The Official Feedback Thread

[-Mars-]

Aye y'all should delete this thread

EDIT: Sorry Gabby I've misunderstood your sentiment

 

[-Apples-]

This may sound impatient, but the slow responses are making us nervous, especially when crucial information is needed.

As for the cooldown period, I think two hours is good. Not four, but two.

 

[nightglow]

Here's an actionable suggestion that could actually further this whole thing:

Jeremy, how about you make a suggestion here about how the overhauled rules could look? Keeping in mind the things that members have discussed and suggested.

Or would you like the members to make a suggestion instead?

It would be so damn nice to actually get to that point. Multiple members have mentioned it already.

Aye y'all should delete this thread

I can understand as this thread is a cesspool, however there are members who actually want this thread to get productive, and a recent good post (above) was finally made again.

Can you guys stop trolling for once

Im just gonna be blunt, if you posted you wanted this thread to stay open and someone replied with " can you guys stop trolling for once" I'm sure you wouldnt like it. Gabby is entitled to thier opinion for whatever reasons they feel is valid. I doubt Gabby is trolling.

--

Now, here is some rules from another forum that can be edited/changed to fit this forum however the staff feels, and if course members. Think of it as a skeleton template to work with. It is an attempted start on this process of actually getting to a productive spot in this official feedback thread. Obviously there isn't any limit on how many rules tbt can have. And as stated before, I am not going to reply to members about my own posts. And again, it would be nice to hear from Jeremy personally about at least acknowledging receiving my departure letter, please. And again I am sorry if that sounds impatient.

Trolling
Posting messages intended to cause a negative reaction from other users is not permitted on TBT. This includes topics and messages that deliberately provoke other users by being inflammatory, irrelevant, misleading, offensive, or disruptive.

Offensive Material
Posting offensive content is not permitted on TBT. This includes linking to or posting content containing sexually explicit material, promoting the sexualization of minors, explicitly promoting terrorism or hate speech, and images or video of real-world violence.

Hornyposting
TBT prohibits the posting of sexually explicit or excessively lewd content, commonly referred to as "hornyposting". This includes but is not limited to explicit descriptions or discussions of sexual acts, images or videos containing nudity or explicit content, objectification, and solicitation of sexual encounters. Users are expected to maintain a respectful and appropriate atmosphere in all discussions and interactions on the site.

Abusive Behavior
Abuse and harassment of any kind are not permitted on TBT. This includes insults or other personal attacks involving any person's race, creed, color, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, age, height, weight, physical or mental ability, veteran status, military obligations, and marital status.

Transphobia
TBT does not tolerate transphobia in any form. This includes derogatory comments, misgendering, or any other behavior that undermines the dignity and identity of transgender individuals. Users are expected to respect all gender identities and expressions.

 

[oath2order]

It would be so damn nice to actually get to that point. Multiple members have mentioned it already.

I can understand as this thread is a cesspool, however there are members who actually want this thread to get productive, and a recent good post (above) was finally made again.

Im just gonna be blunt, if you posted you wanted this thread to stay open and someone replied with " can you guys stop trolling for once" I'm sure you wouldnt like it. Gabby is entitled to thier opinion for whatever reasons they feel is valid. I doubt Gabby is trolling.

--

Now, here is some rules from another forum that can be edited/changed to fit this forum however the staff feels, and if course members. Think of it as a skeleton template to work with. It is an attempted start on this process of actually getting to a productive spot in this official feedback thread. Obviously there isn't any limit on how many rules tbt can have. And as stated before, I am not going to reply to members about my own posts. And again, it would be nice to hear from Jeremy personally about at least acknowledging receiving my departure letter, please. And again I am sorry if that sounds impatient.

Trolling
Posting messages intended to cause a negative reaction from other users is not permitted on TBT. This includes topics and messages that deliberately provoke other users by being inflammatory, irrelevant, misleading, offensive, or disruptive.

Offensive Material
Posting offensive content is not permitted on TBT. This includes linking to or posting content containing sexually explicit material, promoting the sexualization of minors, explicitly promoting terrorism or hate speech, and images or video of real-world violence.

Hornyposting
TBT prohibits the posting of sexually explicit or excessively lewd content, commonly referred to as "hornyposting". This includes but is not limited to explicit descriptions or discussions of sexual acts, images or videos containing nudity or explicit content, objectification, and solicitation of sexual encounters. Users are expected to maintain a respectful and appropriate atmosphere in all discussions and interactions on the site.

Abusive Behavior
Abuse and harassment of any kind are not permitted on TBT. This includes insults or other personal attacks involving any person's race, creed, color, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, age, height, weight, physical or mental ability, veteran status, military obligations, and marital status.

Transphobia
TBT does not tolerate transphobia in any form. This includes derogatory comments, misgendering, or any other behavior that undermines the dignity and identity of transgender individuals. Users are expected to respect all gender identities and expressions.

Why the separate section for transphobia as opposed to merging it into abusive behavior, especially with gender expression specifically showing up in both?

 

[S.J.]

I care deeply about the success of this community. I have had a lot of positive interactions, received a lot of kindness, and created a lot of memories with users and staff alike. I know there is a great deal of hurt for users who feel passionately about issues within the community, for the staff receiving criticism, as well as for those who do not wish, or who are too afraid, to get involved. I care greatly for the reconciliation of The Bell Tree community.

Across the original ‘opinions’ thread, and this thread, there are nearly 1,000 individual posts. I have done my best to capture as much information as I can within a short time-frame, as concisely as possible. I may have missed an item you raised, and if so, please let me know if you would like me to add it to the table below.

The purpose of this table is not to express my own opinions. I generated this table with a desire to understand the issues being raised, and how they could be addressed. I found it helpful, and hence I share it in case someone else may as well.​

