The Official Feedback Thread

[nightglow]

I would doubt those who decide to block would have thier feelings hurt from whatever the blocked person says (maybe I'm judging wrong on that?) because they are the ones who decided to block them for whatever reasons they feel justified in doing so.
A bigger concern I would have is a group of people systematically abusing the block system to isolate particular people and essentially trying to mini mod the community because they feel justified to for one reason or another.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm pretty sure every website I'm on has a block feature except TBT and I'll never understand what is so different about TBT that sets it apart from other websites in which we shouldn't have a block feature like everywhere else and people are so against it.

If my memory serves me correctly Mick or someone else told me that we can't have a block feature because it disrupts the flow of the forum in which hiding messages completely makes things confusing and breaks conversations and replies. I personally speak for my self and nobody else but I would rather have the ability to prevent ignored members from following me, sending me direct messages, posting on my message wall or viewing my profile altogether over hiding their messages from me. I personally do not care if I need to see ignored members posts or if they see my posts or like my posts and I agree with Mick(or whoever else said that) that it disrupts the flow of the forum by hiding messages altogether but we should be able to prevent interactions and communications with specific people.

I personally don't understand how other members discovering you have them on ignore creates "drama" if people are upset that others have them on ignore then with all due respect they need to grow up a bit more, It's impossible to have everyone like you and people should know this. I'm sure there's several people who have me on ignore for whatever reason (probably my personality or tone of voice) and it truly means nothing to me if there's people who have me on ignore, I respect their wishes and will not interact with them.

 

[skarmoury]

First of all, @Chris , I'm really glad you've been getting the help that you need and that you're taking steps to be better and take accountability. That's great! I hope your journey goes better. Of course, and you understand by now, it's still not an excuse for your actions as a staff member. At the very least a sort of long hiatus will be beneficial for both you and the community, not that I'm trying to push you away of course, but I genuinely want you to grow. I believe your growth will be all the better if you're not muddled with the heavy responsibilities of becoming a staff. ^^

Second, who is accusing people of asking Chris to step down with the purpose of wanting to become staff? I just kinda skimmed that part because the convo derailed lol. It misses the point of this discussion by a mile.

Anyway, moving forward,

I will have to say, however, that updating the ignore feature to where ignored members can’t even follow the users may be a recipe for disaster. If ignored members can’t follow others, they will find out that they’re ignoring them. And it could breed more drama.

This is a general question, why would you see someone's preference for comfort as drama and being disastrous? If I'm uncomfortable with someone, I should have every right to my own peace of mind, as should they. To see this suggestion as a "breeding place for drama" is missing the point of the block feature entirely — you're allowed to cater to your own comfort for whatever reason.

The thing about people blocking/ignoring people is that it does interfere in events.

This forum will live even with the block feature. I'd wager the block feature won't be the reason for a downspike in user activity, nor will it make even a dent. Again, as I said, people will cater to their own needs — if they feel an event is more of a priority than blocking people then they will unblock people for the sake of the event. Vice versa, if a person is extremely uncomfortable with someone else to the point where they don't want to interact with them even during events, they should have a choice.

This kinda segues to my thoughts to the issue of bans and being 'uncomfortable'— I just thought of this, but it doesn't sit right with me how one member was singled out because of their tone and for "making members uncomfortable" when I can name multiple members in this thread who have made me uncomfortable through their insensitive comments downplaying this entire situation as "drama", essentially dismissing how people feel about rightful complaints just because we sound "cruel" or whatever (which is just. untrue. unless you have an extremely low tolerance for straightforwardness). This isn't directed to a single person, but a general group of people who I've seen be dismissive and refusing to understand comments in opposition to staff. I understand there will be disagreements, and I extremely appreciate those who are open to hearing both sides, but now and then someone will come in and interpret the thread as "members attacking staff, oh poor staff!" which is wild and gross misinterpretation of the situation. I guess I'm just saying this because I still believe singling out someone because "members were not comfortable with your tone" is unfair, especially when many others see their tone as just and straightforward a lot of times, and especially when other members have made me uncomfortable. Do I think these members who've made me uncomfortable deserve a ban? Not necessarily.

Honestly, I've started distancing myself from this site because of the people who are unable to properly discuss things in this feedback thread. I'm not asking everyone to join in, it's your choice and I'm not going to hold it against you if you want to avoid this thread, but if you do join in, I'd ask you for a basic understanding on all sides. Otherwise, you are enabling the long-standing dismissiveness on this site. You can say "this one member is pushing people away" — well, enabling of harmful decisions by staff is also pushing other members away.

