Overwatch General Thread

[seliph]

They're still making changes to POTG, they're still somewhat based off how close you were to the objective and I'm not sure that's working out well since Bastions can still get potg so easily by just sitting on the point/payload in turret mode.

Also I think Torbjorn's turret should be exempt from POTG honestly.

Practicing Widow as usual while also checking out other heroes like Genji, D va and McCree. Totally stoked for Ana, hopefully Widiw gets buffed in the new patch too. It's hard aiming for headshots on PS4 ugh.

*hisses*

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

He was never meant to kill tanks. Genj, 76, and Tracer can't do nearly as much as Reaper who does 140 if he hits every pellet and is meant to be a tank killer. Excluding headshot damage from Reaper, Roadhog and Snipers, MCree has the highest headshot damage at 150, tied with Mei. Which can one shot a Tracer. That's really good. After this buff, he can do it anywhere and a Tracer can't do anything about it except zigzag there way from spawn hoping to learn the Matrix on the way there.

I do agree that McCree in the live game is too weak but I also think he's too good in the PTR, he just needs a happy balance in between.

(I also thought McCree did 70 per bullet and 140 for headshots but I was wrong, http://overwatch.guide/heroes/mccree/ )

I'm not saying he should be a tank killer, I'm saying that unless you're point blank to a tank, you might as well ignore them as McCree. (Low clip size coupled with heavy fall off damage makes it very bad. Especially when his main form of damage is his alt-fire, which is dependent on having a full clip and your roll up.)


If you're worried about being headshot by a McCree across the map as Tracer, I don't know what to say about that. That rarely happens from even Widowmakers, let alone McCree. If a McCree is headshotting you across the map, I think he deserves the kill.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Also I think Torbjorn's turret should be exempt from POTG honestly.

There's a lot that needs changing about Torbjorn - particularly his turret's lock-on.

I don't care if they give him more damage to make up for it, I'm tired of being instantly-pixel-sniped by a turret 3 rooms away.

 

[Horus]

I'm not saying he should be a tank killer, I'm saying that unless you're point blank to a tank, you might as well ignore them as McCree. (Low clip size coupled with heavy fall off damage makes it very bad. Especially when his main form of damage is his alt-fire, which is dependent on having a full clip and your roll up.)


If you're worried about being headshot by a McCree across the map as Tracer, I don't know what to say about that. That rarely happens from even Widowmakers, let alone McCree. If a McCree is headshotting you across the map, I think he deserves the kill.

What are you talking about. Widowmaker was so good they nerfed her and that's because she can do a 300 damage in a hitscan shot. She literally could carry a team in competitive. I don't really care about the level of play you're in, but McCree's headshot could destroy Tracer in competitive and it honestly is not hard to catch a Tracer in between Blinks. What can a Tracer do against McCree? If you stay away from him you can get headshot but if you get close you get stunned and headshot. With snipers, Tracers just get close and out DPS them, for things like Roadhog and Pre-buffed McCree you just stay away from them. With the buff, you have to dodge McCree has he spams bullets at your head and there isn't anything you can do about it.

I'm not saying he should be a tank killer, I'm saying that unless you're point blank to a tank, you might as well ignore them as McCree. (Low clip size coupled with heavy fall off damage makes it very bad. Especially when his main form of damage is his alt-fire, which is dependent on having a full clip and your roll up.)

His main damage is no longer his right click, it's why they nerfed it and buffed his left click. Blizzard said they want him to be dependent on accuracy. A.K.A. getting headshots. His right click is used to finish off targets that you've already damaged. Also, there isn't really any tank that can do anything to you from afar. Maybe get hooked by a Roadhog but you're more or less asking for it if you're taking him on.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

What are you talking about. Widowmaker was so good they nerfed her and that's because she can do a 300 damage in a hitscan shot. She literally could carry a team in competitive.

What did that have to do with what I was saying? I was saying it's difficult to get headshot even by a Widow, who's main focus is getting headshots.

I don't really care about the level of play you're in, but McCree's headshot could destroy Tracer in competitive and it honestly is not hard to catch a Tracer in between Blinks. What can a Tracer do against McCree? If you stay away from him you can get headshot but if you get close you get stunned and headshot.

McCree soft-counters Tracer for a very good reason.

Tracer's place in competitive is fine. If we're going by theoreticals, she should never have been picked in the first place because Hanzo one-shots her. As does Reaper. And both can spam their damage. Also Winston exists.

