Feminism Discussion Thread

[RhinoK]

You're mainly just throwing out a lot of generalizations.

Not all men are dominant over women.

Not all men are twisted to think that women are objects or that they belong in the kitchen.

Not all women believe that their supposed to be submissive and please men.

I understand that these are your experiences but you can't simply pin it on everyone. It insults both women and men.

You do realise feminists are probably going to mock you for using 'not all men', and then go on to say 'not all feminists are...'? Maybe I am throughout out a generalisation, but it's something I have seen over and over again

 

[pillow bunny]

You're trying to equate the struggles of men and women to be equal
No they aren't
Men have issues too. The point is,
Yes men's issues in society are important! But overall, men dominate in society, which is why before solving their issues, we need women to be treated as equals. There's never been a time when men were viewed as inferior to women in a GENERAL way. And that's the whole point in feminism, but you people come into this thread, and as soon as someone says something about double standards or anything, you jump to "it happens to men too" (please see: ALL LIVES MATTER)
Alright sure let's say it does. But like I said before
"overall, men dominate in society, which is why before solving their issues, we need women to be treated as equals. There's never been a time when men were viewed as inferior to women in a GENERAL way."

And Im pretty sure kaylee only said that because people are being annoying as ***.

okay yeah, but if feminism is going to do stuff to help men specifically the name should be changed. that's like having a group called blackism (idk) help, say, underprivileged asian kids. yes they believe in equality and are doing the right thing, but by changing the name it will sound more inclusive and appealing.

the name feminism implies that all our issues will be solved by helping females in x way, when really the male perspective must also be considered. it is different from saying "all lives matter", because the issues black lives matter focus on are exclusive to balck people

 

[Watchingthetreetops]

You're mainly just throwing out a lot of generalizations.

Not all men are dominant over women.

Not all men are twisted to think that women are objects or that they belong in the kitchen.

Not all women believe that their supposed to be submissive and please men.

I understand that these are your experiences but you can't simply pin it on everyone. It insults both women and men.

uh...yeah, maybe. I didn't mean to, which is why I use things like 'types of men' instead of....all men. My whole point has nothing to do with this, but that's okay. And when I did use men, it was to point out that they get paid more and got to vote before us, which are facts, not generalizations. My whole point here is to sort of....ease up this thread? Throw out actualities, not generalizations, and again, I don't mean any offense to everyone. But again, this might not be directed at me and if it's not then nevermind.

...facts are indisputable truths. Men DO get paid more and men DID get to vote as a right. Those are facts, not generalizations.

 

[Tao]

You're trying to equate the struggles of men and women to be equal
No they aren't

Again, as I've pointed out about 12 times now, I'm not trying to equate anybodies struggles to anybody else's. I'm merely pointing out that certain things happen to men as well as women whilst certain people seem to be under the impression that those certain things are exclusively for women.

That is not trying to equalize things, it's acknowledging that certain issues actually even exist in the first place since it's pretty much being argued by certain people that they don't.

If I was trying to equalize I would be saying it happens 'just as badly' or 'it effects men just as much'. I'm just saying 'the issue exists'.

Men have issues too. The point is,
Yes men's issues in society are important! But overall, men dominate in society, which is why before solving their issues, we need women to be treated as equals. There's never been a time when men were viewed as inferior to women in a GENERAL way. And that's the whole point in feminism, but you people come into this thread, and as soon as someone says something about double standards or anything, you jump to "it happens to men too" (please see: ALL LIVES MATTER)
Alright sure let's say it does. But like I said before
"overall, men dominate in society, which is why before solving their issues, we need women to be treated as equals. There's never been a time when men were viewed as inferior to women in a GENERAL way."

I also don't see why men need to sit on the back seat and wait for women to be treated fairly first. Why can't equality for both of them be worked on at the same time?

It would be like to saying "All ethnicity's should be equal, but we'll work on those with African decent first since they deserve it more. Asians will have to wait their turn". Or "Wait your turn, cancer. We're reaserching AIDs this year".

Is there something I'm missing? Is there something physically stopping us from working towards equality for everybody at the same time?

And Im pretty sure kaylee only said that because people are being annoying as ***.

Doesn't really matter though, does it? If a Indian person annoys me, that doesn't make it okay for me to say "damn, I hate Indian's".

 

[RhinoK]

...facts are indisputable truths. Men DO get paid more and men DID get to vote as a right. Those are facts, not generalizations.

