It was this post, actually, but yeah, I’m the one who directed them to this thread in the first place. Also, the cooldown apparently has been lowered, so props to staff for actually listening to those suggestions.
The Official Feedback Thread
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
- Status
Oh no, I agree. When I first read through some of their first spoilers I thought those points sounded decent, but the further I read and when I came back with more time I realized how vile a lot of their other points were. And how they targeted Daring who was targeted before. So then I looked into their posts and found their intro and it was very fishy to structure it that way. Sure someone can have an all sheep and wolf island, but it was a little too obvious what they were trying to do.
I think every time someone brings up Goosey? it was because of my one post. I'm just really bad at structuring my posts and getting my message across. So people may see what I said in a way that I didn't intend. So that's my fault. My first reply to them was genuine as were the others, but I never thought it would blow up as much as it did and I wish I just had shut up and didn't say anything. Then none of this would had probably happened.
If they were really a user who struggled with a new language, I wouldn't have any issues with them. It was how dismissive they were being to everyone. My post was saying if I were to go to another forum that was in a language I was not familiar with or just learning I doubt everyone would be receptive of me if I was behaving the way Goosey was in the feedback thread. And if Goosey was a member of that forum I doubt they would be as welcoming to me as we tried to be to them, at first.
But if my post came across differently and it upset anyone I'm sorry.
Thanks for those links! I feel like I remember something being announced about moderators in 2023. They announced that Kilza and LadyDestani became moderators after space camp, but I swear there was some kind of annoucment where members could submit for candidacy for moderators. I wasn't very active barring space camp in 2023 cause life was crazy, but I remember seeing stuff about that?
yoshi only pointed in this direction after responding to a post that was asking if the forums were always this quiet. which no offence but to me feels like someone trying to set up a nonchalant point of entry into all of this. previous trolls/alts were more head on and upfront with their approach but this to me just reads as someone trying to create a narrative where they just "happened" to be led to this thread. it all feels a littttttle bit too convenient to me but that's just me and i'm probably way past the point of taking the bait
usually for me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck, but again that's just me. i'll keep my clown makeup on standby as well if i'm wrong because i'd like to think no one would waste time doing all that on an animal crossing forum for the sake of trolling/upsetting people.
no problem! :3 there's this from post 2021 as well that i missed when searching earlier. it's more recent than the other links i posted, but i couldn't come across a thread/ post later than that. this post also does a good job showing what the role of a moderator might entail.
Bo Selecta
Imma Bad Mofo
For the people who have taken issue with me even providing feedback in the first place: @Yoshi155 directed me to this thread shortly after I joined. I asked in here if it was ok to leave feedback and people were either happy for me to do so, or expressed no objection. My post asking if it was ok was there for several days, so I assumed it was ok. I do sort of suspect that the people who now are being vocal about wanting an account age restriction are doing so because they didn’t like what I had to say lol. That’s ok, I won’t take offence, even if you all continue to just talk about me to each other, instead of to me lmao.
I have to laugh at this one though. My introduction post is causing this much suspicion?
It is just about my current save file on acnh lol. Is that especially unusual on an Animal Crossing forum? If you want full context, my nickname is Bo Peep, but I own dogs that look like wolves. So I thought it would be fun to have an island based on that silly little piece of trivia about me. So it’s a sheep and wolf island. Nothing actually sinister. Why would I blatantly advertise being up to no good?
In case it was in question by the way “Imma Bad Mofo” is just more lyrics from a silly obscure British Christmas song from decades ago that my dad loves, which is what my username is also based on, along with my signature. I won't put the name in as it's a bit rude, but it reminds me of Christmas at my dad's house, which was my favourite.
I won't reply to everything, seeing as a lot of it is very similar and not all of it is even being expressed to me lol.
@daringred_ I doubt that you can really know what kind of person I am based upon one post, but it’s ok if you think badly of me. I really wasn’t trying to belittle your experience and I agree you ARE the victim of that particular incident and of being spoken to aggressively by the member who is now banned. But you were also a perpetrator elsewhere. It’s important to recognise both, not just perceive yourself as THE victim of this thread. You also hurt some people. I’m sure you want to hurt ME right now too lol. But hopefully in time you will see I wasn’t really attacking you at all. To reiterate, I understand why you are upset and it shouldn't have happened.
@Yoshi155 first of all, thank you for directing me to this thread and for helping me locate the additional threads to give me some greater context. Obviously I can’t read the whole site, nor do I know most of the history, so my post was purely based on observations. Like I said, I might have got things wrong and it was my hope that nobody would take my words too much to heart, based on that.
I also really want to thank you for taking the time to read and reply. Even though I know you are frustrated and I understand why, you have been nothing but nice and polite to me and that makes all the difference.
I’ll address some of your points.
I understand it would’ve been frustrating at the time that an apology was slow. But it’s done now. The apologies from staff for both of the incidents you mentioned have happened. So can they be put to bed? What good will come of complaining that an apology was belated? The apology has happened and that’s more than some people got.
As for noticing people being gone, the truth is I’m not. Most of the people who have profiles alluding to that are still here. Even if they’re not speaking, they’re reacting to posts. So that’s hopefully encouraging to know that most people haven’t really gone. They’re hanging around quietly, which would suggest they believe in this place still.
I don’t think it matters who said what, in terms of adults not messaging minors. My concern was with the very vocal pushback against the suggestion that adults shouldn’t message minors/minors shouldn’t blindly trust adults. The same people pushing back seem to be the same people who believe Chris is a danger to under 18s. I’m just trying to understand why, if you believe someone like that is on here, would you be so against restrictions on adult/minor interactions?
