Mafia Uncertainty Mafia | Concept (Read OP)

[Antonio]

I made this so we can suffer together. Enjoy!

Welcome to Uncertainty Mafia! An Experimental Game that is filled with such uncertainty, you'll have to think twice about everything you do. Please click the Role spoiler to understand how the game plays out.

I'm looking for at least 12-15 people.

Important Rules:
You are not allowed to give any information gathered within the main thread. This includes claiming, vaguely hinting, or lying about information. However, you are allowed to share information within the quicktopic once actively seeked by a Seeker (Look at Roles). However, certain information can be shared like for instance, if you have been sent any rules to abide/messages dm'd. When DM'd with given information, I would specify if you can share the information or not within the main post. If you choose to share it once given permission, I would give you a thumbs up in the main post proving the information is real. I would also give a thumbs down for any lies given. This does not apply to quick topics so beware of lies.

Also, the game starts at night 0 instead of day 1. Night 0 will have no kills. Phases are 24 night/48 day hrs. For every 2 people in scum chat (fake or true), mafia has 1 KP per. Umm...and there should be the same amount of God and Seeker roles on each side. Game ends when there is more Mafia then Town or if there's only 1 mafia aligned person left.

Voting system is the usual, most votes at the EOD.

Spoiler: Roles

The amount of roles will differ depending on the amount of who is playing.

Spoiler: Town Aligned Roles

Vanilla Townie - You have no special powers besides your voice alone.
Seeker - A Seeker's main objective is to find out who's Town aligned and gather them into a group topic. Once gathered, they can claim and share any opinions/information there. Beware though, a Mafia-Aligned God can infiltrate your quick-topic via a disguise and share the information with the other Mafia members if they are seeked. If there are more than one seeker, they each would have separate quick topics. If you seek a mafia aligned user who isn't disguised, you will be notify that they are mafia-aligned but you won't be able to share that information within the main post, only quick topic. If you die, the chat will not be locked unless there is only one person in there. The more people you seek, the more information everyone has and can use collectively to push against scum.
God - A God Role allows you to gather up points and use those points for different power abilities. You can use those points for multiple things. Here are all the different abilities and points:

1. Disguise - Disguise yourself or others as scum so you may infiltrate their seeker chat | Unlimited Times per Night | 1 point each
2. Cop - See if someone is aligned with someone | One Time per night | 4 Points
3. Messenger - Send an anonymous message to one person | Unlimited times per night | 1 Point Each
4. Vigilante - Kill someone during night | One time per night | 5 Point
5. Doctor - Block a user from using an ability | One time per night | 3 points
6. Public Announcement - Send an anonymous message to everyone in the next day post | One time per night | 2 Points
7. Seeker-Maker - Allows you to create a new seeker, everyone will be notified that there will be a new seeker but only you'll know and if they are Mafia, you'll be notified they are mafia instead. | One time per game | 6 Points
8. Medium - Allow you to communicate with a dead member, allowing you both to exchange information in 2 messages each | One time per game | 1 Point
9. Bus Driver - Any action aimed at one of the switched people will hit the other instead. | One time per night | 3 points
10. Bodyguard - You can protect yourself | One time every 2 nights | 6 Points

You start with 2 points and every night, you get an additional 1+ the same amount of points you have. (N0, ya get 2, N1, ya get 3, N2, ya get 4). You'll basically get stronger every night you stay alive. You can also save points if you like.

Spoiler: Mafia Roles

Mafia Goon - You have no special powers besides your vote.
Mafia Seeker - Unlike the Town Seeker, your objective is to find the mafia aligned God. You're are automatically in communications with all the other Goons. Once seeked, they will join the mafia chat and will know of all the other Goons. The town-align God can infiltrate the chat however the information is useless if they haven't been seeked by a Town aligned seeker to share the information in because it's against the rules to share any information in the main game unless specified otherwise. Even if it's just the God and the Seeker in the town aligned seeker chat, they both can't share any information making it harder to convince others to push for a mafia lynch.

Mafia God - Similar to the town-align god, you have the ability to use multiple abilities. However, you are not in communications with the other mafia members and you guys don't know each other. You'll have to figure that out in order to communicate properly.

