(Proposal) Bell Tree Traders Guild

[matchaman]

This is honestly why the forum economy upsets me so much—because it’s pushing people to change the way they play the game.

Put it perfectly tbh. The overpricing of villagers and hybrids are ridiculous, and it's forcing you to either cheat the game through duping (do not support, to make it clear) or to slave away at the NMT grind. I would go into the whole villager tier list thing, but that's a bit messy to get into. c:

 

[matchaman]

bumping as I think many more people might be interested in this.

 

[Morningowl]

I don’t know how much I would participate but I fully support the idea. I think its good to have options and showing there are other ways of doing it. I feel like trading in Animal crossing games always has some kind of honor system if this way or that way, there is always a chance for poop people but there can still be hope that there won’t. Also think forum staff would be okay with it if there no malice behind it.

 

[0orchid]

I'd love to join if this ends up being officially created

 

[Kaiaa]

I completely understand that people don’t want to lose out on money or feel like they should have asked for more. However, the idea sounds great in theory but I just don’t think it can work. Trading rules are very fickle, I should know because I helped write them. We once had (possible still do?) a villager tier system that was voted on by the community and people were typically outraged at it because they didn’t agree with it. I can see the guild doing a lot of the same as the tier system did back in the day, except this time it’s not just about villagers.

While you say participation is completely optional, the guild would be forcing those who did not join the guild to adhere to its guidelines.

If someone posts something outrageous, I would just recommend not to buy it. Their price will usually come down on its own. If everyone would do that, then prices would all come down. Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as that because not everyone would do that. Especially if say... their dreamie is available for an outrageous price but they have the bells/nmt to pay for them! They’re gonna buy.

Very neat idea though, I’d like to see what others think!

 

[Mairen]

Considering how similar this is to a thread I made last night (goodness was it last night? So easy to lose track of time now) I'm all for supporting this idea. I'll throw some of my ideas out here and see if they might be considered!

*I wouldn't support the idea of "we're only allowed to do business with guild members". I'm all for leading through good examples for the entire community to be a part of. As long as enough of us continues to offer sales/trades/services at fair prices, I believe that should be enough to push the economy in a positive direction. Going forward with the attitude of "no I'm not going to sell to you because you aren't a part of my club! just feels counter productive. I don't really mind who's buying from me as long as I'm selling at a fair price.

*As with any economy, prices typically go up and down. Are we planning on working with set prices forever and ever? Or is someone going to keep track of the market and raise and lower our guild prices (within fair limits of course!) as demands change?

*If we make a badge for all of us to have (like put in our signatures maybe?) How are we going to stop non-guild members from putting that badge on their own signatures/in their own threads, claiming to be selling something based on the fair prices we set, but actually overcharging. They'd just be using that badge to trick people into thinking they are selling at fair prices, maybe using that badge to falsely draw people into their sale, then making a huge profit instead.

*Due to the large number of positive response from members wanting to participate in a movement to push the economy into a more positive direction, how are we all going to agree on set prices? Everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion on what's considered fair or not. Who's going to be the person to decide these prices?

Those are just some concerns I thought up >.< I am absolutely all for this guild! I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there so we could maybe put some thought into them a little bit before starting this up

 

[Morningowl]

I completely understand that people don’t want to lose out on money or feel like they should have asked for more. However, the idea sounds great in theory but I just don’t think it can work. Trading rules are very fickle, I should know because I helped write them. We once had (possible still do?) a villager tier system that was voted on by the community and people were typically outraged at it because they didn’t agree with it. I can see the guild doing a lot of the same as the tier system did back in the day, except this time it’s not just about villagers.

While you say participation is completely optional, the guild would be forcing those who did not join the guild to adhere to its guidelines.

If someone posts something outrageous, I would just recommend not to buy it. Their price will usually come down on its own. If everyone would do that, then prices would all come down. Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as that because not everyone would do that. Especially if say... their dreamie is available for an outrageous price but they have the bells/nmt to pay for them! They’re gonna buy.

Very neat idea though, I’d like to see what others think!

I think you bring up some good points. Of course you don't to push your way onto other players. Kind of already see that happening and maybe this would be same but in reverse, I am not quite sure. I think my main thing is getting the word out that prices aren't set in stone but people act like they are. I have mention this before I have had trades in NH and NL that people have felt bad if they don't give me the "going rate" If I am okay and your okay with whatever the agreement is, no there is no reason to feel bad xD

 

[Fey]

While you say participation is completely optional, the guild would be forcing those who did not join the guild to adhere to its guidelines.