I know that to people who are in this situation, as in emotionally invested in the place and especially the people, it can seem like things are one way or the other. I’m saying as an outsider how it looks to me right now. You might not perceive something as rude, when to others it is. But equally you must be prepared to accept that things you believe are bad behaviour might seem perfectly acceptable to another member. Are you willing to reach a compromise on that?
I haven’t seen the ban message, so I can’t personally comment on that, though I do agree changing it from a week to a year with no notice doesn’t seem great. Like I also said though, I doubt that is an experience that is unique to one member. If it isn’t, would you endorse lifting the bans on others who were banned the same way? The reason I say this is because this is how the admins often did something similar on another forum. It would be something like a 48 hour ban to temporarily control a situation that was getting out of hand, then during the 48 hours the account would be reviewed. Is it possible this is what happened with Seliph? Would you accept that if it was? I’m not saying you have to, I’m just wondering your thoughts.
You’re using extreme examples though when you say about someone being subtly racist and people understandably reacting to that. That’s not what I witnessed from Seliph What I witnessed from Seliph was, to be frank, bullying people over having a different opinion. I doubt anyone wants me to present examples and I don’t know if I would feel it’s fair to do that anyway, considering this is a banned member. You probably wouldn’t enjoy reading things about you, when you’re unable to defend yourself or your position. So I don’t actually think it would be fair to do that to Seliph. What I AM saying though, is I CAN see why Seliph was banned, even if you can’t. It’s harder for those who are emotionally involved in the situation to see things clearly. Especially when they’ve taken a strong stance or side. But it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
I don’t get the impression Seliph was banned due to the posts directed at Daringred_. I believe those posts were just the final straw that broke the camel’s back. Especially as it was stated by Jeremy that Seliph had been told many times to stop this type of behaviour. There’s probably a lot that we don’t know. Certainly a lot I don’t know, but would you be willing to accept that maybe that means there’s things you don’t know either?
BetsySundrop was just one example of someone getting dog piled. But seeing as she’s the example you used, I’ll go with it. So my question would be, did multiple people need to tell her the same thing? Did people need to get aggressive and accusatory towards her? She was accused of ‘dangerous homophobic rhetoric’, which was unfounded and unfair. It made me, a total outsider, uncomfortable. Seeing her words getting twisted and her obvious distress at this, as more and more people stepped in to also confront her. Even if your sentiment is understandable and correct, there’s no need for that. I was glad that Jeremy stepped in. It was pretty late, which is an issue I know you’ve raised already, about the slow response from staff. It probably felt a long time to BetsySundrop too. But it seems staff members have been speedy in dealing with things lately, so I imagine this will improve.
You’re not part of the Discord server. I’m not part of the Discord server. We’ve heard different things. Neither of us know for sure. Fair? It doesn’t matter that another person thinks there were no violent undertones. Sheando perceived it that way and was frightened by it. Even putting the intent aside, do you think it is ok that there are people asking others in a private group chat to respond aggressively to a post? In this case, the member was likely completely unaware that such a group chat even exists and was wondering why everyone is suddenly on the attack at once? That left Sheando feeling vulnerable and that wasn’t fair. Sheando hasn’t requested or demanded a public apology, so why do the people involved in the distress caused to Sheando expect a public apology from a third party when someone else caused them distress? It needs to be more balanced than this.
Ok spoon retracted regarding GooseyGuos. I don’t know either way and if he’s banned, there’s little point discussing it. I obviously didn’t see everything. This was just my observation in this thread, I didn’t see him in any of the other threads I read, so maybe I’m way off. I wouldn’t want to debate it beyond telling you how it looked and that some handled it better than others, can we agree on that at least?
I don’t think Jeremy deserves any backlash over a troll getting in the place, especially as another staff member seemingly took care of it very quickly. It’s funny that some of you read it as Jeremy stepped in for GooseyGuos. I read it as he was telling the rest of you to ignore a potential troll, and I felt THAT was a bit mean, but I was obviously going off the assumption at the time that GooseyGuos was a real person, so I perceived it differently. Though it was perhaps becoming unclear by then whether it was GooseyGuos people were accusing of trolling, or another member. If GooseyGuos WAS a troll, then what did Jeremy do wrong in your eyes by telling you not to engage?
Yes I said I understood why Daringed_ was upset. Of course I do, and I’m sure it was a shock to her when it happened. But it was dealt with faster than anything else in this thread, I believe? And staff can’t just say that because Daringed_ was trolled, that means she’s allowed to continue calling other people names (which from my observations she was doing before this happened as well as after) or speaking to people aggressively. I know she feels she’s owed a public apology from staff, but I’d say the person who trolled her owes her this, rather than staff who really did deal with it thoroughly on this occasion.
I think it would be better all round to figure out what the current key issues are with the place, rather than get too hung up on a couple of posts here and there and demanding or expecting apologies at this stage. This whole argument isn’t really at an apology stage yet anyway is it? It’s still too angry. Wait til it calms down a bit. Probably once summer is properly over and people settle into Autumn reflection.
I understand you disagree that people were being overly aggressive and plenty of people will agree with you. That doesn’t mean they weren’t being aggressive or that others do feel people were being aggressive. Both opinions are valid, because they are opinions.
I don’t know if I want to start singling out every incident where someone was rude, particularly in the case of Seliph, as I’ve already stated. What good would it even do? I’d say it was rude, you’d probably say it wasn’t and then nothing is achieved but a whole new disagreement. So I won’t be doing that lol.
I hope that addresses most of your points.
@Aerith It’s fine, I understand people not trusting me, given all that has happened. For that reason, I think I’ll reconsider my membership here. It’s clear I won’t be welcome anytime soon and the last thing I want to do is cause anyone unnecessary distress or paranoia. I already feel a bit weird that people are going through my posts here and jumping to some insane conclusions, some of which I don’t understand at all, as it references things I haven’t got a clue about. But I get it and people have every right to feel suspicious. I’m glad you did at least notice that it was @Yoshi155 who directed me to this and not I sought it out.