1. Disguise - Disguise yourself or others as town so you may infiltrate their seeker chat if seeked | Unlimited Times per Night | 1 point each
2. Cop - See if someone is aligned with someone | One Time per night | 4 Points
3. Messenger - Send an anonymous message to one person | Unlimited times per night | 1 Point Each
4. Vigilante - Kill someone during night | One time per night | 5 Point
5. Doctor - Block a user from using an ability | One time per night | 3 points
6. Public Announcement - Send an anonymous message to everyone in the next day post | One time per night | 2 Points
7. Seeker-Maker - Allows you to create a new seeker, everyone will be notified that there will be a new seeker but only you'll know and if they are Town, they'll become mafia aligned. | One time per game | 6 Points
8. Find the Mafia Aligned Seeker - You'll be notified of who the seeker is but you can't do anything with that info. They won't be aware that you know so you'll have to let them know somehow. | One time per game | 5 Point
9. Simon Says - Require someone to fufill a requirement when typing in the main/quicktopics for an entire day/night phase | One time per night, never the same person in a row | 3 points
10. Bodyguard - You can protect yourself | One time every 2 nights | 6 Points

You start with 2 points and every night, you get an additional 1+ the same amount of points you have. (N0, ya get 2, N1, ya get 3, N2, ya get 4). You'll basically get stronger every night you stay alive. You can also save points if you like.

Spoiler: Third Party Roles

Survivor (optional depending on amount of who's playing) - Your objective is to survive till the very end.
Chaos God (optional depending on amount of who's playing) - Congratulations, you are a winner! You'll win no matter what happens as you don't care either way! So, why not have fun and mess with everyone, town or mafia.

1. Force Mason - Force 2 people to be stuck together in a group chat | Unlimited Times per Night | 1 point each
2. Cop - See if someone is aligned with someone | One Time per night | 4 Points
3. Messenger - Send an anonymous message to one person | Unlimited times per night | 1 Point Each
4. Vigilante - Kill someone during night | One time per night | 5 Point
5. Doctor - Block a user from using an ability | One time per night | 3 points
6. Public Announcement - Send an anonymous message to everyone in the next day post | One time per night | 2 Points
7. Revive someone - Revive someone, town or mafia. | One time per night | 6 Points
8. Expose someone - Force someone to come forward with their true identity. | One time per game | 5 Point
9. Simon Says - Require someone to fufill a requirement when typing in the main/quicktopics for an entire day/night phase. | One time per night, never the same person in a row | 3 points
10. Bodyguard - You can protect yourself | One time every 2 nights | 6 Points

You start with 2 points and every night, you get an additional 1+ the same amount of points you have. (N0, ya get 2, N1, ya get 3, N2, ya get 4). You'll basically get stronger every night you stay alive. You can also save points if you like.

Summary: In the main game thread, you can not reveal information (nor hint or lie) unless told to. However, once seeked by a seeker role, you may reveal whatever you like, truth or lies in the quick topic, not the main game. Scum and Town can invade each others chat aswell with help from God user and share who/what happens in those chats with the other chat. This game can go either way depending on what you guys decide to do.

If you do hint about anything in the main post, you'll be modkilled.

This game will officially happen on July 6th, 2020 (next month).
I was hoping to host next, as specified in the main discussion thread multiple times but someone is already doing a game after radical so it's fine. We should really add a queue.

Anyways, I'm looking for people who may be interested in a game like this so I added a poll. I'll be doing signups on the first of July so you may have time to think about your schedule. Opinions and balance changes most appreciated.


​

 

[N e s s]

My head is spinning

 

[Antonio]

My head is spinning

If it helps, I believe I repeated myself quite a few times.

Post automatically merged: Jun 20, 2020

main game = the actual thread aswell

Post automatically merged: Jun 20, 2020

feel free to ask questions @Ness

 

[Ace Marvel]

tl:dr /in

kidding, sounds like chaotic fun, just like me.

 

[Damniel]

My head is spinning

i think to elaborate on this, the setup is interesting , but is quite packed given the player count. For a game to use a points system, you’d probably need around 20+ (maybe 30) players to make the accumulation of points worthwhile

the core of your setup seems around to be the seeker role, and I think that in itself is interesting enough to focus on the game. I think just using those with a maybe a doctor would work much better in a smaller setup. saving up for like 6 points would be too much of a risk and would probably not happen since a 12-15 player game would only last until like D5 at max most of the time

overall, i think the seeker idea itself is pretty cool, but the points system is a bit overwhelming and may not end up being properly utilized and understood. i think a much simpler setup focusing around the seekers would be ideal for a small game size, and be less confusing for newer (and even more seasoned) players

Post automatically merged: Jun 20, 2020

also i don’t think third party should be included for a game that size. plus, survivors and whatever wincon the chaos god is usually just don’t work out since players have no real incentive to actually even play the game. unless the wincon is to achieve a certain goal, you don’t get as much engagement with a TP than you think you would. TP should really only happen with a weaker mafia team, but the scum roles seem that you’re shooting for at least 2 goons, a seeker, and a god, so a TP would just take away from town numbers

 

[DinoTown]

This sounds like pure and utter Madness

I love it
/in

 

[epona]

i'll obs i guess but i feel confused even reading this
def can't play or replace tho

 

[Heyden]

To be honest the mechanics are extremely confusing so I’m not deadset on joining as of yet.
And no offence but it seems like you’re not really sure on the set-up either.