Category	Item	Summary of item raised	Proposed actions
Feedback and Communication	Desire for open feedback channels	A desire for a dedicated, public, unrestricted space to offer feedback, both during and outside events.	Actions taken: · An official feedback thread was established for public feedback. Other means of providing feedback clarified: CTS, the report function, DM to mod/admin team, and the Contact Us form · A cooldown period for posting was implemented in the feedback thread to reduce disagreements, and increase the constructiveness of each post Further actions that could be considered: · Determine whether ‘unrestricted’ feedback is feasible · Identify processes for giving and moderating feedback: handling disagreements, identifying staff by name, identifying users by name, etc. · Feasibility of each feedback method. I.e., staff acknowledgement of CTS threads, feasibility that a staff member can field feedback from a user/what is done if they are unable to do so
Feedback and Communication	Staff responsiveness	Reports and CTS messages go unanswered, making users feel ignored.	Users would benefit from an acknowledgement function in CTS threads: E.g. a reaction or message acknowledging the thread has been seen.
Feedback and Communication	Staff responsiveness	Claims staff are dismissive of feedback.
Feedback and Communication	Transparency in moderation	Some users want better insight into moderation decisions and outcomes.
Feedback and Communication	User language	Some users feel other users in the feedback thread are communicating ineffectively (e.g. aggressive, dismissive, etc.).
Events	Fairness of frequent winners	Some users feel their contributions are unrecognised when there are frequent repeat winners.	Actions already taken: · Expanding the types of activities and categories offered (e.g. a mixture of puzzles, art, craft, cooking, raffles, mirrors, games, etc.) Other considerations: · Non-competitive participation events (e.g. the journalling event) · Submission/participation prizes · Random-drawing/lottery methods
Events	Inclusivity in event design	Art-based or high-effort event tasks exclude some users.
Events	Lack of transparency in event management	Claims of bias or a lack of transparency in judging.
Events	Event reactions	Concerns over the number of event reactions/a desire for a limit.	It was proposed to limit event reactions to only some boards.
Events	Fear of missing out	Users feel that they need to participate in all tasks for maximum currency.
User Interface and Accessibility	Collectibles management	Collectible inventories are difficult to manage, particularly across multiple pages.
User Interface and Accessibility	Site themes	Users suggest having options for seasonal themes (southern hemisphere option) and dark themes for accessibility.	Current blocks: · Financial resources · Time commitment
User Interface and Accessibility	Time zones	Users misinterpret event timings due to lack of time zone conversion.
User Interface and Accessibility	Ad layouts	Ads interfering with readability of the website.	Actions taken: Ads were tweaked. Issue resolved?
Community Interactions	Reaction features	Some users are made uncomfortable by the hug reaction.	It was proposed to change the wording/image to reflect support.
Community Interactions	“Vague-posting”	Concerns about subtle references to other members.
Community Interactions	Respecting boundaries	Requests for no replies/reacts are sometimes ignored.	Actions taken: Staff have addressed that such requests won’t be enforced. Other considerations: Update/formalization of rules.
Community Interactions	Reactions	Community members both for and against a laugh reaction.
Safety and Inclusivity	Safeguarding child members	Concerns around photo sharing, and 13+ content.	Actions taken: Age-based guidelines/restrictions were implemented regarding photo-sharing. Requires users reporting content for it to be reviewed and removed. Actions for consideration: Updating the rules surrounding the definition of “sexual material” and clear guidelines on content.
Safety and Inclusivity	Block/Ignore	Request for increased controls in blocking other users
Safety and Inclusivity	Ability to hide content	Request for the ability to hide threads/boards. E.g. the feedback thread.
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Staff behaviour and calls for resignation	Some staff behaviour has caused concern and mistrust, with users calling for certain staff to step down.	Actions taken: One staff member has taken a hiatus. Staff responses provided for at least some items raised (candy van, sexual references posted by a staff member, public argument with staff member, misunderstanding regarding a staff comment) Actions for consideration:
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Disciplinary procedures	A lack of clarity on disciplinary procedures. I.e. For dishonesty during events, for the circumstances of a user’s ban	It has been requested for clarity on the recent ban. Reassess and update current rules for increased clarity in the future.
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Inconsistency in the application of rules	Some users feel rules have been applied inconsistently between users, and/or between users and staff	Reassess and update rules so that they are clearer and more thoroughly defined for both users and staff.
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Communication from users	Some users feel they are being unfairly moderated, censored, or policed through their language.
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Removal and deletion of posts	Some users are concerned with staff deleting and removing posts from users and themselves.
Staff Conduct and Accountability	Rules and guidelines	Request for overhaul of rules and guidelines, for both users and staff

Please note that I have only pulled information from this thread, and not the ‘opinions’ thread (though I’d like to do so), so not included in this table are things like the collectible market and the use of generative AI.

I would like to reiterate that the table above is not a reflection of my personal opinions and is, to the best of my ability, intended to be a summary of the items and issues raised in the feedback thread, generated to help me understand the concerns raised for myself and where actions might be taken to better accommodate the community, as well as where there may be gaps in proposed actions to take.

We are all human individuals, and I believe that most of us are acting in good faith, and care about the community of which we are a part. As the community evolves, and as we make mistakes within the community, we continue to learn and grow, much like we do in our lives outside of TBT. We will continue to make mistakes as we encounter new situations, but I do believe we can foster a safe and understanding community.

 

[Jeremy]

Here's an actionable suggestion that could actually further this whole thing:

Jeremy, how about you make a suggestion here about how the overhauled rules could look? Keeping in mind the things that members have discussed and suggested.

Or would you like the members to make a suggestion instead?

We have been discussing a general update of the rules for a few months now, but it will be some time before this comes to fruition, especially because so much of our attention is currently dedicated to this thread. At the same time, this thread is being used to hear from the community about the rules they would like to see clarified, so taking time isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Where we are headed could be a space on the forum that spans multiple pages with specific examples, but we're still thinking about how this might look.

If you meant specifically about the recent topic being discussed, we could consider using a survey to help get a better idea about members' specific thoughts. It has been a bit difficult to gauge opinions after things got so heated here, and even a bit confusing to see some people ask for rules that would ban their own content. I imagine my post may not have been clear about what we currently allow/disallow here. I.e., we do not allow 18+ content. It's been a while since we used surveys, so this could be beneficial in general.

It would be so damn nice to actually get to that point. Multiple members have mentioned it already.

I can understand as this thread is a cesspool, however there are members who actually want this thread to get productive, and a recent good post (above) was finally made again.

Im just gonna be blunt, if you posted you wanted this thread to stay open and someone replied with " can you guys stop trolling for once" I'm sure you wouldnt like it. Gabby is entitled to thier opinion for whatever reasons they feel is valid. I doubt Gabby is trolling.

--

Now, here is some rules from another forum that can be edited/changed to fit this forum however the staff feels, and if course members. Think of it as a skeleton template to work with. It is an attempted start on this process of actually getting to a productive spot in this official feedback thread. Obviously there isn't any limit on how many rules tbt can have. And as stated before, I am not going to reply to members about my own posts. And again, it would be nice to hear from Jeremy personally about at least acknowledging receiving my departure letter, please. And again I am sorry if that sounds impatient.

Trolling
Posting messages intended to cause a negative reaction from other users is not permitted on TBT. This includes topics and messages that deliberately provoke other users by being inflammatory, irrelevant, misleading, offensive, or disruptive.

Offensive Material
Posting offensive content is not permitted on TBT. This includes linking to or posting content containing sexually explicit material, promoting the sexualization of minors, explicitly promoting terrorism or hate speech, and images or video of real-world violence.

Hornyposting
TBT prohibits the posting of sexually explicit or excessively lewd content, commonly referred to as "hornyposting". This includes but is not limited to explicit descriptions or discussions of sexual acts, images or videos containing nudity or explicit content, objectification, and solicitation of sexual encounters. Users are expected to maintain a respectful and appropriate atmosphere in all discussions and interactions on the site.