Thanks everyone! Hope you get it all sorted out soon!
I have to laugh at this one though. My introduction post is causing this much suspicion?
It is just about my current save file on acnh lol. Is that especially unusual on an Animal Crossing forum? If you want full context, my nickname is Bo Peep, but I own dogs that look like wolves. So I thought it would be fun to have an island based on that silly little piece of trivia about me. So it’s a sheep and wolf island. Nothing actually sinister. Why would I blatantly advertise being up to no good?
In case it was in question by the way “Imma Bad Mofo” is just more lyrics from a silly obscure British Christmas song from decades ago that my dad loves, which is what my username is also based on, along with my signature. I won't put the name in as it's a bit rude, but it reminds me of Christmas at my dad's house, which was my favourite.
I won't reply to everything, seeing as a lot of it is very similar and not all of it is even being expressed to me lol.
@daringred_ I doubt that you can really know what kind of person I am based upon one post, but it’s ok if you think badly of me. I really wasn’t trying to belittle your experience and I agree you ARE the victim of that particular incident and of being spoken to aggressively by the member who is now banned. But you were also a perpetrator elsewhere. It’s important to recognise both, not just perceive yourself as THE victim of this thread. You also hurt some people. I’m sure you want to hurt ME right now too lol. But hopefully in time you will see I wasn’t really attacking you at all. To reiterate, I understand why you are upset and it shouldn't have happened.
@Yoshi155 first of all, thank you for directing me to this thread and for helping me locate the additional threads to give me some greater context. Obviously I can’t read the whole site, nor do I know most of the history, so my post was purely based on observations. Like I said, I might have got things wrong and it was my hope that nobody would take my words too much to heart, based on that.
I also really want to thank you for taking the time to read and reply. Even though I know you are frustrated and I understand why, you have been nothing but nice and polite to me and that makes all the difference.
I’ll address some of your points.
I understand it would’ve been frustrating at the time that an apology was slow. But it’s done now. The apologies from staff for both of the incidents you mentioned have happened. So can they be put to bed? What good will come of complaining that an apology was belated? The apology has happened and that’s more than some people got.
As for noticing people being gone, the truth is I’m not. Most of the people who have profiles alluding to that are still here. Even if they’re not speaking, they’re reacting to posts. So that’s hopefully encouraging to know that most people haven’t really gone. They’re hanging around quietly, which would suggest they believe in this place still.
I don’t think it matters who said what, in terms of adults not messaging minors. My concern was with the very vocal pushback against the suggestion that adults shouldn’t message minors/minors shouldn’t blindly trust adults. The same people pushing back seem to be the same people who believe Chris is a danger to under 18s. I’m just trying to understand why, if you believe someone like that is on here, would you be so against restrictions on adult/minor interactions?
I know that to people who are in this situation, as in emotionally invested in the place and especially the people, it can seem like things are one way or the other. I’m saying as an outsider how it looks to me right now. You might not perceive something as rude, when to others it is. But equally you must be prepared to accept that things you believe are bad behaviour might seem perfectly acceptable to another member. Are you willing to reach a compromise on that?
I haven’t seen the ban message, so I can’t personally comment on that, though I do agree changing it from a week to a year with no notice doesn’t seem great. Like I also said though, I doubt that is an experience that is unique to one member. If it isn’t, would you endorse lifting the bans on others who were banned the same way? The reason I say this is because this is how the admins often did something similar on another forum. It would be something like a 48 hour ban to temporarily control a situation that was getting out of hand, then during the 48 hours the account would be reviewed. Is it possible this is what happened with Seliph? Would you accept that if it was? I’m not saying you have to, I’m just wondering your thoughts.
You’re using extreme examples though when you say about someone being subtly racist and people understandably reacting to that. That’s not what I witnessed from Seliph What I witnessed from Seliph was, to be frank, bullying people over having a different opinion. I doubt anyone wants me to present examples and I don’t know if I would feel it’s fair to do that anyway, considering this is a banned member. You probably wouldn’t enjoy reading things about you, when you’re unable to defend yourself or your position. So I don’t actually think it would be fair to do that to Seliph. What I AM saying though, is I CAN see why Seliph was banned, even if you can’t. It’s harder for those who are emotionally involved in the situation to see things clearly. Especially when they’ve taken a strong stance or side. But it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
I don’t get the impression Seliph was banned due to the posts directed at Daringred_. I believe those posts were just the final straw that broke the camel’s back. Especially as it was stated by Jeremy that Seliph had been told many times to stop this type of behaviour. There’s probably a lot that we don’t know. Certainly a lot I don’t know, but would you be willing to accept that maybe that means there’s things you don’t know either?
BetsySundrop was just one example of someone getting dog piled. But seeing as she’s the example you used, I’ll go with it. So my question would be, did multiple people need to tell her the same thing? Did people need to get aggressive and accusatory towards her? She was accused of ‘dangerous homophobic rhetoric’, which was unfounded and unfair. It made me, a total outsider, uncomfortable. Seeing her words getting twisted and her obvious distress at this, as more and more people stepped in to also confront her. Even if your sentiment is understandable and correct, there’s no need for that. I was glad that Jeremy stepped in. It was pretty late, which is an issue I know you’ve raised already, about the slow response from staff. It probably felt a long time to BetsySundrop too. But it seems staff members have been speedy in dealing with things lately, so I imagine this will improve.
