The Official Feedback Thread

[-Apples-]

one more note and then I'll go to bed for real so I'm sorry for the brevity, but I just wanna reiterate that there are also people who aren't comfortable speaking up in this thread because they've seen concerns dismissed and called hostile and aggressive. I'd hope everyone who wants to say something in here feels like they can do so and realizes that just because people may disagree it doesn't mean it's a personal attack, but if someone's not comfortable, I get staying away and keeping concerns private in the contact the staff thread. protect your peace! I just wanted to note that the vague gestures toward hostility and referring to those who disagree as the mob is hurtful for others to read as well. I'm not sure which posts some people are reading as rude, but if by chance it's any of mine, please feel free to reach out to me and let me know so I can re-examine how I'm wording things. I'm a big fan of accountability

From my perspective of the opposing posts, yours have actually been calm and reasonable, and not rude. You were against the staff, but you weren’t aggressive or rude to them. I may have seen aggression from those who went against the staff, but even I acknowledge that not all of these posts were rude or condescending.

 

[ShawnFuzz]

 

[Firesquids]

Hi I'm going to sum up (some of) my thoughts here! I'm not great at phrasing things and can often come across as more aggressive than I intend to, but Id hate to have to end everything I post with a in fear that I might be interpreted as rude either way.

*** Nothing in this post is a personal attack against anybody!!!!


Some issues I'd like to bring up are accountability, power dynamics, dismissing feedback, community management/ moderation and toxic positivity.

The staff on TBT function as community leaders, and I do believe that they should be held to a higher standard than regular community members, especially moderators. By joining the staff they have chosen to represent TBT as a whole, there is a smaller margin for mistakes because they are the representatives of the forum and should model the ideal behavior that is expected of people on the forum, that is to say, they should be the paradigm of behavior that is appropriate to exhibit on TBT.

If I or any other regular member of the community were to post something inappropriate and against the rules, there should be consequences for our actions. Considering that Chris is a public-facing member of our community and a representative of TBT, there should have been an official public action taken addressing this issue to set the standard, an apology from Chris alone simply isn't an adequate response from staff. This becomes especially apparent when at the same time a member of our community was banned for an entire year for voicing their concerns about a harmful organization because they didn't phrase it nicely enough. Rules are not being enforced consistently here.

Apologizing for an action is a great start! But there needs to be an official response from the moderation staff as a whole that this behavior was inappropriate and an action plan to address it and other concerning posts around the forums. (I've personally seen many disgusting comments in old threads that were never addressed by staff beyond just locking the thread. These posts are still up on the site, it strikes me as really strange considering events like Easter have us digging through old threads to find eggs, where I've run across some of these nasty bigoted comments while searching.)

I have a background in management and my opinion is this. Managers (staff, especially moderation staff) should be able to listen to their crew (in this case, their community members) and be open to their feedback and make a clear plan for improvement, concerns should be addressed promptly, and goals need deadlines.

Regarding toxic positivity, I'm often in the camp of trying to discuss things calmly and openly, but that can only happen if the two parties are participating fairly in the discussion. When one party is expressing legitimate concerns and is met with silence after posting in CTS, had their posts calling out inappropriate behavior deleted, and been generally dismissed as “overreacting”, it becomes futile to continue discourse in subjectively “nice” manner. Its cases like this that highlight how people need the ability to discuss directly who they are talking about and their posts should not be deleted. If the original party posted something publicly than it is public knowledge that they posted it.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where people could calmly nicely, say their opinion and have it recognized and acknowledged, but that's not what's been happening here, and so tensions are high. Coming into this discussion and saying “hey guys let's all be good happy friends now” is very dismissive, as it's been said multiple times in this thread. The tone in which somebody says something doesn't make it right or wrong. It's dangerous to silence passionate voices because you don't like the way their opinions are phrased, this serves to silence people who are the most outspoken. On that note, just because people agree on something doesn't mean that they are of a hivemind. I have my own thoughts, I'm not part of a mob, and it's disingenuous to group everyone who has different opinion on something than you into one “them”.

 

[daringred_]

This becomes especially apparent when at the same time a member of our community was banned for an entire year for voicing their concerns about a harmful organization because they didn't phrase it nicely enough.

since the posts in question from the user were directed at me, i would like to make one thing clear: this is not about phrasing things nicely enough. their responses to me were rude, accusatory and put words in my mouth, and my boundaries were not respected under the guise of it being a public discussion. if you or anyone else didn't think they were rude, fine, but they also weren't aimed at you, and you are not me. nobody gets to tell me, the affected party, if they can or can't be rude and/or how they should make me feel.

and even still, whether anyone believes me or not, i did not report this user for those responses. and i think the week ban was fine if other people did, but a year is extreme.

