Feminism Discussion Thread

[MozzarellaSticks]

I disagree. There are definitely people that claim to be Feminists who are extremists that discredit the movement, and are "inside".

The same goes for other major groups such as religion or politics.

For instance there are radical Christians that are inside the movement that discredit it, as well as Muslims and other religions.

When it comes to politics there are always radicals as well who are seen as inside the movement but tarnish the name of a party or a political stance etc.

Yeah, there are always extremists. There are extremists for everything. It's how it is. They don't represent a movement, and people know that. Think about why we stagmatize a certain group. Think about when the stigma came from. Think about who gets air time. There's a reason it's portrayed a certain way to us.

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How are my feelings hurt? Are you making assumptions again? I think I know my feelings better than you sweety

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was there any doubt

You are honestly part of the reason it did, so no.

 

[Watchingthetreetops]

What you're thinking of is the concept of being assigned a gender at birth.
Since babies aren't really sentient yet (they aren't capable of complex thought + communication), they can't understand what the concept of gender, sex, or basically anything is until they're older.
It's a similar concept to how we give animals genders. Since animals aren't sentient and have no concept of gender in the first place, they technically don't have a gender. Instead we colloquially refer to them by their sex instead.



And no, nobody in this thread is using gender synonymously with personality - if we were, then every tomboy would be a boy and every feminine man would be a woman, but that's not how it is.

The thing to understand here is that gender is a form of self-identification and feeling and sex is the body that you have.\
Think of it like a computer: Gender is software, but Sex is hardware.

You explained it eloquently and I commend thee, sir.

 

[Bowie]

I love how we had a religious thread and managed to keep it stable (surprisingly), but we can't even keep a thread about gender equality stable.

 

[Ashtot]

I love how we had a religious thread and managed to keep it stable (surprisingly), but we can't even keep a thread about gender equality stable.

It's pretty stable right now, it would help if you didn't make unnecessary comments.

 

[radical6]

i'm pretty sure this is meant to be a super cool shutdown post and force me into exile due to shame. but so far, you have not actually responded to any of my posts. you have just being calling me an idiot and a 13 year old. the whole trans thing makes no sense to me, but instead of trying to explain it you've just been insulting me.

Why should I explain anything to you? You refuse to take it seriously. You refuse to acknowledge body dysphoria is real. My body is mine, and what I choose to do with it is none of your concern. You cannot stop trans people from getting surgery. It's simple as that.

You want to know why I'm pissed as hell? Because you are throwing everything I've suffered in my face and saying it's not real. That I'm just a stupid ***** for believing I'm trans lol.

You do not sympathize with me. You do not understand my pain. You are saying my pain isn't valid or real. That's why I'm so ****ing pissed.

as i have said multiple times, male and female BATHROOMS and CHANGEROOMS (also some sports) should be segregated based on biological sex because they have different body parts. NO OTHER PLACES should be separate. if a transwoman is really a woman, she will express that in all other aspects of her life. having to use a toilet on the left side of the hallway instead of the right should not be the issue that makes or breaks her identity, because that is literally saying woman=female man=male, which as far as i know is the opposite of what you believe

And what if a trans woman (notice the space) got surgery? Would you still deny her?
There is no reason why pre transistioned trans women can't use the same room as cis women either. You really think a trans woman will go around showing her parts to everyone? What if she dressed as a woman, but you sent her to the males locker room? Think how easily she could get assaulted.

can a nazi run around killing people, and then say they are the victim because "americans want to imprison us" and "nazis are literally being murdered for their beliefs"? yes, that was a terrible example and no, i don't believe trans people are worse than nazis or anything. but if i had never heard of a nazi and that was all people told me when i asked what they were, how would i know the difference? you have provided reasons why TERFs are evil (actually only one reason, but i digress) but have not seen a reason to believe in trans people's identities other than "but TERFs are mean!"

Did you just...****ing compare me to nazis? What the **** is wrong with you?

TERFs aren't just mean, you ****ing idiot. They ****ing PASS LAWS AGAINST TRANS PEOPLE. They ****ing PREVENT TRANS WOMEN FROM GETTING HORMONES. They harass trans women. They want trans women to kill themselves. If you align yourself with this movement, then you are disgusting.

I have seen trans women get outed to the whole world by TERFs. For no reason other than being a trans woman. A TERF called up a girls doctor to prevent her from getting hormones.

i assume you're a liberal based on your posts. since liberals are "mean" to conservatives, should we all become conservatives instead without taking a second to look at each side's beliefs?

theres more than liberals and conservatives you goddamn dumbass. dont argue politics with me oh my god youre 13 and youre so stupid

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It's pretty stable right now, it would help if you didn't make unnecessary comments.

i ruined it

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

Friend I realize what they're saying, but I think it's time for you to take a step from the computer and breathe a little. This kind of anger isn't healthy.