- KP calculation is kinda unclear, 2 mafia = 1 KP, alright, but what if there’s 3 mafia?
- ‘Game ends when there is more Mafia then Town or if there's only 1 mafia aligned person left’. Games ends when mafia reaches parity with town, not equalising town, unless you’ve changed it but that doesn’t make sense. Also game ends when only 1 mafia is left? So mafia winning is reliant on 2 being alive at endgame?
-Voting system as ‘usual’, I’m guessing plurality but you should state that.

I would suggest maybe getting a co-host to help you tweak the set-up as Daniel mentioned and clean up the rules/mechanics a bit so it’s cleaner.

 

[Damniel]

For every 2 people in scum chat (fake or true), mafia has 1 KP per

Mafia Goon - You have no special powers besides your vote.
Mafia Seeker - Unlike the Town Seeker, your objective is to find the mafia aligned God. You're are automatically in communications with all the other Goons. Once seeked, they will join the mafia chat and will know of all the other Goons.

KP calculation is kinda unclear, 2 mafia = 1 KP, alright, but what if there’s 3 mafia

the OP says that every 2 people in scum chat make up a KP. so i’m assuming it’s the regular formula but rounded down (including disguised town?). but the scum roles say that only goons and seeekers get to chat, so im assuming the god doesn’t count. but in whatever case I would honestly just suggest 1 KP

 

[Antonio]

Anything can be adjustable based on y'all opinions and I'm happy to clarify regarding stuff.

Regarding Third Party Roles, they are optional in-case we get more then the needed amount. The chaos god role should have the survivor objective along with it, I forgot to clarify.

Regarding Points, they are used in-case they want to disguise more than one person or if they want to gather information. They points you receive increases by one every night phase so God's are pretty weak at first but become stronger the more they survive. However, I could use some balancing regarding the point amount for each ability, as the current numbers were estimates. I'm also debating if there should be 2 Gods, should the abilities be divide up or have the same?

Yes, the Seeker role plays a huge part of the game. However, two other things play a huge part in the game and that will be the God Role and the limitations in sharing information via main thread. A majority of the information you get can't be shared in the main thread, nor hinted at. Plus, you can't false claim or regular claim in the main thread. Basically, no truths, no hints at truths, and no lies in main thread. However, you can share information you receive in a quick-topic once you have been seeked. You can also lie as well in the quicktopic. Even if you get information from a quick topic, you can't share it in the main thread, only in other quick topics.

The point of the Seeker is to find the God Role, with the town-aligned Seeker having another point towards their role and that is for them to build up a quicktopic where they can share information. The point of the God role is to disguise users as scum/town (opposite of their alignment) so they can invade the Seeker chats (or mafia chat) and to gather information that could be beneficial. However, any information given is useless if you can't share it and you can't share it if you aren't in another quicktopic to share it. Acting on information alone is gonna be hard to prove if you can't share the information or state something like "I just know, ok".

Finally, God's aren't in communication with seekers, no matter what alignment they are. They can only be in communication with them if "seeked" by them. However, if a God uses a Disguise on someone or themselves, that can intefer with other God's results and make certain things appear as something different from the truth and could mean false results. Hence, why this game is called uncertainity mafia since you can never be too sure about anything.

Basically, this game can go anywhere based on a few peoples decisions especially since the game begins on Night 0 (without mafia night kills ofc). You can never be too sure about anything.

@Damniel @N e s s @Heyden @epona Hopefully, this clears it up.

Also, 1KP per 2 people. This includes false people who have infiltrated the mafia chat.