You’re not part of the Discord server. I’m not part of the Discord server. We’ve heard different things. Neither of us know for sure. Fair? It doesn’t matter that another person thinks there were no violent undertones. Sheando perceived it that way and was frightened by it. Even putting the intent aside, do you think it is ok that there are people asking others in a private group chat to respond aggressively to a post? In this case, the member was likely completely unaware that such a group chat even exists and was wondering why everyone is suddenly on the attack at once? That left Sheando feeling vulnerable and that wasn’t fair. Sheando hasn’t requested or demanded a public apology, so why do the people involved in the distress caused to Sheando expect a public apology from a third party when someone else caused them distress? It needs to be more balanced than this.
Ok spoon retracted regarding GooseyGuos. I don’t know either way and if he’s banned, there’s little point discussing it. I obviously didn’t see everything. This was just my observation in this thread, I didn’t see him in any of the other threads I read, so maybe I’m way off. I wouldn’t want to debate it beyond telling you how it looked and that some handled it better than others, can we agree on that at least?
I don’t think Jeremy deserves any backlash over a troll getting in the place, especially as another staff member seemingly took care of it very quickly. It’s funny that some of you read it as Jeremy stepped in for GooseyGuos. I read it as he was telling the rest of you to ignore a potential troll, and I felt THAT was a bit mean, but I was obviously going off the assumption at the time that GooseyGuos was a real person, so I perceived it differently. Though it was perhaps becoming unclear by then whether it was GooseyGuos people were accusing of trolling, or another member. If GooseyGuos WAS a troll, then what did Jeremy do wrong in your eyes by telling you not to engage?
Yes I said I understood why Daringed_ was upset. Of course I do, and I’m sure it was a shock to her when it happened. But it was dealt with faster than anything else in this thread, I believe? And staff can’t just say that because Daringed_ was trolled, that means she’s allowed to continue calling other people names (which from my observations she was doing before this happened as well as after) or speaking to people aggressively. I know she feels she’s owed a public apology from staff, but I’d say the person who trolled her owes her this, rather than staff who really did deal with it thoroughly on this occasion.
I think it would be better all round to figure out what the current key issues are with the place, rather than get too hung up on a couple of posts here and there and demanding or expecting apologies at this stage. This whole argument isn’t really at an apology stage yet anyway is it? It’s still too angry. Wait til it calms down a bit. Probably once summer is properly over and people settle into Autumn reflection.
I understand you disagree that people were being overly aggressive and plenty of people will agree with you. That doesn’t mean they weren’t being aggressive or that others do feel people were being aggressive. Both opinions are valid, because they are opinions.
I don’t know if I want to start singling out every incident where someone was rude, particularly in the case of Seliph, as I’ve already stated. What good would it even do? I’d say it was rude, you’d probably say it wasn’t and then nothing is achieved but a whole new disagreement. So I won’t be doing that lol.
I hope that addresses most of your points.
@Aerith It’s fine, I understand people not trusting me, given all that has happened. For that reason, I think I’ll reconsider my membership here. It’s clear I won’t be welcome anytime soon and the last thing I want to do is cause anyone unnecessary distress or paranoia. I already feel a bit weird that people are going through my posts here and jumping to some insane conclusions, some of which I don’t understand at all, as it references things I haven’t got a clue about. But I get it and people have every right to feel suspicious. I’m glad you did at least notice that it was @Yoshi155 who directed me to this and not I sought it out.
Thanks everyone! Hope you get it all sorted out soon!
Thank you! I fixed it, thought that was the post I copied but apparently not
edit: forgot to refresh before replying and didn't see the other posts. might edit this later when I have time
edit 2: I definitely don't have time rn to address all of these posts, but when I was catching up I noticed Yoshi mentioned me before my last post. I just wanted to correct 2 things:
1. I never said minors shouldn't message adults. Just because I can understand how somehow comes to think a certain way, doesn't mean I agree with it. I don't approve of multiple people pushing one person into a corner over a harmless difference of opinion. This also doesn't mean I think all opinions are harmless, in case someone wants to infer that.
2. If you'll look at this post, I have a lot of criticisms towards how Chris has handled things, so I wouldn't say that I was "okay" with his behavior.
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It would be nice to know whether or not people applying for a moderator position are going to be screened for bigoted beliefs. A discord server I am in has policies which they hold to a very high degree for all members and staff and owners is that the presence of bigotry is extremely intolerable and nobody wants to see bigots dare try and make an attempt to make themselves welcome in the discord server and BLM, LGBTQA+ rights, etc. are incredibly important to staff. During the moderator application process members are basically questioned if they are or aren't a bigot and if they aren't please explain why
It is seriously not my intention to insinuate Jeremy or anyone else on staff team is a bigot but considering the fact issues of racism, ableism, transphobia, homophobia and possibly more being brought to attention on site I am merely concerned that someone with bigoted beliefs inside their heart will consider applying for staff and could abuse their moderator privileges. Please correct me if I'm gravely mistaken but I don't really believe women, POC, LGBTQA+ members and Neurodivergent people feel very comfortable on this site considering some posts I've seen on this forum over the years, some were kept up for a long time, some might still be up. I only want to see people with nothing but good intentions and who genuinely want to make this site be a good place be accepted as moderators.
I just don't think there's any harm about me bringing this whole thing up, recently on some LGBTQA+ related Subreddits I've seen it being exposed that some of the mods actually harbor some kind of transphobic beliefs that they have been trying to keep a secret for a long time and I just don't want to see more places on the internet turn out like this, I just don't want to see more people who should've never became a moderator become moderators of online communities with large amounts of marginalized groups in them. Once again this is not targeted at TBT staff like "I bet some mods here are like this too!"