 

[-Apples-]

This is a general question, why would you see someone's preference for comfort as drama and being disastrous? If I'm uncomfortable with someone, I should have every right to my own peace of mind, as should they. To see this suggestion as a "breeding place for drama" is missing the point of the block feature entirely — you're allowed to cater to your own comfort for whatever reason.

Maybe not more drama, but possibly a new kind of drama. But a simpler way to answer this is with another question. Would you like it or care if your ignore list was public or accessible by others (even though they can’t change it)? If not, having certain features disabled to ignored users to that member can help them figure out that they’re being ignored, and that isn’t any different to having an ignore list made public.

But then again, changing the ignore feature to make it more potent isn’t any different to adding new features or changing other features when it comes to solving problems or creating new problems. Take for instance, the Wi-Fi rating system. It’s supposed to help others understand if they can be trusted when playing online or trading. But there was a possibility, which has happened a couple times in this forum’s history, where people would send revenge negative ratings or retaliate to a negative rating. That’s why the staff added rules against abusing the system.

 

[nightglow]

First of all, @Chris , I'm really glad you've been getting the help that you need and that you're taking steps to be better and take accountability. That's great! I hope your journey goes better. Of course, and you understand by now, it's still not an excuse for your actions as a staff member. At the very least a sort of long hiatus will be beneficial for both you and the community, not that I'm trying to push you away of course, but I genuinely want you to grow. I believe your growth will be all the better if you're not muddled with the heavy responsibilities of becoming a staff. ^^

Second, who is accusing people of asking Chris to step down with the purpose of wanting to become staff? I just kinda skimmed that part because the convo derailed lol. It misses the point of this discussion by a mile.

Anyway, moving forward,


This is a general question, why would you see someone's preference for comfort as drama and being disastrous? If I'm uncomfortable with someone, I should have every right to my own peace of mind, as should they. To see this suggestion as a "breeding place for drama" is missing the point of the block feature entirely — you're allowed to cater to your own comfort for whatever reason.


This forum will live even with the block feature. I'd wager the block feature won't be the reason for a downspike in user activity, nor will it make even a dent. Again, as I said, people will cater to their own needs — if they feel an event is more of a priority than blocking people then they will unblock people for the sake of the event. Vice versa, if a person is extremely uncomfortable with someone else to the point where they don't want to interact with them even during events, they should have a choice.

This kinda segues to my thoughts to the issue of bans and being 'uncomfortable'— I just thought of this, but it doesn't sit right with me how one member was singled out because of their tone and for "making members uncomfortable" when I can name multiple members in this thread who have made me uncomfortable through their insensitive comments downplaying this entire situation as "drama", essentially dismissing how people feel about rightful complaints just because we sound "cruel" or whatever (which is just. untrue. unless you have an extremely low tolerance for straightforwardness). This isn't directed to a single person, but a general group of people who I've seen be dismissive and refusing to understand comments in opposition to staff. I understand there will be disagreements, and I extremely appreciate those who are open to hearing both sides, but now and then someone will come in and interpret the thread as "members attacking staff, oh poor staff!" which is wild and gross misinterpretation of the situation. I guess I'm just saying this because I still believe singling out someone because "members were not comfortable with your tone" is unfair, especially when many others see their tone as just and straightforward a lot of times, and especially when other members have made me uncomfortable. Do I think these members who've made me uncomfortable deserve a ban? Not necessarily.

Honestly, I've started distancing myself from this site because of the people who are unable to properly discuss things in this feedback thread. I'm not asking everyone to join in, it's your choice and I'm not going to hold it against you if you want to avoid this thread, but if you do join in, I'd ask you for a basic understanding on all sides. Otherwise, you are enabling the long-standing dismissiveness on this site. You can say "this one member is pushing people away" — well, enabling of harmful decisions by staff is also pushing other members away.

I generally agree with you, but there is a huge difference in addressing issues to staff about staff vs starting "feedback" as well time to talk about ****ty mods and similar things. Just gonna point that out here. I don't know if people feel the poor staff feelings. Maybe there was someone who described something like that a while back. (I really don't want to go read through all that stuff again). But as members have already expressed, some stuff escalated because of staff taking too long. Part of seeing both sides is noticing things like these.
I too have distanced myself from the forums because of the people who are improperly able to discuss things in this thread... or even effort de-escalate things at that.
As I have told staff, I find it sad that someone was banned. And I trust that staff about what they did. I don't know the details and I don't need to know and I am not interested in demanding breaching thier policy of privacy. If I didn't trust them, I would just leave because, in my rationale, why would I stay? I hope that trust stays, because if not, then I guess I won't be here and move on because pretty much no matter what I wouldn't be happy with the forum because I wouldn't be happy with who runs/owns the forums.

