Terrorist Attacks in Paris

[MozzarellaSticks]

After reports came in that a man with the exact same passport (albeit with a different picture) had been detained in Serbia, it was obvious that it was a fake passport. I remember there also being a report today that the actual Ahmad al Mohammad had been killed in Syria some months ago, though I can't find the source now.

The fact that the fake passport traveled through other countries to eventually arrive at France raises some questions regardless. It obviously wasn't the man that's still in Serbia, as he would be in France. And it was obviously evidence that was meant to be found, so this discussion would start and people would take the daesh's threats seriously. As the source you linked says, it's obvious that terrorists can and will hide in the stream of migrants.

Edit: Thought I'd slap some sources on statements as well.

Guy in Serbia with same passport arrested
Passport was recorded in Croatian refugee camp (after it passed through Serbia) 1 2

Edit 2: Found the source about the real Ahmad al Mohammad. 1 2

I'm not at all denying that they can hide among migrants. That's a pretty obvious way to get in. Any mass immigration is going to present opportunities for terrorists.

It's just the link with Syria is weak. It's more likely it's a terrorist attack to deal with France's current actions "against" Islam, and not Syria. We don't know the exact reason why, but considering the track record it's probably because they see this as a mission to help purify the world.

 

[Reindeer]

I'm not at all denying that they can hide among migrants. That's a pretty obvious way to get in. Any mass immigration is going to present opportunities for terrorists.

It's just the link with Syria is weak. It's more likely it's a terrorist attack to deal with France's current actions "against" Islam, and not Syria. We don't know the exact reason why, but considering the track record it's probably because they see this as a mission to help purify the world.

The brain behind the attacks spent time with ISIS in Syria. At least one of the Paris attackers spent time with ISIS in Syria. The only questionable issue is whether or not one of the attackers originated from Syria. For the rest, the link between the daesh in Syria and the Paris attacks is overwhelmingly obvious.

And what are the French actions against Islam that you speak of? I know some people spoke out against the religion after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, but those were individuals. I'd like to know what the French government as a whole has done.

-------------------------------------------------------

It was just confirmed that the male terrorist killed in this morning's raid was Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the brain behind the Friday attacks. The raid was mainly targeting him, but they couldn't confirm before now that they had indeed found him. (source)

Edit: The above news is spreading, but the Paris prosecutor said in a recent press conference that Abdelhamid wasn't one of the ones arrested. (source)
This doesn't immediately mean the previous news wasn't true, but take it with a grain of salt until it's super confirmed.

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

The brain behind the attacks spent time with ISIS in Syria. At least one of the Paris attackers spent time with ISIS in Syria. The only questionable issue is whether or not one of the attackers originated from Syria. For the rest, the link between the daesh in Syria and the Paris attacks is overwhelmingly obvious.

And what are the French actions against Islam that you speak of? I know some people spoke out against the religion after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, but those were individuals. I'd like to know what the French government as a whole has done.

-------------------------------------------------------

It was just confirmed that the male terrorist killed in this morning's raid was Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the brain behind the Friday attacks. The raid was mainly targeting him, but they couldn't confirm before now that they had indeed found him. (source)

Edit: The above news is spreading, but the Paris prosecutor said in a recent press conference that Abdelhamid wasn't one of the ones arrested. (source)
This doesn't immediately mean the previous news wasn't true, but take it with a grain of salt until it's super confirmed.

If you have followed French law in the recent years, the response to Islam has been offensive. They've banned quite a bit. France also had a very nationalistic ideal that rejects migrants. It's quite hard to become a French citizen, or to just get in France.

Some examples of French laws (hard to find any unbiased):
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16547479 (Sikh, but shows French laws)
http://huffpost.com/us/entry/5555732

Many of he laws are older now, but France has been well known to be "intolerant." This is not the first terrorist attack in France, and not even the first in Paris, as we all know. It's kind of a target for ISIS and other Islamic groups at this time.

By ties to Syria I was referring to the country itself. Syria has many Islamic militant groups in it. It's bound to be a source for a lot of terrorism. But it's not linked to Syria's civil war and actions there so much as it is linked to Islamic extremists. We don't solve this problem with Syria. We could end the civil war in Syria, but it would not solve the issue of Islamic terrorist groups. It's just be a proxy war of sorts. What I'm trying to say, is I am very wary that any response involving Syria will really help in the long run.

 

[Reindeer]

If you have followed French law in the recent years, the response to Islam has been offensive. They've banned quite a bit. France also had a very nationalistic ideal that rejects migrants. It's quite hard to become a French citizen, or to just get in France.

Some examples of French laws (hard to find any unbiased):
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16547479 (Sikh, but shows French laws)
http://huffpost.com/us/entry/5555732

Many of he laws are older now, but France has been well known to be "intolerant." This is not the first terrorist attack in France, and not even the first in Paris, as we all know. It's kind of a target for ISIS and other Islamic groups at this time.