Abusive Behavior
Abuse and harassment of any kind are not permitted on TBT. This includes insults or other personal attacks involving any person's race, creed, color, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, age, height, weight, physical or mental ability, veteran status, military obligations, and marital status.

Transphobia
TBT does not tolerate transphobia in any form. This includes derogatory comments, misgendering, or any other behavior that undermines the dignity and identity of transgender individuals. Users are expected to respect all gender identities and expressions.

I did see your email come in the other day and plan to reply eventually, though I hope you'll understand that it could be some time before I get to it.

Regarding your example of rules, all of these currently apply to TBT. I see some of them are more specific than our written rules, and that is one of our goals as I mentioned above, though probably not worded or structured in exactly this same way.

 

[Gabby]

Im just gonna be blunt, if you posted you wanted this thread to stay open and someone replied with " can you guys stop trolling for once" I'm sure you wouldnt like it. Gabby is entitled to thier opinion for whatever reasons they feel is valid. I doubt Gabby is trolling.

I appreciate you saying that. Posting time limits didn't allow me to respond. I get that when I post on here I tend to be a bit of a Goofy Guy (I've been here since I was 9 years old, and largely, TBT is a meme to me. #SorryNotSorry) but like also this site is special to me in a nostalgic sort of way. It's actually wild to see the discussion and the community get so up in arms. By my evaluation, no one on here is giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is assuming every one else is a hateful person.

Also, my feedback was legit. Have you seen the last 10 pages? Gabby and Co (rip Fazz_Bear420) can't have a silly little troll every once in a while (irrelevant to my srs feedback in this thread) but y'all can duke it out in debates over what sexual content is? I legit feel the priorities of the Bell Tree Forums are a little weird. Members can't joke around and make silly posts every once in a while but we can be Totally Serious All the Time and Fight Over Crap That Doesn't Need to Be Fought About with like, no repercussions.

It's like it's a rule that you're not allowed to have fun and not having fun is encouraged on this site.

 

[daringred_]

Please don't take what I said out of context. The point (among five others) was that this forum is not a special case. As you said, this is a separate forum where we set our own rules, often based on community feedback, which is why I stated, "we're completely open to changing the rule, and this can easily be communicated in this thread without making accusations." I have plainly stated here that we are not ignoring feedback and taking it seriously. Furthermore, it's important to hear how members would specifically like to see that work here, especially considering that some have made these types of references themselves.

with the little semblance of respect i have left: i'm not taking anything out of context. you're the one who brought up smogon, then passive aggressively told aurita (and by extension the rest of us) to go over there and search the site to see that they don't enforce their rules or whatever. (not that this site does either apparently.) so which is it? are we comparing, or is this a separate entity as i said, in which case bringing up smogon as a gotcha to show how it could be worse is entirely unnecessary. there's a difference between claiming you're taking feedback seriously and us seeing any actual evidence of that. for one thing, many of us have expressed that the post cooldown is too long, feedback You asked for, but as far as i know it's still four hours. either mods should abide by the same timer, or they need to stop replying instantly after days of silence knowing we now can't counter them for hours -- in my case, the cooldown expired while i was asleep lmao and now this is delayed as hell.

 

[Saylor]

Im glad you mentioned this, because it's something that I had to learn the hard way. I have a lot of issues and I struggle a lot, so naturally I also vent a lot. and what I've come to understand—it was actually seliph who taught me this lesson, believe it or not—is that some things should not be made public. it only takes a moment to look at a post you've written and think, is this appropriate for a public Animal Crossing forum? in my case, I kind of feel like a lot of my issues are way too personal for this place. I am now limiting my venting to my journal and private Discord chats. there are some things that should not be in the public eye.

I dont have any more time to respond right now as I have to leave for work soon, but I want to say that I am so sorry for everyone affected, including seliph. and I am also sorry if anything I said about this thread came across as ignorant or rude. I see you all, and I seek to understand. I have many amazing friends here and I want to make sure you are all okay. and also, I have been an active member here for nine years, and my participation in this discussion is because I love this forum and I would hate to see it crumble any more. i also refuse to stick my head in the sand and be oblivious to whats happening here. I will be keeping my eye on this thread.

if there is anything I said that is wrong, please let me know. I'm just doing my best with what I've seen/read so far.

Hey Bug, I just wanted to say I really respect this. Personally speaking it was a bit frustrating to read some of the earlier posts in this thread that felt dismissive or ignorant, so it's nice to see someone come in here with an apology and a desire to understand people's concerns.

nor is it necessary. those posts serve as a reminder of what not to do. let's not repeat history here. I do understand if a post is incredibly offensive, then yeah maybe delete it. but you do not want people forgetting what happened, and you want to make sure people understand what happened and the consequences of those posts. because deleting a post/comment has a tendency to remove accountability.
(and honestly, in this sense, it's really in the staff's favour because they have the ability to edit/delete all forum posts, which seems unfair to me)

I hope you don't mind me using the rest of your post as a segue for some other feedback, but this was one of the things that's come up since the thread was unlocked that I also wanted to talk about. Part of me understands wanting to keep problematic posts visible... I like to know whether someone is bigoted or shady and seeing those types of posts helps me determine who I can feel safe around. With that said though, I do think old problematic posts should be deleted if staff or someone else comes across them. Almost all the content on the forum is available to anyone regardless of whether they're signed in or not, and if they happen to stumble upon something inappropriate they might get the impression that that sort of thing is accepted on here and either decide to leave as a result of that or make an account thinking they're in a place where their bigotry would be accepted. We also have an entire event dedicated to scrounging the forums in the egg hunt, and I don't think people should have to be exposed to transphobia or racism (to give examples) in doing so. By no means do I think staff should try to undertake a review of all the posts over the last 20 years to try to delete anything questionable, that sounds impossible, but in my opinion they should be deleted if brought to staff's attention. In terms of deleting staff posts, I think if it's for something that breaks one of the more serious rules (discrimination, sexual material, harassment, etc.) it should be reported to the rest of staff instead of that staff member deleting it themselves, and there should be public acknowledgement of what happened.

I also wanted to say that I think it's absolutely unacceptable for reports about issues as serious as a member harassing others to be left unanswered for months. I understand staff need time to discuss things and certain information can't be shared to the affected individual(s), but there needs to be acknowledgement that something is being done asap and as much of an explanation as can reasonably be provided after action is taken. I also understand staff is busy, have a ton on their plate especially right now, and have lives outside of the forum, but I think if a member of this site is coming to you and sharing such concerning information, that needs to be a priority.

