Three games out and a fourth one coming out for both 3DS and Wii U. Besides this series being awesome and quite different from your average fighter game, I'm really curious as to how the newest SSB will turn out.
I'm afraid it will be much like Super Smash Bros Brawl which is rather slow-paced compared to Melee, which in my opinion is the best SSB out there. What's your opinion about this awesome game series?
Mechanically, Melee, as it is one of the most consistent and fluid incarnation of what I call party fighters. Speaking from nostalgia, 64 and Melee contain my childhood. I was already 15 when Brawl hit the scene. The developers actually built Brawl to be a more casual, accessible game, and actively discouraged competition with features like Smash Balls and random tripping; it was a bad, strange decision considering that a simplification wasn't really sought after by fans to my knowledge and made the flow of battle more chaotic and random with less input required from the player (which slows down my control experience) and to me, less enjoyable. I found the Subspace Emissary uninspired as it was little more than an overblown version of Kirby SS's Great Cave Offensive. I definitely prefered the large roster, though. I liked the story itself, but playing was a grind, which is why I was pleased when they announced it was dropped from SSB4. I would prefer something like Adventure mode from Melee but with more to it. I want to say I've read that they're returning to the feel of Melee, but I don't have a source to verify that.
I really loved the original when I was little and I still love it now, but Brawl had some really awesome stages and the story mode was a lot of fun!
I never had Melee but I really wish I did because everyone always says it's their favorite out of the 3 so it really makes me want to play it x(
Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.
When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series.
Though subspace emissary with multiplayer is fun, but solo it's trash.
Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.
When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series.
Though subspace emissary with multiplayer is fun, but solo it's trash.
Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.
When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series.
Though subspace emissary with multiplayer is fun, but solo it's trash.
I like brawl better because I play it with friends, the characters are more diverse than melee, the music is tons better, and there's more options like co-op home run.
Are you actually playing it on a competitive level? I mean sure brawl sucks at competitive play, but that is not the sole purpose of a game. I mean OoT is better for speed running than say, FFX, but that's not really the purpose of the game. It's pretty obvious brawl wasn't designed to be a competitive game in the first place. Yes tripping is a little silly, but it's not game ruining. If I want to play something competitive with friends, I'll break out Starcraft, Dota, Counter Strike, or Street Fighter. Something designed and balanced around being competitive. Not Smash Bros.
I don't see what makes it a black sheep, there's only 3 smash games and it's not even that drastically different. A little slowed down, and some balance changes but it's pretty clearly still the same series.
Yeah, the subspace thing wasn't great but at least there was an easy way to get all the characters. Plus the cutscenes were pretty cool.
You obviously haven't been keeping up with it. The SSBM tier list changes frequently. Marth fell off of the top tier years ago and hasn't regained the constant play he normally sees in tournaments. Ice climbers rose to tier 1 recently. You see as many people playing Fox as Falco currently, and they are still just as used as the rest of tier 1 ( IC, jiggly, shiek .) The top two tiers are fairly balanced.
There's a big difference between having two top tier groups that can compete heavily with each other during tournament play, and the problems we have in brawl. In Brawl you have the BROKEN tier. Characters that are so ****ing overpowered that they are currently banned from tournament play (Metaknight, Snake) depending on your tournament (Diddy, Falco, hell even Olimar lately.)
I mean sure brawl sucks at competitive play, but that is not the sole purpose of a game. I mean OoT is better for speed running than say, FFX, but that's not really the purpose of the game. It's pretty obvious brawl wasn't designed to be a competitive game in the first place.
I hate to break it to you but, unfortunately this is not true. When evo announced it would be hosting a melee tournament and not brawl, Nintendo tried to shut it down. They went so far as to ban any streaming of the tournament or mention of it. However, due to outcry from the players and fans Nintendo released their ban and allowed it to continue. They tried to demand a Brawl tournament as well but the players refused to play it, and Evo said it just didn't have time for it.
If I want to play something competitive with friends, I'll break out Starcraft, Dota, Counter Strike, or Street Fighter. Something designed and balanced around being competitive. Not Smash Bros.
The melee tournament was voted for, heavily by the players. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but player demand makes it a fan favorite every year.
I don't see what makes it a black sheep, there's only 3 smash games and it's not even that drastically different. A little slowed down, and some balance changes but it's pretty clearly still the same series.
In order to make Sonic the fastest character they nerfed every single other characters speed. This destroyed multiple characters instantly, Sheik is just one example. There's a difference between "Balance" and "Broken." They didn't balance Brawl, they broke it.
hate to break it to you but, unfortunately this is not true. When evo announced it would be hosting a melee tournament and not brawl, Nintendo tried to shut it down. They went so far as to ban any streaming of the tournament or mention of it. However, due to outcry from the players and fans Nintendo released their ban and allowed it to continue. They tried to demand a Brawl tournament as well but the players refused to play it, and Evo said it just didn't have time for it.
