also mentioned that the Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, is a right-wing populist, and unsurprisingly that has meant Modi has not taken lockdown or mask orders that seriously in India, which contributed to the Delta variant being so easy to spread in the country in late 2020 and early 2021. It's why, to this day, India also remains also one of the world's worst-hit countries by the pandemic.
The issue with unvaccinated Americans isn't the Delta variant forming, as yes, the Delta variant formed in India, not the United States. However, unvaccinated Americans, especially those who also refuse to wear masks as well, have been majorly responsible for the Delta variant's spread on US soil.
If more Americans had gotten vaccinated and worn masks since the Delta variant made its way to the United States, then there would not be another wave of cases.
Mentioning again how I'm an American here who was hoping to travel to Japan in early 2022 and now the virus is increasingly making that seem impossible and elusive to make happen-while Japan in large part has avoided much of the worst of the pandemic (although, and I think I mentioned this earlier, but Japan has had another wave of COVID-19 cases in recent weeks due to the Delta variant, and the Summer Olympics being held in Tokyo have been blamed for worsening the situation, even though ironically the Olympics had been praised for being held in a largely safe manner, and like I said, Japan's last two prime ministers, Shinzo Abe and Yoshihide Suga, have been heavily criticized by the Japanese public for their handling of the virus pandemic since it began early last year, and it's the reason why Suga's approval ratings are so low; the reason why Japan mainly managed to keep its case numbers down is because, like I mentioned, the Japanese already have a heavily-mask wearing society that really dates back to the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, and mask-wearing became even more common even just under normal circumstances in the last few decades, and also many Japanese people were willing to stay at home even without lockdown orders; like I mentioned, Japan never officially had a lockdown), if the situation remains bad here in the United States, especially as Japan has de facto (as someone else mentioned here, DJStarstryker) closed itself off from foreign tourists, then it will remain impossible for me for several months, if not unsurprisingly more than a year or so, for me to visit Japan. Now, of course, I must keep it clear that I would much rather sacrifice a trip to Japan if it meant myself and others remaining healthy. Don't get me wrong. But it's a shame that I may have to give this up for a long while, when I have a whole semester off between college and law school, to travel during a period of eight months that under normal circumstances would be an excellent time to travel abroad, and as I've wanted to go to Japan since I was a young child, it hurts to know that it may mean a couple of years or possibly more than that before I can actually visit the country given how even when the pandemic dies down, I will be busy with law school from 2022 to 2025. (I've even considered moving to Japan in the future, something I've thought on and off about since 2010, but I'd definitely at least want to visit Japan as a tourist before planning to make a move to the nation in the future) I wouldn't be the least surprised, for instance, if what happens in the near future is that Japan will allow certain nationalities to enter the country, but won't allow Americans simply because the virus situation here remains so bad.
TL;DR, basically the central point here is that fully vaccinated people like myself have to give up a lot just because of these selfish, entitled anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers.
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I'm sorry, but of all posts in my thread, this is the one I'm going to have to disagree with most, especially this section here. Yes, I'll admit that the virus has caused me more anxiety recently, and I'll be blunt, despite me being fully vaccinated, it might be the most anxious I've been the entire pandemic. (Probably mainly because this has dragged on so long) However, please know that I did not get my two shots of the Pfizer vaccine in May and June because I was afraid of this specific virus or any beliefs I have about it that are built on ignorance (it cannot be denied that many of the people who are against vaccines and masks here are ignorant, and they are pretty much all proudly anti-science). I got vaccinated in the spring because I did not want to get other people sick, even those who were not vaccinated at the time and may potentially never get the vaccine at all-I know I can still get an unvaccinated person sick, especially with the Delta variant going around, but I would at least think it would be less likely, especially as mask orders were relaxed earlier in the year nationwide in the United States, right around the time that the three vaccines-the Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson and Johnson-were all being rolled out.
