Feminism Discussion Thread

[kayleee]

I dunno. Men tend to get ridiculed for cheating, lacking communication skills, being slobs, being ignorant and being aggressive among other things since they're not positive traits. They are however traits that stereotypical men are supposed to have. Women also get ridiculed for those things.

Men get ridiculed for being manly.
Women get ridiculed for being manly.

But completely normal mundane traits that are neither positive or negative that girls have (liking makeup, clothes, shopping, going to the bathroom together, etc) are ridiculed. Being ignorant/a slob/too aggressive/etc are not mundane traits. They are negative traits as you yourself point out that are negative in both males in females and are not strictly "manly" characteristics i.e anyone of either gender can have a temper or be a slob whereas makeup etc are inherently "girly" characteristics. Your attempt at equalizing this argument between men and women is ridiculous. there is clearly a large difference in the examples of completely mundane girly stereotypes I provided and your attempt at providing examples of stereotypical "male" traits which are inherently negative and are viewed as such in literally anyone because they just make you a ****ty person. Yet girls are ridiculed for things as untrivial as liking to wear makeup.

Can I make myself any clearer or need I continue I feel like I'm typing the same thing over and over

 

[piichinu]

But completely normal mundane traits that girls have (liking makeup, clothes, shopping, going to the bathroom together, etc) are ridiculed. Being ignorant/a slob/too aggressive/etc are not mundane traits. They are negative traits that are negative in both males in females and are not "manly" characteristics, whereas makeup etc are inherently "girly" characteristics. Your attempt at equalizing this argument between men and women is ridiculous. there is clearly a large difference in the examples of completely mundane girly stereotypes I provided and your attempt at providing examples of stereotypical "male" traits which are inherently negative and are viewed as such in literally anyone because they just make you a ****ty person.

PREACH
I couldn't find a way to word it and you did so thx

 

[Princess]

I agree, I was more referencing that there are times when it is clearly not sexualization but people claim that it is, I should have mentioned that in my post.

Also when it comes to the whole "im not like most girls/im not like most guys thing". It affects both.

When it comes to guys there's also the fact that a lot of guys are seen as animals that just want sex and aren't loving etc. and it makes me really sad because contrary to popular belief, good hearted men do exist.

Ah okay. But the sexualization of underage female characters is pretty prominent within media.

And of course there's good hearted men! Feminism pushes the notion of breaking traditional gender roles and stereotypes which includes not accepting that all men are sex loving animalistic machines.

I just wanna add Ashton, I know you mean absolutely no harm and you're just trying to stick up for the people may feel offended over the generalization some women may throw at men, but the intent is to not generalize at all.

 

[Ashtot]

But completely normal mundane traits that girls have (liking makeup, clothes, shopping, going to the bathroom together, etc) are ridiculed. Being ignorant/a slob/too aggressive/etc are not mundane traits. They are negative traits that are negative in both males in females and are not strictly "manly" characteristics i.e anyone of either gender can have a temper or be a slob whereas makeup etc are inherently "girly" characteristics. Your attempt at equalizing this argument between men and women is ridiculous. there is clearly a large difference in the examples of completely mundane girly stereotypes I provided and your attempt at providing examples of stereotypical "male" traits which are inherently negative and are viewed as such in literally anyone because they just make you a ****ty person.

Since when is liking makeup, clothes, shopping, and going to the bathroom together ridiculed in such a way? I've never seen anyone make fun of girls for this stuff, but I have seen men get ridiculed for being into some of these things. Maybe I'm living under a rock but I've just never seen this or heard it happening.

 

[Princess]

But completely normal mundane traits that are neither positive or negative that girls have (liking makeup, clothes, shopping, going to the bathroom together, etc) are ridiculed. Being ignorant/a slob/too aggressive/etc are not mundane traits. They are negative traits as you yourself point out that are negative in both males in females and are not strictly "manly" characteristics i.e anyone of either gender can have a temper or be a slob whereas makeup etc are inherently "girly" characteristics. Your attempt at equalizing this argument between men and women is ridiculous. there is clearly a large difference in the examples of completely mundane girly stereotypes I provided and your attempt at providing examples of stereotypical "male" traits which are inherently negative and are viewed as such in literally anyone because they just make you a ****ty person.

This is very true. Girls are constantly ridiculed for no matter what they like.
EVEN IF a woman fits in a "stereotypical female role" she is still ridiculed for that.

You shouldn't wear make up because then you come off as "fake"
You should wear make up because you look like a "slob"
You can't have a lot of sexual partners because then you're a "slut"
You should have sex or else you're a "prude"

 

[Ashtot]

Ah okay. But the sexualization of underage female characters is pretty prominent within media.

And of course there's good hearted men! Feminism pushes the notion of breaking traditional gender roles and stereotypes which includes not accepting that all men are sex loving animalistic machines.

I just wanna add Ashton, I know you mean absolutely no harm and you're just trying to stick up for the people may feel offended over the generalization some women may throw at men, but the intent is to not generalize at all.