How would it be forcing people to adhere to its guidelines? They are purely meant for people willing to adhere to them. Additionally, they should be generous and flexible enough to ensure that any reasonable offer falls within them naturally—thus preventing people from being peer-pressured into unreasonably low prices.

The idea really is to create a system that people can profit from without excluding a vast majority of potential customers.

That said, I really appreciate the input—especially coming from your experience! You’re right that it’s not much more than an experiment at this point, and will bring lots of challenges with it along the way. If anything I think it’s worth the attempt after reading all the discontent about our current situation, and would rather try and do something than resign completely from the start. Even if it doesn’t end up working, it’s encouraging to see people come together for something ^ｪ^

 

[Larimar]

I'm not savvy whatsoever when it comes to economy stuff (and im pretty shy when it comes to conducting any business outside of selling turnips) so even though I likely won't be participating, this is a wonderful idea and I wish y'all the best of luck with discussing and organizing it! : D

I'm hoping when TBT comes back it'll lift a lot of the heavy-lifting that y'all would have to do in the very beginning, or maybe even help enough that this won't be needed, but I'm not entirely familiar with the worth and economy of the currency since i just joined right before the site's redesign so who knows! We can never know with economy! It just goes!

 

[matchaman]

Considering how similar this is to a thread I made last night (goodness was it last night? So easy to lose track of time now) I'm all for supporting this idea. I'll throw some of my ideas out here and see if they might be considered!

*I wouldn't support the idea of "we're only allowed to do business with guild members". I'm all for leading through good examples for the entire community to be a part of. As long as enough of us continues to offer sales/trades/services at fair prices, I believe that should be enough to push the economy in a positive direction. Going forward with the attitude of "no I'm not going to sell to you because you aren't a part of my club! just feels counter productive. I don't really mind who's buying from me as long as I'm selling at a fair price.

*As with any economy, prices typically go up and down. Are we planning on working with set prices forever and ever? Or is someone going to keep track of the market and raise and lower our guild prices (within fair limits of course!) as demands change?

*If we make a badge for all of us to have (like put in our signatures maybe?) How are we going to stop non-guild members from putting that badge on their own signatures/in their own threads, claiming to be selling something based on the fair prices we set, but actually overcharging. They'd just be using that badge to trick people into thinking they are selling at fair prices, maybe using that badge to falsely draw people into their sale, then making a huge profit instead.

*Due to the large number of positive response from members wanting to participate in a movement to push the economy into a more positive direction, how are we all going to agree on set prices? Everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion on what's considered fair or not. Who's going to be the person to decide these prices?

Those are just some concerns I thought up >.< I am absolutely all for this guild! I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there so we could maybe put some thought into them a little bit before starting this up

You've raised really good questions!! I think what Fey meant by proposing an idea of allowing trade only within the guild was to prevent people from trading something for a relatively good price (let's say for example that Raymond was in boxes and was being given off to a non-guild member for 100 NMT or something) and then that being resold for a higher price.

As for pricing, there could be a sort of thing where its recommended to charge 150% (or something else, just setting it as an example) of the original product, while also keep the official Bell -> Nookmile rate the same if people would rather pay through tickets (500 nook miles are equal to 3,000 bells according to the bell voucher item at the Nookstop).

Just some ideas I've been jotting down here as a response! c:

 

[LightFromFable]

You've raised really good questions!! I think what Fey meant by proposing an idea of allowing trade only within the guild was to prevent people from trading something for a relatively good price (let's say for example that Raymond was in boxes and was being given off to a non-guild member for 100 NMT or something) and then that being resold for a higher price.

As for pricing, there could be a sort of thing where its recommended to charge 150% (or something else, just setting it as an example) of the original product, while also keep the official Bell -> Nookmile rate the same if people would rather pay through tickets (500 nook miles are equal to 3,000 bells according to the bell voucher item at the Nookstop).

Just some ideas I've been jotting down here as a response! c:

The nook mile idea is good, i like that

 

[Millysaurusrexjr]

I'm very interested in this idea/group/guild. Trading has gone to **** on here and it is sad. Where has TBT gone? That was the best currency. I'm still holding out hope that things will go back to normal in a couple months.

I feel like this idea could work really well in a private discord or something in the mean time. There's so many people on here participating in those huge NMT trades so I feel like I would be a bit discouraged if the guild were on these forums, publicly, where anyone could abuse it But I suppose there'd be nothing stopping them from joining the discord.

