Feminism Discussion Thread

[Tao]

Girls also have more of a gene (I appologize for forgetting the scientific name)

I think you mean Estrogen (though I feel I'm wrong)

 

[pillow bunny]

i haven't read all the new posts yet but @Jacob_Lawall the myth that boys and girls have different brains has been debunked, all behavioural differences are a result of social conditioning

 

[pillow bunny]

i haven't read all the new posts yet, but @Jacob_Lawall the myth that boys and girls have different brains has been debunked, all behavioural differences are a result of social conditioning

 

[Princess]

@Tao
Orrrrr, people could do some quick research and learn what feminism is all about. Having to change to name so it benefits the group that's already benefiting from society is pretty counterproductive, not to mention kind of ironic.

 

[piichinu]

Girls are insecure because they've been raised to have to impress everyone around them and their only worth lies in their appearance

Girls do have it worse than guys, I really don't want to make this into a contest like some people already have, but since it's been mentioned already...

 

[Ashtot]

@Tao
Orrrrr, people could do some quick research and learn what feminism is all about. Having to change to name so it benefits the group that's already benefiting from society is pretty counterproductive, not to mention kind of ironic.

That's the struggle though. The people that see feminism as something negative will be the same people to not bother to research it in most cases.

 

[kayleee]

I know the origin of it, a change in title is just something that I think would help these days more so from how people tend to jump to conclusions based on the 'fem' in the title without doing any actual research, or how certain 'feminists' have pretty much tarnished the image in the eyes of a lot of people with their extremism.





I've never heard ridicule of girls liking makeup, shopping, clothes or going for group pee-pees, so it doesn't exist.





If given that list of traits and told to apply them to one sex, most people would probably apply them to men.

They exist with both sexes, yes, but they're sterotypically male traits. Just as 'being emotional' applies with both genders yet is seen as a female thing.




I'll stop you right there. I'm not trying to equalize anything or say that men have it equal or worse. I'm pointing out that men do in fact get ridiculed for a lot of the same things as girls do (such as "I'm not like other girls") even if you don't personally see it as well as things specifically for men, whilst you seem to be saying that this issue is only something that applies to women (which is rather sexist).

It may not be what you were implying, but it certainly came across that way to me.

Yeah but so what if males have a bunch of negative traits associated with them females do too and they're exactly that - NEGATIVE TRAITS whereas RIDICULE FOR SOMETHING AS MUNDANE AS WEARING MAKEUP is NOT a negative trait and thus women face ridicule for something that is completely harmless and is NOT negative yet they still get ridiculed for it being ridiculed for having a temper is different than BEING RIDICULED FOR LIKING TO GO TO THE MALL EVERY DAY

I'm not implying girls "have it worse." I'm saying that girls are ridiculed and shamed for SIMPLY BEING A GIRL. Men displaying SIMPLE FEMININE CHARACTERISTICS makes them eligible to be RIDICULED. BEING A GIRL = BAD. ACTING LIKE GIRL = BAD. GIRL = BAD

MUNDANE MALE CHARACTERISTICS LIKE BEING ATHLETIC AND GOOD AT VIDEO GAMES / WHATEVER IS SEEN IN MEN AS GOOD. Mundane masculine chsracteristics in females = BAD. Which leads to females facing ridicule if they are too girly OR too manly. Is there any other way I can explain this to you do the caps help

 

[Princess]

I have been reading a lot of these arguments, between ashtot, you, and others.

I just wanted to say, not all gamer girls get ****. Its the gamers that are cocky, fake, mean, etc. There are certainly guy gamers that get the same ****, even more sometimes. I have also seen many girls get ridiculed for wearing makeup more than a guy would. I am absolutely not taking sides for a specific gender here, I want to explain that I think everyone can get ridiculed for anything, not everyone is going to like what you do. Girls do not have it worse than Guys. Guys do not have it worse than Girls.

You guys all brought up very important points here, but you all also leave things out.

Guys have higher levels of testosterone, naturally, so they are usually gonna be more aggressive than girls. Its not a negative thing always.

Girls also have more of a gene (I appologize for forgetting the scientific name) that makes them more sensitive and insecure, which leads to them doing things to boost their confidence. This is also not a negative thing.