 

[Sharksheep]

Here's the reason why I can't accept just accept an apology and just move on.

The issue is repeated inappropriate behavior over years. And despite the fact that the posts are several years old, found what it sounds like it was also still occuring in jackbox games in the TBT voice chats. The apology is for that behavior. Not enough time has past to show that Chris has stopped.

An apology doesn't have to be accepted right away, which is a concept people are struggling with since they want me to move on and drop the issue. Forgiveness isn't always immediate. An apology is the first step and not the last. Nothing has happened for me think "oh things are changing for the better".

Why do I continuing name dropping staff members? It's not for a witch hunt. It's for accountability. It's so people remember that these staff behaved inappropriately and hold them accountable if they do it again in the future. My original post got shadow edit out because I name and criticize a staff member. Oblivia apologized and I can believe that it won't happen again but only time will tell. As far as I'm aware, Jeremy hasn't acknowledge his part in it.

I joined in 2020 and the van incident happened in 2020. It completely colored my impression of that staff that any public negative criticism towards them would be met with a complete shut down of the conversation. I suspect that warning and infractions were handed out cause of tone and rudeness and use of words that were not palatable enough for nice behavior. I'm sure that CTS were going to be ignored cause my previous ones about inappropriate behavior about other members on discord were ignored and never got a response.

I thought it would be okay to bring up the inappropriateness now but my post was shadow edit out of the name and vague reference of inappropriate behavior. How else was I supposed to interpret it? Don't call them out for behaving badly? I should have made a CTS? Again I had CTS ignored without any acknowledgement so I had little faith in them acknowledging any when it's directed at them. Public criticism was shut down so I was sure that private ones would either have been ignored or shut down as well.

 

[Lancelot]

I’m not quoting daringred as it’s not a direct reply to everything they said, but this does make me wonder if the staff could give any details or clarification on how banning/reports are taken into consideration/the process of it all?

If the “victim” (for lack of a better word) who got insulted/someone was ‘rude’ to didn’t report the post, is that taken into consideration before action is taken, or is the person contacted to see how they felt about the situation? It seems weird to me that other people can get offended on someone else’s behalf and it results in a ban.

Part of the ban message said something along the lines of ‘frequently disagreeing with other members makes you seem argumentative” but I don’t really understand how we are meant to have feedback threads like this or the backdrop one if when you disagree with someone it’s considered inflammatory.

I’ve probably missed a point or this seems like a messy message but it just still feels like the banned user hasn’t been given the same grace as certain other people who have made far worse comments than disagreeing with someone.

 

[Chris]

The issue is repeated inappropriate behavior over years. And despite the fact that the posts are several years old, found what it sounds like it was also still occuring in jackbox games in the TBT voice chats. The apology is for that behavior. Not enough time has past to show that Chris has stopped.

Okay popping back in quickly to clarify this, then I really would love to be able to take a break without fear of misinformation being spread in my absence. I was not the one making inappropriate comments in Jackbox. I was the one telling them to keep it clean. All Jackbox sessions are specifically run with family-friendly mode on to discourage inappropriate comments and are closely moderated - there's often a second staff member present in addition to myself.

The only voice chat I have participated in in years was the staff Among Us session we did at the end of the most recent TBT World Championships and I didn't contribute much in that as I hate how feminine my voice sounds. Besides that I don't think I've engaged in any voice chat with non-staff members in... I don't know, 10 years? Whenever we used Mumble. So I don't even know where this one has come from.

I remember at one point I had someone over during a Mario Kart session and someone in the chat made an inappropriate joke when I mentioned making BBQ food, I can't remember how I responded to that, but yet again that was years ago. Maybe that is what was being referred to. While I can't place the date off the top of my head it was definitely before I met my girlfriend in May 2022, who very quickly kicked some sense into me! Plus a good friend who was bold enough to point out, "being trans isn't a choice, but toxic masculinity is." We've not spoken in a year a half, but those words have stuck with me.

These posts were all years ago. I'm not the same person I was then and haven't been for a long time. And I acknowledged and apologised for that past behaviour in my post a couple of weeks ago.

 

[daringred_]

I’m not quoting daringred as it’s not a direct reply to everything they said, but this does make me wonder if the staff could give any details or clarification on how banning/reports are taken into consideration/the process of it all?