Yeah I agree, Sometimes I have a hard time writing exactly what is in my head and I think I offend people unknowingly or say things I don't actually mean.

- - - Post Merge - - -

This is very true. Girls are constantly ridiculed for no matter what they like.
EVEN IF a woman fits in a "stereotypical female role" she is still ridiculed for that.

You shouldn't wear make up because then you come off as "fake"
You should wear make up because you look like a "slob"
You can't have a lot of sexual partners because then you're a "slut"
You should have sex or else you're a "prude"

I take back what I said because this definitely does happen, just never in my circle of friends and family.

 

[Princess]

Yeah I agree, Sometimes I have a hard time writing exactly what is in my head and I think I offend people unknowingly or say things I don't actually mean.

Yeah no worries, I know you're just trying to look out for anyone that could fall under a generalization. You're a good kid.
The only issue with that is sometimes nitpicking takes attention from the main issue.

 

[piichinu]

Since when is liking makeup, clothes, shopping, and going to the bathroom together ridiculed in such a way? I've never seen anyone make fun of girls for this stuff, but I have seen men get ridiculed for being into some of these things. Maybe I'm living under a rock but I've just never seen this or heard it happening.

It happens a lot, maybe you have to be a girl to notice it. It actually happened to one of my friends the other day.
And yeah men are made fun of for those same things because they're considered "girly" traits

 

[kayleee]

Since when is liking makeup, clothes, shopping, and going to the bathroom together ridiculed in such a way? I've never seen anyone make fun of girls for this stuff, but I have seen men get ridiculed for being into some of these things. Maybe I'm living under a rock but I've just never seen this or heard it happening.

Are you serious right now? Because if you are you've definitely been living under a rock welcome to modern society which is both male dominated and oriented i think you will fit in just fine

 

[Ashtot]

Are you serious right now? Because if you are you've definitely been living under a rock welcome to modern society which is both male dominated and oriented i think you will fit in just fine

I took back what I said in another post above.

 

[kayleee]

I took back what I said in another post.

Duly noted I posted my reply before I saw you taking it back.

 

[Ashtot]

My question is why does that happen? Personally I don't understand why any of those things are negative.

I'm not a girl so I don't have as much insight but as a guy the only thing that I get put down for is actually gaming, not playing sports, and when I was younger it was fashion and shopping and things but I find people tend to be more accepting of that in guys recently. Gaming tends to still have a lot of negative connotations even today.

 

[kayleee]

My question is why does that happen? Personally I don't understand why any of those things are negative.

I'm not a girl so I don't have as much insight but as a guy the only thing that I get put down for is actually gaming, not playing sports, and when I was younger it was fashion and shopping and things but I find people tend to be more accepting of that in guys recently. Gaming tends to still have a lot of negative connotations even today.

Have you heard how much **** "girl gamers" get? More then guy gamers let me tell ya

 

[mogyay]

My question is why does that happen? Personally I don't understand why any of those things are negative.

I'm not a girl so I don't have as much insight but as a guy the only thing that I get put down for is actually gaming, not playing sports, and when I was younger it was fashion and shopping and things but I find people tend to be more accepting of that in guys recently. Gaming tends to still have a lot of negative connotations even today.

sometimes it's not like they're inherently trying to be negative. i've had guys tell me how they prefer girls who wear no make up because they're not trying so hard. and i'm standing there all cute feeling sad with all my cute make up that makes me look gr8. i've had guys tell me how they prefer girls who aren't in to shopping because they're not so materialistic and they're not trying to burn a hole in their pocket. they laugh it off but it makes me feel uncomfortable. hell ye i love shopping and i'm not sorry but i feel like i should be. again this is just experiences, i know a ton of men who don't feel that way

 

[Ashtot]

Have you heard how much **** "girl gamers" get? More then guy gamers let me tell ya

Yeah that's another issue and it's to the point that there's a running gag on Reddit and in a lot of games where people just assume that everyone there is a guy which is really stupid.

- - - Post Merge - - -

sometimes it's not like they're inherently trying to be negative. i've had guys tell me how they prefer girls who wear no make up because they're not trying so hard. and i'm standing there all cute feeling sad with all my cute make up that makes me look gr8. i've had guys tell me how they prefer girls who aren't in to shopping because they're not so materialistic and they're not trying to burn a hole in their pocket. they laugh it off but it makes me feel uncomfortable. hell ye i love shopping and i'm not sorry but i feel like i should be. again this is just experiences, i know a ton of men who don't feel that way

Yeah that basically answers part of my question. It kinda seems like nitpicking and being overly critical of women. Personally I don't think that if girls enjoy makeup it means they're "trying too hard" or if they like shopping "they're materialistic" and realistically comparing them doesn't make that much sense, at least to me.

 

[Princess]

My question is why does that happen? Personally I don't understand why any of those things are negative.

