Generative AI images on TBT

[Hat']

While not being anything remotely close to an artist myself, I have been raised with values, I have also spent a significant amount of time with artists wether they be family, friends or people I look up to, and I know how to put two and two together and come to the conclusion that AI is just a bunch of bull****.
It doesn't bring anything new to the table, it's nefarious, it's gross, it's useless and it will always be. I don't think it's really useful to even be debating over ridiculous things such as "oh but what if this disabled baby with no arms uses AI to finally be happy, what would you say now?", okay and what if the world was made of pudding?
This discussion shouldn't even be taking place on this forum in my opinion, I feel as though it kind of is a tremendous lack of respect to this community that is filled with artists, each more talented than the other.
I am in no way targetting staff by saying this by the way, I'm pretty sure none of the staff members actually like or use GenAI in the first place, this is just frustration in general.

I cannot draw a straight line without shaking and yet I know that AI is bad, especially GenAI. It looks sloppy, and it looks unprofessionnal. Whenever I see anyone using AI the furthest thing from my mind is "I should go talk to them!", and if this makes me an "unwelcoming individual" then so be it! I'm all for pedagogy and not dismissing people who use AI because they don't know better, but I think a forum with such a high concentration of artists would be much more welcoming to even more amazing people if GenAI was banned than to stay in such a grey area and sorta allow it but not really.
Seriously what good is it for? Stealing creative peoples jobs for the sake of efficiency and cost reduction? Generating absurd looking images that, in the process, will consume insane amounts of energy while stealing art pieces from hard-working artists? Is that what we want to see on such a creative forum? I know I don't. I firmly agree that TBT should ban AI use altogether, it doesn't serve any purpose to anyone.

About avatars and sigs... it is so easy to find images or renders that everyone out there can use, you can also screenshot your favorite anime, or if you find a beautiful piece of art online, you can also ask the artist if you can use it with credit, it's that simple.
You can even commission an artist to make you something if you have money.
I don't even wanna use the "Art is a luxury" argument because you can find plenty of undervalued art everywhere, even here on TBT where artists just make gorgeous art for crazy cheap or even for free.


I suppose many of what I've said has already been mentioned, sorry if it was, but this is how I feel and I wanted to share my thoughts on it.

 

[Yoshi155]

I mean, someone still had to make the art, official art or not. But I see your point.

If the majority opinion is that Gen AI is banned across the board, majority rules. I accept this. However, personally, I think members reporting other members for using Gen AI for avatars/sigs is a type of policing I don't like seeing in my communities. I think it makes sense for events. I don't think it makes sense for avatars/sigs.

(late reply, I know. I was debating whether I felt it was necessary to respond or not) Agree to disagree I guess. Echoing the sentiment of the last two posts, I personally think it would only be a good thing if gen ai pfps and sigs were to be banned. Reporting people who are using them, unintentionally (which will probably be the more common case) or intentionally, is the only way to stop ai art from being used like that alongside educating people on why it’s wrong.

 

[Sheando]

I mean, someone still had to make the art, official art or not. But I see your point.

If the majority opinion is that Gen AI is banned across the board, majority rules. I accept this. However, personally, I think members reporting other members for using Gen AI for avatars/sigs is a type of policing I don't like seeing in my communities. I think it makes sense for events. I don't think it makes sense for avatars/sigs.

Official art is deliberately created to be promotional. Nintendo WANTS you to use and spread these images because they are official content designed to make their games as mainstream as possible. Nintendo is not hoping that you will never mention Super Mario Sunshine or spread images related to the game that they themselves have already made publicly available. Nintendo is a company seeking to make money; they benefit when you, via your avatar, remind me that piantas exist, and by doing so, remind me that Nintendo exists, that I played Super Mario Sunshine in elementary school, that I feel nostalgia for Nintendo, that I feel loyalty to the brand, etc. And most importantly, the artist who designed your avatar was paid for making that art by Nintendo and agreed to Nintendo's use of the images for public promotion, unless Nintendo themselves obtained the art by illegal means such as fraudulent contracts or refusal to pay artists after the fact.