If the “victim” (for lack of a better word) who got insulted/someone was ‘rude’ to didn’t report the post, is that taken into consideration before action is taken, or is the person contacted to see how they felt about the situation? It seems weird to me that other people can get offended on someone else’s behalf and it results in a ban.

Part of the ban message said something along the lines of ‘frequently disagreeing with other members makes you seem argumentative” but I don’t really understand how we are meant to have feedback threads like this or the backdrop one if when you disagree with someone it’s considered inflammatory.

I’ve probably missed a point or this seems like a messy message but it just still feels like the banned user hasn’t been given the same grace as certain other people who have made far worse comments than disagreeing with someone.

i realize you're not quoting me, and i really appreciate that, but i would like to say part of the reason i didn't report is because i don't have much confidence in the staff and didn't think anything would come of it. the other is because i didn't want to get dogpiled or ostracized if anything did happen, a worry this thread has somewhat validated. it wasn't because i didn't feel hurt or offended or upset, since i did, and i ultimately just muted the user and the thread instead as a middle ground. i've defended the banned user's tone in the past, unsure if it was this exact thread or not, as i struggle with my tone being misconstrued online as well, but ironically they didn't afford me the same grace in the diversity discussion and were quickly antagonistic and accusatory. it's been really hurtful to see people in this thread, indirectly or otherwise, suggest that i'm too sensitive or need to be babied and have things sugarcoated because they think the response was fine when they're friends with said user and/or not in my position at all. it's easy to say it's fine when you're not the one on the receiving end of that.

like i said, i think the week ban was fine enough, it didn't need to be a year or anything else, but it was more than disagreeing with me, it was creating a hostile environment where people who were asked for their opinion by a staff member wouldn't feel comfortable expressing it for fear of being treated the same way, something this thread has also proven does happen, and is why i haven't said much of anything about this specific issue until now. i figure some people who have seen the ban message probably think i'm at fault anyway, so silence isn't going to make much of a difference.

 

[mogyay]

i realize you're not quoting me, and i really appreciate that, but i would like to say part of the reason i didn't report is because i don't have much confidence in the staff and didn't think anything would come of it. the other is because i didn't want to get dogpiled or ostracized if anything did happen, a worry this thread has somewhat validated. it wasn't because i didn't feel hurt or offended or upset, since i did, and i ultimately just muted the user and the thread instead as a middle ground. i've defended the banned user's tone in the past, unsure if it was this exact thread or not, as i struggle with my tone being misconstrued online as well, but ironically they didn't afford me the same grace in the diversity discussion and were quickly antagonistic and accusatory. it's been really hurtful to see people in this thread, indirectly or otherwise, suggest that i'm too sensitive or need to be babied and have things sugarcoated because they think the response was fine when they're friends with said user and/or not in my position at all. it's easy to say it's fine when you're not the one on the receiving end of that.

like i said, i think the week ban was fine enough, it didn't need to be a year or anything else, but it was more than disagreeing with me, it was creating a hostile environment where people who were asked for their opinion by a staff member wouldn't feel comfortable expressing it for fear of being treated the same way, something this thread has also proven does happen, and is why i haven't said much of anything about this specific issue until now. i figure some people who have seen the ban message probably think i'm at fault anyway, so silence isn't going to make much of a difference.

i'm surprised you say that you didn't think anything would come of it considering that jeremy has publicly stated his dislike of seliph lol, but anyway that's beside the point

i re-read the thread today and to be honest no one was particularly rude.. i felt like i was going crazy and had to ask if anything had been deleted because it was just a disagreement in opinion over something.. you both were similar in tone and i do think this was probably just a miscommunication and probably would have been addressed if seliph wasn't immediately banned for an entire year, even if you had reported seliph i would hope you wouldn't be dogpiled or ostracised (and that goes for anyone) as it's up to the staff to moderate reports and affect them appropriately, my problem in this instance as i think jeremy used it as an excuse to ban someone he doesn't like for a significant period

also i can't speak on what other people have said but you are someone i agree with on a lot of things and i don't think anyone has implied you're too sensitive or need to be babied, you seem to hold your own just fine - i do have a problem with people who routinely post that other people are not allowed to communicate with them on a public forum since this is just unrealistic and unfair (for context i don't mind this occasionally being used on heavier topics but not on a feedback thread and not every second post, as other people have mentioned if you have this much of a problem with feedback then they should start a blog, i mean this with no ill will but it also damages the forum since it just has turned itself into the blog tree diaries which isn't interesting to engage with anymore and i have zero interest in staying here to engage with nothing)