 

[shootingxtar]

I like this idea, and if we have a guild symbol or name I think it should be associated to Ravens. "They're tough, aggressive birds, clever to the point of being sneaky, and never forget a grudge, but also compassionate."
just an idea

 

[Jacob]

I think it's definitely a really smart and progressive idea, doing it exclusively through discord is probably the better route so you don't get continuously scammed. It's a great way to make close friends too. Having a small (or large) group of friends is a great support system for finding items as well. Good luck to you guys!

 

[Kaiaa]

How would it be forcing people to adhere to its guidelines?

This is solely my opinion but I think it would force others to adhere to it whether they joined or not because it encourages a handful of people’s opinion to be taken as “law” although it’s only a guide. I only say this because of the troubles we had when we allowed the community to rank villagers. Yes, the tier system was completely opinion, but it heavily influenced prices in the villager trading plaza. I’m afraid that a guild deciding what is fair will influence people to take the guides too seriously.

Please know I’m not trying to discourage you, it’s wonderful to see everyone trying to come up with a solution to the economy! I’m sure the staff are working on ideas, so I would encourage you to talk to one of them. They may not be able to give you answers (as they are very secretive!!) but they might be able to let you know that it’s something they are trying to come up with a solution to.

 

[DJStarstryker]

I'd be all for something to happen. I wanted to give the game a few weeks before I started trading so I could have built up some tradeables, but now that I have and feel more ready to trade... everything's ridiculous. I don't dupe and I don't TT. There's no way I can possibly keep up with these outrageous prices.

Would a guild be the best way to go about it? I don't know. Right now, all I feel like I can do though is wait for SOMETHING to happen. Either the prices somehow get reasonable or TBT come back or something else.

 

[matchaman]

I'm very interested in this idea/group/guild. Trading has gone to **** on here and it is sad. Where has TBT gone? That was the best currency. I'm still holding out hope that things will go back to normal in a couple months.

I feel like this idea could work really well in a private discord or something in the mean time. There's so many people on here participating in those huge NMT trades so I feel like I would be a bit discouraged if the guild were on these forums, publicly, where anyone could abuse it But I suppose there'd be nothing stopping them from joining the discord.

I think TBT are only gone temporarily because of the TBT 3.0 update, they should be back soon!

 

[Fey]

Considering how similar this is to a thread I made last night (goodness was it last night? So easy to lose track of time now) I'm all for supporting this idea. I'll throw some of my ideas out here and see if they might be considered!

*I wouldn't support the idea of "we're only allowed to do business with Guild members". I'm all for leading through good examples for the entire community to be a part of. As long as enough of us continues to offer sales/trades/services at fair prices, I believe that should be enough to push the economy in a positive direction. Going forward with the attitude of "no I'm not going to sell to you because you aren't a part of my club! just feels counter productive. I don't really mind who's buying from me as long as I'm selling at a fair price.

*As with any economy, prices typically go up and down. Are we planning on working with set prices forever and ever? Or is someone going to keep track of the market and raise and lower our guild prices (within fair limits of course!) as demands change?

*If we make a badge for all of us to have (like put in our signatures maybe?) How are we going to stop non-guild members from putting that badge on their own signatures/in their own threads, claiming to be selling something based on the fair prices we set, but actually overcharging. They'd just be using that badge to trick people into thinking they are selling at fair prices, maybe using that badge to falsely draw people into their sale, then making a huge profit instead.

*Due to the large number of positive response from members wanting to participate in a movement to push the economy into a more positive direction, how are we all going to agree on set prices? Everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion on what's considered fair or not. Who's going to be the person to decide these prices?

Those are just some concerns I thought up >.< I am absolutely all for this guild! I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there so we could maybe put some thought into them a little bit before starting this up

You bring up several important points that definitely need to be discussed! I can respond with my ideas and thoughts on them, but I don’t want to be the sole decision-maker or spokesperson for the group.

I’ll try addressing points in order:

• I agree that business should remain open to everyone and not be exclusive to people within the Guild. That was never in my original proposal, and is something I almost see as counterproductive to its ideals.

What I did say, is that people could decide on their own to limit their business to other Guild members, if that’s what they feel more comfortable with. Key here is that those decisions are purely on an individual seller’s level, not an official, recommended Guild practice.