As an Autistic and Queer person who is neither straight nor cisgender it deeply saddens me to see ableist and lesbophobic comments being made on this site recently. I genuinely hope that nobody on this site needs to experience targeted bigotry ever again, I genuinely hope that nobody on this site needs to experience those vile disgusting comments made towards Oblivia and speaking of Oblivia I don't think this bigotry was her fault at all and I greatly appreciate her stepping out of her way to handle the situation as quickly as she could.
About these "trolls" or whatever you wish to call them that have been coming to the site recently. Is this feedback thread genuinely driving a lot of traffic to The Bell Tree Forums as a website? Blue already brought this up but if these are new members why do they like this thread so much? There's 617,093 threads for them to explore but this is their favorite one? What do new members gain from throwing themselves into a messy situation in which they are probably missing a lot of context? There's active veteran members who seem to be avoiding this thread seeing as I've never seen them post in here or react to any messages in here, so yeah not everyone on TBT seems to want to read or participate in this thread.
Are these people actually new members who randomly want to join and participate in this thread for whatever reason or are these people's alt accounts? Maybe these people are not actually "trolls" but I just find some behavior that has occurred in this thread several times to be just a little bit strange, a little bit odd, is that wrong of me?
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So to start this post I'll have to give a heads up: it's currently 3 AM here and I am writing this after 5 straight hours of reading TBT posts to catch up. I'm doing my best to write this one quickly so that I can go to sleep, please forgive me if the sentences are weird or if anything here can be interpreted as being in poor taste, I'll gladly clarify and discuss my points later if anyone asks.
Most of all, this post is an apology for inactivity. I have a brain that has two settings: wanting to do a thing really badly or just not at all. The combination of A.) my private life becoming very hectic and B.) TBT becoming a stressful endeavour to keep up with made moderating land entirely within the second category. For a while, I couldn't bring myself to click the bookmark, let alone make an attempt at engaging with *gestures vaguely*. It basically took certain people to near their breaking points before I managed to motivate myself back into action and I am so sorry for that, to all the members who rightfully got fed up by the lack of progress and updates, and also to my fellow staff who have already heard that in private channels. I have to say I am mighty impressed with the way LadyDestani's consistent efforts. I have no good reason other than "I really, really couldn't bring myself to check in" which honestly isn't good enough and I'm not sure what to say about it other than "yeah, sorry" which doesn't feel like it's sufficient but it's as much as I can do and better than nothing.
I have already summarised my feelings, questions and certain concerns to the other staff members privately, and I hope to start actively weighing in again in this thread as well.
The way things are, we're going to need an updated set of rules (along with pre-determined consequences) sooner rather than later. The sentiment I've seen among staff is not necessarily that we need more people pushing buttons, but that we need more people to weigh in to make decisions faster. There are a few things that we want to cover quickly. The rule rewrite is one of those. Regaining the ability to get a grip on situations as they unfold is another. The silly events are lower in priority, and thus will remain on the back seat for a bit.
While things like dealing with reports and moving threads are definitely moderator responsibilities, I believe the initial focus would mostly be on helping out by providing input and opinions. The exact details of how to proceed for that are still being worked out.
As for the trolls, they most likely came from people with pre-existing grudges against the site trying to escalate the situation, given how they seem to arrive with at least some knowledge of the site and its members. I'm sorry to see how it has affected this thread and the members on here. There are proposals in the private staff channel to try to limit who can post here (based on, say, account age and/or post count) to slow them down, although implementing that might not be trivial. I suppose we'll be doing our best to delete them as they arise in the meantime.
That's all I have time for for now. I hope to see you all later.
- Mick
Most of all, this post is an apology for inactivity. I have a brain that has two settings: wanting to do a thing really badly or just not at all. The combination of A.) my private life becoming very hectic and B.) TBT becoming a stressful endeavour to keep up with made moderating land entirely within the second category. For a while, I couldn't bring myself to click the bookmark, let alone make an attempt at engaging with *gestures vaguely*. It basically took certain people to near their breaking points before I managed to motivate myself back into action and I am so sorry for that, to all the members who rightfully got fed up by the lack of progress and updates, and also to my fellow staff who have already heard that in private channels. I have to say I am mighty impressed with the way LadyDestani's consistent efforts. I have no good reason other than "I really, really couldn't bring myself to check in" which honestly isn't good enough and I'm not sure what to say about it other than "yeah, sorry" which doesn't feel like it's sufficient but it's as much as I can do and better than nothing.
I have already summarised my feelings, questions and certain concerns to the other staff members privately, and I hope to start actively weighing in again in this thread as well.
I don't think there will be an interview process like the one you outlined, but someone's history on the site and known opinions would certainly be taken into consideration as an intolerant bigot would not be able to properly fit in with the userbase and existing staff team, given the diversity of both. A judgment of character will definitely be made before people are accepted! So if anyone here has anything against the minorities of TBT (or elsewhere), all I can say is don't bother reaching out about helping the staff.
The way things are, we're going to need an updated set of rules (along with pre-determined consequences) sooner rather than later. The sentiment I've seen among staff is not necessarily that we need more people pushing buttons, but that we need more people to weigh in to make decisions faster. There are a few things that we want to cover quickly. The rule rewrite is one of those. Regaining the ability to get a grip on situations as they unfold is another. The silly events are lower in priority, and thus will remain on the back seat for a bit.
While things like dealing with reports and moving threads are definitely moderator responsibilities, I believe the initial focus would mostly be on helping out by providing input and opinions. The exact details of how to proceed for that are still being worked out.
As for the trolls, they most likely came from people with pre-existing grudges against the site trying to escalate the situation, given how they seem to arrive with at least some knowledge of the site and its members. I'm sorry to see how it has affected this thread and the members on here. There are proposals in the private staff channel to try to limit who can post here (based on, say, account age and/or post count) to slow them down, although implementing that might not be trivial. I suppose we'll be doing our best to delete them as they arise in the meantime.