 

[daringred_]

i'm surprised you say that you didn't think anything would come of it considering that jeremy has publicly stated his dislike of seliph lol, but anyway that's beside the point

i re-read the thread today and to be honest no one was particularly rude.. i felt like i was going crazy and had to ask if anything had been deleted because it was just a disagreement in opinion over something.. you both were similar in tone and i do think this was probably just a miscommunication and probably would have been addressed if seliph wasn't immediately banned for an entire year, even if you had reported seliph i would hope you wouldn't be dogpiled or ostracised (and that goes for anyone) as it's up to the staff to moderate reports and affect them appropriately, my problem in this instance as i think jeremy used it as an excuse to ban someone he doesn't like for a significant period

also i can't speak on what other people have said but you are someone i agree with on a lot of things and i don't think anyone has implied you're too sensitive or need to be babied, you seem to hold your own just fine - i do have a problem with people who routinely post that other people are not allowed to communicate with them on a public forum since this is just unrealistic and unfair (for context i don't mind this occasionally being used on heavier topics but not on a feedback thread and not every second post, as other people have mentioned if you have this much of a problem with feedback then they should start a blog, i mean this with no ill will but it also damages the forum since it just has turned itself into the blog tree diaries which isn't interesting to engage with anymore and i have zero interest in staying here to engage with nothing)

to be fair, i don't think jeremy likes me much either lmao which is why, partly because of the incident i brought up a few pages back. it's always made me hesitant to reach out to staff about anything, including making reports, especially because the reporting process is often so hush-hush. afaik, you don't find out if anything came from it or what they say in the ban message or to the reported user etc.

i don't know if i want to go back and read through the thread, but what i considered rude was accusing me of putting words in people's mouths (which did not happen) and saying i was being too defensive, which was them ironically not giving my tone the same grace we're expected to give theirs. and then continuing to quote me after i expressed a disinterest in debating the matter. discussion is one thing, but not when you're being confrontational and don't seem willing to hear other opinions, and in a situation where we were specifically asked for our thoughts, it's unhelpful to create an environment where people feel like they can't share theirs because they fear they might be accused of ableism or supporting autism speaks or anything else. (not saying anyone did do this, to be clear.) i didn't comment further on that thread for this specific reason, and it's clear some other people didn't either, hence why i later suggested an anonymous form of some kind.

there are posts here that have said people shouldn't need to be babied or have things sugarcoated and are too sensitive etc. like i said, they might not be directly aimed at me, but given that it's responses to my posts that resulted in at least the temporary ban, comments like, "they shouldn't have been banned for not being nice/polite enough, not sugarcoating, not babying everything," etc. do just end up inadvertently aimed at me because of the ban. with the exception of that diversity thread, i have never said people can't interact with my posts/opinions or quote me, i actually used to be quite confrontational and opinionated on here myself before i worked on my tone a lot more. i only expressed that in this specific instance because the user was being a little hostile, as far as i was concerned, and it was starting to make me very uncomfortable.

 

[Lancelot]

i realize you're not quoting me, and i really appreciate that, but i would like to say part of the reason i didn't report is because i don't have much confidence in the staff and didn't think anything would come of it. the other is because i didn't want to get dogpiled or ostracized if anything did happen, a worry this thread has somewhat validated. it wasn't because i didn't feel hurt or offended or upset, since i did, and i ultimately just muted the user and the thread instead as a middle ground. i've defended the banned user's tone in the past, unsure if it was this exact thread or not, as i struggle with my tone being misconstrued online as well, but ironically they didn't afford me the same grace in the diversity discussion and were quickly antagonistic and accusatory. it's been really hurtful to see people in this thread, indirectly or otherwise, suggest that i'm too sensitive or need to be babied and have things sugarcoated because they think the response was fine when they're friends with said user and/or not in my position at all. it's easy to say it's fine when you're not the one on the receiving end of that.

like i said, i think the week ban was fine enough, it didn't need to be a year or anything else, but it was more than disagreeing with me, it was creating a hostile environment where people who were asked for their opinion by a staff member wouldn't feel comfortable expressing it for fear of being treated the same way, something this thread has also proven does happen, and is why i haven't said much of anything about this specific issue until now. i figure some people who have seen the ban message probably think i'm at fault anyway, so silence isn't going to make much of a difference.

