The Official Feedback Thread

[-Apples-]

If there genuinely is a person on this site that is going to be blocked by such a large percentage of the userbase that it negatively impacts their ability to participate in events/day to day forum life that's on them. They would have had to be doing something upsetting/problematic to garner that much hatred by that many people.

If they were doing something this bad to where everyone is blocking them, they’ll probably be banned from the forum anyways. While 10 to 20 users may block the same person, that’s not much compared to the 100 or 200 users who are more active, many of them not willing to get on board with the rest on blocking them, if even such conspiracy exists. But if they try to do everything in their power to get the 100 or 200 users to block them, many of them would talk to the staff about it, and they’ll step in and deal with the problem.

 

[sleepey]

I'm sorry you find my comments problematic. I do have more faith in a staff team existing over a community self running about corruption and abuse happening. Others don't have to have the opinion though. That is the plus side about individualism.

My believing in collectivism—which still doesn’t bar individual opinion-making and reasoning—is what makes me think that your presence in this thread is purposefully belligerent and anti-community. I’ve simply clarified the other side, just as you have.

 

[nightglow]

My believing in collectivism—which still doesn’t bar individual opinion-making and reasoning—is what makes me think that your presence in this thread is purposefully belligerent and anti-community. I’ve simply clarified the other side, just as you have.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not being belligerent nor anti community.

 

[LadyDestani]

Hi again!

Just popping in quickly to say that I've caught up on reading all your feedback over the past few pages and there is plenty here that we can address. Regarding the current topic of block vs ignore, I will say that I know there are members who would not want others to know they have them blocked. They've directly told me so in the past. So I feel like any solution needs to allow for multiple options, but I don't know how feasible that is. Everything comes down to add-ons that Jeremy has to either buy or build. This is certainly something we can discuss, though.

@rosetti I really appreciate your post for being both incredibly thorough as well as considerate. I have a few counter points or additional clarifications I can share on some of the items, so I'll start working on that tomorrow. I'm not sure if I'll have it ready to post then, but I'll get it done within a couple of days at most.

I also want to respond to @Lancelot regarding your posts, plus a few others whose names have unfortunately slipped my mind during that lengthy read. That shouldn't take quite as long, so I'll plan on posting that tomorrow.

Finally, I would like to give a brief reminder that this thread is for everyone to share feedback. We understand that very serious topics are being discussed here, but some members don't want to be involved in that. Some just want to dump a quick thought and move on. (i.e. night mode, reactions, etc.) They should be allowed to post their own feedback about any topic of their choosing. And to those who are posting off of the current topic, I want to assure you that your solitary post is still being read and will be taken into consideration the same as every other suggestion.

Thank you all for being willing to have these conversations with us!

 

[Lancelot]

If they were doing something this bad to where everyone is blocking them, they’ll probably be banned from the forum anyways. While 10 to 20 users may block the same person, that’s not much compared to the 100 or 200 users who are more active, many of them not willing to get on board with the rest on blocking them, if even such conspiracy exists. But if they try to do everything in their power to get the 100 or 200 users to block them, many of them would talk to the staff about it, and they’ll step in and deal with the problem.

could you clarify what you mean by this? I’m not trying to be inflammatory but I don’t understand these “what if 100-200 users all blocked one person” scenarios.

I just don’t see any situation where 100 users are grouping up to all block someone, and if over say 2 years 100 people were to block someone so what? That’s their choice.

I also don’t really understand how blocking people will affect events - there’s always late comers to events that have to be added to a team afterwards so surely the staff could just request we message them privately before an event to say “I have this person blocked, please can I not be on a team with them”. Anyone who does so after the event has started could just wait to be swapped with a new comer. The solution would be as simple as moving teams.

The staff have constantly said they want the forum to be a safe space for everyone, but that’s not the case if they’re forced to interact with people they want to block as to not hurt their feelings.

 

[-Apples-]

could you clarify what you mean by this? I’m not trying to be inflammatory but I don’t understand these “what if 100-200 users all blocked one person” scenarios.

I just don’t see any situation where 100 users are grouping up to all block someone, and if over say 2 years 100 people were to block someone so what? That’s their choice.

I picked that number because that’s how many users are usually active on the forum. And yes, it would be difficult to organize an entire community to isolate an entire member like what nightglow was talking about. They probably don’t even have the motivation to start such conspiracy. They just block for their own reasons at any time.

 

[Tude]

There's no way someone who's been offended by someone to the point they had to block them will care about some "egg" more than preserving their peace. I wouldn't block anyone but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate why someone would want to. Blocking is an important function.