That's all I have time for for now. I hope to see you all later.
- Mick
I had not intended to ever return to this thread, because the amount of insulting and twisting of words that I keep seeing has me very wary about engaging with anyone on any topic. TBT was the one corner of the internet where, previously, I DIDN’T expect to see this sort of “wait, you have concerns about X? So you must think I’m Y, huh? I bet you do! I can’t believe you’d say I’m Y!” sort of behavior. Some of the leaps here have genuinely baffled and disheartened me, as members can explicitly post “I do not mean Y. Y would not be true. I mean something completely different.” and it won’t even matter. This not a veiled statement about one interaction or post, this has been my perception of several of the reactions in this thread from various people, many of whom do not agree with me or each other. I don’t have close connections to any users here and do not feel uniquely antagonistic or defensive toward anyone.
However, since I’ve been mentioned by name in several posts over the last ten pages or so, I would like to respectfully request that members stop framing my single removed post in this thread as evidence that I literally believed someone would enact literal violence against me or that I felt unsafe because I perceived violent language to be a proxy for intent and ability to do real physical harm to me. Nobody on this forum has any knowledge about my identity or location as far as I know and I expressly stated in my original post that I was aware the language was hyperbole.
I am still uncomfortable with that whole situation—I am uncomfortable with being messaged information out of the blue with no context, and I am uncomfortable with potentially being mocked and dogpiled in private chats offsite. I’m uncomfortable that multiple people messaged me asking for me to reveal the identities of other people involved; which I declined to do every time. From the beginning, what made me take a huge step back and disengage was the realization that this forum was not a place where we were all engaging primarily in visible threads, aware of critical or positive responses and sharing one larger community—that there was in fact an influential subset of members (doubtless more than one subset) who were discussing specific users and posts among themselves, planning responses, and saying playfully mean, insulting, or inflammatory things about them, and users who might then report snippets of that conversation to outsiders at select times for unknown reasons, etc. I have no desire to be publicly vulnerable on this site or provide honest feedback if I know that it is likely my words will be privately dissected, twisted, and vilified without me ever even being aware, and that this will in turn become a huge invisible factor in how people interact with me in a space where I previously felt safe. I simply don’t want to go there. As an autistic person, that is pretty much already my worst social nightmare. I also feel uncomfortable with being used by other members as proof that so-and-so is untrustworthy or “homicidal” or whatever. My concerns are primarily about an overall atmosphere of bad faith interpretations and outsized reactions, not a singular instance of the word “kill.”
I don’t consider most of this particularly actionable by staff, except to step in when public forum posts cross the line into insults and to strongly denounce unacceptable language like homophobia. You’re allowed to talk amongst your friends however you like about whatever you like, and other people are allowed to feel upset or creeped out if they discover that you’ve been talking about them behind their backs. That’s kind of the human experience. I didn’t delete my post as a grand statement or accusation. I deleted it because I was not in a good headspace to respond to the personal attacks that started almost immediately, some public and some private and some “in the works,” and I didn’t want TBT to become that kind of place for me.
Finally, I just want to agree with everyone who has suggested a restriction on posting in this thread for new members. I am not typically suspicious, but after the first few posts, I was thinking “why on earth would somebody who just joined the forum be SO invested in arguing with older members about topics or events they can’t possibly even have experienced yet?” At worst it opens the door for deliberate trolling or even targeted attacks—I didn’t see the newest account removed in under an hour, but I’m grossed out to hear that it happened and I actually agree with daringred that staff should have directly acknowledged the homophobic nature of the post and the user’s removal immediately. At best, it is difficult for it to be productive, as new users literally cannot have an informed opinion on previous site events or ongoing conflicts. Most feedback threads, like the AI one or future threads about what people want to see in event requirements or moderation standards going forward, make a lot more sense as a place to welcome the thoughts of people who just joined.
However, since I’ve been mentioned by name in several posts over the last ten pages or so, I would like to respectfully request that members stop framing my single removed post in this thread as evidence that I literally believed someone would enact literal violence against me or that I felt unsafe because I perceived violent language to be a proxy for intent and ability to do real physical harm to me. Nobody on this forum has any knowledge about my identity or location as far as I know and I expressly stated in my original post that I was aware the language was hyperbole.
I am still uncomfortable with that whole situation—I am uncomfortable with being messaged information out of the blue with no context, and I am uncomfortable with potentially being mocked and dogpiled in private chats offsite. I’m uncomfortable that multiple people messaged me asking for me to reveal the identities of other people involved; which I declined to do every time. From the beginning, what made me take a huge step back and disengage was the realization that this forum was not a place where we were all engaging primarily in visible threads, aware of critical or positive responses and sharing one larger community—that there was in fact an influential subset of members (doubtless more than one subset) who were discussing specific users and posts among themselves, planning responses, and saying playfully mean, insulting, or inflammatory things about them, and users who might then report snippets of that conversation to outsiders at select times for unknown reasons, etc. I have no desire to be publicly vulnerable on this site or provide honest feedback if I know that it is likely my words will be privately dissected, twisted, and vilified without me ever even being aware, and that this will in turn become a huge invisible factor in how people interact with me in a space where I previously felt safe. I simply don’t want to go there. As an autistic person, that is pretty much already my worst social nightmare. I also feel uncomfortable with being used by other members as proof that so-and-so is untrustworthy or “homicidal” or whatever. My concerns are primarily about an overall atmosphere of bad faith interpretations and outsized reactions, not a singular instance of the word “kill.”