 

[Damniel]

Honestly I would just not include TP or the points system in general. The seeker system is very complex in itself, and those two things just complicate things even more. So I just wouldn't have TP and assign a doc PR from the beginning. Maybe an additional disguise PR. I would also just set KP at 1 given the ideal size of the game. If you want to introduce a new and elaborate setup with the seekers then I think you need to simplify everything else as much as possible, otherwise it'll overwhelm someone in all aspects of the game

Also I'm not entirely sure what the objective of the game is?? Like, VTs and goons seem to have the standard wincon which makes sense. But the town and scum seeker have to just find their respective god? what happens when they do? Do they automatically win and get removed from the game? If so, why are they in a chat with goons if their wincons are different? If the goal is to just outnumber town, why bother looking for the god? what's the benefit? How do they confirm they "found" the scum god? Do they PM you or announce it somewhere?

What happens to the town seeker when they find the town god? do they get removed from the game too? Why do they care of scum outnumber town if their wincon is different? in that sense they're basically just TP

Also, if information can't be shared in the thread, days are just going to be very underwhelming with people being vague on why they're voting but can't say why. Are the quick topics happening just during one phase, or all the time? If the quick topics are happening at night, I think you're better off flipping phase times to 24/48. Without being able to share information from QTs, days are just gonna feel really hollow

I'm honestly just unsure of why gods are the main objective for seekers if its not their main wincon... and if it is, then vanillas and seekers have differing wincons and that's not cohesive for cooperation on both alignments


Honestly I think you could just simplify the game by making it a PM game. The seeker/god system just seems to be a more complex system of allowing PMs and it's still really confusing to be honest

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

rethinking to to be simpler, i would just make it a standard town and scum team in a PM game, with a town god and scum god (devil idk). Town can win by lynching the scum god, and scum wins by killing the town god. Maybe have multiple town gods that scum has to kill so they can't win that quickly. That way the wincons are cohesive and each player can actively search for this god idk

 

[Antonio]

Also I'm not entirely sure what the objective of the game is?? Like, VTs and goons seem to have the standard wincon which makes sense. But the town and scum seeker have to just find their respective god? what happens when they do? Do they automatically win and get removed from the game? If so, why are they in a chat with goons if their wincons are different? If the goal is to just outnumber town, why bother looking for the god? what's the benefit? How do they confirm they "found" the scum god? Do they PM you or announce it somewhere?

The objective of the Seeker is to build up their respective quicktopics (which lasts permanently till end of game) and find the God Role, who has the ability to gather information on the other side. In those quicktopics, you are allowed to share information but there's also the risk of being infiltrated and the only way that's possible if an actual mafia member is disguise as Town by the Mafia-Aligned God Role. In the main thread, you can't share information so acting on information alone would put suspicions on you.

The objective of the game is to not trust everything you see and scum hunt based on motive behind actions. Information most likely will be true but there's a chance it could return something false based on actions submitted by other Gods.

Repeating this again because it's very simple: The point of the God is to gather information/disguise, hence the different role abilities. The seeker needs to rely on them but they don't know who they are. The seeker can only add people to their quicktopic if they are on the same side but the other side could sneak in if disguise. Once the God find the Seeker, the God could share all their information if they so choose to.

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

I also would like to state that by information, I mean night action results. You can't claim and share that information in main chat, only in quicktopic. Any thoughts you have regarding others based on what they do via main thread could be used to sus.

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

So if you have any information, it would be useless if you haven't been seeked out.

 

[Damniel]

The objective of the Seeker is to build up their respective quicktopics (which lasts permanently till end of game) and find the God Role, who has the ability to gather information on the other side. In those quicktopics, you are allowed to share information but there's also the risk of being infiltrated and the only way that's possible if an actual mafia member is disguise as Town by the Mafia-Aligned God Role. In the main thread, you can't share information so acting on information alone would put suspicions on you.

The objective of the game is to not trust everything you see and scum hunt based on motive behind actions. Information most likely will be true but there's a chance it could return something false based on actions submitted by other Gods.

Repeating this again because it's very simple: The point of the God is to gather information/disguise, hence the different role abilities. The seeker needs to rely on them but they don't know who they are. The seeker can only add people to their quicktopic if they are on the same side but the other side could sneak in if disguise. Once the God find the Seeker, the God could share all their information if they so choose to.

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

I also would like to state that by information, I mean night action results. You can't claim and share that information in main chat, only in quicktopic. Any thoughts you have regarding others based on what they do via main thread could be used to sus.

yes i read that but what is the wincon by finding the god? What does the seeker gain by finding their God? Do they need to submit an action to confirm they find the god? Do they get removed from the game for winning? I think stating clear wincons is really important here

and by night action results what exactly do you mean... cuz only gods can use points to use actions it seems? or do you mean what is said in QT chats?