France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.

And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?

If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.

 

[HaileyACNL]

why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?

 

[Titi]

It's silly, but this made me cry even more than the human casualties.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/18/paris-attacks-diesel-the-hero-police-dog-killed-by-terrorists-after-sniffing-out-suicide-bomber-5509815/

 

[ToxiFoxy]

I do not wanna suspect anything bout I am kind of scared, ever since they moved in these people down my house have been acting strange and have actually been arrested for selling drugs. Like one day before the terrorist attack they were packing their things and clothes and everything in a car and they left and have not been back since ova I am kinda scared

But I send my prayers towards all those who were affected by the tragedy

- - - Post Merge - - -

France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.

And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?

If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.

Exactly. I am kind of glad I live in a country that you can practice any religion you want though.

 

[Titi]

I'm not valuing the dog's life more thant I did the humans. It's just the straw that breaks the camel's back. Just starting to move on from the grief that struck my city, and then this happens, and dogs are my passion, my life. So yeah. i bawled, sue me.

 

[yukikotobuki]

... Anyways... much respect to those who lost their lives in Paris, and additionally, best wishes to all of the other countries that have been attacked recently.

 

[Reindeer]

why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?

I can't help feeling that this is supposed to be a rhetorical question, with the supposed "obvious" answer being that "white lives matter more". Sorry if that isn't the case. I'll try to explain regardless.

We've known for a few months that the daesh have been cutting through Syria into Lebanon. Because Syria is a war zone, the reports from there shock us less as it's a war zone. There is no war ongoing in France, and civil unrest is low compared to countries like South Africa. Therefore a terrorist attack of this scale is shocking, just like the attacks on New York, Madrid, London, Bali, and so on.

The last two years also gave us an example of this happening to white people.
After the Ukrainian revolution last year, a war between pro-Russian factions and the Ukrainian government broke out. For the first one or two months there was a lot of coverage on the situation. How much do you hear about it now? Much less than you hear of Syria, I imagine, even though the conflict is still ongoing.

Countries in conflict get less sympathy than those who aren't. It's disappointing and makes people seem like hypocrites, but it's simple human nature. That's why Paris got more sympathy than Beirut, or the various attacks in Nigeria and Kenya. France isn't a conflict zone.

 

[oath2order]

Countries in conflict get less sympathy than those who aren't.

Just wanna reiterate this. Hell, even when it came to the hospital bombings this country did, that still didn't get as much attention as Paris because it was Afghanistan.

 

[Colour Bandit]

Throwing in my 2 cents about the death of the police dog, I would say I also cried more when I heard about it vs the human casualties but that's not because I think dogs>humans, it's because I felt more fear and anxiety over the terror attacks rather than sadness, I know someone who was literally staying 5 minutes away from the football stadium and who I and many other people thought was dead or being held hostage so I was feeling extremely worried and anxious for her (don't worry she is all okay and back at work now) and everyone in Paris, and I feel that it hit me harder than the dog's death. But I found the dogs death more sad in that I kept imagining it happening to my dog and that made me tear up, it didn't hit me anywhere as hard...

In other news, we had a two minute silence at work on Monday in respect for the Paris victims and our new manager was totally out of order, she completely disregarded the silence and then started shouting at us for observing it! It also turns out she did the same thing on Remembrance Sunday (I wasn't in work so didn't know this) and I just feel so disgusted with her, that she would just disregard all the people who cruelly had their lives taken from them

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.

And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?

If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.

France is just a big one to do so. France is a first world, Western country with a lot of pull. It's going to be more significant when France does something. That's just the way it is.

It's not Islam = terrorism. All religions have terrorist groups, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Islam is also poised to overtake Christainty. Anyway, none of that matters because most Western countries are secular government wise. It's not supposed to be a "Christian nation." Muslims are not entering "Christian nations." And Islam itself is not the issue.

The issue itself is deep and rooted in melenia of debate. It's far more entrenched then anything that can be simplified. But the best combat is educating in rebuilding the Middle East. It's something that will take a very long time to fix. Nothing with an immediate and easy solution, which is what people want and look for.

- - - Post Merge - - -

why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?

Because France is a Western country with power. France is supposed to be safe. Beruit is located somewhere where bombings are common. We've become desensitized.

France also has more global ties, especially Paris. People have family there or someone visiting. It's a huge tourist location for people all over he globe. It's recognizable to anyone. People are going to feel a stronger connection there. It's going to shake people up and effect them more.

 

[Reindeer]

France is just a big one to do so. France is a first world, Western country with a lot of pull. It's going to be more significant when France does something. That's just the way it is.

Iran and Saudi Arabia have a lot of "pull" in the UN, so I don't see how their treatment of people of non-Muslim faith should be accepted while we condemn laws passed in France. Seems like a blatant double standard to me.