If you mean competitive play is the only important thing about smash bros, I don't even know what to say to that. There's other parts of the game. If you mean that brawl was designed as a competitive game, I really dont think so. I think tripping was their way of making the game not competitive at all, to distance themselves from the scene, hence why they wanted to stop melee from even happening at Evo. I did not see a single thing saying they tried to force brawl on anything, please link me if you find otherwise. I simply think that Nintendo doesn't really get the whole streaming and internet thing, and that they want to keep the image of smash as a fun casual friendly game instead of a hardcore game like that. You're saying that it was designed to be competitive, but then give reasons as to why the balance and tripping and all the other mechanics are horrible for it. Isn't it possible that maybe those things are terrible because they didn't balance or design the game around competitive play?
In order to make Sonic the fastest character they nerfed every single other characters speed. This destroyed multiple characters instantly, Sheik is just one example. There's a difference between "Balance" and "Broken." They didn't balance Brawl, they broke it.
You have a source for this? I haven't heard that before. Maybe they just wanted a slower paced game? And again, I'm not saying that the tier lists and metagame is balanced or anything. You are missing my point. Again, I am not saying that Brawl is a good competitive game. My point is that brawl is not designed to be a competitive fighting game, and that simple fact does not make it a bad game. It was made to be a fun party game and play with friends.
Whenever my family would come over we'd play it together (there was 4 of us so it fit perfectly). We'd spend hours away playing Melee whilst our parents were probably *****ing about how much of a little **** we all were haha.
We did do the same with Brawl, but as we were older it didn't have the same value as Melee had.
Some local tourneys and evo when it comes around.
Sheik
Best I've done at evo isn't worth mentioning, some guys devote their lives to this. I win matches but I don't end up top 16. Outside of evo I place well though, but those are just small local tournaments. :3
If you mean competitive play is the only important thing about smash bros, I don't even know what to say to that. There's other parts of the game. If you mean that brawl was designed as a competitive game, I really dont think so. I think tripping was their way of making the game not competitive at all, to distance themselves from the scene, hence why they wanted to stop melee from even happening at Evo. I did not see a single thing saying they tried to force brawl on anything, please link me if you find otherwise. I simply think that Nintendo doesn't really get the whole streaming and internet thing, and that they want to keep the image of smash as a fun casual friendly game instead of a hardcore game like that. You're saying that it was designed to be competitive, but then give reasons as to why the balance and tripping and all the other mechanics are horrible for it. Isn't it possible that maybe those things are terrible because they didn't balance or design the game around competitive play?
Yeah, it's dumb but it doesn't ruin me playing the game with my friends.
You have a source for this? I haven't heard that before. Maybe they just wanted a slower paced game? And again, I'm not saying that the tier lists and metagame is balanced or anything. You are missing my point. Again, I am not saying that Brawl is a good competitive game. My point is that brawl is not designed to be a competitive fighting game, and that simple fact does not make it a bad game. It was made to be a fun party game and play with friends.
However just because it's broken does not mean you cannot have fun with it. The game does have competitive implications considering Nintendo WANTS it to be in Evo, and wants it to be a mainstay. They ****ed it up however, and it's just not getting the coverage and popularity they want.
As for your request on Brawl character speeds, here's the speed chart.
Every high tier speed character from melee got a nerf bat. Notice the massive difference in speed for sonic, and he isn't even any good. Characters that relied on chains and speed in Melee became completely broken and terrible (Sheik, Fox, Kirby, etc. ) Melee speed numbers can be found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/516492-supersmashbrosmelee/faqs/16680
Some local tourneys and evo when it comes around.
Sheik
Best I've done at evo isn't worth mentioning, some guys devote their lives to this. I win matches but I don't end up top 16. Outside of evo I place well though, but those are just small local tournaments. :3
Let me just put it this way. The game is broken, inside, and outside of competitive play:
However just because it's broken does not mean you cannot have fun with it. The game does have competitive implications considering Nintendo WANTS it to be in Evo, and wants it to be a mainstay. They ****ed it up however, and it's just not getting the coverage and popularity they want.
As for your request on Brawl character speeds, here's the speed chart.
Every high tier speed character from melee got a nerf bat. Notice the massive difference in speed for sonic, and he isn't even any good. Characters that relied on chains and speed in Melee became completely broken and terrible (Sheik, Fox, Kirby, etc. ) Melee speed numbers can be found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/516492-supersmashbrosmelee/faqs/16680
I have not seen any evidence anywhere of Nintendo waning to make Brawl competitive, or wanting it at events. If you have something that says otherwise, please show me.
