The Official Feedback Thread

[Xara]

I don't think I have another big post in me right now, but I can't read what I just read and not say something.

@Oblivia, I am so, so sorry. I cannot express enough how sorry I am to you, and to every other staff member who has received any messages that are even 5% of how revolting and despicable that one message is. I sincerely thank you for sharing it with us. I can imagine how hesitant you were to do so, but it's important. That kind of behaviour is inexcusable and unacceptable; just thinking something like that is despicable, but to then type it out and send it?? Absolutely no one deserves that for any reason.

I know a lot of us are frustrated with staff, and honestly each other, right now, but regardless of the stances we've each taken and the opinions we've each shared (or haven't shared), we all have one thing in common - we care about TBT. We want this community to thrive and for this to be a safe space, for regular members and staff. So many of us have taken the time and effort to write such thoughtful posts, and even if you haven't, even if you've only been discussing things in private or are just trying to keep up with this thread, none of us would be doing that if we didn't care. We're not having these discussions because they're fun or we're bored or we have nothing better to do and just want to argue for the sake of arguing or nitpicking, we all want genuine and productive change to come from all this, and for the better. And messages like the one Oblivia received absolutely do not reflect that.

There is reason to believe that message potentially came from a banned user or one of their friends (not seliph or anyone associated with him) based on the way they spoke on here prior to their ban and the things they're currently posting on Twitter/X and Substack. That absolutely doesn't make it okay in the slightest, but I'd like to believe that message and the others haven't come from anyone currently active in this community, let alone anyone actively engaging in this thread. In the event that the individual who sent that message is reading this thread, with as much respect as I can muster: please get off the internet and seek therapy.

I can't speak for anyone else. I can't speak for my friends, for staff, or for anyone else, nor do I want to. I can only speak for myself. Please, please believe me when I tell you that I do not want harm to come to any of you. Even if I don't agree with you, even if we've never spoken a word to each other before, I do not want harm to come to any of you, regular members and staff members alike. I want you all to be well and to be safe, and none of you deserve to be treated like that or receive messages like that.

I know some of you have the opinion that some of the things that've been said in this thread have been rude, aggressive, of a mob-like mentality, etc. My contributions to this thread have been minimal, but if anything I've said has come across in that way, I am sorry. I did my absolute best to word my posts gracefully and respectfully, but I know some frustration probably leaked through - because I am frustrated. We all are.

When/if ever this all is resolved, some of us may never speak to each other again, because despite being in the same community and sharing the same space, our paths have never really crossed before. That isn't true for me. I have friends and people I love and care about on all sides, and I hate that I have to word it like that because there shouldn't be sides when we all want the same thing. I don't agree with every single thing that every single person has said. Please believe me when I tell you that none of us are attempting to create some sort of witch hunt or mob. I haven't spent hours writing my now 4 posts in here because it's fun, and nobody else has written their posts because it's fun. Every single one of my friends are affected by this, and we don't all share the same opinions, and I'm not confident that I'll still have all my friends at the end of this and that terrifies me. Putting myself out here like this is terrifying.

But, regardless of the opinions you have, regardless of if you agree with everything someone has said in this thread or the way they've said it, please know that it all comes from the same place - we all care about this community, and our friends, and the people who aren't our friends, and we want this place and our peers to do well and be safe and fair.

Please take care of yourselves.

 

[-Apples-]

So when will the next staff response be posted? I want to see updates on if the offender has been caught. Also, is the Contact Us feature going to be disabled because of what just happened?

 

[Millysaurusrexjr]

I am shocked and appalled at that message.. That is just not right. Oblivia, and rest of staff, I hope you are doing okay. Please take care of yourselves

 

[Aerith]

I want to say that I am so, so sorry someone would send you such a vile message, Oblivia. You didn't deserve that.

I completely understand why you didn’t share it right away. That kind of message is terrifying, disgusting, and violating. Please do whatever you need to feel safe right now. You don’t owe anyone an explanation for how you cope or protect yourself.

And to whoever sent that message:
You're a coward, and if you think it's funny to traumatize someone, you need serious help.

[edited to just DM instead]

 

[-Raven-]

Whoever is harassing the staff: loser behaviour, grow up.

Obviously me posting here isn’t going to stop harassment, but I wanted to drop in. I don’t have a lot to say and I feel bad since my critical posts were so much longer, but since I posted a bunch before, I feel I should say something. It’s just one post but I would like to think the solidarity I’m seeing from skimming here matters, it was an underlying current I loved on this forum, I think that the solidarity on certain topics in this site is part of why so many people care about it.

That message is the kind of thing I would have been absolutely ashamed to see people doing- that I am ashamed to hear about- and I just want to say I’m sorry to any staff experiencing threats of any level. I really don’t have much to offer and I feel like I’m just virtue signalling, but for what it’s worth, as someone who has been vocal on this thread before: threatening the staff is just an awful thing to do and while I ultimately want to move on, I decided to pop in and offer a little solidarity on that.