On a similar note, I completely agree with Jacob that there should be some sort of indication if a staff member is inactivate/on hiatus from the site. I don't know if this suggestion goes a bit too far, but I also kind of feel like moderators should have their online status available. As it is now I have no idea which staff members are actually active or whether there's anyone around on invisible when it appears there's no staff online. I don't think it's necessary to know when the project staff is online at all times (at least not when there aren't any events going on), and I'm sure the admins deal with a lot of back-end stuff, but I feel like it'd be useful to know when a moderator is online if there's an urgent issue or if everyone's kinda sitting around wondering when a thread is gonna get locked after spiraling out of control. It just feels like overall the staff seems kind of... detached and unavailable.

Regarding the age appropriateness of the site I think everyone's already said how I'm feeling--I think it should be safe and appropriate for kids as young as 13 even though many of us are older--but I think the code of conduct Aurita posted from Smogon's website has some things I'd like to see better worked into the rules here. In particular, I think the rules here should be more explicit in disallowing the elicitation of sexual interactions. There's a history of grooming and sexual harassment happening on this site--and even still today--and although I realize adding it to the rules isn't enough to put a stop to predation that could occur here, I think reinforcing that creepy behavior won't be tolerated is a small step toward making the website feel safer.

Lastly, I want to reiterate that I think seliph's ban has got to be overturned. In the ban extension message he received, a couple of the factors listed in the decision were the fact that staff received multiple messages from people who felt uncomfortable posting in this thread due to the fear they'll be harassed, and the belief that his posts often initiate a dog-piling effect. I think it's completely unfair to use this as even a small factor into the ban decision considering others clearly aren't held to the same standard. There are people active on this forum who have been reported for sexual harassment and/or repeated instances of bigotry, who make people feel genuinely unsafe, and they're still welcomed here. Justifications for the ban were given based on how seliph might make others feel if they were to post their thoughts, or how he might incite others to pile on to a certain viewpoint. Why is more consideration being given to these possibilities than to the repeated reports of unquestionably inappropriate behavior by others?

To sum up actionable feedback,
-I think problematic posts should be deleted when brought to the attention of staff regardless of how old they are
-Staff should not delete their own serious rule-breaking posts
-All CTS threads or reports (barring minor things like reported spam or someone posting in the wrong section) should receive some sort of response
-Staff availability should be more easily accessible--we should know which staff members are on hiatus and have more of an idea which moderators are currently online
-Rules should be revised to address grooming/sexual harassment
-Seliph has already been banned for over a month and I think that's plenty

 

[Lancelot]

I appreciate you saying that. Posting time limits didn't allow me to respond. I get that when I post on here I tend to be a bit of a Goofy Guy (I've been here since I was 9 years old, and largely, TBT is a meme to me. #SorryNotSorry) but like also this site is special to me in a nostalgic sort of way. It's actually wild to see the discussion and the community get so up in arms. By my evaluation, no one on here is giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is assuming every one else is a hateful person.

Also, my feedback was legit. Have you seen the last 10 pages? Gabby and Co (rip Fazz_Bear420) can't have a silly little troll every once in a while (irrelevant to my srs feedback in this thread) but y'all can duke it out in debates over what sexual content is? I legit feel the priorities of the Bell Tree Forums are a little weird. Members can't joke around and make silly posts every once in a while but we can be Totally Serious All the Time and Fight Over Crap That Doesn't Need to Be Fought About with like, no repercussions.

It's like it's a rule that you're not allowed to have fun and not having fun is encouraged on this site.

edit: I misunderstood this, I agree with Gabby

 

[nightglow]

I did see your email come in the other day and plan to reply eventually, though I hope you'll understand that it could be some time before I get to it.

Regarding your example of rules, all of these currently apply to TBT. I see some of them are more specific than our written rules, and that is one of our goals as I mentioned above, though probably not worded or structured in exactly this same way.

Thank you. I really appreciate it! Yes, I figured it would take some time, understandably, to reply to it. I just wanted to make sure it didn't glitch into the matrix and was actually received, because if missing, then I need to retype it out and resend it.

Yes, as far as I can tell TBT already covers these example rules that are from another forum site, however I figured it was a good skeleton to work with for description and details. A few have suggested being more detailed and better (descriptive/clarify?, not saying TBT's wording is inferior, ) worded rules being drafted/created. It's an attempted start to get started somewhere. And of course whatever is drafted up doesn't have to be a copy paste (though there isn't anything wrong e with copying and pasting this and tweaking it some, cities and counties where I live do this all the time with ordinances) nor does it have to take the format that the other forum did in this snippet, if part of it feels repetitive. Sometimes a little repetitiveness may give assurance or may express seriousness due to a repetitive problem in the forum. That is the forum's choice, and lack of a little repetitiveness doesn't mean no assurance or seriousness either. Due to how heated TBT is right now, I'm not sure that doing the little repetitiveness thing/ideal? is a good idea this round, but I wanted to share my thoughts on that since it was kinda touched on by a member earlier, and it does highlight a tool in the tool box that can be used when writing up rules/guides/policies literally anywhere in life. Hopefully that makes sense.
But anywho, again thank you, sincerely.

 

[tazmily menace]

reading through this thread has made me feel genuinely sick
i thought this place would be fine but i don't think i trust the mod team anymore
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh /vneg

 

[lasagne_of_death]

gonna be real with you: I don't think this is legally binding here. both from a tbt presumably follows us jurisdiction law angle and from a personal data angle, of which I personally don't think many courts would rule in favor of here. for individual identifying info such as real name, location, etc, perhaps, but not as a blanket purge-the-whole-account-thing

that said, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but simply personal observations based on my own limited understanding of things. so if there's anyone actually practiced in law that wants to chime in, feel free. though my initial reaction is this feels very much faux-legallese, of which I'd rather people be at least aware of the possibility of

I appreciate you pointing this out, since I also do not know jurisdiction or rules TBT falls under/has to follow. Tbh the reason I mentioned it in my post was for that clarification to be given by staff team, so it would be clear to members looking to have an account deletion and just in general what they're actually entitled to and what is just site policy

 

[Flyffel]

We have been discussing a general update of the rules for a few months now, but it will be some time before this comes to fruition, especially because so much of our attention is currently dedicated to this thread. At the same time, this thread is being used to hear from the community about the rules they would like to see clarified, so taking time isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Where we are headed could be a space on the forum that spans multiple pages with specific examples, but we're still thinking about how this might look.

If you meant specifically about the recent topic being discussed, we could consider using a survey to help get a better idea about members' specific thoughts. It has been a bit difficult to gauge opinions after things got so heated here, and even a bit confusing to see some people ask for rules that would ban their own content. I imagine my post may not have been clear about what we currently allow/disallow here. I.e., we do not allow 18+ content. It's been a while since we used surveys, so this could be beneficial in general.

Thank you for replying.

I understand that overhauling the rules takes time, especially if many points are being reconsidered among staff and everyone on staff should be heared to ensure a democratic process.

Since these issues started from disconnects between staff and regular members, I suggest opening the democratic process of overhauling the rules to properly including the members in it.