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

also by information do you mean night action results or just general discussion of the game? I thought only gods have night actions, so wouldn't it be really easy to find your respective god if you just ask if a player is VT? if they don't have any action info to share then what discussion is there to have?

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

so lets say you have a game of 15, what is the role distribution you're thinking of?

 

[Antonio]

yes but i read that but what is the wincon by finding the god? What does the seeker gain by finding their God? Do they need to submit an action to confirm they find the god? Do they get removed from the game for winning? I think stating clear wincons is really important here

The result of them finding the god means 3 things:

1. The Seeker would be notify they found a God. However, it won't indicate which alignment they are. When seeking you get 3 results, Town (and they'll join the topic), Mafia, or God. For Mafia Seeker, they'll be notify if they are Town or Mafia-aligned God. They can't share this information in main thread but in the quicktopic they can.
2. The seeker can out the God if they choose to.
3. The Seeker can communicate with the God and they can work together to build up the quicktopic and gather information on who they think is scum. If the God is opposite align and choose to refuse to work with the Seeker once seeked, it would put suspision on them.

There is no Win-Con for finding the god, the seeker just gains a powerrole to communicate with to help solve the problem and if they refuse to help, it puts suspicions on them and everyone sees it in the quicktopic.

 

[Damniel]

in order for a player to be motivated to play a certain way, it needs to translate into a wincon, otherwise they have no real reason to do the objective. if the seeker's wincon isn't to find the god, there really is no point to finding the god. it just seems the benefit of finding the god is finding a person to confide with? couldn't a seeker just do this with any trustworthy player and not worry about the god? the wincon would have to center around finding the god, otherwise the

The point of the Seeker is to find the God Role

just isn't really true

also are the QTs created at night? Does a seeker make an unlimited amount of QTs or can they only make a certain amount?

 

[Antonio]

so lets say you have a game of 15, what is the role distribution you're thinking of?

2 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Seekers
1 Mafia God
1 Third Party
2 Town Seekers
1 Town God
6 Townies

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

in order for a player to be motivated to play a certain way, it needs to translate into a wincon, otherwise they have no real reason to do the objective. if the seeker's wincon isn't to find the god, there really is no point to finding the god. it just seems the benefit of finding the god is finding a person to confide with? couldn't a seeker just do this with any trustworthy player and not worry about the god? the wincon would have to center around finding the god, otherwise the

I understand where you are coming from. So, read everything after this. The God has the ability to do a ton of different things, having a seeker to actual claim. Even if the Seeker finds the God, the entire game will not be at risk. The only time that the game will be ask risk if the other team successfully infiltrated the chat that has the Seeker and the God together and the God claimed. The only way they can get into the other chat if disguise by a god aligned with them. So, if there is a win con regarding finding the God, it wouldn't necessarily put the game at risk.

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

The reason why I put the no information rule is because I don't want people to claim or false claim as the power roles are important to survive.

Post automatically merged: Jun 21, 2020

I understand I need to simplify things so I'm doing that right, hold up.

 

[Damniel]

2 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Seekers
1 Mafia God
1 Third Party
2 Town Seekers
1 Town God
6 Townies

so 5 scum and 9 town? at the start it seems they'll be 4 scum in the scum chat automatically, so a 2KP? So if there's a mislynch D1 and 2 deaths (since it takes 3 points to protect and the god starts with 2), it seems the KP could even increase more with town infiltrators? that leaves 6 town and 5 scum left. Mislynch D2 and town pretty much loses... A 15 player game should only have 3 scum with 1 KP and 12 town for the best balance (the setup used in MU)

 

[Antonio]

The whole point of this setup is to have 3 things:

1. Maintain a sense of uncertainty within the main thread throughout the entire game while have some sort of certainty in a non-public chat. Claiming or stating night action happening to you removes that uncertainty and gives everyone a certainty to work with. Even if it's false, it gives a certainty towards a particular alignment.
2. Town Seeker having a method of building a non-public chat while mafia already have that. There's still some uncertainty in the chat however Seeker does get information. Mafia chat still has uncertainty as well.
3. Having a power role that can gather information but can only share it in the non-public chat. This power roles give certainty but makes it hard to act upon without being suspicious. If seeked, he can give some certainty to the hidden group chat.

I want to main these 3 key points for theme sake. I'm thinking about removing the disguise ability and making the God role into a Detective/Messenger role. Remove the infiltrating aspect and maintain the information gathering part.