 

[radical6]

honestly i can nicely explain my views to most people, but terfs dont deserve any of my sympathy. unlike most people, they are ignorant by choice. they are transphobic by choice. i have talked to various people here and gotten them to understand my PoV, but terfs idk why i even bother because pillow clearly thinks she knows about MY body and MY life.

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Friend I realize what they're saying, but I think it's time for you to take a step from the computer and breathe a little. This kind of anger isn't healthy.

yeah i know im just pissed im usually calm anyway

 

[Bowie]

It's pretty stable right now, it would help if you didn't make unnecessary comments.

Are we looking at the same thread here?

Anyway, this escalated quickly. Nevertheless, it's very interesting to hear what people have to say about this particularly sensitive topic.

 

[Watchingthetreetops]

I'm going to hush this down.

It's okay. It isn't okay that any of us have to face these issues, it isn't okay that women had to fight for the right to vote, and it isn't okay that terrible, horrible things are happening as you read this. But you, in front of your computer, are going to be okay. Are you transgender? Well, you'll figure it out, and I can't say for everyone, but I am here for anyone who needs someone. If you'd like to talk about your issues and what you've faced, feel free to contact me, as I keep my doors open. No, there are /a lot/ of things that aren't okay, but acting from a place of negativity in your heart might be more detrimental to your cause then beneficial, whatever the cause may be.

Feminism is real, supported by both men and women who believe in the rights of women. Transgender is also a very real thing, although different then feminism, but transgender people can support the idea that women should be equal. I mean no harm in my statements, I just want to calm the fires that started here. Because feminism is not about...hatred. There is anger, I won't deny that, because there are things women simply don't have because their sexual organs are on the inside. But none of this is worth the effort of getting angry at one another. We're a community here. Let's resolve everything and let our differences subside. Getting angry at one another won't fix anything, and will only make another throw away thread with leftover, frustrated people.

I'd hate for a thread about this topic to end this way. And I'd like to see us, as a community, get along. That's all.

 

[radical6]

I'm going to hush this down.

It's okay. It isn't okay that any of us have to face these issues, it isn't okay that women had to fight for the right to vote, and it isn't okay that terrible, horrible things are happening as you read this. But you, in front of your computer, are going to be okay. Are you transgender? Well, you'll figure it out, and I can't say for everyone, but I am here for anyone who needs someone. If you'd like to talk about your issues and what you've faced, feel free to contact me, as I keep my doors open. No, there are /a lot/ of things that aren't okay, but acting from a place of negativity in your heart might be more detrimental to your cause then beneficial, whatever the cause may be.

Feminism is real, supported by both men and women who believe in the rights of women. Transgender is also a very real thing, although different then feminism, but transgender people can support the idea that women should be equal. I mean no harm in my statements, I just want to calm the fires that started here. Because feminism is not about...hatred. There is anger, I won't deny that, because there are things women simply don't have because their sexual organs are on the inside. But none of this is worth the effort of getting angry at one another. We're a community here. Let's resolve everything and let our differences subside. Getting angry at one another won't fix anything, and will only make another throw away thread with leftover, frustrated people.

well considering the fact i just got compared to nazis i got pretty ****ing angry.

i actually do not care about rhinok/tao/ashtot being against feminism or whatever their stances are. i have more of a problem of people who identify within the movement and hold toxic violent views.

its just sad for me to see. trans women helped build lgbt rights and feminism in the 60s, and now theyre pushed away to the side.

i have never really cared for second wave feminism. thats what most terfs are, anyway. third wave feminism is by no means perfect, and most the time i find everyone too liberal (no im not a conservative i consider myself leftist. not naming my political ideas in this thread anyway) to care about it anymore.

third wave feminism tries to put more focus on women of color than second wave feminism ever did. third wave feminism is trying to reach out more to trans women. third wave feminism is trying to help victims of rape and abuse more than second wave feminism ever did. including male victims.

its just annoying to see people still pushing second wave feminism ideals

 

[Watchingthetreetops]

I know. And I understand where you're both coming from. I'm not here to take sides. I really just want to calm everyone down. I believe in the good in feminism, and I believe that it is necessary. I'm interested in everyone's opinion. It's best to assume I lived under a rock for the first nineteen years of my life and only recently crawled out to see the world. But I'd rather not like this thread to go down the path it's....well, gone down. That's all.

 

[piichinu]

This thread isn't even going badly what's everyone talking about

 

[Jarrad]

Why should I explain anything to you? You refuse to take it seriously. You refuse to acknowledge body dysphoria is real. My body is mine, and what I choose to do with it is none of your concern. You cannot stop trans people from getting surgery. It's simple as that.

You want to know why I'm pissed as hell? Because you are throwing everything I've suffered in my face and saying it's not real. That I'm just a stupid ***** for believing I'm trans lol.

You do not sympathize with me. You do not understand my pain. You are saying my pain isn't valid or real. That's why I'm so ****ing pissed.



And what if a trans woman (notice the space) got surgery? Would you still deny her?
There is no reason why pre transistioned trans women can't use the same room as cis women either. You really think a trans woman will go around showing her parts to everyone? What if she dressed as a woman, but you sent her to the males locker room? Think how easily she could get assaulted.