To the staff: you should absolutely never get this harassment, regardless of what happened, or what you did, or even if you had only gotten “minor” threats (even if they can be “part of the job”), it’s simply not okay. Completely unproductive and disrespectful, I can’t say much else.

 

[GreenTeaHarbor1297]

I do want to drop in and say one thing.
If you or anyone you know is receiving violent threats or doxxing blackmail, then if you can, never feel afraid to report them to the authorities. If you live in the US, you can report any of them here. There should also be likewise equivalents in other countries if you happen to live in one - https://www.usa.gov/report-crime

 

[Holla]

-snip-

You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I feel. I’ve remained quiet up until this point as I too try not to get involved in politics and the like. Your post has inspired me to finally say a little something.

The main thing I want to add is that all of us as a whole community need to do better. Yes, the staff have made mistakes and bad decisions but so have many of us as regular members. We are all in this mess together and we need to come together to make things right. No it won’t be easy and no it won’t happen overnight. I’ve also been a member here for nearly 12 years and most of that time I’ve loved it here. Only a fraction of that time I’ve been actively into Animal Crossing but the unique community we have here has always kept me around. Has it always been perfect? Of course not, but I truly love this community as a whole so I really hope we are able to work together and make things right.

I really do love you guys (both staff and members alike) though this whole situation breaks my heart.

 

[LadyDestani]

I was planning to make another update tonight, but I've let the time slip away from me. It's late so for now I'll just say that we truly appreciate the support and kindness you all have expressed in regard to the message Oblivia shared. I hope that spirit of unification and concern for each other's welfare can carry us forward to make TBT better and safer for all of us. To echo @/Holla, this is breaking my heart as well.

P.S. I will try to have my next post ready by tomorrow night.

 

[Paperboy012305]

That's a very devastating to happen. I don't know who or what caused this hate message to happen, but it is considered inhumane and punishment worthy, not by TBT standards, but lawfulness as well.

If anything, I think TBT should close for a few weeks to upper TBT's security to prevent things like this from happening.

 

[LambdaDelta]

have I posted my idea of just giving banned members a limited permissions board/thread to make their case in already? because if not, why not do something like that and disable the contact us feature?

 

[-Apples-]

Has any additional threatening e-mails been sent since we’ve been brought attention? I hope this didn’t happen.

 

[oath2order]

have I posted my idea of just giving banned members a limited permissions board/thread to make their case in already? because if not, why not do something like that and disable the contact us feature?

That's a really good idea.

 

[LadyDestani]

have I posted my idea of just giving banned members a limited permissions board/thread to make their case in already? because if not, why not do something like that and disable the contact us feature?

I'm curious what this looks like in your mind. Would it be similar to the Contact the Staff board where banned members could communicate freely with staff members? That's what I'm picturing, but I also know people don't like CTS much more than Contact Us. So if you'd care to share more details, I'm interested in hearing about it.

 

[-Apples-]

have I posted my idea of just giving banned members a limited permissions board/thread to make their case in already? because if not, why not do something like that and disable the contact us feature?

My problem with that is that those who have been permanently banned for making death threats towards other members (which includes wishing for death upon others) or promoting hatred or bigotry might try to get back on the forums through that method.

 

[toxapex]

My problem with that is that those who have been permanently banned for making death threats towards other members (which includes wishing for death upon others) or promoting hatred or bigotry might try to get back on the forums through that method.

That is a fair concern... I guess as with any appeal process, certain cases would (or should) be a pretty clear "no", which I assume would encompass death threats, clear/intentional hate speech, and the like.
Of course, it would come down to the judgement of the staff what constitutes an automatic "no" and if there is any issue with that judgement I guess users would make that known here or privately with staff members.
I think the idea of using this board for banned members rather than an email contact is to prevent untraceable harassment like the message that targeted Oblivia (and I haven't said it yet but very sorry to hear about that, I hope Oblivia is doing ok). So while it would be just as open to bad actors who were banned (maybe even less so?), it would create more accountability for what you're saying to the staff after being banned

 

[LambdaDelta]

I'm curious what this looks like in your mind. Would it be similar to the Contact the Staff board where banned members could communicate freely with staff members? That's what I'm picturing, but I also know people don't like CTS much more than Contact Us. So if you'd care to share more details, I'm interested in hearing about it.

contact the staff board is the closest example, though with these additional differences

can't make threads (staff would set up a thread for them. either singular, or one per banning
can't use bbcode
can't upload files

I think this covers it. I do feel like I'm missing something more, but I think it may just be my feeling off just messing with me



also, idk, but is it possible to set locking/unlocking threads on a timer? (ex: lock a thread and make it automatically unlock one week later?) because that could work great here too, imo, if an "appeal" gets too nasty and staff want to force the member to chill out for a bit. mostly asking just for a means of staff not having to keep in mind to unlock

 

[-Apples-]

Any more news about the threat? Has the offender been brought to justice?