With snipers, Tracers just get close and out DPS them, for things like Roadhog and Pre-buffed McCree you just stay away from them.

With the buff you learn to play around McCree's flashbang like you already have to do:
Fight him just outside of his flashbang range. Not in it. Jump on him when he whiffs it.

This is the same way you fight Reaper as Tracer though I don't recommend fighting him in general. Cept you can never just "jump on him" as his reload is too quick. Your damage falls off way slower than his does as you increase the gap between you two.

With the buff, you have to dodge McCree has he spams bullets at your head and there isn't anything you can do about it.

Abuse your mobility? It's not like you're standing still or your opponent has perfect aim. just saying "he has to get a headshot" is way easier said than done. Especially on Tracer.

Besides, as Tracer you really shouldn't be in sight of him much at long range anyway, which is where this buff will effect him. I've only ever skirmished with McCrees at close range. This buff will only really affect Pharah, Hanzo, and tanks that aren't Reinhardt. It will be particularly rough on D.Va who is a walking headshot target.

His main damage is no longer his right click, it's why they nerfed it and buffed his left click. Blizzard said they want him to be dependent on accuracy. A.K.A. getting headshots. His right click is used to finish off targets that you've already damaged. Also, there isn't really any tank that can do anything to you from afar. Maybe get hooked by a Roadhog but you're more or less asking for it if you're taking him on.

If they want him to be dependent on accuracy his damage needs to be viable at long ranges where his accuracy will shine.



You're reading a lot of what I'm saying as though the patch has already gone out. I'm trying to say why the buff is a good idea.

 

[Horus]

What did that have to do with what I was saying? I was saying it's difficult to get headshot even by a Widow, who's main focus is getting headshots.

And I'm saying you're wrong, it's not hard to get shot in the head by a good Widow, it's why she was nerfed.

McCree soft-counters Tracer for a very good reason.

Tracer's place in competitive is fine. If we're going by theoreticals, she should never have been picked in the first place because Hanzo one-shots her. As does Reaper. And both can spam their damage. Also Winston exists.

But she has an out to all of those. She can stay away from Reaper. Get close to Hanzo. Stay away from Winston. She can do nothing about a character that can two hit her from anywhere.

With the buff you learn to play around McCree's flashbang like you already have to do:
Fight him just outside of his flashbang range. Not in it. Jump on him when he whiffs it.

This is the same way you fight Reaper as Tracer though I don't recommend fighting him in general. Cept you can never just "jump on him" as his reload is too quick. Your damage falls off way slower than his does as you increase the gap between you two.

Who even cares about the flashbang, you won't even be able to get near him as he can literally 1 hit you. Are you suppose to blink around until he uses all six bullets and hope you can finish him within the 1 second he's reloading?

Abuse your mobility? It's not like you're standing still or your opponent has perfect aim. just saying "he has to get a headshot" is way easier said than done. Especially on Tracer.

Besides, as Tracer you really shouldn't be in sight of him much at long range anyway, which is where this buff will effect him. I've only ever skirmished with McCrees at close range. This buff will only really affect Pharah, Hanzo, and tanks that aren't Reinhardt. It will be particularly rough on D.Va who is a walking headshot target.

Tracer isn't always going fast. Your blinks have a cool down. And are you serious? Stay out of his LoS? Are you suppose to just ignore the objective if he's looking at it?

D.Va has a toggleable Defense Matrix now so she has a way to deal with McCree

If they want him to be dependent on accuracy his damage needs to be viable at long ranges where his accuracy will shine.


You're reading a lot of what I'm saying as though the patch has already gone out. I'm trying to say why the buff is a good idea.

And I'm saying why it isn't. You can try it on the PTR. I don't think I've even seen Tracer picked on it.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

-snip-

A whole lot of what you're saying is implying that the McCree is a god and absolutely will one-shot the Tracer.

Just because he CAN oneshot you doesn't mean he will. That's what I'm trying to get at by pointing out Hanzo and Widow and whatnot. Potentially, yes, they can oneshot you too, but you don't see them doing it often unless you make a mistake. You can very easily outplay it just like every other hero who can 1-shot her. McCree is not a sniper and he's already been able to 1-shot Tracer in the situation he'll find her in 95% of the time.