Like I said earlier, and I've had similar behavior in past threads on TBT, I try to take a fairly nuanced position whenever I create a thread (or someone else does) about a debated topic, even if I may lean one way or another. I try to think like a "problem solver", for lack of a better term. But as much as I try to nuance things, I'm sorry Mad Aly, I simply cannot agree with you on saying that anyone who is getting vaccinated is doing so for selfish reasons, especially your claim that getting vaccinated is as equally selfish as choosing not to be. I was thinking about other people here in my decision to get vaccinated back two to three months ago, and I remain thinking that way knowing I'm due for a third dose of the Pfizer in February. It's better to be safe than sorry. I'd much rather think that I saved a life by getting vaccinated, even if it wasn't my own, than spreading it, especially the Delta variant, to another person and causing them to wind up in an intensive care unit and die. I'm sorry Mad Aly, but your way of thinking, I must say, is saying that it's selfish to not want people to die, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Lastly, before I conclude this, I just want to say that protection is not a fear-based, irrational decision. It's supposed to be a humbling and mature one.
I will agree with you that a lot are misinformed, yes, but I would have to say that their lack of concern about getting other people sick shows selfishness, as COVID-19 is a heavily contagious virus as it is, the Delta variant even more so.
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On this rant of yours, I want to say that that's what really inflames me about anti-vaxxers: there are people with legitimate health conditions that will never be able to get any of the three types of vaccines available in the United States, and yet those who are not getting vaccinated because of ignorance (what I think is a more apt term for "misinformation", as Red Cat mentioned, as clearly unreliable sources are being used by these people getting anti-vaccine pseudoscientific false information) or selfishness are putting the lives of the people unable to get vaccinated for health reasons in jeopardy. Some people can't even wear masks, either, for health-related reasons (wearing masks has actually worsened my asthma at points, but normally it's not serious enough to affect me), and these people who refuse to wear them as they see them as "oppressive" are endangering the health of those, too, as obviously two maskless people leads to the highest likely rate of transmission, and the Delta variant only emboldens the direness of the situation. Also, as you said, there are also numerous non-COVID related emergencies that are unable to be handled in the hospitals because of these anti-vax, anti-mask people. In the summer of last year, my aunt badly injured her foot. Fortunately, she didn't break any bones or anything, but she wanted to go to the hospital-but it was apparent that due to so many people being in it, typically in the ICU on ventilators, due to this virus, that was going to be an impossible task. She has healed since then, but my point still stands.
All of this is completely unnecessary and putting people who actually trust the science to, at best, never have their lives return to normal (which obviously isn't great as it is), and at worst, only have to suffer more without any choice.
On a last point about that, I almost delayed getting the second dose on June 1 because I had a flare-up in asthma symptoms, which I only found out for sure wasn't recommended as a good time for asthmatics for getting injected after my vaccination. Sure I could still get vaccinated anyway, but should people with asthma who have to postpone vaccination have to suffer because of anti-vaxxers? That's more of a rhetorical question, but please think.
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nintendofan85
Good grief.
This is the way I see it too. I wasn't even aware until the articles came out in the recent days that none of the vaccines for COVID-19 had full FDA approval (I'm honestly a bit surprised it took this long), and honestly, I won't lie, if I hadn't known that before getting vaccinated with the first dose of the Pfizer in mid-May, I would've had some hesitance about the vaccine. I'll be completely honest and upfront about that. (Obviously, in retrospect, I don't have any regrets, though) However, this segment on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver basically cleared up, long before anything up until now involving the FDA, about the lack of risks (and only benefits) from the vaccines. Not only does it touch upon right-wingers, but as we know, due to the unethical nature of the Tuskegee experiment of 1932-1972, many African Americans have had apprehensions about vaccines, which I find completely understandable-but Oliver was quick to point out that many black public figures have made it clear that the vaccine does no harm in the vast majority of cases.
(This is the segment from John Oliver's show I was referring to earlier, from May 3)
My point is (and I gather that this is yours as well) that I don't see the full approval from the FDA making many more people see it as beneficial than saw it as such three and a half to four months ago.
(This was initially in response to Midoriya before I later noticed nintendofan85's response, so I quoted him in after.)
