The Official Feedback Thread

[skarmoury]

But I cannot leave slander uncorrected.

Genuinely, I'm really sorry for my bad wording. I realized I had unintentionally referenced you when I said "someone close to 28" instead of vaguely saying "a 28 year old". It wasn't my intention to re-mention you as I was aware of your age now and when you posted. That was a mistake on the wording on my part and I'm truly sorry. I'll edit my post accordingly and send out my apologies on that post.

I was referencing the notion that it was bad to criticize an age gap. The issue started because with what little info we had, we thought someone who was old was dating an 18-year-old. Now that we know that's not the case I'm not here to put your name in the spotlight again Chris, but to let people know that criticizing an age gap is valid if one party is an extreme young adult (18-19) and the other party is in their late 20s or older.

Regardless, I am not comfortable with the thought that this is an acceptable relationship to certain members of this site. I hope you understand my sentiments.

Again, I'm sorry for the slander.

 

[Chris]

Genuinely, I'm really sorry for my bad wording. I realized I had unintentionally referenced you when I said "someone close to 28" instead of vaguely saying "a 28 year old". It wasn't my intention to re-mention you as I was aware of your age now and when you posted. That was a mistake on the wording on my part and I'm truly sorry. I'll edit my post accordingly and send out my apologies on that post.

I was referencing the notion that it was bad to criticize an age gap. The issue started because with what little info we had, we thought someone who was old was dating an 18-year-old. Now that we know that's not the case I'm not here to put your name in the spotlight again Chris, but to let people know that criticizing an age gap is valid if one party is an extreme young adult (18-19) and the other party is in their late 20s or older.

Regardless, I am not comfortable with the thought that this is an acceptable relationship to certain members of this site. I hope you understand my sentiments.

Again, I'm sorry for the slander.

I don't have the words to properly express it right now, but I appreciate your response. Thank you.

 

[skarmoury]

If someone expresses that they date consenting adults of any age, that means consenting adults.

Thank you for the clarifications. I've also put out a clarification that it wasn't my intent to antagonize the staff member — I had really bad wording there, so definitely my mistake — I did just want to know whether you were defending an age gap like 18 and 28 years old since that was the issue being brought up before the clarification on the ages.

But thank you for clarifying that you have no issues with older people dating anyone in the consenting age. I can see your beliefs and judge your character accordingly, and frankly it's still not something I'm comfortable with.

Clarifications have been made repeatedly. The original postings were very clear as well - consenting adults. But some continue to ignore these things to somehow make the person out to be an awful sort, the worst. It isn't factual, and isn't honest.

I see. Well I'm not someone who ignores facts and I can very much apologize for mistakes and lapses in judgement when I know I've been wrong. I try my best to understand and digest the posts made in this feeback thread. I hope you can say the same to yourself.

 

[-Mars-]

I’m guessing Dunquixote is afraid to contribute in more detail because people get annoyed whatever is said in this thread and honestly, it’s scary. I don’t want to share my thoughts because I’m not in a place to know how to react when a load of people disagree with me at once. But it’s hard to ignore what’s going on here when it affects the forum so much and people’s friends are leaving etc.

If Dunquixote has a problem that she would like staff to address and she does not want anyone to reply to her in this discussion thread then she could've said that in a CTS staff thread if she wanted to. If she gets no replies that her situation is not going to be addressed I wouldn't be surprised because this is something we have discussed in this thread before that some people are upset they did not have staff reply to them in CTS threads! Dunquixote is allowed to say whatever she wants in this thread but she shouldn't be surprised when people try and ask her questions or discuss things with her in a public discussion thread.

Also Dun didn’t call anyone a bully, she said there was bullying. It’s not quite the same thing.

Soooo bullying can exist without there being any bullies that are causing behavior people don't like in the first place? You guys clearly have an issue with the way we talk and then you try and back out and say "no no no! I didn't call you a bully!"

But she doesn’t want this to escalate and she wasn’t trying to cause an argument, I’m pretty sure she’s gone on hiatus because of the many negative responses to her post (because that’s hard to handle!!) so maybe we should leave her alone.