There is no point in arguing for why each gender is ridiculed, because frankly there is nothing we can do about it. I believe discussions like this are started so we can support one another and abolish discrimination and accusations, and understand our opposite genders a little better.
I always pity a girl who is being put down; girls should always pity a guy who is being put down. The people who are the biggest problems are the people who call someone out for their flaws and don't help them to fix 'em.
Let's not argue at each other, but argue with each other.

Sorry if this makes no sense, I am just voicing my opinion

Hi, nursing student here.
The hormone testosterone does not make humans more aggressive. That's a pretty common myth, but it doesn't lead to increased aggression in individuals.

Also what you're referring to is probably estrogen and progesterone in females. Women have two cycles going on with their reproductive system that utilizes these two hormones. Does it make them more sensitive and insecure? Er.. not necessarily, since that's pretty subjective. But when these hormones peak and dip within the cycles, they can subject women to various moods.

EDIT: Wanna add to this, since I left it kind off kind of vague.
This does not mean all women get extreme mood swings, blah blah, typical pms stereotype

 

[Jacob]

I think you mean Estrogen (though I feel I'm wrong)

I think you might be right.

i haven't read all the new posts yet but @Jacob_Lawall the myth that boys and girls have different brains has been debunked, all behavioural differences are a result of social conditioning

Spoiler: 13+ please.

"Women have lower levels of testosterone than men because this is their way their bodies are designed. The main sex hormone in women, produced by the ovaries, is estrogen, which tends to promote the storage of fat rather than its breakdown. On the other hand, the main sex hormone in men is testosterone, produced by the testicles, which tends to promote the formation of muscle mass. "
https://www.zocdoc.com/answers/7750/why-do-women-have-lower-levels-of-testosterone-than-men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

- - - Post Merge - - -

Hi, nursing student here.
The hormone testosterone does not make humans more aggressive. That's a pretty common myth, but it doesn't lead to increased aggression in individuals.

Also what you're referring to is probably estrogen and progesterone in females. Women have two cycles going on with their reproductive system that utilizes these two hormones. Does it make them more sensitive and insecure? Er.. not necessarily, since that's pretty subjective. But when these hormones peak and dip within the cycles, they can subject women to various moods.

EDIT: Wanna add to this, since I left it kind off kind of vague.
This does not mean all women get extreme mood swings, blah blah, typical pms stereotype

Ah I see, Thank you for clarifying.

 

[piichinu]

Also not all women are biologically women/dont have access to hormones so yeah

 

[pillow bunny]

I think you might be right.

Spoiler: 13+ please.

"Women have lower levels of testosterone than men because this is their way their bodies are designed. The main sex hormone in women, produced by the ovaries, is estrogen, which tends to promote the storage of fat rather than its breakdown. On the other hand, the main sex hormone in men is testosterone, produced by the testicles, which tends to promote the formation of muscle mass. "
https://www.zocdoc.com/answers/7750/why-do-women-have-lower-levels-of-testosterone-than-men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

uh yeah, i'm not denying that they exist
they just don't affect behaviour

 

[kayleee]

I think you might be right.

Spoiler: 13+ please.

"Women have lower levels of testosterone than men because this is their way their bodies are designed. The main sex hormone in women, produced by the ovaries, is estrogen, which tends to promote the storage of fat rather than its breakdown. On the other hand, the main sex hormone in men is testosterone, produced by the testicles, which tends to promote the formation of muscle mass. "
https://www.zocdoc.com/answers/7750/why-do-women-have-lower-levels-of-testosterone-than-men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

That says absolutely nothing to support that men and women act differently because of their respective sex hormone

 

[Princess]

That's the struggle though. The people that see feminism as something negative will be the same people to not bother to research it in most cases.

I agree 300 million percent. But it's literally the equivalent to blurting out ALL LIVES MATTER, when someone says Black Lives Matter.
Like..when we say Save the Rainforests are we saying **** All Other Forests?? No! Highlighting, and giving spotlight to ONE underprivileged group DOES NOT MEAN we are dismissing all other groups and their own struggles

 

[Ashtot]

Again I think it comes back to the follower mentality. A white cop shoots a black guy and the media portrays it as how white cops are racist and suddenly you have millions of people that just assume and continually talk about how racist white cops are, even though that was only one case. (Sorry that's probably a really bad analogy).