I understand I made quite the bold statement there, so I appreciate your take on it. I didn't intend this to become a philosophical debate on what makes a person right/wrong or good/bad (assuming that being selfish is always a bad thing, which isn't necessarily true). This may just be a matter of semantics, but doing what one believes is the right thing to do still qualifies as doing something for your own best interests. In the case of things like getting vaccinated, that just so happens to include other people's best interests as well, or so we are led to believe. This would mean you're taking someone else's best interest as a part of your own best interest. You could say that's actually a very conscious and admirable thing to do, on top of it being a mutual benefit. So, does that make you selfish? Not by the standard definition, no. However, it's still a personal choice you're making, for whatever reason. Science and/or safety is simply the most common reason for many.
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TillyGoesMeow
sleepy bunny
You know what? Even if they’re misinformed, they’re still doing something terrible. I’m allowed to be upset that people decide to walk around without masks and could get my parents, who have respiratory issues, sick or worse. I honestly see no reason to defend people who do these things. There are so many people who are “misinformed” about a lot of things (racism, homophobia, transphobia) but that doesn’t mean it’s okay. Its completely unethical to no get vaccinated if you’re able to at this point in time. ESPECIALLY if you’re walking around, maskless. You’re a bad person. There’s proper information everywhere at this point, these people are grown adults. I’ve lived in the south my entire life, I KNOW a lot of people just don’t wanna do it because “it’s mah freedom.” This was shown from even wearing masks at the start! People didn’t want to do something so simple that could have saved so many people. That’s not misinformation, that’s just being selfish.
/rant
tldr; I don’t see a reason to defend people who are selfish or “misinformed” You’re a grown adult. Get a vaccine or go live in the woods & stop being a part of society.
/rant
tldr; I don’t see a reason to defend people who are selfish or “misinformed” You’re a grown adult. Get a vaccine or go live in the woods & stop being a part of society.
jefflomacy
Senior Member
Just remember that biology doesn't care about your human rights or any of this philosophical stuff. The fact remains that if we allow a peak to occur again with numbers like 150k a day (AKA, the peak that's happening right now), there is a reasonable probability that yet another variant could be created. There is no such thing as a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," because the variants that large COVID waves create are a risk to individuals who are vaccinated. I feel like a war is brewing, but the truth always wins, and you will get that shot. You will be terrorized until you comply. If you don't like it, you are free to not live around other people. Living around others gives you certain responsibilities, and that includes not participating in the creation of deadly disease.
Failure to comply means you will suffer indignities. Be afraid. Or just get the shot and save yourself the suffering. Because the ayes have it.
Failure to comply means you will suffer indignities. Be afraid. Or just get the shot and save yourself the suffering. Because the ayes have it.
MiniPocketWorld
🌺🦥🌺
Great to know between here and social media so many agree in unity about people who have legitimate concerns and health problems and advised by thier doctors to wait for full approval are baaaaddd people or just stupid and antivaxxers. The devil practically. You think most Americans are healthy? Most Americans know about the FDA because they have some sort of health problem. Oh and I guess doctors automatically become not creditable of they don't chant vaccines in your face.
There are a ton of people waiting for full FDA approval... The Biden Administration is celebrating.. the CDC is happy. But you know a bunch of people want to continue thier negative stance and act like everyone is the devil in a red workout suit. If I didn't know better I would have thought I entered a religious thread.
When you have concerns.. real concerns you aren't gonna just jump on it just because it was emergency use. Maybe if you are healthy or worship white coats, but not everyone is blessed with a functioning body and have faith in companies that had major lawsuits in the past and lost. There are worst things than death. There is such a thing as a more miserable existence. Sure some who have an issue got the vaccine as soon as it rolled out. But that doesn't negate nor lessen someone else waiting or following doctors advise on waiting because they also have an issue.
And I guarantee you there will still be some who will wait until the American Heart Association will say thier piece about certain heart conditions and the vaccine.
FDA full approval is a game changer... And more likely than not, they are going to start having mandates on it with paper checks. You'd think people would be happier.