It's not Islam = terrorism.

I don't remember anyone saying that.

All religions have terrorist groups, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Islam is also poised to overtake Christainty. Anyway, none of that matters because most Western countries are secular government wise. It's not supposed to be a "Christian nation." Muslims are not entering "Christian nations." And Islam itself is not the issue.

Islam isn't going to overtake Christianity in western countries in your lifetime, let me lead with that. The only way in which it will "overtake" Christianity is that more people in the world follow that religion, but most of those people will be in countries that are already mostly Muslim.

Apart from that, while France has a separation of church and state, the largest religion in France is Christianity at 65% of the population, whereas Islam is at 8%. There's more atheists in France than there are Muslims. People are free to practice their religion as they want, but there are some things that these Christian-dominated (which was the word I used) countries will find unacceptable. In France that's burqas, in Iran that's... oh wait, there's no religious freedom in Iran.

My point is simply this: if you go to a country and you want to enforce your values there, be they religious or not, then bugger off back to your own country. The correct thing to do when you migrate to a country, planning to build up a life there, is to integrate. I had to do it, so I expect them to do it. It's not that hard.

 

[nintendofan85]

France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.

And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?

If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.

Yeah, Germany has bans on headscarves, from what I heard.
And you are right, in many countries, Christians are persecuted, especially in the Islamic world.

 

[oath2order]

Yeah, Germany has bans on headscarves, from what I heard.
And you are right, in many countries, Christians are persecuted, especially in the Islamic world.

Christians are basically only persecuted in countries that don't have a Christian majority.

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

Iran and Saudi Arabia have a lot of "pull" in the UN, so I don't see how their treatment of people of non-Muslim faith should be accepted while we condemn laws passed in France. Seems like a blatant double standard to me.

They aren't part of the United Nations Secruity Council.

I don't remember anyone saying that.

You implied the problem was Islam by suggesting Muldimd as a whole need to change.

Islam isn't going to overtake Christianity in western countries in your lifetime, let me lead with that. The only way in which it will "overtake" Christianity is that more people in the world follow that religion, but most of those people will be in countries that are already mostly Muslim.

Overtake in number of believers. The world's most practiced religion and I'll play a big role on world dynamics. That's just how it is.

Apart from that, while France has a separation of church and state, the largest religion in France is Christianity at 65% of the population, whereas Islam is at 8%. There's more atheists in France than there are Muslims. People are free to practice their religion as they want, but there are some things that these Christian-dominated (which was the word I used) countries will find unacceptable. In France that's burqas, in Iran that's... oh wait, there's no religious freedom in Iran.

My point is simply this: if you go to a country and you want to enforce your values there, be they religious or not, then bugger off back to your own country. The correct thing to do when you migrate to a country, planning to build up a life there, is to integrate. I had to do it, so I expect them to do it. It's not that hard.

Most aren't instilling their values? Their values are Christian mostly, anyway. Both are Abrahamic religions. Christians are also supposed to cover up, if you didn't know this. It's modern ideals that are clashing, not Christian.

There's s fine line between assimilation and retaining cultural identity. It's very hard to distinguish. Even harder when you were forced to leave your home behind, not come willingly. But this isn't entirely relevant to militant groups. The migrants aren't the terrorists, they are boring used by the terrorists as a means to enter. But the terrorists don't want to come and join another nation, so I fail to see the connection between what you are complaining about and the terrorist attacks in Paris.

 

[Shimmer]

Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
I'm really worried because my bf lives there...

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
I'm really worried because my bf lives there...

ISIS has threatened to attack every major city and several famous people. Most are safe.

 

[radical6]

Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
I'm really worried because my bf lives there...

You do realize there could never be a fullscale invasion because the US would just **** them up

Everyone in the middle east has two guns to their heads. One is by ISIS who says "accept us or we will kill your family and friends" and the other is the Western nations saying "make a move against us and we will kill your family and friends"

One group has the actual power to wipe these nations out quickly though. Hint, it's not ISIS!

To be truthful, a lot of these people are just scared. If they speak up their families will die. If they don't speak up they're accused of murder and ****.

It's a lot easier to just ignore ISIS and the West in general. But it's finally reached a climax where they must choose sides. Think of how most American Christians think of the WBC or the KKK. They're stupid and wrong. But no one has enough energy or devotion to actually take them down. This is how they imagined ISIS, well before they started knocking on their doorsteps anyway.

These European countries are complaining about like, what, 20k refugees? Jordan has taken in one million refugees and its king has already declared war on ISIS. Lebanon has taken in a million refugees as well. Many of the surrounding nations are taking refugees in, but they can't hold up any longer.

You can argue there's a bigger difference of culture in Jordan than France. But the queen of Jordan openly walks around with no hijab and even told people who criticized her for not wearing her hijab to **** off.