Thoughts on Brexit (Britain leaving the EU)?

[King Dorado]

I'm surprised a majority vote is all i takes to leave the EU-- I would have thought in forming the EU that the member nations would have required something higher to leave once you had joined, like 60% or 2/3 of the vote or something. If it only requires majority, then i'm a bit surprised this hasn't happened before with the UK or another nation. (perhaps there was some mandatory post-creation period where the members could not hold such a referendum?)

could the UK turn around and have a new referendum asking the voters to join or re-join the EU??

 

[Nightmares]

I heard people are backtracking and actually are calling for another referendum

 

[oath2order]

That's how democracy works, though. Out of the people who voted, a majority, even though just by a fraction, wanted to leave. And our government have to respect the people's decision. I voted remain and I'm disappointed, but it's done now and I think it's stupid to try again just because we didn't get the results we wanted.

I think stuff like this should be a 2/3 majority, not a simple majority.

 

[Koden]

As I do not live in Europe and thus can't have a say in this, enjoy a stupid picture.

 

[LambdaDelta]

As I do not live in Europe and thus can't have a say in this, enjoy a stupid picture.

View attachment 176058

my favorite thing was I first saw this because of a friend directly involved in this.

 

[Reindeer]

I'm surprised a majority vote is all i takes to leave the EU-- I would have thought in forming the EU that the member nations would have required something higher to leave once you had joined, like 60% or 2/3 of the vote or something. If it only requires majority, then i'm a bit surprised this hasn't happened before with the UK or another nation. (perhaps there was some mandatory post-creation period where the members could not hold such a referendum?)

could the UK turn around and have a new referendum asking the voters to join or re-join the EU??

It depends on the country's own legislation. In the Netherlands we wouldn't be able to vote on whether or not we should remain in the EU or leave, as we can't have a referendum on laws that are already in effect. The UK doesn't have such a specific referendum law in place. Also, the Brexit referendum had no criteria to it as far as I'm aware, which is why a nearly 52% majority for Brexit at 72% voter turnout is what's leading to the UK leaving the EU.

The latter is also one of the main reasons that the petition that has now been signed over 3 million times won't lead to a second referendum. As the vote on Thursday had no specific criteria, it could've been a 30% voter turnout with a 51% majority for Brexit and it would have had the same effects. Doing another referendum vote and changing it so that there's actual criteria in place to stunt the Leave camp just points to being a sore loser, and wanting to get a specific result to uphold the status quo.

Let's hope that someone in the UK governments finds a way to block Brexit though.

 

[xenoblade]

although i am not british, or european even, i do think that britain should've stayed in the EU. already, the world can see some of the effects of the leave, even though actually leaving is said to be a rather tedious process? the value of the pound has changed, prices in britain have changed, the prime minister leaving, etc. it's all counting towards a possible chain reaction that could eventually lead to the EU's demise, and with the possibility of donald trump being the next president of the u.s., things don't seem to be looking so bright for our upcoming generation.

 

[Bowie]

I have signed a petition requesting a second referendum (going against the wishes of an elder, I must admit). I won't post it here in case it's not allowed, but it's pretty easy to find.

 

[LambdaDelta]

although i am not british, or european even, i do think that britain should've stayed in the EU. already, the world can see some of the effects of the leave, even though actually leaving is said to be a rather tedious process— the value of the pound has changed, prices in britain have changed, the prime minister leaving, etc. it's all counting towards a possible chain reaction that could eventually lead to the EU's demise, and with the possibility of donald trump being the next president of the u.s., things don't seem to be looking so bright for our upcoming generation.

well baby boomers and such have already screwed over the modern generations in plenty of ways, so what's a little complete collapse of a civil western society before they finally **** off and die?

 

[LambdaDelta]

I have signed a petition requesting a second referendum (going against the wishes of an elder, I must admit). I won't post it here in case it's not allowed, but it's pretty easy to find.

p sure it's been posted here already, if its the same one I'm thinking of

 

[Red Cat]

I can understand why people would be upset with the outcome of the vote, but I don't see anything wrong with the process. 52% voting to leave is not an overwhelming majority, but it's still bigger than the 48% that the remain side got. All the remain side had to do was convince a simple majority to stay in the EU. The citizens of the U.K. didn't need to overwhelmingly love the EU, there just had to be enough support for it that it was more popular than unpopular. The remain side failed simple as that.

It should be a simple majority vote and not a 60% or 2/3 or whatever vote because being in the EU is not anywhere close to being a human right. It's a decision that the people of each country get to choose whether it is better for their country to be in or out. Being able to move freely between sovereign countries is a privilege not a right; and the people voted to take away that privilege from people in other EU countries in exchange for losing the privilege to freely travel to other EU countries. Like it or not, that's a completely fair choice for people to make.