Men DID get the right to vote, that's a fact. As for the wage gap...

 

[pillow bunny]

Men DID get the right to vote, that's a fact. As for the wage gap...

not going to watch the video rn since i'm on my phone, but generally employers tell their employees not to discuss their wages and women are seen as less strong workers than men even when their performance is identical, so it is possible to still perpetrate the wage gap. like discrimination based on race is illegal, but nonwhite people still face prejudice in the workplacr

 

[Ghost Soda]

And that's why Feminism has a bad reputation...

I didn't realize kaylee represented all feminists in the whole world.

I'm a bit...strange on this subject. I don't believe in the....give me this because I am special mentality of a lot of groups these days. For example, the new Ghostbusters movie sort of makes me sick. They're treating the fact that their cast is female as a gimmick, which makes me skeptical. Treating...being a woman as a trick to get people to watch your movie sort of defeats the point of writing about female characters. It isn't about...make things female. It's about: write females as characters. We are not 'females' we are 'human', therefore having something say: LOOK WE HAVE FEMALES makes my stomach sick. I don't want it as a gimmick, I want to be treated like my life is worth more then having babies and making families. I am not the female love interest in my life, I am the main character and there is more to me then my uterus.

I much prefer aligning myself with the 'he for she' movement, because there is a lot less negativity surrounding it. I will not blame men for the bad things that have happened to me, as I have made bad choices that involved men. And men have made bad choices that involve me. It isn't about being a woman or a man, it is about accepting that I am a female and I have male tendencies and this is all perfectly natural and okay, and He for She preaches not only this, but that men have female tenancies and that's okay, too. NO ONE is here to be the property of someone else. I am not meant to be someone else's side kick and that's it. I am here to be me and I could care absolutely less what you have to think about it. If you think that being a woman somehow makes me less, go ahead and tell me. I'm glad to remind anyone of how insignificant you and and all of your opinions are when compared to the universe. When compared to the vastness of the universe, you and I are nothing more then arguing specs of dust. So go ahead. Tell me how much better you are then me.

We are truly dancers on the same plane of existence and I will gladly do battle with you.

- - - Post Merge - - -

-------------

As is said above, statements like 'men are stupid' really /are/ why I don't like saying I'm a feminist. When I /do/ say it, I feel like I have to be careful, because it's things like that that make feminism a derogatory term now a days. Now, we had to fight to vote. We are fighting to be treated like humans. Women are not here to be the trophy for men. And that....that's really where I stand. And I really think it's important to recognize that things really /are/ changing. Women are not being seen like they were, before. I think...ug... people are feeling WAY too entitled. 'Give me special things because I am a special snowflake'. That's the mentality I see and it...just....grosses me out. I despise talking about it because people get offended so quickly, but you don't deserve anything special. If you want something special, go make it and be proud that you did, because if a meteor the size of mars plummets through the earth, you and your special qualities will not save you.

disclaimer: I mean no offense to anyone

You shouldn't let the fact that feminism has a stigma around it stop you from using the term, it is about equality after all. I'm a feminist and I don't blame men for everything or think I'm a special snowflake.

snip

First of all, you clearly know nothing about anything you're talking about here.

Gender is not 'literally body parts', that's sex. Gender is more psychological. And if someone wants to be female rather than male or vice versa then who the hell are you to tell them it's wrong? It's their body, not yours. Why should they keep their birth gender if they know they'd be much happier as the opposite?

 

[Princess]

Smh
Everyone in this thread acting like they're feminist... Feminism is about treating EVERYONE as equal. That includes men, and members of the trans community.

So seriously, stop or leave this thread. Because you are NOT feminist.

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

This thread went exactly in the direction it always does. Sad.

 

[Ghost Soda]

This thread went exactly in the direction it always does. Sad.

I though it was going well...

 

[Ashtot]

I didn't realize kaylee represented all feminists in the whole world.

I didn't say that at all.

What I'm saying is that the reason Feminism has such a bad rep is because of people that do this.

 

[Ghost Soda]

I didn't say that at all.

What I'm saying is that the reason Feminism has such a bad rep is because of people that do this.

True, but I also blame anti feminists for spreading such ignorant assumptions.

 

[Celestefey]

Of course any thread or discussion involving feminism will turn sour. It makes me sad but... It doesn't surprise me.