I don't have time to reply to all this as I'm meant to be working, but I just thought I'd say from anyone that I've spoken to about the ban/ban message no one blames you. A couple of weeks after a lot of us were aware you hadn't even reported the message but I personally didn't want to bring up who and who didn't report it unless said people did first. I think it just made us even more confused about the situation when it feels like you had already dealt with it yourself - but I just thought I'd say this in case you've felt like you couldn't post with the fear of getting piled on or something..

 

[daringred_]

I don't have time to reply to all this as I'm meant to be working, but I just thought I'd say from anyone that I've spoken to about the ban/ban message no one blames you. A couple of weeks after a lot of us were aware you hadn't even reported the message but I personally didn't want to bring up who and who didn't report it unless said people did first. I think it just made us even more confused about the situation when it feels like you had already dealt with it yourself - but I just thought I'd say this in case you've felt like you couldn't post with the fear of getting piled on or something..

this was the fear, so i appreciate it! context clues early on made me realize my discussion with the banned user was probably what resulted in at least the temporary ban, but i couldn't be sure because i didn't feel comfortable reaching out to anyone who had seen the ban message lol. eventually i just happened to get talking with someone who had seen it and told them i didn't even report the messages quoted as reason for the ban to begin with, but even if i had, i would still think anything more than a few days or a week is overkill. changing it to a year with little to no warning and using the incident to retroactively punish past behavior does feel very unwarranted and unfair to me, so i'm with people on that one.

 

[BetsySundrop]

And despite the fact that the posts are several years old, found what it sounds like it was also still occuring in jackbox games in the TBT voice chats.

I wanted to address this. Chris got there first, but just to confirm - the innapropriate yet hilarious jackbox things came from members playing the games, never from Chris or any of the staff. I'm sorry if that was unclear.

And im not saying i think the members should be punished for any of it. Just that certain topics/inappropriateness have occurred everywhere (by members, too). Why not move forward by coming up with a clearly defined rule for the forum that sets firm lines on what can/cannot be discussed. Chris is already taking a break. Maybe try to work out what levels of the topic the forum would be comfortable with?

An apology doesn't have to be accepted right away, which is a concept people are struggling with since they want me to move on and drop the issue

Of course not! Personally, I'm not suggesting drop anything. I'm suggesting - be fair in the criticism, and maybe offer a rule you want going forward?

Just getting rid of a staff member (which would upset people who aren't speaking publicly) would not solve anything. We still would not have clear delineations of what is/is not acceptable going forward.

I thought it would be okay to bring up the inappropriateness now but my post was shadow edit out of the name and vague reference of inappropriate behavior. How else was I supposed to interpret it?

Just another perspective - I viewed this as something staff felt had been dealt with in the past, so no need to rehash what had already been dealt with. I can see where if past issues that were already handled are brought up years later as still a problem it could be seen as not necessary/not part of the current issues. But I also see that removing it caused a new issue.

Eventually, though, there was an explanation and apology given for how both were handled, and how things/people/ events have changed since then, and how things are now.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 12:05 PM

Maybe that is what was being referred to.

No, sorry to have been unclear. It was an answer from a member that i can't say here.

I about fell out of my chair laughing, and the member even said they were sorry if they offended anyone but couldn't resist the joke. In the comments everyone was fine with it and saw the humor.

You staff are always keeping it clean in jackbox. Still hilarious fun though.

 

[-Mars-]

I have no idea on what you are talking about here. The banned user wasn't the topic of discussion at all in my pms. I personally had no issues with the banned user, so i haven't offered any opinion on it. I don't know the full story, at all, and i don't want to know. I regard this as not my business. This had nothing to do with why people were upset.

Alright I'm awake now so I can address this one post

Right, I am not referring to you at all. I am once again asking Dunquixote who she thinks is being a "bully" and "overly aggressive" because she randomly comes in this thread and claims that some people here are bullies and refuses to specify who then leaves. I'm dying to know who she has a problem with because I believe it's someone who is not afraid to address serious topics at hand such as users I already tried to name and we've already had this conversation about tone dozens of times now.

Dunquixote claims people here are bullies and I am saying that I know some people on the forums aren't fans of the banned user and seem pleased that they got banned, it almost seems as if they wanted this to happen and tried to accomplish this but that is a stretch. I also know that some people here aren't fans of me or other people in this thread who are discussing serious issues, perceiving us to be "overly aggressive" Dunquixote wants this "overly aggressive" behavior to be addressed in some manner and that people are apparently leaving because of the way we talk to staff or anyone else, I am trying to suggest that it seems some people here would like it better if we weren't around the forums because of the way we talk because you report us for our tone of voice, you guys seemed to be big fans of reporting the banned user because you have a negative bias against them, Jeremy even says so! If you guys have a negative bias against us and claim we need to be handled and won't even specific who, if we are bullies then what does that make you?