BTW, a seeker can only seek one person a night.

so 5 scum and 9 town? at the start it seems they'll be 4 scum in the scum chat automatically, so a 2KP? So if there's a mislynch D1 and 2 deaths (since it takes 3 points to protect and the god starts with 2), it seems the KP could even increase more with town infiltrators? that leaves 6 town and 5 scum left. Mislynch D2 and town pretty much loses... A 15 player game should only have 3 scum with 1 KP and 12 town for the best balance (the setup used in MU)

Sorry, that was supposed to be 4 mafia and 10 town, with 1 third party/townie. Even if town does infiltrate the mafia, it still means they are Town-aligned but can only effect the KP and the discussion regarding it. Even so, you make a good point regarding balancing and I'm taking this into consideration. I would 100% prefer keeping those 3 options things listed above but if you have any balancing idea that fits those 3 objectives, I'll be happy to change it up.

 

[Damniel]

I think a simpler way to maintain the 3 points and have a fairly balanced setup is this:

4 scum with 1 KP:
- 1 scum seeker
- 1 Investigation Framer (Can either make a town appear as scum in an inspection)
- 1 Track/Watch Framer (Can force a target to "visit" a player to fake a watch/track result, doesn't make a Jack act on them though if targeted. its just to fake the result)
- 1 goon

11 Town:
-7 vanilla towns
-2 Jack of All trades (Cop, Watch, Track) with 2 shots for each power
-2 town seekers

To address your points:
1) You can apply the same restrictions to prevent the jacks from claiming publicly, that's fine
2) Town!Seeker can still make private chats at night but isn't told of an alignment or anything. The t!seeker will just need to trust whether or not their target is telling to truth on their role, still keeping them uncertain of that
3) Instead of gods, just make it simpler and have jacks/framers with defined abilities. A points system in this size just really won't work and it seems their main goal to to get investigation results anyways. The jack can't pubically claim in the thread, but can claim in QTs. They can't be sure if their results are right tho or if they're even speaking to a town seeker

To twist things up, you can make it so that none of the scum know each other, so it's the scum seeker's job to find their own partners. This can make it so scum doesn't know for sure if they're speaking to each other, adding to uncertainty. Scum won't agree on a kill in a chat, but will PM you to vote for a kill. The winning vote is who gets killed and if there's a tie, the target is chosen at random between the two. The member carrying out the kill for tracking/watching is randomized within those who voted the target and they aren't told if it was them who carried it out


So you have town seekers unsure if they're confiding in town and scum unsure who their partners even are. This concept can be built upon more but I think this is more simple with the 3 points you want to make

Post automatically merged: Jun 22, 2020

Also I would have both alignment seekers able to open a QT with a player twice a night. The QTs are closed after that phase, so if a seeker wants to continue talking with a player they'll need to re-select them again the next night. Keeping the QT open the whole game makes it a weird PM game where players are just talking to the seeker

 

[Antonio]

I think a simpler way to maintain the 3 points and have a fairly balanced setup is this:

4 scum with 1 KP:
- 1 scum seeker
- 1 Framer (Can either make a town appear as scum in an inspection or can force them to "visit" a player to fake a watch/track result)
- 2 Goons

11 Town:
-7 vanilla towns
-2 Jack of All trades (Cop, Watch, Track) with 2 shots for each power
-2 town seekers

To address your points:
1) You can apply the same restrictions to prevent the jacks from claiming publicly, that's fine
2) Town!Seeker can still make private chats at night but isn't told of an alignment or anything. The t!seeker will just need to trust whether or not their target is telling to truth on their role, still keeping them uncertain of that
3) Instead of gods, just make it simpler and have jacks with defined abilities. A points system in this size just really won't work and it seems their main goal to to get investigation results anyways. The jack can't pubically claim in the thread, but can claim in QTs. They can't be sure if their results are right tho or if they're even speaking to a town seeker

To twist things up, you can make it so that none of the scum know each other, so it's the scum seeker's job to find their own partners. This can make it so scum doesn't know for sure if they're speaking to each other, adding to uncertainty. Scum won't agree on a kill in a chat, but will PM you to vote for a kill. The winning vote is who gets killed and if there's a tie, the target is chosen at random between the two


So you have town seekers unsure if they're confiding in town and scum unsure who their partners even are. This concept can be built upon more but I think this is more simple with the 3 points you want to make

This is better then what I was thinking and shall use this if that's alright with you. My only concern now is how to properly lower the role amounts if I don't reach 15 threshold, does a framer role properly balance out the 2 jack of trades (i probably would only allow them to submit one night action instead of points) and if i do switch it up, would that make them weaker compared to town. I feel like town has a better advantage, even without the twist.