 

[nightglow]

I picked that number because that’s how many users are usually active on the forum. And yes, it would be difficult to organize an entire community to isolate an entire member like what nightglow was talking about. They probably don’t even have the motivation to start such conspiracy. They just block for their own reasons at any time.

Yes. It could literally just take misinformation. I mean, I feel like the official feedback back thread alone is a perfect example of something spiraling out of control and jumping to conclusions.
Rumors in pms due to misunderstanding or maliciousness doesn't matter could do it as well.

There is no appeal process unlike there is if staff is running the show since this is being compared to staff banning someone. I'm sure that those who are upset I brought this up wouldn't be happy if a few people showed up into the forums and tried to isolate them, which could happen in this process. It would be unfair.. yet it can easily happen. And there is no appeal process for them. I'm surprised this really isn't being considered. I hope this is considered by readers because this is unfair and will without a doubt cause complaints if done, which can be done, easily which is the point of pointing it out.

And just for the record, again I am not against blocking. Since the details of how it could function is being discussed and was being discussed, I merely said the ability to basically shadow mod is there and can easily be abused.
I do very much agree blocking can block an individual from seeing their profile sending them pms and reacting to their comments. Things like that. Which would be a good way to go. No all posts across the forum. This forum isn't built for that.
However, now that lady destani informed this thread that there are people who don't want others knowing they blocked them (and no it isn't me I could care less) then that isn't gonna be an option to be able to implement. And yes thier feelings about this as members are valid.
--
Oh and also, I don't think the ignore feature should be applied to staff. They are staff, thier messages shouldn't be hidden from "you" as a member. Jmpo I want to throw out there since this is a feedback thread!

 

[Lancelot]

Yes. It could literally just take misinformation. I mean, I feel like the official feedback back thread alone is a perfect example of something spiraling out of control and jumping to conclusions.
Rumors in pms due to misunderstanding or maliciousness doesn't matter could do it as well.

There is no appeal process unlike there is if staff is running the show since this is being compared to staff banning someone. I'm sure that those who are upset I brought this up wouldn't be happy if a few people showed up into the forums and tried to isolate them, which could happen in this process. It would be unfair.. yet it can easily happen. And there is no appeal process for them. I'm surprised this really isn't being considered. I hope this is considered by readers because this is unfair and will without a doubt cause complaints if done, which can be done, easily which is the point of pointing it out.

And just for the record, again I am not against blocking. Since the details of how it could function is being discussed and was being discussed, I merely said the ability to basically shadow mod is there and can easily be abused.
I do very much agree blocking can block an individual from seeing their profile sending them pms and reacting to their comments. Things like that. Which would be a good way to go. No all posts across the forum. This forum isn't built for that.
However, now that lady destani informed this thread that there are people who don't want others knowing they blocked them (and no it isn't me I could care less) then that isn't gonna be an option to be able to implement. And yes thier feelings about this as members are valid.
--
Oh and also, I don't think the ignore feature should be applied to staff. They are staff, thier messages shouldn't be hidden from "you" as a member. Jmpo I want to throw out there since this is a feedback thread!

I’m not sure how many times people have to say it, and of course you’re entitled to disagree but I don’t think anyone is spiralling out of control or jumping to conclusions. Just like your entitled to your opinion on the subjects being discussed so is everyone else and comments like that just seem to minimize anyone else’s opinion tbh.

Could you elaborate on the “people trying to isolate others through blocking” (not your exact words) cause I’m not sure I understand it. I’m not sure I understand why blocking someone who’s been rude to you/making you uncomfortable is shadow modding. If you don’t want to interact with someone you shouldn’t be forced to. If there’s a worry that people are using the block feature to bully people, then that is when they appeal to staff and they step in.

I’m sure some of the problems that have been brought up in this thread could been avoided completely if certain people actually made use of the ignore button.

 

[nightglow]

I’m not sure how many times people have to say it, and of course you’re entitled to disagree but I don’t think anyone is spiralling out of control or jumping to conclusions. Just like your entitled to your opinion on the subjects being discussed so is everyone else and comments like that just seem to minimize anyone else’s opinion tbh.

Could you elaborate on the “people trying to isolate others through blocking” (not your exact words) cause I’m not sure I understand it. I’m not sure I understand why blocking someone who’s been rude to you/making you uncomfortable is shadow modding. If you don’t want to interact with someone you shouldn’t be forced to. If there’s a worry that people are using the block feature to bully people, then that is when they appeal to staff and they step in.

I’m sure some of the problems that have been brought up in this thread could been avoided completely if certain people actually made use of the ignore button.