I wish I can call out who I speculate is behind all this, but I don’t want to get in trouble. But I do know that the one user responsible for it has been permanently banned for more than a year by now. Even if she didn’t send the threat, she’s still responsible for it and should face the same punishment the person mailing the threats could face.

 

[Plainbluetees]

I know I am late to the party, but I just now read through most of the 900-something posts. In the past couple of years I've only ever really been around the basement and occasionally Brewster's cafe so it took me a while to realize this thread even exists and I am honestly disappointed in myself for not realizing sooner.

I found the screenshot that I believe has been referenced before. It said, and I directly quote,
"I've gone to bed with people who are ~10 years younger."
"The girl I'm currently seeing is five years younger than me, comes across younger than that, and it's part of her charm."
The fact that this person is not only still on the forum but is a moderator still disgusts me. It is in my opinion that the Bell Tree Forums are not the place to discuss how you like younger women. I don't appreciate the fact that this person who made this comment has seemingly faced zero repercussions. This seems to have been an ongoing discussion, yet there seems to still be no rule that prohibits sexual discussions; all that is prohibited is actual material.
There are children here.
That is unacceptable.

I cannot share this forum with users - much less moderators - who share their sexual opinions, especially when they are about desiring for a younger significant other. I know women who have had issues with older men taking advantage of them; namely, my mother.
Someone being less mature or more like a kid should not make them more charming. That is a disgusting thing to say on an Animal Crossing forum.
Maybe I will come back if this user is not here or is removed from their position. I do not feel comfortable on a forum that has a leader who makes comments like these and faces zero repercussions. That's all.
Goodbye, Bell Tree.

Edit: please do not reply to this post if you are only going to say something about age-gap relationships. I do not want to hear it. It is my personal opinion that what this user said about them specifically, when in consideration of their own age, is unacceptable.

 

[LadyDestani]

Hi all,

Several of you have spoken up to say that one of my earlier posts where I discussed neurodivergence and controversial content is incorrect, offensive, and ablist. I would like to thank you for pointing this out to me. I apologize for implying in any way that someone who is neurodivergent, mentally ill, or has hidden disabilities should not face consequences for their actions or that they're unable to understand right from wrong when it comes to hateful and prejudiced statements. That was not my intent, but that's how it read. I'm terribly sorry.

I should have been quicker to apologize and address this. I wanted to respond right away once it was pointed out, but I didn't because I was afraid. I was scared that in trying to correct my mistake I was only going to make things worse. I admit that neurodiversity is not an area I have a lot of experience in, so I let my fear get the better of me and kept silent.

However, after it was brought up again in a more recent post, I really felt a need to make things right. I've done some more research on the subject and I hope that I can now properly convey what I intended to say. If I fail again, I trust you to point that out to me.

---

First of all, let me be clear. There is no excuse for homophobia, transphobia, racism, or any other form of prejudice ever. Nobody should be given a free pass for making hateful comments regardless of their circumstances. Blatant discrimination will be met with warnings and bans as deemed necessary. The distinction I failed to make before is only in regards to more subtle and nuanced forms of discrimination. I acknowledge these are just as hurtful as blatant discrimination, but they are often unintentional and it may take time for people to fully understand why what they said or did is wrong. These are the situations, especially when it comes to those who struggle with complex social interactions, where staff might be more lenient and focus on trying to educate the person versus warning them.

Some examples of subtle discrimination are microaggressions and rationalizing discriminatory actions. These types of discrimination will still be against the rules, but they might be dealt with differently.

One thing we have not yet discussed on the staff team is support or enjoyment of problematic properties. This would include things like the Harry Potter universe, which was previously mentioned in this thread. And it's this point where I specifically had neurodivergence in mind when I wrote my prior post. I can recall at least one instance where I witnessed a neurodivergent individual being told they needed to abandon their special interest because it was harmful or because the creator was problematic. They became quite obviously distressed and could not link the negative association with the franchise they loved, at least not in that moment.

These are the types of decisions we need to balance to provide an equally safe environment for all. I'd love to hear from you all if you have any comments or suggestions related to this.

 

[sleepey]

I acknowledge these are just as hurtful as blatant discrimination, but they are often unintentional and it may take time for people to fully understand why what they said or did is wrong. These are the situations, especially when it comes to those who struggle with complex social interactions, where staff might be more lenient and focus on trying to educate the person versus warning them.

Some examples of subtle discrimination are microaggressions and rationalizing discriminatory actions. These types of discrimination will still be against the rules, but they might be dealt with differently.

Yes! Neurodiversity supports autistic (and otherwise neurodivergent) people who have infinite combinations of intellectual, developmental, and learning disabilities. And it just so happens that, for them, forums are one of the safer and more accessible forms of social contact!

I can’t say what justly dealing with these offenses looks like, but I think the key point you made here is that they are still considered discriminatory, thus against the rules. What I’m hearing from the community is that the first priority of a moderator should be to remove the harmful content.