No I am not arguing with Dunquixote, I merely tried to ask her who she is referring to that is being "overly aggressive" and a "bully" according to her because clearly someone or some people in this thread are if she says so! I asked Dunquixote a question and she is in no way obligated to talk to me and answer my question, I seriously was expecting her to ignore me to begin with but instead of saying "I do not wish to participate in this discussion any further" she says to me "Read through the thread and figure it out!" wow so apparently I'm suppose to instinctively know who these people are! What if I get it wrong? I'm not Dunquixote and I can't see from her point of view! There's at least two people besides myself who thought what Dunquixote said to me was condescending, do you guys think about how I feel when Dunquixote said that to me? I seriously would've dropped the subject if she didn't need to talk like that to me.

Yeah I am leaving Dunquixote alone, I stopped quoting her and asking her questions after she said she wouldn't reply any further after I was instructed to "figure it out" I'm still going to address her reply in some way because I have a right to clarify myself as this is a discussion thread, I didn't quote Dunquixote out of respect for her but then Jeremy and Betsy are quoting me for some reason(and now you!) and that is the only reason I'm bringing Dunquixote's name into this because I am trying to explain to them(mostly Betsy) did you know that if you guys didn't quote me I would've stopped talking about Dunquixote like you want me to and dropped the subject? You guys are bringing it back up by involving yourselves in conversations that you weren't originally part of. I can do whatever Dunquixote wants, I can even leave this forum if that pleases her, god forbid I ever ask her a question.

 

[BetsySundrop]

I did just want to know whether you were defending an age gap like 18 and 28 years old since that was the issue being brought up before the clarification on the ages.

When i entered the conversation, these were some things i was seeing and felt were unfair.

Spoiler

It was the unfair/dishonest suggestion/misrepresentation of minor involvement that motivated me to respond.

As far as a 10 year age gap? No idea. Depends on the ages, the people, the relationship. I can't make those judgements for other relationships. I feel that would be unfair of me.

 

[Lancelot]

When i entered the conversation, these were some things i was seeing and felt were unfair.

Spoiler

View attachment 623084


View attachment 623085

It was the unfair/dishonest suggestion/misrepresentation of minor involvement that motivated me to respond.

As far as a 10 year age gap? No idea. Depends on the ages, the people, the relationship. I can't make those judgements for other relationships. I feel that would be unfair of me.

I don’t want to speak for Mars, but the last part of that feels like miscommunication somewhere along the way. I know you said when you used the word “predatory” you were referring to minors, but I think a lot of people (at least I am) have been using it to mean exploitative or sexually inappropriate.

I know Chris has clarified they didn’t date a minor but some of their comments, like the one about chasing younger people then discarding them, WERE predatory and completely inappropriate.

I’m happy Chris has apologised and is said they’re relearning how to word stuff in a more digestible manner - but I also don’t think someone having to relearn not to make comments that can be perceived THAT badly should currently be a staff member until they have resolved the issue.

 

[BetsySundrop]

I know you said when you used the word “predatory” you were referring to minors, but I think a lot of people (at least I am) have been using to mean exploitative or sexually inappropriate.

I specifically put in my post that it was in regards to the minor claim.

 

[skarmoury]

the unfair/dishonest suggestion/misrepresentation of minor involvement

May you expound on this?

 

[Selky]