Actually that was the only reason why I hopped on here beyond it being a major factor on how long the pandemic stays would last.. it opened up to more people and I'd hope to see people happy about entering the next phase the US has in mind.
There are a ton of people waiting for full FDA approval... The Biden Administration is celebrating.. the CDC is happy. But you know a bunch of people want to continue thier negative stance and act like everyone is the devil in a red workout suit. If I didn't know better I would have thought I entered a religious thread.
When you have concerns.. real concerns you aren't gonna just jump on it just because it was emergency use. Maybe if you are healthy or worship white coats, but not everyone is blessed with a functioning body and have faith in companies that had major lawsuits in the past and lost. There are worst things than death. There is such a thing as a more miserable existence. Sure some who have an issue got the vaccine as soon as it rolled out. But that doesn't negate nor lessen someone else waiting or following doctors advise on waiting because they also have an issue.
And I guarantee you there will still be some who will wait until the American Heart Association will say thier piece about certain heart conditions and the vaccine.
FDA full approval is a game changer... And more likely than not, they are going to start having mandates on it with paper checks. You'd think people would be happier.
Actually that was the only reason why I hopped on here beyond it being a major factor on how long the pandemic stays would last.. it opened up to more people and I'd hope to see people happy about entering the next phase the US has in mind.
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daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
literally haven't seen anyone say that people with health issues (which is one of the few reasons a doctor would tell you to wait for approval) are bad for not getting the vaccine. in fact, i've seen some people specifically preface that they don't think that just to avoid being accused of this.
as for having concerns, it's as my mom says: "either you die of covid, or you die of the vaccine." thing is, one's more likely to kill you than the other, and it isn't the vaccine. one also has a higher risk and chance of serious long-term medical issues than the other and, again, it's not the vaccine. if someone has serious concerns about the vaccine (a vaccine millions have taken by this point) then, surely, they must have serious concerns about covid itself too. pretty obvious which one you should take your chances with. and, sure, you could take your chances with neither. you could mask up, sanitize, socially distance and hope you don't contract the virus, but hope isn't a guarantee, and you have no control over whether or not you'll get it even in spite of your best efforts. hope isn't a cure or a shield, and it sure as hell isn't going to protect you.
like someone else in this thread said: the information is out there. it's not hard to assuage those concerns or read up on whatever is bothering you. if you can't be asked to do that (which is FREE, much like the vaccine) and continue to excuse not getting vaccinated with "i'm concerned" then, yes, you're selfish and, arguably, a bad person because you have the means and the opportunity to look into those concerns and actively choose not to.
also, the FDA argument really only works for america, and that's certainly not the only place with anti-vaxxers/maskers.
jefflomacy
Senior Member
Just quoting this for when you're wrong and vaccination rates don't significantly increase until we use force such as preventing people from visiting many private businesses without a vaccination. Have a nice day.
You have no idea how delusional these conservatives are. You will find out when the vaccine uptake is still poor after many more months. I'm sorry.
daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
also, something else about the FDA argument: even if 1 million people were vaccinated everyday following whatever announcement (would love to see the credible source you pulled that number from), there is no way to prove that each of those people (or even the majority) went and got vaccinated specifically because of the announcement. and even if it had been a reason, it might have not been the only one and therefore can't be labelled as the game changer you want to claim it is.
.: Meri :.
-love brought me some eternal petals-
Since I didn't specify this in my original post, I'd also like to say that my issue isn't with people who have health issues/at-risk groups/etc. who have been advised to wait by their doctors, or people with conditions that mean they actually can't get vaccinated. These people are very vulnerable in the current situation with the Delta variant, and those who can get vaccinated are supposed to do so in order to protect those who can't.
MiniPocketWorld
🌺🦥🌺
yeah the FDA argument really works for America... I mean that is what this thread is about No??
the risks on virus vs vaccine really depend on the person. Yes more often than not... the virus has a higher risk. But people with certain conditions.. the risk goes up on the vaccine because of their condition. This is why some people are hesitant. It is VAILD. Pfizer just got fully approved yesterday afterall.
