The gun, or the criminal?

[Knopekin]

Besides, why did Cain kill Abel?
Like damn, we need PEOPLE-CONTROL or ROCK-CONTROL, not gun-control.
Literally the first crime was done with rocks so smh let's ban rocks plz

Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.

The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns or police killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.

No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that another kid shot up his school or the police killed another unarmed black kid, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.

 

[Cory]

the op implies a discussion about gun control in the us i think

i understand (its kinda a general question in the op tho)
also
"maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA."
thats why america has amendments so we can say this kind of stuff

- - - Post Merge - - -

Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.

The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns or police killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.

No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that another kid shot up his school or the police killed another unarmed black kid was killed by police, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.

im sure this happens in your country
you are being so biased
the liberal media uses these deaths for restrictions on guns
and good job bring race into it like this thread wasnt heated enough

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

Everyone citing the whole "well if someone really wants to kill someone they can just get a gun anyway" spiel but it's like

You can literally kill somebody with anything. Did you know you can mix together chemicals you can find in your own home and make a lethal gas that can kill people? It's not as easy to pull off as just whipping out a pistol and shooting up a crowd, but you can do it.

Just tighten the control on guns and suddenly not just any wackjob can decide to shoot up a movie theater, or hold up some place in Oregon. Yeah people will still do it, but it suddenly becomes a lot harder.


"Oh but Zeph, that's not going to stop people entirely." True, Idk man it seems to have stopped people fairly well in all the other first world countries. You don't really see mass shooting happening every other week over there.

In the end it's not about completely ending homicide, cus that ain't going to happen. It's about making the task of slaughtering large quantities of other people more difficult.



This might come off as a surprise to a lot of people, but the kinds of people who are connected to the black market aren't the same kind of people who are going to rob your house randomly. If they have the kinds of connections to get in touch with the black market they probably don't care about your, comparatively, poor self. Burglars are usually dirt-poor and get their guns from, you guessed it, gun shops.

 

[crystalmilktea]

"maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA."
thats why america has amendments so we can say this kind of stuff

I meant this as in we're not going agree with you when most of us come from countries who don't have guns everywhere.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

im sure this happens in your country
you are being so biased
the liberal media uses these deaths for restrictions on guns
and good job bring race into it like this thread wasnt heated enough

You probably shouldn't be in this thread if you're going to flat out say the guy is wrong with no reason whatsoever, while in the same sentence say the media is giving exaggerated information due to bias. Like, do you see yourself being a hypocrite or do you just not care?

 

[Cory]

I meant this as in we're not going agree with you when most of us come from countries who don't have guns everywhere.

you need opposing views
everyone having the same view is communism
and trust me, your country has guns

 

[Bostostar]

most of the arguments against gun control are stupid, embellished and provide insignificant specific cases so yeah

I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!

EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.

 

[Cory]

You probably shouldn't be in this thread if you're going to flat out say the guy is wrong with no reason whatsoever, while in the same sentence say the media is giving exaggerated information due to bias. Like, do you see yourself being a hypocrite or do you just not care?

what state do you think i am from?
answer the question truthfully
actually, everyone answer i want to prove something

- - - Post Merge - - -

I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!

EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.

not sure what your view is lol

 

[ToxiFoxy]

Then knives are restricted. What next, sporks and heavy cast iron frying pans!? Lawl probably.

Mainly criminals. It's called the black market. You can't stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.

Can I just take a moment and laugh at this. I know this is serious but its funny how true it is that people would result in using those things as weapons. And the melting them all is kinda funny too. Ok do not hate me just ignore this.

In my opinion, it IS the criminal because, say you yourself were a criminal, you kill people, you are the one who pulls the trigger or uses the knife. If you were a criminal and those things were taken away you wouldn't just stop, you would find something else to kill someone with. So honestly getting rid of those things wouldn't help as much as trying to stop the criminals themselves.

 

[piichinu]

I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!

EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.

why were you at a pokemon world championship and i legit have no idea what you're saying

 

[epona]

cool story bro

For real though, did you forget that just a few years ago, Dublin was considered the "gun murder capital" of Europe, that Irish authorities have seized over 1000 illegal weapons in Ireland since 2005, and that gun crime is actually on the rise in Ireland? You can say "nobody has guns in Ireland", but 5 seconds on Google shows how awfully wrong that statement is.