• Review and re-implementation of site code of conduct and large scale announcement with acknowledgement of all staff and members. Feature could prompt at log in for all to acknowledge or at least be an announcement found on main page. Going forward all have no excuses to heed these rules and likewise for staff to not be implementing correct response to them for themselves and members.
• Review and re-implementation of how site offenses are responded to. Levels of offenses with appropriate levels of consequence. Warnings and times for them to fall off. A mod or site owner is absolutely to be held to a high standard. They are people, yes, but that is why most site moderators, if wanting to participate on a more lax level, have alternative accounts with no identifying features. A moderator discussing sexualized content or cotent harmful to minors on a forum geared from a game that is known to be child friendly is not okay regardless of topic. Nintendo itself is strict in stance on this and would result in online play removals/bans.
  If I can have a warning permanently on my account for having posted a response with a gif (under the posts of meaning supposedly rule) then a moderator doing the former should have had some sort of consequence.
  This won't be a quick feat but a chart should be made up of category of offenses and in each category the levels of consequence. For example; lets say one category is Post Quality. A sub category for that lets say is "low content" responses (meaning the lol or gif only) then lets go into levels...level 1 (first time offense) is a warning and maybe lets say after 3 months of continued good posting behavior that warning falls off. Another category obviously would be offensive content (sexual, racist, xenophobic, etc) which should immedietely go into levels of bans.
• Staff in prior questionable behavior should be addressed, the offenses they did should fall in line with the set of rules covered and the chart of correction plus I would add probably some added time if temporary bans for the delay in addressing when behaviors actually occured.
• A consideration for new staff that exemplifies the code of conduct should be reviewed and sought out if staff would be hindered by any losses temporarily while other staff goes through whatever violations found. At a minimum, these staff members should have warnings applied to their account and the next violation should have to carry both the weight of the prior offenses with any new.

These are just my ideas from what I'm seeing and taking in from both sides...those are are understandably upset from no accountability of staff and those whom are concerned that calling for action means saying goodbye to those staff members completely (which I don't think that's what anyone is saying from what I'm reading).

I don't have all the details of what occurred here (I don't know the diversity topic being mentioned to gauge the encounter) but from what I have been able to grasp from screenshots etc; it does sound like some major reform is needed for the forum and community if it is to continue and flourish. Even I am less than impressed by staff response thus far so I can only imagine how others have been feeling that have witnessed any issues when they occurred and were directly affected (which sounds like years based on all posts).
I understand wanting to make sure staff responses are correct but staff not responding timely is only hurting the site and community further and a major part of the hurt that I think you're seeing flooding in.
Staff absolutely can change but staff also needs to be accountable. It's not fair for any other person that went through a violation whether big or small. Apologies should be given but accountability and willingness to serve that should also be shown; otherwise it's a lack of integrity and no weight can be given moving forward to claims of serving better. That doesn't mean you like staff members any less or don't want to see them in the forum going forward; it just means what it is which is that we are all under the same standards. There's no indication that these titles can't be given back to the staff but a period of shown conduct should occur first and foremost to reimplementing those titles.

As it stands from what I've been reading; I would not allow my children to use this site which is sad because my memories of this community were pretty high and one of the things I love about AC communities in seeing parents with their children being active together. However, I can also say in my years on here (some moments more active than others) that I have seen inconsistencies in site moderation and attention/interventions to topics that are toxic and harmful. This is why transparency needs to be given on what such violations are and what the level of those violations will entail for all.
Otherwise, I think what you are going to find is the core of this community is going to move to a community discord. As that would be my best recommendation for members whom don't feel adequate improvements are being made or communicated and the route I would go.

 

[BetsySundrop]

May you expound on this?

I don't want to clog the thread with repetition too much; I've put this in previous posts, so maybe look at those? Not intending any offense, i just really don't want to keep posting the same thing.

 

[Chris]

I know Chris has clarified they didn’t date a minor but some of their comments, like the one about chasing younger people then discarding them, WERE predatory and completely inappropriate

Again, feel like I have to post to clarify misrepresentation when I want to leave the site.

I never said this. You are merging three different posts to create a new meaning.

- one was about age gaps (clarified: I related to people in the same stage of life as me).
- one was about my tendency to avoid people after intimacy (clarified: I'm asexual and was repulsed after intimacy).
- one was a comparison to a typical 15yo boy in chasing girls (no substance).

I don't appreciate people trying to invent a narrative out of unrelated posts.

 

[LadyDestani]

I'd like to address some things quickly. I want to note that this response is being written on the fly (while I'm in work meetings), so I apologize in advance if anything is poorly worded and will clarify/correct my statements as needed. But more silence seems to be the worse option at the moment versus potentially saying things the wrong way.