What I have seen are people saying those who are WAITING or haven't yet are bad people. NVM the reason why people are. And that Americans are "too dumb" to know what the FDA is.
I'd advise speaking to your doctor than reading stuff online... I mean.. reading stuff online is what many claim got us "into the mess of hesitancy".
People can't have it both ways. There needs to be some consistency somewhere... unless people just want to sulk and be unhappy constantly.
At least the CDC and the Biden Administration know when to celebrate and recognize a game changer.
I'm backing off this thread.. current news is obviously not something people are wanting to acknowledge or be happy about and honestly.. this thread has turned more into an emotional rant thing about the vaccinated and unvaccinated rather than actual predictions and variables applying to the length of a pandemic status.
Oh and the over one million a day for three days in a row was announced by BIDEN himself on his political page. Just go look. That isn't why it should be labeled as a game changer.. the reason why the full approval is a game changer, beyond the people waiting for the news of full approval, is that it gives way for vaccinate mandates legally in the US through a pandemic status since it now has full approval. Something I am sure many upset people are ok with.
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daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
i'm not going to repeat myself esponding to this fully, so all i'll say is: the point was that anti-vaxxers exist worldwide whereas the FDA doesn't, ergo the argument that most people refusing the vaccine were waiting for FDA approval is moot. (personally, i'd wager most pepple were using it as a convenient excuse.) although it doesn't matter regardless given my other point about how you can't definitively say that it is why all (or most) of those 1 million people went and got vaccinated on those days.
next time, i'd appreciate it if you simply linked your source(s) instead of acting like i'm some sort of moron for not somehow knowing a) everything a different country's leader says and b) where someone else gets their info. thanks.
This, this, this, this.
“Ignorance” doesn’t give you a free pass to be selfish or hateful and it most certainly doesn’t give you a free pass to put other people’s lives at risk.
I’ve known homophobes who genuinely believe they’re doing the right thing. That they’re helping. Because all of us ~queers~ are misguided and need help. They twist their views to be from a place of, “I just want you to be okay! I just don’t want children seeing and getting confused and ending up on the wrong path too!” but does that make their views okay? No. Not even a little bit. It’s still wrong, it’s still hurtful/potential life threatening, and it’s frustrating as hell because they’re adults.
This isn’t 1814. You have access to the library, online resources, the ability to make doctors appointments - there’s no reason to hide behind ignorance at this point. It’s not ignorance it’s selfishness. It’s arrogance.
Not getting vaccinated if you’re able (ie: no I’m not frustrated with people who have medical exemptions, aren’t of age, or don’t have access) is selfish. It’s self serving and it’s frustrating because we are in a pandemic and your actions affect others.
If you choose to not get vaccinated but live in the woods, completely isolated from everyone? Fine, whatever I guess. But that’s not most people. Most people have the ability to spread covid and most people will rely on hospitals when they get sick.
I’m tired of people shrugging off where we’re at in the pandemic and saying, “well you’re vaccinated so you can just go back to normal!” People who are waiting on surgeries can’t just ~go back to normal~ when the ICUs filled so they’re post-poned again. Borders being closed, flights being impacted - I can’t go back to normal when I can’t go see my damn girlfriend. Is that a 100% selfish want? Yeah. I miss her. But other people are away from families, or needing to put studies on hold, missing out on work opportunities that won’t be there when this ends, because covid is rising again.
It’s selfish. It’s frustrating. I’m tired of bending to please the ignorant ****ing adults who won’t grow up and get a vaccine to save lives.
MiniPocketWorld
🌺🦥🌺
I am sorry you thought I was thinking you were acting like a moron and this is the main reason why I am replying. I don't think you are a moron and I don't want anyone thinking I think ill of them. I don't even know any of you and to make such a judgement simply isn't fair anyway. And I am not angry at anyone. Unfortunately Tone can't really be picked up on through typing much.
However what I was talking about is US. Unless I misunderstood the OP's focus on the US.