That doesn't mean (necessarily), that writing the rules should be left to the members or that the members would have the final word on the rules. (After all, this is the site of the admins and they can do what they want with it.) Of course, in order to restore a satisfied community, members' opinions should be considered though.

I would suggest opening a new thread, where you post a suggestion for a new ruleset. (It should be a separate discussion that is focused on refining rules only, this thread stays open for feedback.) Please do not worry about presenting a polished product! This ruleset can be a total WIP. Do not worry if not everyone on staff has approved it! After all, it is expected to change, and all of staff will have enough time to offer their opinions on the matters in the process.

Jeremy, it is enough that you keep in mind what has been discussed so far among staff and in this thread, and you yourself write a draft of how the new rules could look. There is no need to overthink it, I'm sure that you can do a satisfactory job in about an hour. If you forget some points, that is totally ok, they can and surely will be brought up in discussion.

I don't want to sound like I'm pressuring you to do this asap or without discussing it with other staff, Jeremy. I think that it's reasonable to ask a quick "does that suggestion sound reasonable" amongst staff. (I think that such a discussion should take 48 hours max as it's a simple yes/no question.)

By opening the process up, at the very least the following things will be achieved:

• The community gets a chance to feel truly heared
• The community can see that progress is being made as opposed to if this happened behind "closed curtains"
• This can lessen general member frustration, since time passing with no visible progress is very frustrating for many members
• The process is possibly sped up as there are more people who can work on it (e.g. providing examples)
• The new rules get a chance to align with the community and staff values alike, as a version is crafted in which as many members as possible are comfortable with
• The scenario that a new ruleset is presented after months of work and the community is dissatisfied with the new ruleset is certainly avoided

Thank you for considering this. I think that it's awesome that staff is now so open to feedback.

One more thing. The concern that members are scared to speak up because of retaliation by staff or other members has been brought up in this thread a few times. In order to ensure that this cannot happen in the process of crafting the new rules, the new thread could be paired with anonymous surveys (as you suggested yourself) as an additional gauge of opinion. With the surveys we can ensure that the new rule suggestions truly align with the majority of the community.

 

[Aerith]

I have been biding my time to make a full post because I wanted to have more information, and because the task became overwhelming as more topics were added. This thread moves fast for me, as someone who thinks and types slowly. Many of my opinions are late, but I didn’t want my words to go to waste, even if they might be repetitive. There are still some topics I could address, but this post is going to be long as-is; I may address them in the future.

I imagine most people will find something they agree with and something they disagree with. I don’t have any grand expectations of changing people’s minds, but I do hope my reasoning is understood, and that my words are received in good faith. I tried to reread both threads before posting this, but I make mistakes, so feel free to correct my information via DM's (or in replies, but it might be easier to DM with the 4hr CD). I also will censor certain names on the off chance this post could be removed.

Spoiler: Age Gaps

First, I recognize this has very little to do with feedback until the end, and that others have made great points already regarding this, but it was really gnawing at me to say my piece. I urge anyone who assumes adult age-gap relationships are harmless, just because they're legal, to think more critically. While this absolutely can affect young men, it's most often a dynamic between older men and younger women/AFAB people. These relationships frequently involve manipulation, with the older party specifically seeking out the younger because they’re more impressionable and less likely to question things. At 18-21, most young adults don’t have the experience to be able to recognize manipulation or how to set boundaries (I believe someone already mentioned the frequent compliment of, “You’re so mature for your age!”). What agency they have in the relationship is chipped away, and they start to tolerate worse and worse behavior because they have been groomed to do so.

Grooming is sinister because it doesn’t start with obvious abuse. It begins with trust and affection and overtime shifts into emotional, financial, and/or psychological control. Predators will often target vulnerable people: those with low self-esteem, those stuck in unhealthy/abusive living situations, and those who have little to no support system. They love-bomb the victim or offer financial security, only to later isolate their partner and create dependence. This is a manipulation tactic and a power dynamic that lasts long after the age gap reaches an “acceptable” range; the older partner makes the decisions and gets away with horrible behavior they shouldn't, while the younger feels lucky just to have them, because they were “saved” by them. The relationship never truly reaches equal ground.

Yes, there are always exceptions, but basing your opinion on rare outliers is neither an informed nor a responsible take.

I think it’s important to take an anti-grooming stance and I support it being added to the rules, although I’m not sure it would be able to cover adult age gap relationships.

Spoiler: Re: Betsy

I don’t know why the clarifications from Betsy were taken as a confession to something heinous. As far as I understood Betsy's argument, she was not saying she thought of sexual identity as sexual content. She said that it could be considered that. Could in this instance doesn't mean "I believe this", it means, "someone could believe this, and if that person is a staff member, then discussions of sexual identity could be banned,” and she reiterated that she doesn’t support that.

To go from

“Some people think this way”

to

“Literally no one is thinking this, to even infer that people could think this, is evidence of your homophobia”

is jumping to conclusions and isn’t fair IMO. I hope no one here thinks that. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a legitimate worry of Betsy’s.

I can only understand the frustration from this exchange, if people were trying to correct Betsy’s information by saying, “no staff member thinks sexual content and sexual identity are the same, thus it is not an issue in the first place", and Betsy kept claiming it was still a possibility – THEN that would just be arguing for the sake of arguing, and your frustration makes sense. I would recommend disengaging from any person doing this when it reaches that point.

But even if that’s what occurred, I STILL wouldn’t immediately jump to the conclusion that she’s homophobic. That is a serious accusation. One can point out harmful views without sharing them. I understand not assuming good faith after previous disagreements, but in this instance, it feels as though people were looking for an opportunity to find something truly evil, so that they could disregard her as a person. I don’t want to think that, because there’s many of you whom I respect and like. I hope that it was just anger over the whole situation that caused a misinterpretation of what she was saying.

Spoiler: Sexual Content on TBT

I'll preface this by saying, it's no great consequence to me whether TBT outright bans suggestive content, and I do not support explicit sexual content. As my post history will attest to, I don't typically talk about that sort of thing here. The rules lean closer towards family-friendly than PG-13, so I keep my colorful humor and speech outside of the site. I treat my public posts like how Blue mentioned in their post - things I would say in the company of strangers.

However, I really don't think there's anything wrong with thinking suggestive humor is OK. It already happens on the forum (and during Jackbox games), and I haven't seen complaints about it. Suggestive humor isn't anything worse than what a 13 year old has already heard in school. They put it in kids’ movies, lol. Not to put members I like on blast, but stuff happens in the basement all the time that is risqué. One member was playfully annoying people by posting cursed images of frequently meme’d Pokemon (Typlosion, Vaporeon, Lucario, etc). The Pokémon art they were posting wasn’t sexualized, but if you know, you know. I think that this would be against the rules in a G-rated forum.