I'll admit the numbers are tiny compared to the US. However, the gun legislation of Ireland is lax compared to other European countries.

'cool story bro' wow there's a way to start a convincing argument
of course there's gun crime in ireland, there's gun crime in every country? when i say nobody owns a gun i mean people don't just own them for 'self-defense' reasons, if you own a gun here (unless as i said it's for hunting) then you're a criminal to begin with so that's moot point
why don't you tell me again when our last mass-shooting was? when was the last time some teenager in ireland took his dad's gun from the wardrobe and shot up his school?



why are people even using the 'people will find ways to obtain guns anyway regulating them isn't going to stop people owning them' argument
like.... if you're going to employ that logic then to hell with the whole legal system??? why do we even have laws if people will just break them anyway???? let's just live in total anarchy because you'll never get 100% obedience

 

[crystalmilktea]

you need opposing views
everyone having the same view is communism
and trust me, your country has guns

Then don't complain about us being too liberal and gross/surprising? We definitely don't have guns "everywhere", as I said. No normal Canadian citizen walks around with a handgun for protection. We call those the crazies.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

what state do you think i am from?
answer the question truthfully
actually, everyone answer i want to prove something

That literally has nothing to do with anything going on here?

Like man if you think political affiliation = state location then idk what to say about you.

Judging by how smug you are, I'm assuming you live in the north and you have these views so that you can be different compared to all the 'dang hiveminded liberals' around you

 

[ToxiFoxy]

Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.

The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns or police killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.

No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that another kid shot up his school or the police killed another unarmed black kid was killed by police, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.

Its not offensive at all in my opinion. It does make us look like a joke and some people in America just see at as another thing that happened because it isn't entirely uncommon for some of these things to happen.

 

[oath2order]

It's a different debate entirely, but the links between masculinity and crime (and, also related to guns, masculinity and suicide) are documented across sociology, psychology and criminology.

I'm definitely with you on providing adequate mental health services, but it shouldn't be either/or.

Given that a majority of mass shootings can be blamed on mental health issues, I would say that yes, it can be either/or.

 

[Knopekin]

im sure this happens in your country
you are being so biased

There has been one school shooting in UK history, the Dunblane Massacre, in 1996.

Public debate about the killings centred on gun control laws, including public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official enquiry, the Cullen Report. In response to this debate, two new firearms Acts were passed, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in Great Britain.

In 2005 the police shot an unarmed Brazilian man following the 7/7 bombings on the London Underground. The Independent Police Complaints Commission launched two investigations, thousands of people held a vigil, and it was a PR disaster for the police.

the liberal media uses these deaths for restrictions on guns

Yes they do. Thousands of people dying because of a thing is a good reason to put restrictions on the thing.

 

[Cory]

That literally has nothing to do with anything going on here?

Like man if you think political affiliation = state location then idk what to say about you.

Judging by how smug you are, I'm assuming you live in the north and you have these views so that you can be different compared to all the 'dang hiveminded liberals' around you

i am from new york
i know they have nothing to do with eachother
and you call me smug really?
i have so many things to say to you right now, but i wont, because i promised i would control my anger this year

 

[Reindeer]

'cool story bro' wow there's a way to start a convincing argument
of course there's gun crime in ireland, there's gun crime in every country? when i say nobody owns a gun i mean people don't just own them for 'self-defense' reasons, if you own a gun here (unless as i said it's for hunting) then you're a criminal to begin with so that's moot point
why don't you tell me again when our last mass-shooting was? when was the last time some teenager in ireland took his dad's gun from the wardrobe and shot up his school?

"NOBODY has guns in ireland!!!"
"OF COURSE people have guns in ireland!!!"

so which is it
because all i see here is damage control

 

[Red Cat]

This thread has officially gone to hell. Remember folks, computers don't kill threads, Cory kills threads.

 

[ToxiFoxy]

why were you at a pokemon world championship and i legit have no idea what you're saying

Ikr same thing here, I do not think you would actually see people walking around with large guns and ammunition like that doesn't even make sense. Those people would have to be extremely stupid to walk around in daylight like that.