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Mafia TBT Newbie Game VII: The Daily Tragedy - Town win

toadsworthy said:
lol, nothing I said this game was untrue as well... so if you are gonna try to policy lynch me every time like you said you are, I can't wait to do this again and again and again and again to you every single game :)
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Stop whining about it, just drop the subject. You made a mistake. If you want to redeem yourself show it with your actions instead of being mad at the fact people don't want to play with you because of it.
 
Can we just not policy lynch in the first place.. I mean WOTC's there for a reason

I feel like this game's success was really rooted in the RQs at the beginning. That was when town picked out both Iwase and Fleshy. From there, there was a lot of pressure applied to both of them, and that solidified the suspicion in them, which got Fleshy lynched. And then for D2, there wasn't nearly as much questioning - people had already developed their opinions for the most part, which sent El to the chopping block too.

@Mafia Being scum is hard, tbh. Don't beat yourselves up over this. That being said, I think there's a lot you guys can learn from this game.

First off, when it got to the point where you two got pit against eachother... you either need to bus the hell out of eachother, or try to find a different alternative to one of you two being lynched. It felt like you guys passively accepted that one of you two were going to be lynched, and you didn't really set it up that well initially. Of course, with El being afk in the beginning there, it's kind of hard to establish the kind of tension a successful bus needed. A bus works if it felt like you guys were actually advocating eachothers' lynch - it felt like you found the other suspicious because they were "the other person".

And for the lynch itself, not sure if you guys planned it, but lynching Fleshy was the right call for you guys. Even though El got lynched the next day, Fleshy was cast with a TON of suspicion at that point, to the point of it being pretty much unrecoverable. El was townread by entropy, which was a huge positive considering people tend to like to sheep experienced players.

I think this is also a lesson in presence - the less you post, the less of a hand you have in the direction town goes. And a town that's free from mafian influence is very dangerous to you guys. Not to mention that it felt like it was town bossing you guys around rather than the other way around. You guys have the information advantage. Use your information to direct town into false leads.

As mafians, you have 2 ways to approach playing: the pseudo town game, or the scum game.

For the pseudo town game, try to forget you're scum all together in chat. Forget the extra information you know. Then play normally. It's a lot harder than it sounds, but it's going to be the best method in the long run - people won't be able to figure out your meta, and you'll get people to townread you heavily, making avoiding inspections a lot easier, and getting people to listen a hell of a lot easier if you go into scum mode towards the end of the game (if you're feeling bold). This is the strategy to go if mafia is losing - blending in would be rewarded much more heavily than trying to make some bold plays. But it has 2 main drawbacks - you aren't really in control of implementing the mafians' will onto town, and it's hard to forget what your actual role is. But if you practice, you'll get better in time.

For the scum game, there's three things you guys should be looking for: times where someone did something that could be realistically construed as scummy, suspicion against you, and topics that could derail thread. If someone says something shady, you can point town's focus in their direction, making them lose sight of who's actually scum. If there's suspicion against you, evaluate the argument. If answering it would make you look worse than if you ignored it, and the person casting suspicion isn't the type to follow up, you might want to try to sweep it under the rug. Otherwise, answer it. If there's something going on that's preventing town from scumhunting, I'm not saying promote drama, but it might be a good idea to perpetrate it to some extent. The longer town is distracted, the less time they're spending looking for you.

The pros to this is that it usually buys scum roughly a day to do whatever they need to do, as long as they aren't too obvious. This is useful for if you need one day to clench mafia the win, or if mafia has a significant upper hand, and it's easier to do than forgetting your role. However, people can start meta reading you, which if they're good meta readers, leads to you getting pretty screwed after a game or two. Also people are more likely to suspect you, as what I just described has pretty obvious mafian motivations - and if they're smart, they're gonna pick up on that.

Usually the best method is a combination of these two. How much you combine them is up to you and your playstyle.

Gonna do town analysis in a little.
 
@Town Getting a perfect game is no easy feat - we did well! I don't feel like there's too much to say. That being said, I don't really feel like this game was extremely reflective of what most games look like for town. Mafia's tells are usually more hidden, and this is a pretty darn small game.

Kudos for not townreading toads/entropy/me because of experience. One of us could have easily been scum, and I saw you guys use a lot of critical thinking to come to the conclusion that we were town. So props to that! I feel like there were a few people who carried and a few AFKs though - that's going to happen every game, but the more you're inactive, the more you hurt your alignment.

As Ness said, lynches can be extremely stressful, though it tends to be a big part of the game. Slow lynches like we had D2 aren't the norm. In fact, I was a little nervous at how complacent everyone seemed once they placed their vote. It's not good to let this paralyze you, but you always need to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Don't grow complacent in questioning people because you think you have the game figured out, because there might be something you didn't consider, or something you analyzed incorrectly, and it'd throw off the entire premise you have set up.

It never came up, so I feel like it's important to remind people - be careful of reaching majority. And then also we had people talking about insane cop and the like - always know the setup you're going into. Reading the OP may be tiring, but you need to know what you're getting yourself into each game.

That's all that really comes to mind! If you guys have any other questions, or want me/other people in here to critique your play, shoot!
 