Because people will always bring up the same points:

1) If feminism is about equal rights between genders, then why is it called "FEMinism" - kind of irrelevant as to what it's called, but yeah, the movement does focus mostly on female rights, but does also focus a fair amount on male rights too. If you didn't know that, then now you do. A real feminist will fight for the rights of everyone, regardless of their gender - if you don't believe in that, then you're not a feminist. Simple as...

2) "Feminists hate men" - see above. ^^ Unfortunately very very radical 'feminists' tend to represent what feminism stands for so people tend to just see it as that.

3) "Men have it just as bad as women" - yes, undoubtedly, men do have to suffer through a lot too and experience sexism too. Women do face a lot more problems than men, but that does not mean that a mans problems are invalidated. We all have to face a lot of injustices in our day to day lives and that doesn't mean that any one of them okay.

4) "Feminism is not needed in 1st world countries" - it is. Of course women in 3rd world countries are discriminated against MUCH more than in 1st world countries, but that does not mean it is still not needed in 1st world countries. Women are still discriminated against on a day to day basis.

So seriously, guys, if you're going to come into this thread to just argue with one another or try to explain why you don't believe in feminism for the above reasons, then maybe you should do a bit more reading into the subject?

Tl;dr - feminism is about the equal rights for all genders. That's what it focuses on - gender. For men, women, and those that don't fall into either category. Gah, why does it have to be so much more complicated than that?

 

[Ashtot]

True, but I also blame anti feminists for spreading such ignorant assumptions.

It has little to do with anti Femenists, and I'm not sure if you're claiming that I am one but I certainly am not. The problem is that the majority of people will see something negative once and it will stick in their head as that's just the way it is. For instance if there is a shooting and a rescue, the shooting will get talked about much more because of it's nature. The people that see this kind of thing most of the time aren't anti Feminists, but regular people. Sure, it's wrong and they should do their research, but that simply isn't what they'll do.

 

[kayleee]

Literally my response to the men in this thread was in direct correlation to how ignorant they are acting
So basically just stating a fact

And also rhinoK clearly your feelings ARE hurt

 

[Ghost Soda]

It has little to do with anti Femenists, and I'm not sure if you're claiming that I am one but I certainly am not. The problem is that the majority of people will see something negative once and it will stick in their head as that's just the way it is. For instance if there is a shooting and a rescue, the shooting will get talked about much more because of it's nature. The people that see this kind of thing most of the time aren't anti Feminists, but regular people. Sure, it's wrong and they should do their research, but that simply isn't what they'll do.

It has everything to do with them. If they would take two seconds to actually do some research into what feminism is instead of listening to the extremists and then generalizing all feminists based on that, then feminism might not have the stigma it has.

I didn't say you're anti feminist.

Literally my response to the men in this thread was in direct correlation to how ignorant they are acting
So basically just stating a fact

And also rhinoK clearly your feelings ARE hurt

But it's unfair to say 'the men in this thread'. There are plenty of guys that are making good posts.

 

[pillow bunny]

It has everything to do with them. If they would take two seconds to actually do some research into what feminism is instead of listening to the extremists and then generalizing all feminists based on that, then feminism might not have the stigma it has.

I didn't say you're anti feminist.

can you really blame them though? people should be able to know the purpose of a movement based on its name

although yeah, anti feminists are misogynistic and terrible

 

[Ashtot]

It has everything to do with them. If they would take two seconds to actually do some research into what feminism is instead of listening to the extremists and then generalizing all feminists based on that, then feminism might not have the stigma it has.

I didn't say you're anti feminist.

You have to understand that this is simply how the world works. The population consists of around 90% followers and 10% leaders, which in turn means that people will simply see something, and follow it, just because of their nature. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that this is the case, and that fighting it the way you suggest is simply unreasonable and won't happen for a long, long time, until it becomes the norm, and the norm is controlled by that 90%.

 

[kayleee]

It has everything to do with them. If they would take two seconds to actually do some research into what feminism is instead of listening to the extremists and then generalizing all feminists based on that, then feminism might not have the stigma it has.

I didn't say you're anti feminist.



But it's unfair to say 'the men in this thread'. There are plenty of guys that are making good posts.

Okay true. 2-3 people specifically

 

[pillow bunny]

You have to understand that this is simply how the world works. The population consists of around 90% followers and 10% leaders, which in turn means that people will simply see something, and follow it, just because of their nature. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that this is the case, and that fighting it the way you suggest is simply unreasonable and won't happen for a long, long time, until it becomes the norm, and the norm is controlled by that 90%.

yeah somehow i doubt that only 10% of the population have brains and the rest are sheeps