- - - Post Merge - - -

I think it kinda comes down to that a huge chunk of the population just have no critical thinking skills.

 

[kayleee]

Again I think it comes back to the follower mentality. A white cop shoots a black guy and the media portrays it as how white cops are racist and suddenly you have millions of people that just assume and continually talk about how racist white cops are, even though that was only one case. (Sorry that's probably a really bad analogy).

Yeah... That's gonna open a whole other can of worms

 

[Princess]

Again I think it comes back to the follower mentality. A white cop shoots a black guy and the media portrays it as how white cops are racist and suddenly you have millions of people that just assume and continually talk about how racist white cops are, even though that was only one case. (Sorry that's probably a really bad analogy).

- - - Post Merge - - -

I think it kinda comes down to that a huge chunk of the population just have no critical thinking skills.

I get what you mean...but the whole white cops (cops in general tbh) targeting the black community is a very real and SUPER common thing so probably not the best example to bring up!

 

[Ashtot]

I get what you mean...but the whole white cops (cops in general tbh) targeting the black community is a very real and SUPER common thing so probably not the best example to bring up!

Yeah...

How about we change it to how a great white shark kills someone and then JAWS happens etc.

That's much better I think...

 

[pillow bunny]

Yeah but so what if males have a bunch of negative traits associated with them females do too and they're exactly that - NEGATIVE TRAITS whereas RIDICULE FOR SOMETHING AS MUNDANE AS WEARING MAKEUP is NOT a negative trait and thus women face ridicule for something that is completely harmless and is NOT negative yet they still get ridiculed for it being ridiculed for having a temper is different than BEING RIDICULED FOR LIKING TO GO TO THE MALL EVERY DAY

I'm not implying girls "have it worse." I'm saying that girls are ridiculed and shamed for SIMPLY BEING A GIRL. Men displaying SIMPLE FEMININE CHARACTERISTICS makes them eligible to be RIDICULED. BEING A GIRL = BAD. ACTING LIKE GIRL = BAD. GIRL = BAD

MUNDANE MALE CHARACTERISTICS LIKE BEING ATHLETIC AND GOOD AT VIDEO GAMES / WHATEVER IS SEEN IN MEN AS GOOD. Mundane masculine chsracteristics in females = BAD. Which leads to females facing ridicule if they are too girly OR too manly. Is there any other way I can explain this to you do the caps help

kayleee i think you're taking this a bit too personally

tao is saying that men are affected by negative stereotypes too. there are positive and negative stereotypes associated with both genders. of course, since you're a girl you experience female stereotyping each and every day, but you'll never see male stereotyping firsthand. he(?) is not trying to invalidate your problems, he's just saying that nothing is completely one-sided.

like, there is a stereotype that teenage boys are antisocial, sleep in extremely late, and play video games all day. there are people of both genders who do these things, and both are considered bad (by adults mainly). none of these traits are necessarily bad though. using your logic, tao could say that masculine male = bad, masculine female = bad.

yeah, i believe that girls have it worse, but it's troublesome to ignore guys issues because both sides of sexism are linked and everything can't be solved solely by looking at female issues

 

[Princess]

Yeah...

How about we change it to how a great white shark kills someone and then JAWS happens etc.

That's much better I think...

Definitely, SAVE THE SHARKS man

 

[Tao]

@Tao
Orrrrr, people could do some quick research and learn what feminism is all about. Having to change to name so it benefits the group that's already benefiting from society is pretty counterproductive, not to mention kind of ironic.

True. I just don't hold very high expectations for most people to do such hard tasks like 'research/2 minutes on google', who are sadly the people you usually have to make compromises for.

MUNDANE MALE CHARACTERISTICS LIKE BEING ATHLETIC AND GOOD AT VIDEO GAMES / WHATEVER IS SEEN IN MEN AS GOOD. Mundane masculine chsracteristics in females = BAD. Which leads to females facing ridicule if they are too girly OR too manly. Is there any other way I can explain this to you do the caps help

You can type it in caps, you can get an aerial stunt team to write it with multicolored smoke in the sky, you could even get a giant laser to write it on the face of the moon, the point will still stand though; it happens to both sexes and I'm not saying men get it equally or worse, merely acknowledging and mentioning that it does indeed happen.

It's really not a black/white, either/or situation like you seem to be implying.