Dunquixote tells me to read through the thread pages and figure out for myself who she is talking about as if I can read her mind and understand her exact perspective, it seems we are the problem and we should all just be quiet because that will solve the "bullying" and "aggression" Dunquixote says she has a issue and doesn't even want to clarify how it should be addressed. Not sure why Jeremy is quoting me, I'm asking for clarification I'm not trying to confirm or deny anything.

Honestly this whole thing just feels like a us vs them situation like god forbid I try and have a conversation with Dunquixote and I get told I'm not going to receive a proper response and now I'm being quoted by Jeremy and you for some reason.

No. I think it's very fair to speak up. I'm not biased against any person. I tried to address this in my previous post.

I am referring to Apples who claims we are "dividing the forums" and the people who are liking Jeremy's posts such as the one he made about locking the thread, you guys seemed to be pleased we can no longer talk because we are being "aggressive" and disrupting the forums and the post you guys are liking that Jeremy made quoting me for asking Dunquixote to clarify things, why is Jeremy quoting me? Is it because he wants me to be quiet?

I think it's different perspectives. I'm not bothered by rude tone, personally. I actually like some of the people you listed. (Not that i dislike anyone, i just don't know everyone).

What happens if you make a mistake? Or if you post something in the past that you would not post today? That's what I was addressing.

Several staff have posted sincere apologies, explanations, and outlined what they plan to change moving forward.

But it's never enough. Some accept it as a sincere effort to take responsibility and move forward, some don't. Maybe that's where part of the divide is?

One person who contacted me (and left) just did not want to be part of something that could become this way, so unforgiving and aggressive.

No comment really because I'm once again trying to have a conversation with Dunquixote and get shut down, I'm not really part of this specific discussion, several other people are sharing their opinions on this matter and I don't really want to participate in answering whether Chris's apology was good or bad and whether or not we should accept it, at least not for the time being I don't.

 

[skarmoury]

If a person states their age 'preferences' but has a very CLEAR disclaimer of: providing everyone is consenting adults - that means what it says, consenting adults.

May you please add the context that you are saying this in defense of a person who, at the time, we thought was around 28 years old, posting about dating people almost 10 years younger than them? Just so people can get a better picture of what you stand for.

(edit: to clarify I am not here to slander any staff member's name. I'd like clarification on the notion that an age gap with someone this young is acceptable to some people. I'm sorry for my previous wording.)

I'm not saying all age gaps are bad. Like someone in their 30s deciding to date people much older than them. They are mature adults. But a fresh 18 year old with someone A WHOLE DECADE older than them is a completely different scenario as 18-year-olds are still wildly immature despite being legally "adults". There is an obvious power imbalance between a teenager and someone in their late 20s, which makes it extremely easy for the older party to manipulate the younger party.

I hold this topic very close to me for the pain and fear it has caused me. I really don't want to go into detail, but essentially I was at the age of "legal consent" (in my country it's 16, mind you) and I thought I was mature enough to get into a relationship with someone much older than me. It ended up causing me so much pain that I cannot for my life ever defend the notion that any age gap is okay as long as it's legally consenting. You can argue 18 is different from 16 if you want to discuss the definition of an adult but let's be real, would these 2 years change anything when the other party is in their late 20s?

If you still want to defend this type of action then alright, you're free to come to your own conclusions. But I also cannot see myself existing in the same space as people who stand by sentiments that are extremely harmful to me and many others.

I'm sad to distance myself from TBT but it's comments like these that just make me very uncomfortable to stay for long. I'm really sorry.

 

[Doo]

Alright I'm awake now so I can address this one post

Right, I am not referring to you at all. I am once again asking Dunquixote who she thinks is being a "bully" and "overly aggressive" because she randomly comes in this thread and claims that some people here are bullies and refuses to specify who then leaves. I'm dying to know who she has a problem with because I believe it's someone who is not afraid to address serious topics at hand such as users I already tried to name and we've already had this conversation about tone dozens of times now.