And as always, abstaining from voting means you don't care whether you actually care or not. If the people who skipped out on voting really wanted to remain, they should have submitted a ballot.

 

[oath2order]

I can understand why people would be upset with the outcome of the vote, but I don't see anything wrong with the process. 52% voting to leave is not an overwhelming majority, but it's still bigger than the 48% that the remain side got. All the remain side had to do was convince a simple majority to stay in the EU. The citizens of the U.K. didn't need to overwhelmingly love the EU, there just had to be enough support for it that it was more popular than unpopular. The remain side failed simple as that.

It should be a simple majority vote and not a 60% or 2/3 or whatever vote because being in the EU is not anywhere close to being a human right. It's a decision that the people of each country get to choose whether it is better for their country to be in or out. Being able to move freely between sovereign countries is a privilege not a right; and the people voted to take away that privilege from people in other EU countries in exchange for losing the privilege to freely travel to other EU countries. Like it or not, that's a completely fair choice for people to make.

And as always, abstaining from voting means you don't care whether you actually care or not. If the people who skipped out on voting really wanted to remain, they should have submitted a ballot.

Okay but this is determining the future of the country for the next 20 years, minimum. That should have a 2/3 majority.

**** simple majorities for **** like this.

 

[Red Cat]

Okay but this is determining the future of the country for the next 20 years, minimum. That should have a 2/3 majority.

**** simple majorities for **** like this.

You could say almost any law could affect a country for the next 20, 50, or 100 years. Having a 2/3 majority requirement just delays progress because it is almost impossible to get 66.6% of millions of people to agree on a issue. If the U.K. were never a part of the EU and were voting to become a part of it, then would you support a 2/3 majority requirement? Of course people are in favor of 2/3 requirements when they prefer the status quo because they only need a small minority to keep it that way. That's exactly why Brexit needed to be a simple majority vote. Neither side should have a handicap for such an important decision.

 

[oath2order]

Except it's such an important decision that there SHOULD be a handicap to make it a 2/3 majority wtf.

 

[LambdaDelta]

not to mention this isn't a decision that just affects the UK populace (which is ALREADY bad enough to be put to a simple majority vote for), but the entire world. even if unquestionably the UK will have the full brunt of the effect, treating as otherwise is just extremely narrow-minded and selfish

which is just even more reason why simple majority is absolute bull**** here

to say nothing of voting itself being the final word on the matter

 

[oath2order]

not to mention this isn't a decision that just affects the UK populace (which is ALREADY bad enough to be put to a simple majority vote for), but the entire world. even if unquestionably the UK will have the full brunt of the effect, treating as otherwise is just extremely narrow-minded and selfish

which is just even more reason why simple majority is absolute bull**** here

to say nothing of voting itself being the final word on the matter

Exactly. **** like gay marriage, abortion, social issues in relation to your own country, yeah, I'm fine with that being a simple majority. But when it comes to a referendum on whether your country stays in a global trade deal that whether or not staying in or not affects hundreds of millions of people, yeah, that needs a little more than a simple majority.

 

[xenoblade]

the thing about brexit was that if they had lowered the voting age (i'm guessing it's around 18 or 21), there would've been a better chance for britain to stay in the EU if the young voters were educated about the topic and knew the effects of their vote. the upcoming generation will have to deal with this, while the older population (most of which i imagine have voted to leave) get to leave the earth soon after britain truly leaves the EU. it's a confusing thing, leaving the future of a new generation to an older one with possibly outdated views on the world.

 

[LambdaDelta]

Exactly. **** like gay marriage, abortion, social issues in relation to your own country, yeah, I'm fine with that being a simple majority.

tbh I'd even argue stuff like this shouldn't be. If only because the arguments against more often than not tend to be the result of religious and/or homophobic bigotry, which is still running around far too rampantly.


But between them the the current situation, they are still endlessly "better". If only because of being localized in who they can potentially end up screwing over.

 

[Red Cat]

But when it comes to a referendum on whether your country stays in a global trade deal that whether or not staying in or not affects hundreds of millions of people, yeah, that needs a little more than a simple majority.

Why should the people of the U.K. give a s*** what the rest of the world wants? It's their country and they have the right to exit the EU if they think it's in their best interests. I know as an American that we usually don't care about what the rest of the world thinks when we make a decision, so I'm kind of happy to see the British say "F*** off!" to the rest of the world who wanted them to stay.

 

[Reindeer]

In today's debate, David Cameron said there won't be a second referendum about the UK leaving the EU (source), as expected.
The article also mentions some of his other statements, like his condemning of racist and anti-migrant behavior. I watched some of the debate earlier, and regarding that he said (paraphrasing) "the UK has received and hosted many refugees and immigrants, and will continue to do so even after the Brexit". I hope the anti-migrant voters realize that as a result of the Brexit, there's a possibility that immigration might actually rise. They filled the hole by digging a possibly bigger one.