With what I gathered from Jeremy’s original post, I got the impression that the staff would prefer the site to remain PG-13. I get it, because I grew up on forums, and the rules were significantly less strict. Back when I moderated a Harvest Moon forum as a teen and young adult, we had a zero-tolerance policy for sexual content outside of one specific subforum - The Back Room. It was the only place politics, religion, and "tame" discussions of sex could exist (the forum never allowed explicit depictions of sex, it was more for discussions such as ‘would you/did you wait to have sex until marriage’). There was this understanding that, if you were underage, you were choosing to sit at the adults' table and you were going to be treated accordingly, since there was no way to validate age and prevent minors from joining. It was also hidden from non-members.

These days, it’s difficult to justify a place like that. Forums aren’t the proto-social media they used to be, where you got to know people solely through the forum. It makes sense that people were curious about others’ deeper thoughts back then. Now, when you want to know someone more intimately (in a platonic sense), you’ll get each other’s Discords or another messaging app and chat there.

It's standard for fandom discords to either ban NSFW content entirely or restrict the NSFW channel for those who verify they are 18+. People are right that kids can still lie, but there really isn’t much more you can do with the current state of things.

TBT needs to decide what it wants to be, because toeing the line is not something easily achieved in this age.

Spoiler: The Staff Member Who Probably Shouldn’t Be Named Even Though It’s Obvious By Now (TSMWPSBNETIOBN, for short!)

I don’t think it was inappropriate for The Staff Member Who Probably Shouldn’t Be Named Even Though It’s Obvious By Now (TSMWPSBNETIOBN) to come back and address the misunderstandings. I feel like it would’ve been more damning not to say anything. Anyone in that position would’ve struggled to prevent themselves from clarifying with accusations that heavy. Despite this, I have a lot of criticisms towards TSMWPSBNETIOBN, and I hope that their hiatus is legitimate.

To me, TSMWPSBNETIOBN’s post was inappropriate for the forum, although I can understand why some users, including TSMWPSBNETIOBN, thought it was okay to post, considering the choice content that has been allowed here over the years. However, like I said in a previous post, staff members must be held to a higher standard than others. Awesome that the staff agrees, but I don’t understand why the consequence is so light. The hiatus isn’t a punishment – that’s something they need to do for themselves regardless. Does every staff member get 1 free get-out-of-demotion card?

I am not cool with TSMWPSBNETIOBN’s numerous expressions of toxic masculinity, which make them unfit for a position that influences how others think, especially with impressionable minors around. As someone who has been in LGBT+ spaces since she was a young teen, I get the reasoning behind this behavior, but it is not appropriate coming from a staff member, no matter where you are in your identity journey. I’m glad that they recognize this behavior as problematic, at least.

Using TBT like a diary was a mistake - and it really does feel like that’s what they were doing - because from mine and others’ observations, they were content to talk about their day-to-day, while ignoring legitimate concerns. Maybe this helped their overall mental health, but it comes across as self-absorbed. Observing this made me assume one of three things was true:

“This person is arrogant and thinks they’re untouchable,”

“This person doesn’t actually care about their impact or the community itself”, and,

“This person is deeply insecure/anxious/not in a good mental headspace and has no business being in a leadership position.”

I’m not even the victim, and it hurt to witness this. TSMWPSBNETIOBN’s wording in the edited post about age gaps felt passive-aggressive to me, like, “I’m only doing this because I have to,” and with how long it took them to address the Valentine’s incident, how do we know the regret comes from a sincere place? I completely understand the staff wanting to protect their friend due to their shared history. But they have admitted to struggling to emotionally connect with this incident, so how are they going to do their job when so many forum issues require diplomacy and empathy?

If you think a hiatus is enough of a punishment for these repeated instances of misconduct, please explain why you feel that way. I don’t think the staff have to be perfect – I certainly wasn’t when I was a mod/admin elsewhere. But, whether you agree with them or not, you have an audience of people who don’t trust this person.

I don't know what happens behind the scenes, but there has got to be some kind of system to deal with staff violations. You’re a team, and you’ve been through a lot together, but it’s important for you to hold each other accountable. When I was forum staff, mods and admins could still receive warnings for breaking the rules, though members were not aware of this. I personally liked how smogon took the time to explain how a user can report staff abuse of power, and that no one was above facing consequences.

Spoiler: Staff’s Slow Responses

I believe LadyDestani mentioned earlier that staff wanted to make a post detailing the staff discussion process, so that members might understand why it takes so long to come up with a response. IMO, this should have been one of the first posts you made.

I hope this is acceptable staff criticism because I need to name these members to get my point across. The last time Thunder was credited for an event, for an item that wasn’t made years prior, was Halloween 2021 (and even then, I’m not sure if that’s an old item or not). Their only posts for the past couple years have been sporadic and not anything to do with being moderator.

It’s my understanding that Project Staff isn’t expected to take an active, day-to-day moderating role and just work on events, but years of inactivity is wild. I make that assumption because I rarely see them involved outside of events (which makes me sad, I would love to see fellow birb enthusiast Nefarious more often!!!) But dizzy bone hasn’t posted in almost a year, and they’re a mod.

Rotating responsibilities is essential to easing the burden of leadership. Only a handful of staff seem consistently active, leaving them to shoulder the weight of major issues alone. That’s an unfair burden, and I can only imagine how discouraging it must feel. Gradually addressing concerns on a weekly basis, even if a singular topic needs to be divided into parts, would build trust more than huge updates that take weeks.

If the inactive staff members are working behind the scenes, that’s great, but from a regular member’s perspective, it feels like certain staff don’t want to be a part of the community at all. This is the only forum I’ve been on where I genuinely don’t know who half the team is, whereas other forums, I could jot down a small summary of their personality. If moderation is delayed because every decision requires input from mostly inactive members, then that structure is actively harming TBT.

I want to believe in the team, but the lack of transparency is a problem. I agree with Jacob that staff members who are inactive should have some indicator conveying this. We need more open communication.

Leadership is stressful and requires the ability to navigate negativity and take things in stride. So, if frustration with your members leads to resentment or defensiveness, you must address that anger within yourself before you make public statements. Otherwise, you risk undermining the integrity of the entire team and the community’s trust.

Spoiler: Suggestion - Community Liaisons

This role would be especially helpful if TBT moves toward a more G or PG-rated forum, but it could still benefit the community as-is. My idea is for a position, possibly with limited moderation capabilities, focused on member wellbeing. Community Liaisons could help flag or remove problematic content, mediate disputes, and potentially reach out to individuals the community has concerns about. They could also serve as a safe place to vent concerns instead of going through CTS or the Feedback thread.

These can be picked by the staff, but I think they should be approved by the community, kind of like how we vote to retain judges in elections. That way, both parties have someone in power that they trust. Given the sensitive nature of the role, a review of their post history would be crucial to ensure they’re a good fit and aren’t a risk to the community itself.