First of all, I'll confirm that daringred_ did not report the banned member. Not all reports are made by the people involved in a conversation. In fact, it's very rare from what I've seen. Reports often come from third parties who believe that something might be a rule violation or who feel uncomfortable themselves after witnessing the exchange. It's important to remember that anything posted publicly has the ability to impact anyone who reads it, not just the person the comment was directed towards.

Also, not all warnings come from a report. If a staff member spots a rule violation, we will act regardless of whether a report has been made. We know there are people who don't report things for a variety of reasons.

Regardless of how the post came to our attention, we review it thoroughly. We confer with each other if it's more complex. We reach out to the reporter if we think maybe we're misinterpreting something. We recuse ourselves if we feel too strongly about the subject and know we can't view it objectively, so the staff members making the decisions are the ones with the least bias. (I can't in good conscience claim there is no bias because we all have bias. Sometimes it's negative, sometimes it's positive, but it's always there.)

We are planning to go into more detail about a lot of things, including some of our processes. I realize there are concerns about how long it's taking to see responses that we promised were coming and I completely understand that concern. I feel terrible myself for promising rosetti a response and not getting around to it yet. I have a draft started, but there were a lot of points in just that one post I wanted to respond to. In hindsight, I realize I don't have to wait to post everything at the same time. I can start posting little by little as I complete each segment.

To give some explanations for the staff response delays in general, aside from real life priorities and the day-to-day forum responsibilities, a lot of conversations are happening behind-the-scenes to make sure we take the most impactful actions we can commit to and ensure we are communicating with care and purpose. This is not intended to be an excuse, just an explanation because we want you to know that we're not ignoring you or shirking any of the commitments we've already made.

The conversation has been moving very quickly and is long past the point where I started this now, but I hope my response still has some value.

 

[Blink.]

It is so ironic that this feedback thread became a gateway for problematic users/staff, and the ones giving feedback are getting banned/shadow-edited/dismissed/belittled. This thread that provided pages upon pages of context, plus a simple Google Doc was more than enough to summarize the situation.

Yet, for some awful reason, the discussion continues after months of questions and concerns, and users are still defending problematic staff/users because "friends are leaving" or "they're disagreeing with me and that's rude." This is dismissive and ignorant. There has been little to no progress in weeks. Where is the clarification to seliph's ban, the answers to concerns, the apologies, some real effort of taking the time to reflect? Why do you think there are so many voices right now who are vying for some kind of relief? And I understand that situations are often more nuanced, and we'll never fully understand the tone of text on our screens, but it is solely up to you to clarify that it is not said with malice.

Unfortunately, we are left with more problems because there are users out there who are hurt by words on a screen and decide to hide behind authority or UWU-ified text. What happened to asking for clarity on a situation? What happened to clearing up miscommunication? It is a discussion. Discuss. Instead, some are just disgusted by the behavior of those willing to discuss their grievances to the staff. It's still very appalling that whilst one "side" has chosen to call the other rude, we can't question why it's acceptable for another "mob" to mass report and ban seliph out of the forum.

Speaking of which, why is that acceptable? Jeremy's bias and disdain for seliph is public. I don't understand how "rude behavior" equates to a one-year ban. I've read the receipts. You don't have to have Staff-colored glasses to read "rude and unnecessary" plastered on the doc. It's interesting that merely disagreeing or sharing your constructive criticism can be viewed as "Harassment." It's even less assuring that the forum allows racism, homophobia, transphobia, and bigotry from users who haven't changed in the last 5 years I've lurked the forum. I would love clarification on how this is fine.

For people who are sensitive to confrontation, I kindly ask that you respect your sensitivities and maybe assess the situation before diving into a public discussion, and understand that disagreements are bound to happen on a public forum. It is not rude for others to opine on your beliefs, unless of course, it has actual rude statements like "eat dirt" or whatever. However, it is ignorant and immature to think that people disagreeing with you is a mob out to get you. You do not need to insert yourself into a situation that makes you uncomfortable. Why would you do this if you are sensitive? Everyone will have opinions, it will not always cater to your world.