Did you just...****ing compare me to nazis? What the **** is wrong with you?

TERFs aren't just mean, you ****ing idiot. They ****ing PASS LAWS AGAINST TRANS PEOPLE. They ****ing PREVENT TRANS WOMEN FROM GETTING HORMONES. They harass trans women. They want trans women to kill themselves. If you align yourself with this movement, then you are disgusting.

I have seen trans women get outed to the whole world by TERFs. For no reason other than being a trans woman. A TERF called up a girls doctor to prevent her from getting hormones.



theres more than liberals and conservatives you goddamn dumbass. dont argue politics with me oh my god youre 13 and youre so stupid

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i ruined it

Making posts like this is just going to get you an infraction. It's unnecessary. If you can't discuss the topic at hand in a civil manner then don't bother discussing it at all, because when people start using this type of hostility towards other users then that's when threads which actually have an interesting and engaging topic to discuss get closed.

Don't ruin this for the rest of us. Take your drama to your private messages.

Also, if this is all a sensitive topic for you then I'd thoroughly recommend avoiding this thread, for your own benefit. Comments like you've made contribute nothing to this discussion.

 

[pippy1994]

I'm all for equal rights, but I do not label myself as a feminist. There's really no need for the label.
Personally I don't see a problem with equality as things are now, at least in Australia that is. As for some other countries, yes something needs to be done about equality.

 

[PrincessSara]

what the holy mother of god is this thread and why is it not LOCKED?
I browsed all 32 pages of this hateful-minded TERF-teenager garbage and am utterly OUTRAGED at ALL the negative-minded transphobia it produced, the only non-trans person that had their head on straight seemed to be Princess.

I'd love to know why the mods are letting the first 25 or so pages of hate-crime nonsense stay how it is instead of just deleting this entire thread because it really is nothing more than that past page 2 or 3. Several peoples supposed 'education' on trans issues and the TERF-tirade march made me want to do unspeakable things to those that perpetuated this ridiculous BS. I come back from my friggin break from user-drama to THIS? are you ****ing KIDDING ME?

THESE FORUMS ARE NOT SAFE PLACES FOR ALL ITS MEMBERS.

Honestly this thread makes me never want to come back here despite having met some wonderful people, but if transphobiac **** like this is going to be allowed to be posted, I'd be better to browse friggin one of the *chans than read this drivel as at least some of them SUPPORT trans rights and don't allow this ****.

Good Riddance to all those that made hateful or uneducated comments, you're all on my ****list and will never be talked to or seen during my browsing here again, so if you try and post on my trade threads or giveaways, you're not gonna get what you want. Stay the hell away from me.

Sincerely, A seriously pissed-off transgirl

 

[Ashtot]

what the holy mother of god is this thread and why is it not LOCKED?
I browsed all 32 pages of this hateful-minded TERF-teenager garbage and am utterly OUTRAGED at ALL the negative-minded transphobia it produced, the only non-trans person that had their head on straight seemed to be Princess.

I'd love to know why the mods are letting the first 25 or so pages of hate-crime nonsense stay how it is instead of just deleting this entire thread because it really is nothing more than that past page 2 or 3. Several peoples supposed 'education' on trans issues and the TERF-tirade march made me want to do unspeakable things to those that perpetuated this ridiculous BS. I come back from my friggin break from user-drama to THIS? are you ****ing KIDDING ME?

THESE FORUMS ARE NOT SAFE PLACES FOR ALL ITS MEMBERS.

Honestly this thread makes me never want to come back here despite having met some wonderful people, but if transphobiac **** like this is going to be allowed to be posted, I'd be better to browse friggin one of the *chans than read this drivel as at least some of them SUPPORT trans rights and don't allow this ****.

Good Riddance to all those that made hateful or uneducated comments, you're all on my ****list and will never be talked to or seen during my browsing here again, so if you try and post on my trade threads or giveaways, you're not gonna get what you want. Stay the hell away from me.

Sincerely, A seriously pissed-off transgirl

Thanks for helping make the thread better!

 

[visibleghost]

sex = biological sex; male, female, and intersex
gender = roles and stereotypes imposed on people due to their sex

is this not true?

i mean, i'm sure you agree that there would be less racism if we worked harder to eliminate racial segregation. gender roles are essentially sex-based segregation. people don't identify as transracial (except that one person) because (for the most part) we understand that behavioural differences and personalities are not determined by race. i believe this should be applied to biological sex as well, by eliminating gender.

It is true that people are given a gender upon their sex, and that they then have a ton of expectations put on them to behave "like that gender", aka gender roles and stereotypes. gender is not stereotypes tho

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also sara u are right ):

 

[Murray]

After reading through all the pages, it's a shame that this is being closed as there is some actual intelligent discussion. However, respecting your fellow members is a necessity, and unfortunately, there was not much of this going on.