Even with a role like this, the entire community needs to stay vigilant, especially when it comes to protecting minors. It’s important to do this while retaining some form of distance – predators can and do pose as protectors to purposefully get minors close to them, claiming that they're "a safe space" when they’re the furthest from it)

Spoiler: Several Other Points

• I'm not sure there’s a purpose in keeping up threads like that sex thread or discriminatory comments. If you think of the forums as an archive, or you want to keep rule-breaking posts up as a warning, these posts should at least have a disclaimer from a mod to indicate that these comments are no longer allowed, or why they break the rules.
  
  
• The rules need a better explanation of what gives warnings, what gives bans, and how many warnings escalate into a ban. I understand that this can be on a case-by-case basis, but I still think this could be communicated better.
  
  
• Additionally, I want to bring up another case of inconsistent ruling on sexual content that also serves as an example of unnecessarily slow staff response. There was a member last year who creatively entered a wardrobe event for TBT’s anniversary by making their character wear a “birthday suit”. A lot of people found the user’s cleverness funny. I would not have barred my 13+ nieces from seeing this, because the game itself depicts artistic nudity in furniture, and it was just silly. This user didn’t get told their submission was rejected until it was too late to create another one, and as a result, they missed out on a really fun event. If staff had been more proactive and consistent, this wouldn’t have happened.
  
  
• I agree with daringred that The Banned User's (TBU) posts in the Backdrops thread were unnecessarily aggressive. TBU is passionate about matters of justice, but at times their language can come across as dismissive of differing viewpoints. That's why I posted when I did, because I felt like many people (not just TBU) were being unfair to the non-Americans who were fine with or even liked the puzzle piece. I understand why it’s abhorred in North America, but it requires nuance when considering the global community.
  This, I assume, is what Jeremy’s comment about dog-piling occurring when TBU speaks, was referring to. TBU is considered by many to be someone they look up to, who tries to do the right thing. This can make more impressionable members go, "Oh! TBU is against this? Then I have to be, too, or I'm a bad person." It's tough to have different opinions from your friends or community members you admire.
  Still, it’s a hard sell to say this is TBU’s fault, unless they pressured people on an individual basis. I also feel like whatever warning they had before their last should have indicated that a year ban would be on the table if they broke the rules again.
  Edited for clarity: I have no experience with the incidents between TBU and Jeremy, which is why I used vague words like "I assume". I thought something similar to Jeremy's dog piling comment occurred in the thread, but not from TBU's doing. I do not think TBU caused dog piling in that thread. I think some anti-puzzle-piecers (lol) went too hard to try and shut down discussion, because they wanted to do what they thought was the right thing, which is why I used it as a segue to explain, "this might be why Jeremy mentioned dog piling if this has occurred whenever TBU says something." I did not communicate this clearly and I understand why this came across as blaming TBU, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. As for why I mentioned this in the first place: my mind zeroes in on holes in communication and feels compelled to patch them, because I hate any kind of misunderstanding (which hilariously I ended up creating my own). Even when the potential misunderstanding is dozens of pages earlier and doesn't involve myself

Aerith’s Final Fantasy Opinion

In this thread, I have viewed many people misconstrue what someone has said.

I don't want to assume the worst of people. Maybe they aren't the way I wish they would be right now, but that doesn't mean they can't come to eventually. Am I disappointed when they fail my expectations of goodness? Absolutely, but I also recognize that I don’t have all the answers, and that my own values can be fallible. I try, but don’t always succeed, to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when I don't vibe with them personally.

I consider myself a decent judge of character and people's intentions. I truly believe that our community is full of people who are good or can be good. My life experiences have shown me that, on an individual basis, people can genuinely change after having positive experiences with people they disagree with, rather than avoiding them. There are obvious lines in the sand with this; I don’t think vulnerable people should cozy up to their oppressors and that that will somehow lead to world peace. My patience is not for people in power; my patience is for the everyday person.

I don't think this mindset is for everyone. It’s very taxing to be around people who don’t share your values, especially for marginalized individuals whose every day is dealing with injustices that they shouldn’t have to. I am not insisting that everyone should be like me or to give people infinite chances. But seeing people write off others who disagree with them on 1-2 things, as irredeemable, so quickly, does make my heart sink. With who I am as a person, that doesn’t feel like, “something a good person would do”.

But those are my values, not yours. Tensions are high, there are multiple issues that need to be addressed; I can understand why tempers are short after this being stretched out for so long. No one is entitled to good faith forever (or at all, really, but it is something I hope people give).

I see a lot of unhappy people; active members are leaving or taking a hiatus. I see many who find this whole situation painful and overwhelming. I hope everyone can ask themselves, “What am I trying to accomplish when I enter this thread?” and that they have an answer that is healthy for them.

But if seeing this thread stresses you out, please be good to yourself and stop looking at it: you have the self-discipline to do so. If you have no faith in the staff or you're disturbed by certain members, do you think that this faith can be realistically returned, and do you think that any new ruling will adjust their behavior? This is not me saying anyone’s feelings are wrong, this is me hoping that people take care of themselves.

That being said: the situation is beyond normal de-escalation techniques. Apologies are a first step, but they need to be backed with decisive action. It's hard to fix an us vs. them situation when grievances fester. I understand the staff’s thought process of giving people space by limiting conversation, but people aren't cooling down. They're communicating with their friends and those who agree with them, and keeping the fires stoked.

I love TBT, the friends I have made here, and I cherish my acquaintances, too. This sentiment we share is why we have this thread. I hope that the thread's purpose can be fulfilled sooner than later.

 

[mogyay]

• I agree with daringred that The Banned User's (TBU) posts in the Backdrops thread were unnecessarily aggressive. TBU is passionate about matters of justice, but at times their language can come across as dismissive of differing viewpoints. That's why I posted when I did, because I felt like many people (not just TBU) were being unfair to the non-Americans who were fine with or even liked the puzzle piece. I understand why it’s abhorred in North America, but it requires nuance when considering the global community.
  This, I assume, is what Jeremy’s comment about dog-piling occurring when TBU speaks, was referring to. TBU is considered by many to be someone they look up to, who tries to do the right thing. This can make more impressionable members go, "Oh! TBU is against this? Then I have to be, too, or I'm a bad person." It's tough to have different opinions from your friends or community members you admire.
  Still, it’s a hard sell to say this is TBU’s fault, unless they pressured people on an individual basis. I also feel like whatever warning they had before their last should have indicated that a year ban would be on the table if they broke the rules again.

I wanted to touch on this point particularly since jeremy included it in the ban message to seliph as a point against them, i know you said it's a "hard sell" but you still brought it up so you must think it holds at least some value - i don't see how it can be held against a user that people look up to them, if someone is impressionable then that's on them alone and can't possibly be attributed to seliph and used against him. possibly not in this current climate (lol) but at least at some points in tbt history it would have been much easier to disagree with seliph given how much staff have disliked him

disagreements are part of forum culture, i count seliph among my best friends and we disagree on plenty, again i just don't think that jeremy is able to understand that a blunt exchange of words doesn't equate to rude behaviour, it's just how some people communicate..

i'd say dogpiling is more relevant to people reporting him at this point, it feels far more targeted than the pretty simple exchange that happened between daring and seliph

 

[EpicGamer12]

-snip-

This is probably the most well-reasoned and level-headed response I've seen in the thread. I've been lurking awhile and I really appreciate your take.