A GenAI "art maker" that was trained on random DeviantArt posts is the complete opposite of this. Unlike the creator of the image in your avatar, the artists who drew that art did not consent to the use of their art and were not paid for their art. GenAI developers have stated outright that it would not be possible to have Generative AI as we know it now without mass scale art theft (and theft of other things, like text)--this argument was intended to frame ethical behavior as impossible and unrealistic, as if stealing becomes okay as long as it allows new technology to exist. A video game studio who insisted that they had to copy assets from other artists and video games because they couldn't afford to actually pay anyone would be legally liable and could be charged in court.

It's also worth mentioning that the use of Generative AI provides additional money, power, and cultural resources to the small number of wealthy, corrupt men who are already trying to shoehorn GenAI into everything, expecting to do illegal and unethical things with no repercussions. It's true that stealing someone's Sonic the Hedgehog pixel art from a defunct forum would also be wrong for me to do, but it does not directly put more money in the pockets of evil billionaires who are deliberately destroying the planet and its inhabitants, nor does it confer additional influence on them in the form of interest and engagement with their product.

Finally, while I certainly think that art theft is disgusting and I am appalled for all the artists, writers, and anyone else who has has their time and effort and creative energy leeched by this monstrosity, art theft is by no means the only, or even the primary, objection to Generative AI. Our U.S. president recently scaled back environmental and health regulations specifically to allow for the rapid expansion of Generative AI to benefit other national and global billionaires who want this technology solidified into our government's infrastructure. These regulations existed to try to ensure clean water for cities, the preservation of large swaths of nationally protected land, and the protection of U.S. residents (especially those in low-income areas, who are disproportionately more likely to be people of color) from horrors like sharply increased cancer risk, brain injuries, and lung disease. Generative AI is literally siphoning water away from already-exploited communities and producing mass amounts of destructive "runoff" in the form of damage to surrounding land, water, animals, and breathable air. That's why I'm in favor of banning it on TBT.

 

[-Lumi-]

I would like to also add my voice into the ring of people who would prefer to see AI art simply banned. I see no reason why we should entertain having AI art on the website. It's harmful to artists and the creation of AI is harmful to the environment.

 

[Gabby]

Official art is deliberately created to be promotional. Nintendo WANTS you to use and spread these images because they are official content designed to make their games as mainstream as possible. Nintendo is not hoping that you will never mention Super Mario Sunshine or spread images related to the game that they themselves have already made publicly available. Nintendo is a company seeking to make money; they benefit when you, via your avatar, remind me that piantas exist, and by doing so, remind me that Nintendo exists, that I played Super Mario Sunshine in elementary school, that I feel nostalgia for Nintendo, that I feel loyalty to the brand, etc. And most importantly, the artist who designed your avatar was paid for making that art by Nintendo and agreed to Nintendo's use of the images for public promotion, unless Nintendo themselves obtained the art by illegal means such as fraudulent contracts or refusal to pay artists after the fact.

A GenAI "art maker" that was trained on random DeviantArt posts is the complete opposite of this. Unlike the creator of the image in your avatar, the artists who drew that art did not consent to the use of their art and were not paid for their art. GenAI developers have stated outright that it would not be possible to have Generative AI as we know it now without mass scale art theft (and theft of other things, like text)--this argument was intended to frame ethical behavior as impossible and unrealistic, as if stealing becomes okay as long as it allows new technology to exist. A video game studio who insisted that they had to copy assets from other artists and video games because they couldn't afford to actually pay anyone would be legally liable and could be charged in court.

It's also worth mentioning that the use of Generative AI provides additional money, power, and cultural resources to the small number of wealthy, corrupt men who are already trying to shoehorn GenAI into everything, expecting to do illegal and unethical things with no repercussions. It's true that stealing someone's Sonic the Hedgehog pixel art from a defunct forum would also be wrong for me to do, but it does not directly put more money in the pockets of evil billionaires who are deliberately destroying the planet and its inhabitants, nor does it confer additional influence on them in the form of interest and engagement with their product.