Dunquixote claims people here are bullies and I am saying that I know some people on the forums aren't fans of the banned user and seem pleased that they got banned, it almost seems as if they wanted this to happen and tried to accomplish this but that is a stretch. I also know that some people here aren't fans of me or other people in this thread who are discussing serious issues, perceiving us to be "overly aggressive" Dunquixote wants this "overly aggressive" behavior to be addressed in some manner and that people are apparently leaving because of the way we talk to staff or anyone else, I am trying to suggest that it seems some people here would like it better if we weren't around the forums because of the way we talk because you report us for our tone of voice, you guys seemed to be big fans of reporting the banned user because you have a negative bias against them, Jeremy even says so! If you guys have a negative bias against us and claim we need to be handled and won't even specific who, if we are bullies then what does that make you?

Dunquixote tells me to read through the thread pages and figure out for myself who she is talking about as if I can read her mind and understand her exact perspective, it seems we are the problem and we should all just be quiet because that will solve the "bullying" and "aggression" Dunquixote says she has a issue and doesn't even want to clarify how it should be addressed. Not sure why Jeremy is quoting me, I'm asking for clarification I'm not trying to confirm or deny anything.

Honestly this whole thing just feels like a us vs them situation like god forbid I try and have a conversation with Dunquixote and I get told I'm not going to receive a proper response and now I'm being quoted by Jeremy and you for some reason.

I am referring to Apples who claims we are "dividing the forums" and the people who are liking Jeremy's posts such as the one he made about locking the thread, you guys seemed to be pleased we can no longer talk because we are being "aggressive" and disrupting the forums and the post you guys are liking that Jeremy made quoting me for asking Dunquixote to clarify things, why is Jeremy quoting me? Is it because he wants me to be quiet?

No comment really because I'm once again trying to have a conversation with Dunquixote and get shut down, I'm not really part of this specific discussion, several other people are sharing their opinions on this matter and I don't really want to participate in answering whether Chris's apology was good or bad and whether or not we should accept it, at least not for the time being I don't.

I’m guessing Dunquixote is afraid to contribute in more detail because people get annoyed whatever is said in this thread and honestly, it’s scary. I don’t want to share my thoughts because I’m not in a place to know how to react when a load of people disagree with me at once. But it’s hard to ignore what’s going on here when it affects the forum so much and people’s friends are leaving etc.

Also Dun didn’t call anyone a bully, she said there was bullying. It’s not quite the same thing.

But she doesn’t want this to escalate and she wasn’t trying to cause an argument, I’m pretty sure she’s gone on hiatus because of the many negative responses to her post (because that’s hard to handle!!) so maybe we should leave her alone.

 

[BetsySundrop]

May you please add the context that you are saying this in defense of someone who, at the time, was around 28 years old, posting about dating people almost 10 years younger than them? Just so people can get a better picture of what you stand for.

Sure, happy to clarify.

If someone expresses that they date consenting adults of any age, that means consenting adults. Further clarifications have also been made on the topic that emphasize the person has never and would never be involved with anyone other than a consenting adult, confirming their original post of - only consenting adults.

To twist that person's words to suggest otherwise (when that person specifically stated only consenting adults) is imo just gross. It mischaracterizes the person in a disturbing way.

I'm sad to distance myself from TBT but it's comments like these that just make me very uncomfortable to stay for long. I'm really sorry.

And there are others who see the misrepresentation of statements extremely disturbing as well. I'm only suggesting people to stick with honest criticisms.

Clarifications have been made repeatedly. The original postings were very clear as well - consenting adults. But some continue to ignore these things to somehow make the person out to be an awful sort, the worst. It isn't factual, and isn't honest.

 

[Crash]

I’m guessing Dunquixote is afraid to contribute in more detail because people get annoyed whatever is said in this thread and honestly, it’s scary. I don’t want to share my thoughts because I’m not in a place to know how to react when a load of people disagree with me at once. But it’s hard to ignore what’s going on here when it affects the forum so much and people’s friends are leaving etc.

Also Dun didn’t call anyone a bully, she said there was bullying. It’s not quite the same thing.

But she doesn’t want this to escalate and she wasn’t trying to cause an argument, I’m pretty sure she’s gone on hiatus because of the many negative responses to her post (because that’s hard to handle!!) so maybe we should leave her alone.

i'm sorry, but no. i say this with kindness, but no. dun DID call people bullies. she directly said that people have left tbt because of said bullies. you can't just walk into the thread, make an accusation like that with zero evidence, and then expect no one to question you on it. this is a public discussion!!! unless someone is directly telling you to go to hell, why are we so utterly incapable of disagreement?!?!