One comment about staff being slow to action: it's important to understand that making decisions takes time. The staff are human - they need to take time to read, discuss, and plan out their course of action. They will likely disagree internally. They are probably reading this thread after work when they've already had a long day. Let's be patient and loving with each other. Antagonization on either side has happened when it shouldn't.

My perspective on the issues:
- While I agree with Aerith that a slightly suggestive joke here and there is totally fine, perhaps the community has swayed in such a way that those types of jokes are no longer welcome. The staff seem receptive to changing this rule, which is a great step forward. FWIW many members of the collectible community have made similar suggestive jokes on the forum and the TBT discord in the past. Society has clearly shifted, and if the main membership has too, then it makes sense to change the rules to fit the community.
- The staff member who took a hiatus has done an immense amount of work for TBT over the years. They've been a significant part of the community. That does not excuse their actions, however. To my eyes, it is clear in this conflict that people are not going to rest until that staff member is held accountable for stating that they have slept with people younger than them. I do not think this situation will be resolved until that staff member is demoted.
- PLEASE stop prefacing your posts with "I'm probably going to get warned/banned/etc for this". It is unnecessary antagonization and does nothing for the resolution of this situation. It is clear in this thread that public criticism of the staff is welcomed as long as it's not overt insults. We can say how we feel without assuming we are going to be punished for it.

I know nobody really cares about my opinion, but figured I would share it anyway. Love you all and hope this matter can be resolved. I will miss TBT if it goes down in flames

 

[xSuperMario64x]

Part of me understands wanting to keep problematic posts visible... I like to know whether someone is bigoted or shady and seeing those types of posts helps me determine who I can feel safe around. With that said though, I do think old problematic posts should be deleted if staff or someone else comes across them. Almost all the content on the forum is available to anyone regardless of whether they're signed in or not, and if they happen to stumble upon something inappropriate they might get the impression that that sort of thing is accepted on here and either decide to leave as a result of that or make an account thinking they're in a place where their bigotry would be accepted.

you make a very valid point here and I agree 100%. I know there have been some very concerning posts made by members and staff in the past. and honestly, I suppose there isn't much actual worry of this stuff being swept under the rug, because members do see these things and they do raise these concerns. I just worry about staff using the power of deleting any post they want to avoid accountability.

 

[Oblivia]

I want to touch upon a few things here while I have the time.

First, I'm in full agreement that any form of sex talk has no place on TBT. I felt this way when I joined the forum back in 2014, but as previously mentioned, the majority of the community felt differently at the time and thus there was never an outright ban on the topic. However, as the community is naturally going to grow and evolve over time, I feel it's appropriate for our rules to do the same.

For this second point, I'm going to try and remove my emotions as much as I'm able in order to remain as objective as possible. I see and recognize that there's a lot of legitimate feedback here in this thread. I see it and ideally I'd like to do something about it, likely in the form of an organized dialogue of some kind.

I also see many of you criticizing the lack of staff response/timely replies, and I want to touch on that for a moment. I see numerous posts here denying any rudeness, aggressiveness, or harassment of the staff, and while I don't fully agree with this even re: the content of the feedback thread itself, behind the scenes it's been a very different story. I waffled over this quite a bit, but at this point I'm disgusted enough that I want to give you all a glimpse of exactly how deep the behind-the-scenes harassment has gone since this thread's creation.

I can't blame our staff team for being hesitant to post their thoughts about all of this when, at the time of this post, there's been name-calling, targeted personal insults, threats of harm/doxxing, and most recently and concerningly, threats of sexual violence directed at me personally and sent anonymously through the Contact Us form.

Spoiler: TW: Graphic mention of abuse

I do want to once again touch upon the topic of my (admittedly unacceptably late) apology, but first, I'll go ahead and say that NO ONE should have to read or be subjected to this level of harassment, full stop. People are allowed to be angry, people should be allowed to say their piece provided it's in a relatively respectful manner, but this? This is next-level disgusting. I don't believe for a second that the person underneath the censor bar would have sanctioned something like this so I'm not throwing out any accusations, but man... I don't know what type of person you'd have to be to say this to someone. I also want to state that this is far from an isolated instance. There have been multiple vaguely threatening emails sent over the past ~2 weeks along with CTS threads that I don't think anyone could argue weren't abusive on some level. Don't get me wrong - I recognize that as staff we have to take it on the chin at times, but I think I can speak for the entire team when I say that we sure as hell didn't sign up for this level of vitriol and abuse. Expanding further, it should go without saying that any form of harassment targeting the staff team is completely counterproductive to both the thread's purpose and aligning the community's wants and needs with ours, though I doubt the lovely individual behind the above screenshot had this in mind when they clicked submit.

To address recent mentions of my defending of the candy van graphic back in 2020 and my stupidly late apology, all I can say is that I've always been someone who believes that actions speak much louder than words, and I've seen this sentiment echoed by many people here in this thread. Could and should I have apologized at the time? Yes, of course. But I've also not made any repeats of such conduct since, nor would I make the same decisions today, so I hope I've proven through my actions that I heard everyone who spoke up and did spend time reflecting on the situation, albeit privately. I'm much like Mairmalade in that I'm far more comfortable being approached with concerns via DM as it can be overwhelming for anyone to respond when they feel they're being ganged up on - not in this situation specifically and more generally speaking - so please know that I'm always open to being approached, even if it's to tell me I've messed up. It hurts to read that people may not feel comfortable reaching out to me via private message and I want to believe that's not true as I have had countless members reach out for help and advice since, but please know that I am always open to hearing from members via DM, whether it's a concern about me specifically or anything else. I may not always have the capacity or time for an immediate reply but I welcome any and all messages, anytime.

I'm unsure of how much more I'll be posting as I feel very uneasy and borderline unsafe after some of what's transpired - not all of which has been covered in this post - but I hope you all know that I appreciate you even in times of chaos. I'm not perfect and have certainly made mistakes over the years, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this forum and its members have been a big part of my free time over the last decade.

Separately, and as a very brief reply to Aerith's post specifically: I really like the idea of community liasons and believe this would warrant a further discussion within the staff team, among many other topics already mentioned here.

 

[-Apples-]

@Oblivia

I’m really sorry that the whole staff team has been facing attacks from others. Especially the sexual threats. I’m sure many of us discussed this thread off-site. Even I have discussed this thread off-site. But I was more concerned about the community. The staff team may have made some mistakes in the past, but nothing warrants comments like this.