And no, as a flanker, you generally SHOULDN'T be on the objective unless you're the only one there or it's safe to. You're not there to hold objectives, you're there to assassinate the backline, spawnkill people making their way back, and distract the tanks. So yes. Stay out of his line of sight if you're not confident enough in your ability to avoid his shots.

If you're on the front line as a flanking hero, then it's no surprise why you'd be afraid of getting sniped by Mccrees.

 

[Horus]

A whole lot of what you're saying is implying that the McCree is a god and absolutely will one-shot the Tracer.

Just because he CAN oneshot you doesn't mean he will. That's what I'm trying to get at by pointing out Hanzo and Widow and whatnot. Potentially, yes, they can oneshot you too, but you don't see them doing it often unless you make a mistake. You can very easily outplay it just like every other hero who can 1-shot her. McCree is not a sniper and he's already been able to 1-shot Tracer in the situation he'll find her in 95% of the time.

For Widow or Hanzo to one hit her, they need to charge their gun/bow. McCree can kill a Tracer by accident. I can't believe your argument is that there simply aren't players who can one shot a Tracer from range. That doesn't matter at all. A single bullet shouldn't be more destructive than a rocket propelled grenade. It shouldn't be able to just wipe a hero off the map with a single click. "Make a mistake" How is a single bullet to the head in any situation on Overwatch a mistake. You can't outplay a hitscan shot to the head, whether it's on purpose or not. You can't recall or blink away from a headshot to the head. A Zarya can't foresee a Tracer getting one shot. a Zenyatta, Lucio, Ana or Mercy can't save a Tracer from getting one shot even if they're healing them. The ONLY way a Tracer can get around a 150 damage, hitscan headshot is to get shields or armor from Symmetra/Torb. You cannot argue otherwise.

And no, as a flanker, you generally SHOULDN'T be on the objective unless you're the only one there or it's safe to. You're not there to hold objectives, you're there to assassinate the backline, spawnkill people making their way back, and distract the tanks. So yes. Stay out of his line of sight if you're not confident enough in your ability to avoid his shots.

If you're on the front line as a flanking hero, then it's no surprise why you'd be afraid of getting sniped by Mccrees.

There shouldn't be a reason why you can't run back to your team to heal, or heal while pushing a payload with your team. A flanker shouldn't solo an objective but there are reasons why you can be there.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

For Widow or Hanzo to one hit her, they need to charge their gun/bow. McCree can kill a Tracer by accident. I can't believe your argument is that there simply aren't players who can one shot a Tracer from range. That doesn't matter at all. A single bullet shouldn't be more destructive than a rocket propelled grenade. It shouldn't be able to just wipe a hero off the map with a single click. "Make a mistake" How is a single bullet to the head in any situation on Overwatch a mistake. You can't outplay a hitscan shot to the head, whether it's on purpose or not. You can't recall or blink away from a headshot to the head. A Zarya can't foresee a Tracer getting one shot. a Zenyatta, Lucio, Ana or Mercy can't save a Tracer from getting one shot even if they're healing them. The ONLY way a Tracer can get around a 150 damage, hitscan headshot is to get shields or armor from Symmetra/Torb. You cannot argue otherwise.

You outplay it by not giving them the opportunity to headshot you for free. Yes, with hitscan you have to accept there are times they will get lucky shots on you, but McCree has ALWAYS been able to get a lucky headshot on tracer that she might not be able to do anything about. By your logic, we should nerf McCree's base damage even further to the point where he can no longer one-shot her at any range, and thus possibly making him completely unplayable since he's already underpowered.

You outplay it by staying out of sight and getting the jump on him at a range where you do more damage. That's how you play Tracer.


There's only two ways to buff McCree to make him fit his role better: increase his base damage, or increase his range.
Increasing his base damage lowers his skill floor and makes him a tank killer.
Increasing his range raises his skill ceiling and makes him a general dps.

Or, and this would be rad imo: Consecutive shots on the same target do more damage, though that would require a bit of balancing on his alt fire.

There shouldn't be a reason why you can't run back to your team to heal, or heal while pushing a payload with your team. A flanker shouldn't solo an objective but there are reasons why you can be there.

????? Health packs ??????
????? Rewind ??????

 

[Horus]

You outplay it by not giving them the opportunity to headshot you for free. Yes, with hitscan you have to accept there are times they will get lucky shots on you, but McCree has ALWAYS been able to get a lucky headshot on tracer that she might not be able to do anything about. By your logic, we should nerf McCree's base damage even further to the point where he can no longer one-shot her at any range, and thus possibly making him completely unplayable since he's already underpowered.