But whatever, this is probably a nothing burger of its own.
it is a forum for discussion. Period. Point blank.

 

[Lancelot]

Again, feel like I have to post to clarify misrepresentation when I want to leave the site.

I never said this. You are merging three different posts to create a new meaning.

- one was about age gaps (clarified: I related to people in the same stage of life as me).
- one was about my tendency to avoid people after intimacy (clarified: I'm asexual and was repulsed after intimacy).
- one was a comparison to a typical 15yo boy in chasing girls (no substance).

I don't appreciate people trying to invent a narrative out of unrelated posts.

My apologies, I thought they were one post. Misrespresentation wasn't my intention so sorry for that.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant by them but I sort of feel like the first 2 relate to each other and I wasn't too far off the mark. If you were dating people younger than you who "come across younger than that", and then being repulsed by them after intimacy, I hope you can understand where my misunderstanding was coming from. I worded it wrong, yes, but to me they still come across as predatory. Again I apologise for combining the two points/not being clearer.

 

[Suguri]

I haven't been active here lately, but I really wanted to post on this thread....

I won't comment much about this recent situation because people have expressed it better than I can; I will just say that I hope the staff can take steps to improve because I was appalled when I read about how they handled certain things in the past. It's one of many reasons why I gave away most of my collectibles and left. I really enjoyed being a part of this community, especially last year. But now that I'm aware of all this, I don't know anymore.

I'm honestly on the fence about this thing, and while I think I have an almost-complete understanding of it, I still can't wrap my mind around it all because I've heard both sides and I see where they are coming from. I just wish TBT becomes a safer place for all Animal Crossing players and the like.

 

[sleepey]

.

 

[Selky]

Again, feel like I have to post to clarify misrepresentation when I want to leave the site.

I never said this. You are merging three different posts to create a new meaning.

- one was about age gaps (clarified: I related to people in the same stage of life as me).
- one was about my tendency to avoid people after intimacy (clarified: I'm asexual and was repulsed after intimacy).
- one was a comparison to a typical 15yo boy in chasing girls (no substance).

I don't appreciate people trying to invent a narrative out of unrelated posts.

I don't see where in the screenshot it relates to not relating to people your age. Even if that's true, that's not what was in that post or it's further edit so it's not relevant to the damage that was done by it. Your post says you're fine with age gaps and go into that for you, personally, you can't do it as a long term relationship and specify going to bed with them.

My marriage is a significant age gap. I met my husband when I was 21.
While I'm not against age gaps (obviously), I do think they should be taken seriously especially on the account of the person older in the relationship; as it's all too common in age gap relationships, for a huge difference in power dynamic to occur and advantages being taken even unaware by the older person simply from large discrepancies in experience/development that comes with age. There just simply weren't ways that I could know myself truly yet at 21 and I'm a whole different person at 32. While my husband wasn't acting in bad faith, he did have a much bigger responsibility to safeguard me in all aspects. Even for a non-"serious" romantic relationship (which really shouldn't be discussed here for the context of this site), a 18 year old is not going to know enough about themselves in the sense to consent rightfully to that type of encounter/lack of relationship...so to advocate to others, whether knowingly or not, to an encounter not prioritizing a relationship but just sexual encounters with just freshly adult individuals or individuals that present younger than they are is problematic.

What bothers me most about your post (assuming, as you said, the person involved was 18 and you 28) is you were essentially describing that the context of a large gap is fine to you for sexual relationships not for a relationship. Your edit to the post stating you've been spared of reading my sex life further adds to the sexual nature of the post. Yes, adults can consent and some people even as they age may be okay with that; but there will be many 18 year olds whom still don't yet know themselves and may come back to find trauma in the those experiences and rightfully will feel let down by the older person whom has the responsibility to look out for them knowing what a developmental time that is since they are older and have had those moments.
To furthermore add the description of what you say about your current relationship at that time and the emphasis on her youngness/ability to present even younger emotionally does sound horrendous. Whether even aware yourself or purposeful of it; it does sound predatory and manipulative.
I would be absolutely fuming for my daughter or my son to be reading those narratives on an animal crossing forum.