Earlier in the thread I feel, and I'm sure there are others that feel, some stuff spiraled out of control about various things whether it was about the banned member (note everyone was asking for details on the situation too yet still assuming things) or how old Chris was. I am also sure there are people who think assuming staff was mocking certain members concern in private wasn't a rumor or jumping to a conclusion. None the less, I think it, and similar things are.

Let's say that misinformation happened about a member. Let's say it spread rapidly in pms or off site or on the threads. Doesn't really matter. It can happen and has happened before. Misinformation could be a misunderstanding, refusal to accept the explanation given by the member or a malicious rumor. Doesn't matter.
Multiple people block them. There is no appeal process. If they were just reported and left to the mods, then the mods could discern the issue. Sure the blocked member could message staff about the situation. What if the staff feels what happened was unjust? Yeah I don't think people would like it if they were given a new profile.
People can choose not to interact with them, but setting up extreme walls in a forum that is about community and holds events that reply on member's posts (like a post made is part of an event) defeats the purpose of this forum vs going to Facebook, discords, blue sky, whatever that doesn't run like tbt or have mods that actually try to work with members. Even know after being called ****ty mods or accused as mocking they are still willing to work with members and willing to be vulnerable to criticisms such as trying to look good or simply posting thier plans or apologies are not enough and the bar is moved further. Some people are simply not gonna be happy unless they run the forums themselves and play judge. A block function that allows the ability to isolate a member wasn't even spoken about until I mentioned that it isn't a appropriate to discuss mof vacancy while trying to decide who may or may not fill a vacancy role or who wants to while calling for a step down. Same applies to expanding the staff as mentioned. Because that was starting so I made the post. Any other time if someone mentioned a function of the forum, people would have expressed how they wish the thread to focus on "important issues" which many things are. None the less this thread seems to want to categorize what is important and what isn't. You may think my most recent comments are minimizing others opinions. That isn't my intention, however I would like to prop up others who are obviously going through the CTS thread. And the "important issues" seemed to have been implied to only certain issues that those members have concerns about, like the Chris situation. Yes it is important, but others have opinions on other things and they feel that those too are important even if a member thinks they are not.

But as stated, the forum can do whatever. If the staff wants to implement a block feature that does have the ability to isolate members that is fine. I'm just not on board for it and not sticking around for that because that system, to me, is nonsense. And if the staff decides against it and people feel that strongly about having that because they don't trust staff or see them unfit to be staff, they can go make their own group or find a community that does allow shadow moding.

This thread is long, so it may not be a bad idea to re-read through it all carefully to see what various members have expressed. I am not interested in doing multi quotes here. It's already there.

 

[Flyffel]

The whole blocking discussion is a bit strange to me.

Blocking is a simple quality of life function.

A blocked member isn't harmed in any way by a block or even several blocks. If X blocks Y, it means that X doesn't want any sort of interaction with Y. If blocking didn't exist, X would still be able to simply ignore Y.

Nobody is entitled to the attention of any specific user.

Personally, I and many other users are not really interested in blocking anyone, but that is not the point. It should be a quality of life function for those who wish to use it. And whether a user uses blocking liberally (like to block half of the users) or only in extreme cases, is also up to them. It only affects their own forum experience.

I think that blocking should exist as a quality of life function for those who wish to use it, and it can co-exist with ignoring, creating two tiers of filtering so that members can choose which level of filtering they are more comfortable with.

 

[nightglow]

Maybe.. however in the past on the forum people expressed they wanted what Facebook has, two way block.

 

[Lancelot]

Earlier in the thread I feel, and I'm sure there are others that feel, some stuff spiraled out of control about various things whether it was about the banned member (note everyone was asking for details on the situation too yet still assuming things) or how old Chris was. I am also sure there are people who think assuming staff was mocking certain members concern in private wasn't a rumor or jumping to a conclusion. None the less, I think it, and similar things are.