I don’t consider most of this particularly actionable by staff, except to step in when public forum posts cross the line into insults and to strongly denounce unacceptable language like homophobia. You’re allowed to talk amongst your friends however you like about whatever you like, and other people are allowed to feel upset or creeped out if they discover that you’ve been talking about them behind their backs. That’s kind of the human experience. I didn’t delete my post as a grand statement or accusation. I deleted it because I was not in a good headspace to respond to the personal attacks that started almost immediately, some public and some private and some “in the works,” and I didn’t want TBT to become that kind of place for me.
Finally, I just want to agree with everyone who has suggested a restriction on posting in this thread for new members. I am not typically suspicious, but after the first few posts, I was thinking “why on earth would somebody who just joined the forum be SO invested in arguing with older members about topics or events they can’t possibly even have experienced yet?” At worst it opens the door for deliberate trolling or even targeted attacks—I didn’t see the newest account removed in under an hour, but I’m grossed out to hear that it happened and I actually agree with daringred that staff should have directly acknowledged the homophobic nature of the post and the user’s removal immediately. At best, it is difficult for it to be productive, as new users literally cannot have an informed opinion on previous site events or ongoing conflicts. Most feedback threads, like the AI one or future threads about what people want to see in event requirements or moderation standards going forward, make a lot more sense as a place to welcome the thoughts of people who just joined.
Reginald Fairfield
Senior Member
That would feel like stepping in front of a train at this point.
I checked in on the site because I hadn't received any emails about announcements or events lately and... wow. I did not know what I was getting into.
I spent the whole evening just reading through the thread, but I've still only read like the last quarter of it (I'm a very slow reader...) I don't think I want to read the rest, because it's made me sad enough already.
I'm not sure if this place is the right fit for me anymore
Not because of the issues raised in this thread (I won't comment on those since it wouldn't feel right without reading everything from the beginning), but from what I've observed and learnt from the fraction I did read.
I have extreme social anxiety, so I don't post much outside of new ac releases and site events (and those times are some of the most socializing I do... like ever). I have so much anxiety surrounding social interaction and I try to tell myself that my fears are irrational but... it seems they really are founded
Apparently there are discord servers where people talk about other members behind their back?? I'm always worried that I'm annoying, that everyone secretly hates me, and now I'm worried there's people out there talking to each other about how much they don't like me (I probably increased the likelihood tenfold just by making this post; they probably didn't even remember I existed before .__.)
I've always had excessive overthinking about likes- am I liking too much? Too little? Which reaction is the most appropriate? What if I like both person A and person B's posts in a thread, but they have beef with each other I don't know about and now they're mad at me? I tried telling myself no one pays that much attention to likes, but apparently they do???
And then the realization: am I even more socially incompetent than I thought I was????? This thread felt like everyone was reading completely different posts than me, because the responses to each other would be so hostile, and I would have no idea what in that previous post caused such a strong reaction. I feel like I'm stupid and missing something extremely obvious. If I'm that oblivious, then it's probably best if I don't post at all, since eventually I might also upset someone that much. I think I'm too mentally unwell and oversensitive to be on the internet, because if I got a response like that, I would burst into tears...
Anyways, I don't know why I bothered to make such a long, melodramatic post. I guess it would feel weird to just disappear without a word... not that anyone would notice with how inactive I am lol
Thank you TBT for all the joy you've given me over the years, and best of luck with the overhaul <3
I spent the whole evening just reading through the thread, but I've still only read like the last quarter of it (I'm a very slow reader...) I don't think I want to read the rest, because it's made me sad enough already.
I'm not sure if this place is the right fit for me anymore
Not because of the issues raised in this thread (I won't comment on those since it wouldn't feel right without reading everything from the beginning), but from what I've observed and learnt from the fraction I did read.I have extreme social anxiety, so I don't post much outside of new ac releases and site events (and those times are some of the most socializing I do... like ever). I have so much anxiety surrounding social interaction and I try to tell myself that my fears are irrational but... it seems they really are founded
Apparently there are discord servers where people talk about other members behind their back?? I'm always worried that I'm annoying, that everyone secretly hates me, and now I'm worried there's people out there talking to each other about how much they don't like me (I probably increased the likelihood tenfold just by making this post; they probably didn't even remember I existed before .__.)
I've always had excessive overthinking about likes- am I liking too much? Too little? Which reaction is the most appropriate? What if I like both person A and person B's posts in a thread, but they have beef with each other I don't know about and now they're mad at me? I tried telling myself no one pays that much attention to likes, but apparently they do???
And then the realization: am I even more socially incompetent than I thought I was????? This thread felt like everyone was reading completely different posts than me, because the responses to each other would be so hostile, and I would have no idea what in that previous post caused such a strong reaction. I feel like I'm stupid and missing something extremely obvious. If I'm that oblivious, then it's probably best if I don't post at all, since eventually I might also upset someone that much. I think I'm too mentally unwell and oversensitive to be on the internet, because if I got a response like that, I would burst into tears...
Anyways, I don't know why I bothered to make such a long, melodramatic post. I guess it would feel weird to just disappear without a word... not that anyone would notice with how inactive I am lol
Thank you TBT for all the joy you've given me over the years, and best of luck with the overhaul <3
Troll Accounts
Hi everyone,
I want to acknowledge that there was yet another troll attack today, once again targeting at daringred_. This makes two troll accounts created for the sole purpose of attacking her and one account created to attack -Lumi- within a very short time. Not only were these accounts intended as personal attacks towards these members, they also took aim at their sexuality making them homophobic as well. We take both of these issues very seriously. The accounts have been deleted along with all of their posts, but despite that we as a staff team recognize how upsetting this must be for the individuals involved and everyone on the forum who has had to witness these occurrences.