 

[a potato]

Would you like it or care if your ignore list was public or accessible by others (even though they can’t change it)?

Apples, I understand the point you are trying to make in pointing out how it may impact other people, but that is going to be something that is handled on a personal basis. If you don’t feel comfortable blocking someone for this reason, that is entirely fair. Just as you are entitled to feeling this way about it, if someone wants to block another user, they have the right to their own feelings. For some users, personal safety and comfort will outweigh the possibility of this scenario occurring, and that should be respected. Unfortunately, it is true that blocking someone could be detected by others, and I’m sure nobody wants to start any arguments, but the security in blocking is a far greater benefit. Seeing as this is something desired by so many members of the community, as well, it could play a role in rebuilding and retaining members.

 

[skarmoury]

Would you like it or care if your ignore list was public or accessible by others (even though they can’t change it)?

No, but in general ignore/block lists aren't public though? I've blocked people on instagram, facebook, and twitter lol. If they find out I blocked them then idk it's on them how to react. I personally don't care. I have every right to cater how I use the websites to my own liking, and that includes blocking people I don't want to interact with. Same goes to everyone else; if someone's blocked me then. alright. It's their right after all.

there is a huge difference in addressing issues to staff about staff vs starting "feedback" as well time to talk about ****ty mods and similar things.

I'm really sorry, I don't understand this statement at all.

And I trust that staff about what they did. I don't know the details and I don't need to know and I am not interested in demanding breaching thier policy of privacy.

The problem with this is that we believe staff to have better judgement (and hence why they were chosen to run the site), but we've seen time and time again that certain decisions they've made were harmful. Your trust is unbroken but many others are — and it's up to you whether to know the details or not of course, but if you're not interesred in knowing the details then you also have no right to criticize those who do want to know certain details for the sake of transparency. This isn't a comment to you alone but to many others who put full trust in staff; I have no control over how you see the situation, but having no interest in knowing further details means your POV is limited and you can't judge those who do have more information on the situation, or those who want to know more.

 

[Saylor]

I just wanna say... I think it's extremely important for people to feel safe around the staff in a community like this. It should be a given even if everyone here was an adult, but with there being young members, the responsibility should really fall on the leaders of the site to make sure it's staffed by people who don't have a history of behaving inappropriately. A lot of us have gestured toward our own experiences dealing with inappropriate behavior on here, and I'm not at all trying to directly compare Chris's actions to any of that, but more just say that I think a lot of us feel as though not enough has been done to root out that behavior and I really hope you guys will consider the comfort of your userbase moving forward. Before dismissing anyone's concerns as a witch hunt or suggesting that anyone is trying to chase a moderator off the forum for their own gain, please consider that there are members here who have had some not great experiences with other (usually older) members, and the last thing any of us want is to feel that discomfort with a staff member.

Chris, I'm really glad you're taking steps to better yourself and I sincerely wish you well in that. I've seen the same sentiment that Xara mentioned that your hard work on here doesn't go unnoticed. I do hope you'll consider everything that has been said here and think about taking some time away for a bit, not just for the sake of accountability, but for your own well-being as well.

 

[nightglow]

No, but in general ignore/block lists aren't public though? I've blocked people on instagram, facebook, and twitter lol. If they find out I blocked them then idk it's on them how to react. I personally don't care. I have every right to cater how I use the websites to my own liking, and that includes blocking people I don't want to interact with.


I'm really sorry, I don't understand this statement at all.


The problem with this is that we believe staff to have better judgement (and hence why they were chosen to run the site), but we've seen time and time again that certain decisions they've made were harmful. Your trust is unbroken but many others are — and it's up to you whether to know the details or not of course, but if you're not interesred in knowing the details then you also have no right to criticize those who do want to know certain details for the sake of transparency. This isn't a comment to you alone but to many others who put full trust in staff; I have no control over how you see the situation, but having no interest in knowing further details means your POV is limited and you can't judge those who do have more information on the situation, or those who want to know more.

Where did I criticize members who supposedly have all the details?
I'm pretty sure I didn't participate in a large chunk of this thread. Maybe this can be clarified.

I can give more details about the statement you don't understand if you have interest if you really want to discuss that.