Let's say that misinformation happened about a member. Let's say it spread rapidly in pms or off site or on the threads. Doesn't really matter. It can happen and has happened before. Misinformation could be a misunderstanding, refusal to accept the explanation given by the member or a malicious rumor. Doesn't matter.
Multiple people block them. There is no appeal process. If they were just reported and left to the mods, then the mods could discern the issue. Sure the blocked member could message staff about the situation. What if the staff feels what happened was unjust? Yeah I don't think people would like it if they were given a new profile.
People can choose not to interact with them, but setting up extreme walls in a forum that is about community and holds events that reply on member's posts (like a post made is part of an event) defeats the purpose of this forum vs going to Facebook, discords, blue sky, whatever that doesn't run like tbt or have mods that actually try to work with members. Even know after being called ****ty mods or accused as mocking they are still willing to work with members and willing to be vulnerable to criticisms such as trying to look good or simply posting thier plans or apologies are not enough and the bar is moved further. Some people are simply not gonna be happy unless they run the forums themselves and play judge. A block function that allows the ability to isolate a member wasn't even spoken about until I mentioned that it isn't a appropriate to discuss mof vacancy while trying to decide who may or may not fill a vacancy role or who wants to while calling for a step down. Same applies to expanding the staff as mentioned. Because that was starting so I made the post. Any other time if someone mentioned a function of the forum, people would have expressed how they wish the thread to focus on "important issues" which many things are. None the less this thread seems to want to categorize what is important and what isn't. You may think my most recent comments are minimizing others opinions. That isn't my intention, however I would like to prop up others who are obviously going through the CTS thread. And the "important issues" seemed to have been implied to only certain issues that those members have concerns about, like the Chris situation. Yes it is important, but others have opinions on other things and they feel that those too are important even if a member thinks they are not.

But as stated, the forum can do whatever. If the staff wants to implement a block feature that does have the ability to isolate members that is fine. I'm just not on board for it and not sticking around for that because that system, to me, is nonsense. And if the staff decides against it and people feel that strongly about having that because they don't trust staff or see them unfit to be staff, they can go make their own group or find a community that does allow shadow moding.

This thread is long, so it may not be a bad idea to re-read through it all carefully to see what various members have expressed. I am not interested in doing multi quotes here. It's already there.

A lot of people have seen the ban message from said user, hence asking staff to clarify/explain why they were banned. A lot of us felt the staffs actions in certain situations weren’t matching what they were saying. I don’t think anyone was making assumptions, they were working with the information they had and aactually asked for more information - which is the opposite of assuming.

I’m still not really sure what you mean, if a rumour is being spread around about someone said person should contact the staff. If multiple people block you after they’ve been gossiping about you I’m also not sure why you would want to interact with them anyway. Especially when there are actual problems happening on the forum that could been solved through blocking people, and not just these “what if” scenarios.

You can’t say the forum is about community but then say “some people won’t be happy unless they run the forums themselves” when they speak up about problems they have. A community should be able to voice their opinions without being accused of trying to take over.

I personally don’t see any problem with people deciding who they interact with, but I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[nightglow]

A lot of people have seen the ban message from said user, hence asking staff to clarify/explain why they were banned. A lot of us felt the staffs actions in certain situations weren’t matching what they were saying. I don’t think anyone was making assumptions, they were working with the information they had and aactually asked for more information - which is the opposite of assuming.

I’m still not really sure what you mean, if a rumour is being spread around about someone said person should contact the staff. If multiple people block you after they’ve been gossiping about you I’m also not sure why you would want to interact with them anyway. Especially when there are actual problems happening on the forum that could been solved through blocking people, and not just these “what if” scenarios.

You can’t say the forum is about community but then say “some people won’t be happy unless they run the forums themselves” when they speak up about problems they have. A community should be able to voice their opinions without being accused of trying to take over.

I personally don’t see any problem with people deciding who they interact with, but I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

As I stated... Some members were jumping to conclusions before they supposedly saw the original message... But never mind what Jeremy said about how deleted posts aren't available to members.

I don't have to accuse anything. It's all they from thier own mouths.

It's fine to agree to disagree I don't have a problem with it. Like I said, I'm not sticking around for what I feel or think is nonsense. I'm sure other people wouldn't either if they see something as nonsense. However, me saying my opinion on the block feature isn't me being hostile as suggested by some regardless of denial.. just like others saying their opinions aren't being hostile either.

As originally stated.. I could have just thrown it into the CTS thread. Maybe then people wouldn't try and say I'm accusing people of stuff or taking sides or whatever they feel they want to type. The OFT belongs to all members.

 

[Selky]

I also just want to note that, while I did post a quick feedback and go, it's not because I don't care about the seriousness of certain topics. It's just simply I don't have the knowledge of the events that transpired over the course of the last few months to adequately be able to voice an opinion. To do so I think would be a detriment to the discussion already given. I do think it's lovely though that the discussion is happening as it seems like one that needs to be addressed for all sides. I hope the best resolution can be found.

To further expand on my comment, night mode is an important aspect to me and would help me be a more active user which I would love to be again. It's hard for me in any capacity to frequent a forum which naturally means a lot of reading without darker options as a result of past brain injuries. Doable but not very comfortable and I like to think there's a lot of others out there like me that would agree. TBT has always had the best community to me compared to other sites that do have the darker options. It could even be a starry celeste theme. Thanks for reading!

 

[a potato]

To further expand on my comment, night mode is an important aspect to me and would help me be a more active user which I would love to be again.