There is so much wrong and misconstrued about what happened in that game, I'm done talking about it because it makes me just look worse rather than people being open to understand. I've explained it many a time, but people just see it as another emotional toady post and criticize off that. I came into this game positive, enthusiastic, ready to change, and it was met with a PL surrounded by snide comments about it from Entropy. Clearly there is bias or personal opinion associated with that, theres no getting around it, and while I can understand the implications of PL, the fact it was made justifiable 24 hours into day 1 was not cool. I acknowledged how rude I was/ that I made a mistake post game last time and reflected about it, but no one clearly cares. Its easier to harbor ill will about it than try to be open-minded about how I felt in that situation or feel looking at games now. Yeah I'm done talking about it too, nor did I bring it up this game... but you can be sure I will have the last word about it.
 
Arstotzkan said:
If you guys have any other questions, or want me/other people in here to critique your play, shoot!
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Oooh, me please! I'd love some critique of how I played. It's hard to get perspective on how I'm progressing, I think that's pretty normal though.

Ahhhh man it seems silly to complain about our perfect win, I just feel like we lost a lot of valuable information and experience by winning so "easily". Well, hopefully there'll be another newbie game soon!

---

Last time I'm going to address the Toads stuff : dude, I refused to vote for you in MLC as I just couldn't see you as anything but genuine Town. I don't want a prize for being right, but I think I should have earned a healthy amount of respect from you after those - undeniably stressful - events. And. I. Believed. You. I wasn't the only one, either.

But you didn't attack, criticise, or otherwise derail me. Whether you can recognise it or not at this point, you did all of those things to entropy. I strongly suggest you take some time to reflect on your words and the consequences of your choices - especially how they impacted other people. As much as you're aggressively seeking people to understand your perspective, it's equally as important that you really try to understand their's. Take a break, cool down, then go back and read the threads again and try and put yourself in entropy's position - and mine.

This wasn't supposed to be the "drama-llama part 2" game - this was for us newbie players to play Mafia in a controlled setup. I could not possibly care less who ****ing started it, I just care that I keep needing to filter out the irrelevant posts - mostly from you - in order to focus on the situation at hand. I was really hopeful we could move on with this game, and it started well. But then..

Look. We all make mistakes, and I'm not trying to suggest I'm somehow better than you - but, despite how frustrating you are to deal with at times, *I happen to quite like you AND the way you think when you're not in the midst of a emotional meltdown* ... and I don't want to seriously have to WOTC you, and look at blocking you, I just don't need to resort to things like that normally. So I'm asking you to please, please try to work through this and learn what you can from it *and then move on ASAP*.

You can keep trying to have the last word if you want, I just wanted to make myself clear on why I'm fed up with this and what I'd like to see happen in the future. This is a game and, as much as I'm enjoying the challenge so far, I'm sceptical how long I'll want to participate if this kind of "salt" is indicative of what I can expect.

---

GG EVERYONE!!! Thanks for the experience, and especially to N e s s for running the game, Kat for being IC, and entropy and Toads for being SEs!

:)
 
If you guys want to continue talking about this, can you please take it to PM? I get emotions are high, but dont ruin post game for others with this.

@Amanda Rn Tom's trying to enforce bans to reduce salt, so hopefully this isnt a recurring trend. Sorry about this :(
 
Arstotzkan said:
If you guys want to continue talking about this, can you please take it to PM? I get emotions are high, but dont ruin post game for others with this.

@Amanda Rn Tom's trying to enforce bans to reduce salt, so hopefully this isnt a recurring trend. Sorry about this :(
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I don't think it's a "reduce salt" thing, but you know whatever.


I enjoyed watching the game, gg town.
 
Liamslash said:
I don't think it's a "reduce salt" thing, but you know whatever.


I enjoyed watching the game, gg town.
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The intent is to reduce salt, whether by removing outright toxic players, people who leave sign up and abandon games often, or are generally bad sports.
 
Tom said:
The intent is to reduce salt, whether by removing outright toxic players, people who leave sign up and abandon games often, or are generally bad sports.
Click to expand...

Hmm yeah but if you actually read what it counts as
"Inactivity / Quitting - 2 weeks, 1 month on repeat offences
If you are inactive in a game (as defined by the game's Inactivity rules, read them before playing!) after being issued a written warning in PM from the host, then you may be eligible for banning under the category. Quitting a game before it ends is also an offence of this rule."
"Aggressive Behaviour - 2 weeks, 1 month on repeat offences
Forum suspensions, infractions and warnings apply as well
In accordance with the forum Rules & Guidelines. If you harass, bully, insult or attack another player with malicious intent, then you may be eligible for banning under the category. Tactic and playstyle do not act as exemption from this rule. "

I didn't do any of the above yet I still got banned for it lol.
 
Liamslash said:
Hmm yeah but if you actually read what it counts as
"Inactivity / Quitting - 2 weeks, 1 month on repeat offences
If you are inactive in a game (as defined by the game's Inactivity rules, read them before playing!) after being issued a written warning in PM from the host, then you may be eligible for banning under the category. Quitting a game before it ends is also an offence of this rule."
"Aggressive Behaviour - 2 weeks, 1 month on repeat offences
Forum suspensions, infractions and warnings apply as well
In accordance with the forum Rules & Guidelines. If you harass, bully, insult or attack another player with malicious intent, then you may be eligible for banning under the category. Tactic and playstyle do not act as exemption from this rule. "

I didn't do any of the above yet I still got banned for it lol.
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maybe you were banned for "If you harass, bully, insult or attack another player with malicious intent, then you may be eligible for banning under the category"
 
N e s s said:
maybe you were banned for "If you harass, bully, insult or attack another player with malicious intent, then you may be eligible for banning under the category"
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Ness stop acting like I should rock you back to forth and sing you a lullaby to bed. Grow up.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Damniel said:
There is the unspoken rule of not being a butt
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But isn't that the Mafia community already
 
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