Finally, while I certainly think that art theft is disgusting and I am appalled for all the artists, writers, and anyone else who has has their time and effort and creative energy leeched by this monstrosity, art theft is by no means the only, or even the primary, objection to Generative AI. Our U.S. president recently scaled back environmental and health regulations specifically to allow for the rapid expansion of Generative AI to benefit other national and global billionaires who want this technology solidified into our government's infrastructure. These regulations existed to try to ensure clean water for cities, the preservation of large swaths of nationally protected land, and the protection of U.S. residents (especially those in low-income areas, who are disproportionately more likely to be people of color) from horrors like sharply increased cancer risk, brain injuries, and lung disease. Generative AI is literally siphoning water away from already-exploited communities and producing mass amounts of destructive "runoff" in the form of damage to surrounding land, water, animals, and breathable air. That's why I'm in favor of banning it on TBT.

I appreciate your response and I think you make some good points. I still feel that users reporting users for Gen AI in their avatars and signatures is a cop-like and weird behavior, regardless of the objections to Gen AI. I don't use Gen AI. I agree largely with your points. My point around stealing my avatar from google images is that I foresee Gen AI being used similarly to how google images is used today. I feel my posts have been construed into people interpreting me as some pro-Gen AI user when in actuality, I don't use Gen AI and don't really care to. I don't think I've ever really made the point that Gen AI is a good thing for the world or that I'm for its use - my points have been from the perspective of being realistic about it being in the world. I'm also saying that I don't like the idea of users reporting other users for personal expression. I do think people will be using Gen AI to express themselves regardless of the issues surrounding it or anyone's personal opinions about it.

I'm pretty outnumbered here and I see that, so, I'm not really going to continue this discussion. I think I've made my point, and the responses to my posts seem to be attempting to educate me around Gen AI, which I appreciate, but I've never said throughout this thread that I'm pro-AI or that it is a good addition to the world. My official opinion on Gen AI on TBT is that it shouldn't be used for events or contests, but should be fine for avatars and signatures. This is the last I'm going to speak on this. Thanks.

 

[GooseyGuos]

@Yoshi155 here is thread my friend! You can be find my postings on this one. I do not think it is easy enough for me to reply to this questions you be ask me in the mail message of private. My language is make a struggle and I already say it here if you say so much you most want to know it.

I have no other to say on this. I agree with this Gabby and that is all. I cannot make a discuss of this in third language, please try make it understand my friend.

View attachment 624268
Edit the post and delete everything up until “I have no other to say on this.”

What edit ?

 

[oath2order]

Clarifying, I am not a fan of generative AI art, but I had a thought: What happens if Nintendo starts using Generative AI for promo material?

 

[pawpatrolbab]

Just hopping in here with my input as a commercial artist. But when you are doing commercial work, you are compensated for said work. So when you sign your contract & rights away the company is under no obligation to credit you - and you are paid based on this fact. So there’s a difference between using say for example and official piece of Mario artwork and not providing credit, and saving someone’s Mario fanart and not providing credit

I mean, someone still had to make the art, official art or not. But I see your point.

If the majority opinion is that Gen AI is banned across the board, majority rules. I accept this. However, personally, I think members reporting other members for using Gen AI for avatars/sigs is a type of policing I don't like seeing in my communities. I think it makes sense for events. I don't think it makes sense for avatars/sigs.

 

[Mistreil]

Hi! I know I said I'd post by today, but I ended up losing like 3 days of my week to being mostly bedridden/asleep so I'm sort of scrambling to get things in order I'll be back by Monday for sure, though! Super sorry for the delays in getting a response out.

(I'm fine now, for the record! It was just weird debilitating pain for a few days, and lots of fatigue. I still have no idea what that was about, but I'm doing much better!)