• I do think that prices could be adjusted over time, though it remains to be seen whether that would be necessary. Like I said to Kaiaa, there should be upward flexibility from the start (by that I mean that the recommended prices have wide enough ranges to accommodate at least some change in demand). I don’t think going in saying this exact amount for villagers, hybrids, teapots etc. is reasonable, because sellers should ultimately still have enough freedom in setting their own prices.

• While I like the idea of including our symbol in signatures etc. to identify individual members, my main thought was using it mainly to mark specific offers (so threads) that follow Guild guidelines. Of course people could intentionally mislabel threads, but if their offers are outside of the guidelines it should be fairly obvious based on their pricing (as in, a thread selling Raymond for 800 NMT is likely not a legitimate Guild offer)

~
​

Adding to the discussion of Guild Membership, I think I’m seeing it a lot less binding than most people are.
Being in the Guild means supporting its core values, and following its guidelines when appropriate. That means that even
someone within the Guild can choose to make offers outside of the guidelines as long as they don’t use the Guild’s symbol for that thread.* I think this is important flexibility—especially early on when people aren’t sure how this’ll all work out, and might be nervous about offering high-value items for lower prices than most other sellers. Someone might be fine selling flowers, items, or mid-tier villagers for Guild prices, but not comfortable giving away Raymond for (comparatively) cheap.

* It should be clear that buying from a Guild offer and then reselling that same product outside of the guidelines goes against our values and is therefore strongly discouraged

 

[matchaman]

You bring up several important points that definitely need to be discussed! I can respond with my ideas and thoughts on them, but I don’t want to be the sole decision-maker or spokesperson for the group.

I’ll try addressing points in order:

• I agree that business should remain open to everyone and not be exclusive to people within the Guild. That was never in my original proposal, and is something I almost see as counterproductive to its ideals.

What I did say, is that people could decide on their own to limit their business to other guild members, if that’s what they feel more comfortable with. Key here is that those decisions are purely on an individual seller’s level, not an official, recommended Guild practice.

• I do think that prices could be adjusted over time, though it remains to be seen whether that would be necessary. Like I said to Kaiaa, there should be upward flexibility from the start (by that I mean that the recommended prices have wide enough ranges to accommodate at least some change in demand). I don’t think going in saying this exact amount for villagers, hybrids, teapots etc. is reasonable, because sellers should ultimately still have enough freedom in setting their own prices.

• While I like the idea of including our symbol in signatures etc. to identify individual members, my main thought was using it mainly to mark specific offers (so threads) that follow Guild guidelines. Of course people could intentionally mislabel threads, but if their offers are outside of the guidelines it should be fairly obvious based on their pricing (as in, a thread selling Raymond for 800 NMT is likely not a legitimate Guild offer)

~
​

Adding to the discussion of Guild Membership, I think I’m seeing it a lot less binding than most people are.
Being in the Guild means supporting its core values, and following its guidelines when appropriate. That means that even
someone within the Guild can choose to make offers outside of the guidelines as long as they don’t use the Guild’s symbol for that thread.* I think this is important flexibility—especially early on when people aren’t sure how this’ll all work out, and might be nervous about offering high-value items for lower prices than most other sellers. Someone might be fine selling flowers, items, or mid-tier villagers for Guild prices, but not comfortable giving away Raymond for (comparatively) cheap.

* It should be clear that buying from a Guild offer and then reselling that same product outside of the guidelines goes against our values and is therefore strongly discouraged

Overall, your idea seems to be pretty solid, and I'd love to take part! Although as Jacob said, a discord server to go along with this would most likely make it easier for us to communicate, set up a basis for guidelines as well as separate channels for different types of trades (eg. recipes, flowers, personal shops, etc.)

 

[Fey]

Overall, your idea seems to be pretty solid, and I'd love to take part! Although as Jacob said, a discord server to go along with this would most likely make it easier for us to communicate, set up a basis for guidelines as well as separate channels for different types of trades (eg. recipes, flowers, personal shops, etc.)

Thank you, I’ve really been appreciating your ongoing interest and participation!

I’ll admit that I’m not the most familiar with Discord, so setting something up there would have to fall to someone else (which I’d be more than fine with, if that’s what the majority prefers)

Ideally I wanted the Guild to positively impact trading on the forum directly, but I can see how that might either not be feasible, or go against what people really want.

One of our first moves could be figuring out how preferences are distributed: open vs closed Guild, forum vs Discord etc. Making a seperate survey for that might be a good idea.