You say you keep trying to leave but all I see if you trying to sidestep people's concerns. Even if your reasons were meant to be something else, you can't simply read those posts and not agree the meaning they hold in the context you specifically wrote them and the damage they could have or have done. The fact you're trying so hard to change the image of those posts to me feels like you don't truly understand the inappropriateness of them at all. The only person you can be upset with causing misreprisentation is yourself in posting that. As someone whom had no knowlege of these events initially, it's no wonder to me the upset people feel especially with your continued responses which show lack of growth and understanding.

And I'm writing this out for the people saying "they said consenting adults". There is more to age gap relationships than consenting adults and age gap relationships are known to have widely abusive relationship dynamics. Does it make all of the the relationships wrong; no...but it's not something to post about in the sexualized manner they were or on this forum.

 

[BetsySundrop]

And I'm writing this out for the people saying "they said consenting adults".

That's me!
As one of those people, I think age gaps are up to the people in the relationship, and making assumptions or condemning age gap relationships is unfair. The intention behind the posts has been clarified.

There are people in happy age gap relationships in the forum rn, and just imo, they shouldn't be made to feel condemned or made to feel they need to explain it or hide it because people lean toward viewing it negatively.

You say you keep trying to leave but all I see if you trying to sidestep people's concerns.

Just another perspective - I don't see sidestepping in the posts. I see someone trying to clarify, explain, apologize, all while under the stress of having their posts misrepresented in a disturbing way.

They may want/need a break, but the constant misrep of their character may bring them back to set things straight. I'm just offering a possible perspective, not speaking for anyone.

Perhaps we should instead focus on what people would like to see included in the rules of the forum. Currently, those types of discussions/posts regarding dating/preferences/etc are not specifically against the rules that i could see. Where would people want the line drawn as far as subject matter?

Dating?
Specifics regarding uhm, intimate subjects?
Preferences?
Maybe an age-restricted section of the forum?
(No idea if that would be possible)
Maybe make all of the above off limits for the whole forum?

It might be helpful to try to figure out if people can come to consensus on where they would prefer the line to be drawn for these topics.

I like to keep in mind that people are all very different and have different ideas of what is offensive/ etc. I hope any future rules developed by staff are fairly specific, and not too subjective.

 

[Selky]

That's me!
As one of those people, I think age gaps are up to the people in the relationship, and making assumptions or condemning age gap relationships is unfair. The intention behind the posts has been clarified.

There are people in happy age gap relationships in the forum rn, and just imo, they shouldn't be made to feel condemned or made to feel they need to explain it or hide it because people lean toward viewing it negatively.



Just another perspective - I don't see sidestepping in the posts. I see someone trying to clarify, explain, apologize, all while under the stress of having their posts misrepresented in a disturbing way.

They may want/need a break, but the constant misrep of their character may bring them back to set things straight. I'm just offering a possible perspective, not speaking for anyone.

Perhaps we should instead focus on what people would like to see included in the rules of the forum. Currently, those types of discussions/posts regarding dating/preferences/etc are not specifically against the rules that i could see. Where would people want the line drawn as far as subject matter?

Dating?
Specifics regarding uhm, intimate subjects?
Preferences?
Maybe an age-restricted section of the forum?
(No idea if that would be possible)
Maybe make all of the above off limits for the whole forum?

It might be helpful to try to figure out if people can come to consensus on where they would prefer the line to be drawn for these topics.

I like to keep in mind that people are all very different and have different ideas of what is offensive/ etc. I hope any future rules developed by staff are fairly specific, and not too subjective.