And a chart of speeds isn't enough to say that they nerfed everyone's speed just to make sonic faster. Maybe they just wanted a slower game in general.
I like Melee better. Not because its better for competitive play, but because I just had more fun with it. I grew bored of brawl within months of playing, while Melee lasted for years. I even have an older brother to do the Co-op stuff with in brawl and it still didn't hold up against melee.
With melee, setting the amount to lives to 99 was a common thing, with brawl, never done it once. I still like brawl's character roster better though...
I have not seen any evidence anywhere of Nintendo waning to make Brawl competitive, or wanting it at events. If you have something that says otherwise, please show me.
And a chart of speeds isn't enough to say that they nerfed everyone's speed just to make sonic faster. Maybe they just wanted a slower game in general.
How hard is this to understand? Nintendo will never outright state it, you have to use your brain on this one. The Pro players refuse to acknowledge Brawls existence, and NO ONE can blame them. It's a broken train wreck of a game. You cannot just turn off items and go to final destination and have a fair match in it, the mechanics don't let that happen. On top of this the power levels between the characters are so unbalanced that a chunk of the cast has to be banned at events. This provides secondary issues in which counters for particular characters get banned. It's a chain reaction of ****. You can't just not ban these characters either, as Snake and Metaknight are beyond broken. They are gods, their moves have programmed priority over almost every single other move in the game. Metaknight can take you from 0% to dead without giving you a single chance to hit him. There are SERIOUS balance issues with the game that extend past just competitive play.
Melee at the recent evo shattered records. It had the most online viewers of any evo tournament in history. They had an hour long "One more year" chant at the end of the tournament. It raised $100,000.00 for breast cancer research. It was THE MOST POPULAR GAME at the worlds biggest fighting game stage of 2013, beating out the crowds of Street Fighter, MvC, etc. That is HUGE publicity for a game, you have to be borderline ******** to not realize that Nintendo would not want Melee to get this distinction in the current day and age, they are trying to sell Brawl, not melee. When the previous rendition continues to be a mainstay in the largest arena in the world, despite there being a newer version this gives bad PR to the company. It's shameful.
Now to address Speed.
Wanting a slower game, but the result of making it a slower game is severe balance issues to the point of completely breaking characters, was stupid. Period. I'm entertaining your consistent claims here.
Sonic is the only one in brawl who can still classify under melee with tier 1 speed. Everyone else was nerfed and most were broken as a result of the nerfs. Sheik is no longer fast enough to combo as she was intended. She's useless. Fox's speed loss places his kit at the mercy of grapplers. You can beat fox players with just your grab button now. He's helpless.
Considering the massive speed difference between sonic and anyone else it is safe to say that everyone was nerfed because of sonics inclusion to the series. If you want a slower game everyone should be clumped in a general pool of close speeds. What you have in the speed chart is a shotgun effect. Most speeds are within .10-.30 away from the next character on the list, however sonic is a full second faster than second place. He was given obvious priority during development to be the fastest character. Now think about this. If they intended to make him the fastest, you had two options when you were going to include him in the game. 1 Make him faster than everyone currently by a very small margin (since making him too much faster would cause many issues), or 2 slow everyone else down to make him fastest without creating an even faster tier. The answer is obvious from a developmental stand point. Due to the emphasis on making sonic fastest they broke the game. Kits designed around speed, that no longer had the speed to maintain it fell apart.
Look, Brawl is a ****ing mess, it's an embarrassment for Nintendo. Most people still continue to play Melee instead. This is just the reality of the situation. This does NOT mean you aren't allowed to have fun with it. What Brawl has is a more extensive cast, and if you aren't playing competitively and just want to see your favorite franchise character run around and beat someones head in then fine. If you want to use items to unbalance it further fine. I have yet to find anyone who approves of tripping though. Bottom line, Nintendo wants it to be taken seriously by the Pros, so it gets the PR and sales that can go along with it. Thinking that they don't is sheer ignorance.
Melee will probably always be my favorite. I spent the most time playing it, and even though the 64 is still a classic, Melee has more characters, and fighting just flows better with the controls and everything. I don't own brawl but I've played it a lot before at friends house and I like maining as Kirby, but Kirby's really slow in the game and pretty bad in general so I always end up using Falco or Fox.
I find it a bit funny that people take this game so seriously. I mean, when it really comes down to it all the characters have good and bad qualities, and even the 'worst' characters can end up being good if you know how to use them correctly. So, I don't really agree with the tiers at all lol
There's no doubt that fans will pretty much always like Melee better than Brawl because of speed and such. I like to consider it as the more 'raw' game because it seems in Brawl you tend to rely on items much more than in Melee, while in Melee its all a matter of your fighting skill to win and items aren't as prominent of a feature in Melee.
Outside of evo I place well though, but those are just small local tournaments. :3