The trolls have not only appeared in threads. As Oblivia mentioned previously, they have, and last I heard still were, sending emails through the Contact Us link. They also submitted multiple responses to the recent survey, but we were easily able to identify and disregard their answers.
I'm going to address a few things so everyone can be on the same page. First, we're fairly certain that most, if not all, of these trolls are originating from the social sphere of a certain member who was permanently banned from this site about a year and a half ago for severely transphobic behavior. I won't mention that person's name, not out of any desire to protect them, but because the acknowledgement would likely only feed their ego. This person and their friend group harassed and made real world threats towards Chris for simply existing. They are still disturbingly obsessed with this forum based on social media posts that many of you have brought to our attention and they have friends who have publicly stated they enjoy trolling this site. One member known to associate with this group made a post aimed at daringred_ shortly after the first troll was dealt with. We have strong evidence to indicate that they were behind that particular account, so they were permanently banned as well.
There are different kinds of troll/alt accounts emerging. This could potentially indicate multiple sources, meaning different people behind accounts who may or may not have the same goals. Some are more obvious, others less so. The types of troll accounts where they attempt to fit in and act like a genuine member while subtly, or sometimes not so subtly, stirring up drama are the most frustrating from a moderation perspective. They disguise themselves just well enough to delay our action because we don't want to drive away innocent new members.
On that note, there has been a lot of suspicion around new accounts lately, and while it's certainly reasonable to be cautious in the face of everything that's happened recently, I would like to point out that calling a potential new member a troll or saying they're speaking or acting like a troll is highly insulting if they are, in fact, not a troll. If you're in doubt, please report the individual and let the staff team figure it out. It may take us some time to come to a definitive conclusion, but we will take it seriously. In fact, we're keeping a closer eye on all new members currently just to try to get a handle on this situation.
With that said, I am temporarily locking this thread. This is absolutely not intended to silence feedback. You may still share your views through CTS, DM, Contact Us, or by creating individual threads in HQ based on specific topics. We plan to move much of the conversation to separate, topic-based, feedback threads soon anyway as this thread has become unwieldy and it's easy for things to get lost in the jumble. I'm taking this action because the Feedback Thread has been the main target, where the trolls have a spotlight, and I'm hoping by cutting this avenue off for a while they will be discouraged from posting further. We're looking into the possibility of requiring accounts to reach a certain age or post count before posting here, but that's not something that can be flipped on like a switch. It will take a little time to build, if it's possible.
I'm not sure when we'll reopen this thread. I'm wary of giving a date as I'm sure the trolls will be waiting for it, but we'll keep you informed.
Again, this is not meant to halt the conversation, so please reach out to us if there's anything you'd like to discuss.
I want to acknowledge that there was yet another troll attack today, once again targeting at daringred_. This makes two troll accounts created for the sole purpose of attacking her and one account created to attack -Lumi- within a very short time. Not only were these accounts intended as personal attacks towards these members, they also took aim at their sexuality making them homophobic as well. We take both of these issues very seriously. The accounts have been deleted along with all of their posts, but despite that we as a staff team recognize how upsetting this must be for the individuals involved and everyone on the forum who has had to witness these occurrences.
The trolls have not only appeared in threads. As Oblivia mentioned previously, they have, and last I heard still were, sending emails through the Contact Us link. They also submitted multiple responses to the recent survey, but we were easily able to identify and disregard their answers.
I'm going to address a few things so everyone can be on the same page. First, we're fairly certain that most, if not all, of these trolls are originating from the social sphere of a certain member who was permanently banned from this site about a year and a half ago for severely transphobic behavior. I won't mention that person's name, not out of any desire to protect them, but because the acknowledgement would likely only feed their ego. This person and their friend group harassed and made real world threats towards Chris for simply existing. They are still disturbingly obsessed with this forum based on social media posts that many of you have brought to our attention and they have friends who have publicly stated they enjoy trolling this site. One member known to associate with this group made a post aimed at daringred_ shortly after the first troll was dealt with. We have strong evidence to indicate that they were behind that particular account, so they were permanently banned as well.
There are different kinds of troll/alt accounts emerging. This could potentially indicate multiple sources, meaning different people behind accounts who may or may not have the same goals. Some are more obvious, others less so. The types of troll accounts where they attempt to fit in and act like a genuine member while subtly, or sometimes not so subtly, stirring up drama are the most frustrating from a moderation perspective. They disguise themselves just well enough to delay our action because we don't want to drive away innocent new members.
On that note, there has been a lot of suspicion around new accounts lately, and while it's certainly reasonable to be cautious in the face of everything that's happened recently, I would like to point out that calling a potential new member a troll or saying they're speaking or acting like a troll is highly insulting if they are, in fact, not a troll. If you're in doubt, please report the individual and let the staff team figure it out. It may take us some time to come to a definitive conclusion, but we will take it seriously. In fact, we're keeping a closer eye on all new members currently just to try to get a handle on this situation.
With that said, I am temporarily locking this thread. This is absolutely not intended to silence feedback. You may still share your views through CTS, DM, Contact Us, or by creating individual threads in HQ based on specific topics. We plan to move much of the conversation to separate, topic-based, feedback threads soon anyway as this thread has become unwieldy and it's easy for things to get lost in the jumble. I'm taking this action because the Feedback Thread has been the main target, where the trolls have a spotlight, and I'm hoping by cutting this avenue off for a while they will be discouraged from posting further. We're looking into the possibility of requiring accounts to reach a certain age or post count before posting here, but that's not something that can be flipped on like a switch. It will take a little time to build, if it's possible.
I'm not sure when we'll reopen this thread. I'm wary of giving a date as I'm sure the trolls will be waiting for it, but we'll keep you informed.
Again, this is not meant to halt the conversation, so please reach out to us if there's anything you'd like to discuss.
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- Status