You outplay it by staying out of sight and getting the jump on him at a range where you do more damage. That's how you play Tracer.


There's only two ways to buff McCree to make him fit his role better: increase his base damage, or increase his range.
Increasing his base damage lowers his skill floor and makes him a tank killer.
Increasing his range raises his skill ceiling and makes him a general dps.

Or, and this would be rad imo: Consecutive shots on the same target do more damage, though that would require a bit of balancing on his alt fire.




????? Health packs ??????
????? Rewind ??????

Always? No, if a Tracer just stayed away from his close range, she wouldn't get headshot. It'd be her fault she challenged it. Just accept it? You cannot go a full game without a McCree seeing you, this isn't a 1v1 game. There are better ways to balance McCree, like higher base damage but changing the Headshot multiplier so it's lower or non-existent. Balancing every hero and ones to come aren't black and white like you think it is. They all need to work in harmony. Getting one shot across the map is not harmony. I like your idea though.



Of course, I'm just saying there are times to be on the objective.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

Always? No, if a Tracer just stayed away from his close range, she wouldn't get headshot. It'd be her fault she challenged it. Just accept it? You cannot go a full game without a McCree seeing you, this isn't a 1v1 game. There are better ways to balance McCree, like higher base damage but changing the Headshot multiplier so it's lower or non-existent. Balancing every hero and ones to come aren't black and white like you think it is. They all need to work in harmony. Getting one shot across the map is not harmony. I like your idea though.



Of course, I'm just saying there are times to be on the objective.

Again, this change to his range has almost literally no effect on Tracer as the fall-off begins much farther than you think it does. This is specifically a buff for him to hurt tanks and Pharah. His interactions with Tracer should remain almost exactly the same unless you're standing still on the point.

Any other duel you'd have with McCree would put you in his old one-shot range and any place he's going to be spamming bullets at isn't a place Tracer would be coming from.

 

[tobi!]

If anyone would like to play I'm lvl 58
I can play junkrat, mercy, lucio
Also if needed (not the best)
Roadhog, pharah, Reinhardt, genji

 

[radical6]

ds

 

[Trent the Paladin]

I'm just glad I finished my competitive climb for now. Placed 51 after played essentially nothing but support and trying to keep people playing TDM alive instead of getting them to cap the point.

 

[radical6]

fdedc

 

[Acruoxil]

6 D.VA STACK WORKS IN COMPETITVE
IM ****ING LAUGHING MY ASS OFF

THIS WAS ROUND 5 OF ATTACK AND WE DID IT AGAIN AND WENT THE OTHETR WAY TO SURPRISE THEM HAHAHAHAHHAHA

It actually does, we were on attack and the defense team had D va's. Every time we swarmed on the objective someone spammed a D va ult. It was impossible to get on the point lol.

 

[tobi!]

incoming d.va nerf lol

 

[DarkDesertFox]

incoming d.va nerf lol

They're changing it so you can only play as one hero in competitive anyways.

 

[Horus]

Again, this change to his range has almost literally no effect on Tracer as the fall-off begins much farther than you think it does. This is specifically a buff for him to hurt tanks and Pharah. His interactions with Tracer should remain almost exactly the same unless you're standing still on the point.

Any other duel you'd have with McCree would put you in his old one-shot range and any place he's going to be spamming bullets at isn't a place Tracer would be coming from.

*sigh*

This is literally just do you think one-shots are okay or not. There really isn't a reason to continue with this anymore but there is a reason why there isn't any other character that can one hit a tracer with that range.

 

[Sanaki]

hi everyone

I started playing like a week or two after the launch, I'm only level 41 atm but I mainly play Genji, Hanzo, Widowmaker and Mercy. I play Soldier sometimes too. I don't really play much at the moment because I'm addicted to Pokemon again. my battle tag is Vaeska#11371

 

[Acruoxil]

hi everyone

I started playing like a week or two after the launch, I'm only level 41 atm but I mainly play Genji, Hanzo, Widowmaker and Mercy. I play Soldier sometimes too. I don't really play much at the moment because I'm addicted to Pokemon again. my battle tag is Vaeska#11371

Thank you so much for playing Widow, i have nothing but respect for you