The Biden Administration is also the ones who said that the leading reason for people not getting vaccinated is that they are waiting for full FDA approval. It is them who set up the polls, under the guidance of the CDC of course.
That is USA population. The FDA is for the USA.
The Biden Administration is also the ones who seem to think that the 1 million for 3 days in a row last week was from the announcement of the full approval that came on Monday. Everything is on their political page. I mean I could just link their page, but you would have to still scroll it anyway.
For a global scale, it does encourage other countries to give full approval for the vaccines. Unless the media here in the USA is skewed regarding other countries (which is very possible)... for example I have seen headlines saying that Japan has authorized the vaccines for emergency use only. Well seeing another country take that step regardless if they are USA or not, (not trying to portray US as some standard or god at all) encourages countries to step up. But I agree it is a reach that is on the optimism side.
WaileaNoRei
Once and forever
Thank you so much for this response.
The last line is perfection. I hate this mentality that ‘all viewpoints are equally valid’ because, I’m sorry, but no, they are not. I think one of the most harmful things the media does is mistakenly present all issues as if they have to treat both sides of an issue as equally valid. All opinions are valid when the subject is a matter of opinion. If your opinion is that vaccines don’t work, or cause you to be magnetic, or cause autism, then that opinion is less valid - they are not valid at all, because they are fiction. If your opinion is that feeling good about helping people is the same as feeling good about not helping people, then I’m sorry, but no, I don’t think that is an opinion that deserves deference. It is nonsense - it is objectively better to help other people, regardless of whether you get personal satisfaction from it. I think this media approach has done a lot to create this sense that maybe the vaccine hesitancy and opposition is equally or at least nearly as reasonable as being in favor of vaccination. This misperception has allowed the anti vaxx movement to strengthen and thrive and hurt many more people than they should have.
so in that respect, I do feel many antivaxxers deserve pity, but they don’t deserve to have their opinions on medical science receive as much weight as doctors and scientists. There is a lot of free information, legitimate information out there, and people who truly value free thought should look it up rather than relying on misinformation.
And as for those who just see it as a freedom issue, I think they should remember that freedom comes inextricably with responsibility. If you can be free to not get vaccinated, then you should freely accept responsibility for any harm your decision causes, for the people who are justifiably or even unjustifiably angered at the pandemic dragging on and on, and for the people who will continue to die, when their deaths were almost entirely preventable. That’s not oppression, that’s how freedom works, it doesn’t mean freedom from consequences.
And everyone, spare some sympathy for those who are angry at antivaxxers. Many of us have lost a lot, struggled a lot, and our anger comes from a place of despair and exhaustion. We are not machines to provide endless emotional codling to those who have abandoned reason and science. Instead I hear antivaxxers demanding patience and compassion and sympathy again and again aat the same time as they repeatedly claim they don’t owe anything to anyone.
One last thing - it is so wrong to try and lump people who cannot for medical reasons be vaccinated in with people who are anti-vaxxers or duped by fake information. People who can’t be vaccinated are people who need herd immunity to protect them, and it is because of anti-vaxxers that we may never reach that, and that in fact the level of vaccination we need to reach for herd immunity has increased. I know people who can’t be vaccinated - they long to be able to protect themselves. Anti-vaxxers are not on their side, they are endangering them and making their situations more difficult.
daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
polls can be skewed because you don't know if every one of those 1 million people answered it, or what the questions were. (unless that's been released.) like i said, FDA approval could be a reason, but it might not be the only one. (here in the UK, we have to generally book our vaccine appointments in advance, so a good chunk of those people could've been down for a vaccine before the approval too if it's the same over there.) personally, i can't see them going down every vaccination line in every town in every state asking every person whether or not the FDA approval is why they're there.
as for other countries, i believe it's already been approved in the UK and that we approved it before the FDA. we still have anti-vaxxers hosting rallies and crap though. a group of them harassed people getting vaccines in a shopping centre at a pop-up clinic just the other day. you'll find in most cases, whether or not it's officially approved doesn't actually matter -- those refusing the vaccine (again, not those with medical reasons who can't) were just using it as a convenient excuse to go unvaccinated or delay the inevitable. you could say the FDA approval made people get vaccinated because now they're sure it's safe (not entirely sure what their approval changes after millions have already had it and lived to tell the tale, frankly) and i can say the FDA approval made people get vaccinated because now they don't have a leg to stand on, if it was the reason at all. thing is we don't know either way, but the continued existence of anti-vaxxers inside and outside of the US (and pre-covid) should be enough to tell you that the FDA approving the vaccine probably hasn't done much in and of itself.
nintendofan85
Good grief.