I agree about night mode. It rubbed me the wrong way when night mode was nothing more than an April Fool’s joke that made the site get unbearably bright. It had been such a common feature on other websites at that point that the fact it was nothing but a joke was not very appreciated.

 

[Selky]

I agree about night mode. It rubbed me the wrong way when night mode was nothing more than an April Fool’s joke that made the site get unbearably bright. It had been such a common feature on other websites at that point that the fact it was nothing but a joke was not very appreciated.

Thankfully I missed April fools. I agree that would be quite upsetting to me to have it be a joke. Sad to hear that occurred.
Definitely helps strengthen the argument it could be implemented; since the option has already been made and wouldn't require much more effort to add it to options to select.

 

[Lancelot]

As I stated... Some members were jumping to conclusions before they supposedly saw the original message... But never mind what Jeremy said about how deleted posts aren't available to members.

I don't have to accuse anything. It's all they from thier own mouths.

It's fine to agree to disagree I don't have a problem with it. Like I said, I'm not sticking around for what I feel or think is nonsense. I'm sure other people wouldn't either if they see something as nonsense. However, me saying my opinion on the block feature isn't me being hostile as suggested by some regardless of denial.. just like others saying their opinions aren't being hostile either.

As originally stated.. I could have just thrown it into the CTS thread. Maybe then people wouldn't try and say I'm accusing people of stuff or taking sides or whatever they feel they want to type. The OFT belongs to all members.

Again, words like “supposedly saw the original message” suggests we’re lying about seeing it, or saying it’s “nonsense” over and over is diminishing other people’s opinions on the matter.

Other than me and apple I’m not sure who has replied to you, so I apologise if you think I’m calling you hostile (I’m not sure I said that though) - but you quite literally did accuse people of trying to take over the forum because you don’t agree with their opinion. If anything it’s the opposite, a lot of people love this place and want it to be better.

You’ve said yourself you think it’s nonsense that the thread has escalated to where it is, so let’s not escalate it anymore by putting words in peoples mouths.

I won’t be replying again so as I said, agree to disagree.

 

[a potato]

Thankfully I missed April fools. I agree that would be quite upsetting to me to have it be a joke. Sad to hear that occurred.
Definitely helps strengthen the argument it could be implemented; since the option has already been made and wouldn't require much more effort to add it to options to select.

Looking at the XenForo site, there appears to be quite a few dark themes available—some of them are even free. Hopefully it can be added soon.

 

[sleepey]

Okay, so, I started writing this before I spoke privately with a staff member about Valentine's. In the wake of his disclosure of seliph's reports, I was trying to appeal Jeremy to understand why Chris' behavior, a month prior, was hurtful.

The rest of it doesn't matter, except the following paragraph—I'm putting my heart on the table to assert that I am speaking in good faith.

Around this same time–maybe sometime after—I remember that nightglow and I were talking on Apples' TBT opinion thread. Our (simplified) disagreement was whether or not rhetoric like "I believe in the sanctity of marriage between men and women" should be moderated on TBT, and seliph might have been involved (I don't remember). I felt for a while that I should count my blessings (pronouns field) and drop the hope that TBT would take a stance of intolerance to "the other side is intellectually valid and forums are a place of discussion" when it came to stuff like leaving up implicitly homophobic content.

Where I live now, IRL, statements like that are just not tolerated in public, period. It would be shocking to hear someone say that, and the community would make it known to said person that those attitudes are unequivocally not welcome here. Some call that radical. I find that it's like, the bare minimum of what a safe community for queer people looks like. It is not that I don't respect the intellectual fervor it takes to discuss "all sides" of these topics, nor disrespect you, nightglow, for being able to articulate "the other side" of something back then or in this thread. I just don't think it is appropriate to be hashed out in public where marginalized people can see it. For that, I ask the community forgive me if any of my recent posts are giving animosity. I want to make it known that the lot of us who seem particularly militant aren't fighting for some chronically online ideal community vibe. Community norms like that I described—selective intolerance in the name of true safety of "diversity"—have existed for ages in real places, and they work.

My point: in the name of giving the benefit of the doubt to the lot of us who aren't playing the "respectable middle ground" act in our reasoning, I have explicit feedback in the form of summarizing certain requests. I would like public accountability and safety from staff by way of (1) "reasonable action" about Chris' unfitness for community moderation, (2) transparency about seliph's ban, and (3) taking a firm stance with us that certain types of "intolerance" are necessary for community safety.

I'm done being on my soapbox lalalala I think that's all I should say, pls just believe that ppl like me or seliph are like, well-meaning and an important type of personality to have in a community, actually