 

[skarmoury]

Where did I criticize members who supposedly have all the details?
I'm pretty sure I didn't participate in a large chunk of this thread. Maybe this can be clarified.

This isn't a comment to you alone but to many others who put full trust in staff

I'm really sorry. Again it wasn't a comment to you alone. I'm not trying to single you out.

 

[nightglow]

I'm really sorry. Again it wasn't a comment to you alone. I'm not trying to single you out.

It's fine, I just thought I'd ask because the way you worded the statement included me with a group of other people.

 

[deana]

I'm good with the idea of a full on block feature. Perhaps a full proper block for member to member and the ability to more softly “ignore” staff members? I don’t currently use the feature but if things were so bad that I wanted to ignore/block someone I would be 100% okay with missing out on any eggs in their posts or whatever.

If my memory serves me correctly Mick or someone else told me that we can't have a block feature because it disrupts the flow of the forum in which hiding messages completely makes things confusing and breaks conversations and replies.

I seem to remember something similar but that reason specifically doesn't make a lot of sense to me as a justification against a block feature. There are plenty of times where an argument will start in a thread, staff comes in and deletes everything, I visit the thread a while later and have no idea what's going on just that the vibes are off and everyone hates each other. So staff can disrupt the flow of the thread conversation but I'm not allowed to do it to myself by blocking someone?

I’ve seen the repeated cycle of hurtful comments being made (A), a lack of staff action (from our perspective), resulting in the community (B) attempting to educate the user being hurtful explaining why it’s damaging to say xyz, some back and forth until staff step in when the situation has escalated - which could have been entirely avoided if the hurtful comments were shut down sooner.

I would argue this is the issue, as having more staff members (that are active) would fill those gaps of time zones, lag time and making things easier for you guys whilst benefiting the community. It sounds like you need more active staff?

I don't know if it's good or bad for members to get involved in trying to educate each other when harmful content gets posted (I can see both sides to it) but if part of the reason this is happening is because staff aren't acting fast enough to reports well then that's an actionable item we can address! Big agree that we could use more staff! I've felt for a while like this site could benefit from another active staff member in a Europe/Asia/Australia time zone.

 

[sleepey]

A bigger concern I would have is a group of people systematically abusing the block system to isolate particular people and essentially trying to mini mod the community because they feel justified to for one reason or another.

Maybe more power in the hands of a community to determine who they interact with is a good thing. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate compromise on a website where staff can remove a valued member of the community just the same?

 

[nightglow]

Maybe more power in the hands of a community to determine who they interact with is a good thing. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate compromise on a website where staff can remove a valued member of the community just the same?

1st, I just want to clarify that the ability for anyone to systematically work to isolate other people out of the community isn't the same as simply giving power to the hands of the community. Literally anyone can hop on this forum and do this. Doesn't matter if there is a one year delay for a new member(s) to block people. Maybe someone is for it today but if they find themselves isolated I'm sure they wouldn't be happy.
Secondly, that method is less forgiving and there is no appeal process... However with the staff running the show, there is forgiveness and appeal process available. If someone feels like there isn't, perhaps making a group online to run somewhere and move on (maybe even run it this new way of allowing anyone to systematically isolate anyone with the block function) is a good idea.

However.. about your general comment,
If that is how the staff wishes to run the community, self governed then that's thier call. The forum practically belongs to the staff, so their call for the forum to go to that. I won't be sticking around for that though, because I feel like it will just be more of the same of what I've seen this year on the forums (which I guess according to older members has been around longer than this year?) And I find that sad. Just me.

 

[-Apples-]

1st, I just want to clarify that the ability for anyone to systematically work to isolate other people out of the community isn't the same as simply giving power to the hands of the community. Literally anyone can hop on this forum and do this. Doesn't matter if there is a one year delay for a new member(s) to block people. Maybe someone is for it today but if they find themselves isolated I'm sure they wouldn't be happy.
Secondly, that method is less forgiving and there is no appeal process... However with the staff running the show, there is forgiveness and appeal process available. If someone feels like there isn't, perhaps making a group online to run somewhere and move on (maybe even run it this new way of allowing anyone to systematically isolate anyone with the block function) is a good idea.

However.. about your general comment,
If that is how the staff wishes to run the community, self governed then that's thier call. The forum practically belongs to the staff, so their call for the forum to go to that. I won't be sticking around for that though, because I feel like it will just be more of the same of what I've seen this year on the forums (which I guess according to older members has been around longer than this year?) And I find that sad. Just me.