I'm sorry, but this exact sentence made me have to do a double take-what could be worse than oneself and other people dying? Remember that it's not only a person catching COVID-19 who might die, the people said individual spreads it to can also die from catching the illness. This technically means an unvaccinated, maskless person is responsible for putting others at risk, and their lives being on the line. This claim makes it seem like, for example, reckless driving (regardless if it was say, caused by alcohol or not) is okay because they are things worse than death. For one thing, not only may the driver driving recklessly kill themself, they are being a danger to other people on the road as well, both people in other vehicles and pedestrians. This is a criminal offense known as vehicular manslaughter. It's the same way with COVID-19-people who don't get vaccinated, don't wear masks, and don't follow other medical guidelines when they completely have the option to do so and aren't unable to get vaccinated or wear a mask due to health reasons are endangering other people too, not just themselves. Remember that you can be asymptomatic and still have COVID-19. It's an apt analogy to vehicular manslaughter because people are intentionally putting themselves and other people in danger.
I really don't like how I'm asking a question like this on TBT (even though this is yet another example of me providing a rhetorical question), and I never thought I'd be asking a question such as this on this site either after I joined way back in 2014, but should I really have to die because you don't want to get vaccinated? Is my suffering worth your decision and whatever risk you think there is to the three vaccines available? (I can understand people avoiding the Johnson and Johnson vaccine since there were reports of blood clots from it, and it did cause a death in Australia I remember, but the Pfizer and Moderna are completely safe)
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MiniPocketWorld, I know you said you're not returning to this thread, but I'm still replying just in case you read this in the future, and plus this discussion will still involve other people besides yourself. I combined both of these separate statements, by the way, from your post since they were the same and I wanted to address both, just in separate parts as I previously stated.
Yes, this thread is about the United States. However, it does not have to be purely about the United States. Like I said, I wanted to travel to Japan after all, and the Delta variant makes it really seem like traveling to Japan in the first half of 2022 would be near-impossible. Also, like I said, other countries such as the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand (not to even mention Japan itself too, seemingly having been worsened by the decision to go ahead and hold the Summer Olympics in Tokyo, even though they got delayed by a year) are also have spikes from the Delta variant, so plenty of non-Americans have reason to worry about the Delta variant as well, even if they never set foot on US soil during the pandemic. I'm sorry, but if there's anything this pandemic has taught me, it's that we can't have a US-centric mindset like so many other Americans do, something I was guilty of having for some time, and this is why I reject the idea of "American exceptionalism". COVID-19 proved American exceptionalism is a myth.
I also wanted to add, since you said that this thread is all about emotional ranting: I'm sorry, but the person who seems to be coming off to me as the most emotional of everyone here is you. Now I cannot blame others who see similarly to the way I do as being emotionally charged about this pandemic and the ongoing political issues surrounding it, almost entirely in Western countries. However, rationality, facts, and news have pretty much all been well-cited by everyone else, and like others have already stated, I'm sorry MiniPocketWorld, you have not provided any sources at all for your claims (when I have already done so), especially as the recent months and years (given how anti-vaxxers existed even before the COVID-19 pandemic) have proven that anti-vax sentiments did not exist solely because of a lack of FDA approval for the three vaccines against COVID, and that these attitudes will disappear just because the FDA recently did so. I'm glad the president I proudly voted for is excited about the FDA approval, but I'm not even sure Joe Biden or others working in his administration think that this will change these types of attitudes among the American people that much.
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