I'm not a girl so I don't have as much insight but as a guy the only thing that I get put down for is actually gaming, not playing sports, and when I was younger it was fashion and shopping and things but I find people tend to be more accepting of that in guys recently. Gaming tends to still have a lot of negative connotations even today.

They definitely aren't negative things at all. They're just hobbies and everyone regardless of what they identify as should be allowed to enjoy what they like.

All throughout history, unfortunately this is a common theme. Anything feminine is deemed not a good thing, or at least not as good as it's male counterpart. For example, simply look at the English language. Most insults have a female connotation. Even when men are ridiculed, it's usually because they are showing some form of femininity.
Feminism is all about challenging the idea that certain things are reserved for certain genders

 

[Ashtot]

They definitely aren't negative things at all. They're just hobbies and everyone regardless of what they identify as should be allowed to enjoy what they like.

All throughout history, unfortunately this is a common theme. Anything feminine is deemed not a good thing, or at least not as good as it's male counterpart. For example, simply look at the English language. Most insults have a female connotation. Even when men are ridiculed, it's usually because they are showing some form of femininity.
Feminism is all about challenging the idea that certain things are reserved for certain genders

I mean it stems from Men being viewed as superior back in the day and it seems like a lot of people still have that mindset which is something I don't understand. I think it might have to do with the ratio of followers to leaders where there are so many followers who won't question what their taught compared to the few leaders who will rise up to make change?

 

[Princess]

I mean it stems from Men being viewed as superior back in the day and it seems like a lot of people still have that mindset which is something I don't understand. I think it might have to do with the ratio of followers to leaders where there are so many followers who won't question what their taught compared to the few leaders who will rise up to make change?

Yep for sure! It's been institutionalized within our society, and I'm sure you can see why it's so important for us to question things and ask why. Because then we begin to realize that actually half our population has been being treated quite unfairly for some time, and we should strive to make a change.

 

[Tao]

The origin for the name is because that "group" is not benefitting more than it's opposite currently. So it's a way to raise it to an equal level. But that's not all what feminism fights for.
The name doesn't really matter as much as the concept does.

Anyway, I'm definitely a feminist. Anyone that believes in in equality among all sexes is a feminist.

I know the origin of it, a change in title is just something that I think would help these days more so from how people tend to jump to conclusions based on the 'fem' in the title without doing any actual research, or how certain 'feminists' have pretty much tarnished the image in the eyes of a lot of people with their extremism.

But completely normal mundane traits that are neither positive or negative that girls have (liking makeup, clothes, shopping, going to the bathroom together, etc) are ridiculed.

I've never heard ridicule of girls liking makeup, shopping, clothes or going for group pee-pees, so it doesn't exist.

Being ignorant/a slob/too aggressive/etc are not mundane traits. They are negative traits as you yourself point out that are negative in both males in females and are not strictly "manly" characteristics i.e anyone of either gender can have a temper or be a slob whereas makeup etc are inherently "girly" characteristics.

If given that list of traits and told to apply them to one sex, most people would probably apply them to men.

They exist with both sexes, yes, but they're sterotypically male traits. Just as 'being emotional' applies with both genders yet is seen as a female thing.

Your attempt at equalizing this argument between men and women is ridiculous-

I'll stop you right there. I'm not trying to equalize anything or say that men have it equal or worse. I'm pointing out that men do in fact get ridiculed for a lot of the same things as girls do (such as "I'm not like other girls") even if you don't personally see it as well as things specifically for men, whilst you seem to be saying that this issue is only something that applies to women (which is rather sexist).

It may not be what you were implying, but it certainly came across that way to me.

 

[Jacob]

Have you heard how much **** "girl gamers" get? More then guy gamers let me tell ya

I have been reading a lot of these arguments, between ashtot, you, and others.

I just wanted to say, not all gamer girls get ****. Its the gamers that are cocky, fake, mean, etc. There are certainly guy gamers that get the same ****, even more sometimes. I have also seen many girls get ridiculed for wearing makeup more than a guy would. I am absolutely not taking sides for a specific gender here, I want to explain that I think everyone can get ridiculed for anything, not everyone is going to like what you do. Girls do not have it worse than Guys. Guys do not have it worse than Girls.

You guys all brought up very important points here, but you all also leave things out.

Guys have higher levels of testosterone, naturally, so they are usually gonna be more aggressive than girls. Its not a negative thing always.

Girls also have more of a gene (I appologize for forgetting the scientific name) that makes them more sensitive and insecure, which leads to them doing things to boost their confidence. This is also not a negative thing.

There is no point in arguing for why each gender is ridiculed, because frankly there is nothing we can do about it. I believe discussions like this are started so we can support one another and abolish discrimination and accusations, and understand our opposite genders a little better.
I always pity a girl who is being put down; girls should always pity a guy who is being put down. The people who are the biggest problems are the people who call someone out for their flaws and don't help them to fix 'em.
Let's not argue at each other, but argue with each other.

Sorry if this makes no sense, I am just voicing my opinion