You may be right that the staff own this forum, but it’s shared among the community. Also, the staff may be the law of the land, but it’s the community as a whole that pulls the strings to this site.

 

[nightglow]

You may be right that the staff own this forum, but it’s shared among the community. Also, the staff may be the law of the land, but it’s the community as a whole that pulls the strings to this site.

Yes but I'm just saying it's up to them if they want the forum to operate like that.

 

[sleepey]

-snip-

I replied to you the first time because I think it’s disingenuous to imply that the user-base will “systematically work to isolate other people out of the community” on a thread where people are alleging the staff to have systematically done that to a regular member, with no power. Ownership is precisely the conflict in this thread. Does the forum belong to the community, or does it belong solely to its staff? Sure, a lot of people could leave to make a new community with their own rules—you’re right. And a lot of them are fighting for a community they grew up in. I feel you are threatened by that, and I’m sorry.

 

[nightglow]

I replied to you the first time because I think it’s disingenuous to imply that the user-base will “systematically work to isolate other people out of the community” on a thread where people are alleging the staff to have systematically done that to a regular member, with no power. Ownership is precisely the conflict in this thread. Does the forum belong to the community, or does it belong solely to its staff? Sure, a lot of people could leave to make a new community with their own rules—you’re right. And a lot of them are fighting for a community they grew up in. I feel you are threatened by that, and I’m sorry.

I simply stated the ability is there. I don't feel threatened. I simply just pointed it out as one way it could be used, as that was being discussed. Maybe it is some people's cup of tea, but I'd imagine for others it isn't. Worth pointing out either way. I'm sorry you find my comments problematic. I do have more faith in a staff team existing over a community self running about corruption and abuse happening. Others don't have to have the opinion though. That is the plus side about individualism.
I do like Mars proposal however.

 

[-Lumi-]

I simply stated the ability is there. I don't feel threatened. I simply just pointed it out as one way it could be used, as that was being discussed. Maybe it is some people's cup of tea, but I'd imagine for others it isn't. Worth pointing out either way. I'm sorry you find my comments problematic. I do have more faith in a staff team existing over a community self running about corruption and abuse happening. Others don't have to have the opinion though. That is the plus side about individualism.
I do like Mars proposal however.

I genuinely do not understand what it is you're trying to accomplish? Why are you making up little scenarios ~that could happen~ when realistically no, they wouldn't? Literally every other form of social media (because our forum is a social place so it's worth comparing) has an adequate blocking function. TBT is literally the only one I can think of that doesn't.

To sit here and try and think up these ridiculous situations to try and say we shouldn't have that feature too is absurd.

If there genuinely is a person on this site that is going to be blocked by such a large percentage of the userbase that it negatively impacts their ability to participate in events/day to day forum life that's on them. They would have had to be doing something upsetting/problematic to garner that much hatred by that many people.

 

[nightglow]

I genuinely do not understand what it is you're trying to accomplish? Why are you making up little scenarios ~that could happen~ when realistically no, they wouldn't? Literally every other form of social media (because our forum is a social place so it's worth comparing) has an adequate blocking function. TBT is literally the only one I can think of that doesn't.

To sit here and try and think up these ridiculous situations to try and say we shouldn't have that feature too is absurd.

If there genuinely is a person on this site that is going to be blocked by such a large percentage of the userbase that it negatively impacts their ability to participate in events/day to day forum life that's on them. They would have had to be doing something upsetting/problematic to garner that much hatred by that many people.

First, I am not against blocking. I very much think the ignore system needs reworked, but I suppose that comment was ignored.
What I don't think is a good idea (the forum can do whatever it wants obviously) to have all posts blocked because of the nature of this forum. It is slightly unfair to compare it to Facebook. This forum operates events that rely on member's posts. Whether it is team work or finding clues or eggs. Whatever.
Sure maybe someone isolated like that would be because they are problematic, but that is the thing, that problem could have been miscommunication, misinformation, rumors, or plain hate.
This isn't me simply making up little scenarios. This was simply adding the the conversation of what a total block on a site like TBT could entail. I thought we were all on board for being on the look out for corruption or abuse of power easily being a thing? This can easily be a thing. The argument here is why not do *this* since staff can do *that*. The appeal process alone is reason enough of a difference. Others are free to completely disagree. I figured it was worth mentioning whether anyone sees it as a plus or as a negative. I could have thrown this in the CTS thread but thought it may be of interest to other member hare already discussing it in detail.