Of course there are, are you in an age gap? As I've stated I'm in an age gap relationship; specifically we have a 16 year difference. However, it would be entirely ignorant to not be in one and not fully acknowledge especially in the early stages the differences of power that can occur and would occur if an active mindset isn't given to the dynamic itself. You would not find me or my husband describing our relationship on enjoying how young I am. It's actually insulting to long term age gap relationships to say that you would be for them as a sexual encounter but not as a "serious" relationship which is what that screenshot states.
No one is asking for an explanation. There just simply isn't a reason to be posting about sexual relationships on a forum that attracts minors period regardless of ages. Just as the older person is in a position of power in a very large age gap relationship where the younger person is just freshly 18 to early 20s...a person in leadership position on a forum that minors are reading their posts is a huge difference in positions of power and susceptibility. Doesn't matter the intentions; one has to be cognizant and take proper actions.

A teenager could read that post and take it as they need to present themselves "young" to be attractive or that an older person that approaches them with those desires and wanting them to not act "older" is okay. That's not okay from any moderator.

Sexualized content is already in the forum rules. There is nothing in this forum that denotes a need to discuss taking people to bed.

 

[-Lumi-]

That's me!
As one of those people, I think age gaps are up to the people in the relationship, and making assumptions or condemning age gap relationships is unfair. The intention behind the posts has been clarified.

There are people in happy age gap relationships in the forum rn, and just imo, they shouldn't be made to feel condemned or made to feel they need to explain it or hide it because people lean toward viewing it negatively.

Hi Betsy,

I don't believe we've ever spoken before. The posts you've made in this thread are my first impression of you and I'm finding this particular take really troubling.

Age gaps are a source of conflict and controversy for a reason. The age of consent varies from place to place but even that is problematic, in my opinion.

To wave away real cries of concern because, "it's legal," is disregarding the harm that can still take place.

An 18 year old is technically an adult, sure. But in most aspects they are not. 18 year olds can still be in high school. 18 year olds aren't even legally allowed to drink in a lot of places. A lot of 18 year olds either still live at home or are just moving out for the very first time.

I say all of this to reiterate how inexperienced with life most 18 year olds are. Couple that with the fact that we know their brains aren't done developing yet - to the point where, as I mentioned earlier, in many places they aren't even trusted to drink responsibly.

Between the ages of 18-21 people don't really have the ability to fully recognize the situation they are placing themselves in when dating or pursuing someone *so much older*. Specifically 8-10 years and up. These are largely still kids - they're still navigating school, first jobs, first apartments or homes.

To say that they would be on equal footing with an adult who has likely been in the workforce for years, lived alone for years, had more experience dating in adult scenarios (ie: not having to abide by a parental curfew) is, quite frankly, ignorant.

Age gaps amongst older adults (late 20s is when a 10+ Gap would be more reasonable) is an entirely different scenario because those parties should reasonably be at similar stages of their life.

Even though Chris is saying he didn't date a minor, he has still acknowledged a pretty big age gap in an area where the maturity gap is quite big. I understand Chris has mentioned his neurodivergence and feeling like he relates better to younger people but that does not actually make him younger. It does not undo the additional years of experience he has had over his much younger partners.

It's troubling for a staff member (a senior one at that) to vocalize these relationships because he is in a position of power. There are children on this site, teenagers, and young adults. To see somebody that they respect talk about these specific age gaps in a positive light *is* harmful because it influences their own views on these things. I am not saying that Chris is the be all end all and he's directly responsible for anybody getting into an age gap relationships but to deny him any responsibility is wrong.

The issue many are still taking is that despite Chris apologizing and claiming to acknowledge that what he's said is wrong... it feels empty. To a lot of people who have been personally affected by age gap relationships (that can still be called predatory even if there weren't minors involved) an apology and an explanation isn't enough and it doesn't have to be enough.

What Chris has done is wrong. It's not a simple oopsie like he forgot an event he was hosting, or didn't award collectibles on time, or other smaller things that would be frustrating but an apology, explanation, and a promise to do better in the future could fix.

He has had repeated inappropriate comments found across the forum. That's a big mistake that any regular member would (hopefully) face real repercussions for and a staff member should too.