people aren't just "getting annoyed" for no reason. it is astounding that i and my peers have had to say this 1000000 times by now. from the very beginning, there have been legitimate complaints. but the moment a small group of people, and that group includes dun herself, disagree with the direction of the conversation, everyone is labeled aggressive. the only genuinely rude post in the this thread was MINE. if you or your friends (not you specifically, a general "you") felt my post - my one post out of a dozen empathetic, well thought out posts - crossed a line, that is more than okay. but dismissing every other post in this thread as aggressive and bullying because you do not agree with them is EXACTLY WHY WE ARE HERE.

every single post in this thread that has defended staff behavior is belittling, dismissive and rude to everyone who feels otherwise. you (again, a general "you") expect everything to be sugarplums and rainbows here, and the moment it is not, we are all the antichrist for bringing it up. we are expected to be polite and respectful with every word we say, but the opposite side? the side that agrees with staff? it's perfectly acceptable for them to be obnoxious and rude to us. if you are uncomfortable with the feedback given, you do not need to read this thread. you do not need to participate in this if you are uncomfortable. you are entitled to share your thoughts. no one is telling anyone that they are not allowed to post here, but expecting to post in a feedback thread on a public forum and then get upset when people disagree is UNREAL.

those of you accusing us all of being bullies, i will again pose the same question i asked weeks ago, but i'll be more direct this time. YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED. seliph got banned, which is what you've wanted for eons. why is that not enough? you got your wish, but now you also feel the need to discredit anyone who has a problem with it? when will enough be enough for you people? and why the hell is it wrong for people to have an issue with a staff member behaving inappropriately?! because said staff member is your friend?! because "people can change"?! that doesn't matter when said people only seem to want to change when they're called out on it after years of sweeping it under the rug! y'all see only what you want to see, and if you want to live in ignorance, that's your choice and you're entitled to it. but why is it that y'all are so absolutely hellbent on dictating every little thing we say, from the tone we use to the words we say?! why do you insist on ignoring the context and what we are saying so that you can instead demonize us for our tone?

 

[Chris]

May you please add the context that you are saying this in defense of someone who, at the time, was around 28 years old, posting about dating people almost 10 years younger than them? Just so people can get a better picture of what you stand for.

I'm not saying all age gaps are bad. Like someone in their 30s deciding to date people much older than them. They are mature adults. But a fresh 18 year old with someone A WHOLE DECADE older than them is a completely different scenario as 18-year-olds are still wildly immature despite being legally "adults". There is an obvious power imbalance between a teenager and someone in their late 20s, which makes it extremely easy for the older party to manipulate the younger party.

I hold this topic very close to me for the pain and fear it has caused me. I really don't want to go into detail, but essentially I was at the age of "legal consent" (in my country it's 16, mind you) and I thought I was mature enough to get into a relationship with someone much older than me. It ended up causing me so much pain that I cannot for my life ever defend the notion that any age gap is okay as long as it's legally consenting. You can argue 18 is different from 16 if you want to discuss the definition of an adult but let's be real, would these 2 years change anything when the other party is in their late 20s?

If you still want to defend this type of action then alright, you're free to come to your own conclusions. But I also cannot see myself existing in the same space as people who stand by sentiments that are extremely harmful to me and many others.

I'm sad to distance myself from TBT but it's comments like these that just make me very uncomfortable to stay for long. I'm really sorry.

I'm seriously trying to take a break from TBT like people requested. But I cannot leave slander uncorrected.

I was not 28 in 2022.

I clarified this in that thread three years ago. I reclarified it two weeks ago. I'm 33. As already stated in this thread, my largest age difference with a person younger than me was 29 and 22 with my classmate (I previously said 21, but I realised I got that wrong after the fact and didn't want to edit to look like I was changing the narrative, I don't think it makes much difference anyway).

I don't know why people are so adamant in trying to age me down. There are many posts on this forum going back 12 years that clarify my age. I joined at 21 in 2013. I'm 33.

 

[BetsySundrop]

every single post in this thread that has defended staff behavior is belittling, dismissive and rude to everyone who feels otherwise.

I disagree on this.

those of you accusing us all of being bullies, i will again pose the same question i asked weeks ago, but i'll be more direct this time. YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED. seliph got banned, which is what you've wanted for eons. why is that not enough?

To clarify, the people pm'ing me (about what they see as aggressive/bullying behaviour) have said nothing about the ban. Some, like myself, actually had no issues with the banned person, who was quite helpful to me at one point.

The issue I'm speaking about is the mischaracterization of certain things in this thread and the aggressive/dishonest nature of postings about/toward staff. Nothing to do with the ban/ banned user. I've tried to be very specific with my posts, and have expressly started it has nothing to do with the ban. Hope this helps clarify things.