What gender are you?

[Zane]

Just say trans people if you're talking about trans men and trans women together

 

[Murray]

Just say trans people if you're talking about trans men and trans women together

but why?

 

[zoetrope]

so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as

trans people?

Yes. Actually 'person who is transsexual' would probably be the best way to say it but it sounds a bit clunky. It follows the 'person first' idea that is used when talking about disabilities. In that case it is used to combat dehumanization (disabled person vs person who is disabled) but when it comes to transgender issues it can help to combat objectification as well. The term 'transsexual' seems to emphasize ''us vs. them' even if it is subconscious.

 

[lunathenia]

so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as

trans people?

Like okay let's say there's a news article that's covering three studies, one done on gay men, lesbian women, and trans. What's the proper terminology for trans then. I mean, it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to say, for example, "62% of gay men polled responded with..." and "25% of lesbian women polled responded with..."

so what's the trans thing to say. "37% of trans polled responded with..." sounds odd.

I have 3 transsexual friends and they refer to themselves as transsexuals and apparently so do their other transsexual friends...

 

[oath2order]

but on that level so could saying "gay man"

 

[lunathenia]

but on that level so could saying "gay man"

exactly esp since gay used to mean happy

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Yes. Actually 'person who is transgendered' would probably be the best way to say it but it sounds a bit clunky. It follows the 'person first' idea that is used when talking about disabilities. In that case it is used to combat dehumanization (disabled person vs person who is disabled) but when it comes to transgender issues it can help to combat objectification as well. The term 'transsexual' seems to emphasize ''us vs. them' even if it is subconscious.

transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/

 

[zoetrope]

but on that level so could saying "gay man"

The difference would be between calling a group of gay men 'gay men' vs something like 'the gays.' And I'm really not trying to play PC police or anything here. I was just making a statement and wasn't trying to say that it was the only correct way to talk about groups of people.

Oh gosh, I feel like a Tumblr user who is foaming at the mouth and full of righteous rage right now.

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transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/

Ack! I lost my train of thought while typing that. But it applies to both words really. I'll edit my post!

 

[lithiumlatte]

'Transsexual' implies surgery, something that many transgender people feel is focused too much on - as if you're less of a man or woman for example, if you haven't had surgery. It's also associated with the slur 'tr**ny' a lot more heavily.

I have 3 transsexual friends and they refer to themselves as transsexuals and apparently so do their other transsexual friends...

It's possible they are trying to reclaim the word, similar to the way some lesbians are trying to reclaim the word 'd*ke' so that it belongs to them again, rather than a slur used by straight people.
That does not mean it is okay for you to do so, if you are a cisgender person.
This is the same reason why 'reverse racism' is not a thing that can physically exist, despite some white people believing otherwise.

 

[lunathenia]

I don't know what tr**ny and d*ke is so i don't understand your explanation. Sorry.

But here's what I mean by transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/

If someone got a sex change (and hormone treatments), he/she is now a she/he and a transsexual.
If a he/she identifies oneself as a she/he, the person is a transgender. (no sex change/hormone treatments)

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That does not mean it is okay for you to do so, if you are a cisgender person.

Why?

If someone got a sex change, by definition, the person is a transsexual....???

 

[radical6]

Transgender isn't a separate gender. So when someone asks for a trans person gender, they do not say "I'm a transgender". They say trans woman, man, etc. Think of it as an adjective like gay. Gay people do not call themselves a gay.

 

[kassie]

Juuuust going to pop in and say I'm female.

*slides away*

 

[lunathenia]

Transgender isn't a separate gender. So when someone asks for a trans person gender, they do not say "I'm a transgender". They say trans woman, man, etc. Think of it as an adjective like gay. Gay people do not call themselves a gay.

I've had a transsexual friend call himself a transsexual (now a woman) but still refers to herself as a transsexual as well as her other transsexual friends. I also have a quite handful of gay men as friends and they call themselves gay...

So according to you, they are wrong or just less sensitive on the matter than others?

 

[zoetrope]

This is the last thing I'll post about this in this thread. I found this in GLAAD's media guide to transgendered issues. Finding this a little earlier would've made my point a bit better!

Problematic: "transgenders," "a transgender"
Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."

The whole thing is here and is very informative and worth a read: http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

Sorry I derailed this thread. I'll take further discussion to the LGBTQA thread.

Edit: I'm sure I broke some of GLAAD's rules in previous posts. Sorry! I didn't do it on purpose!

 

[radical6]

I've had a transsexual friend call himself a transsexual (now a woman) but still refers to herself as a transsexual as well as her other transsexual friends. I also have a quite handful of gay men as friends and they call themselves gay...

So according to you, they are wrong or just less sensitive on the matter than others?

No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird.

Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.

 

[lithiumlatte]

I don't know what tr**ny and d*ke is so i don't understand your explanation. Sorry.
Why?

If someone got a sex change, by definition, the person is a transsexual....???

It's for tranny and ****. I was trying to be polite by censoring them.

Why? Simply because that is not what the majority of transgender people wish to be referred by, and you should simply respect that. It's a problematic term for the reasons stated at the top of my previous post, and by justice & zoetrope.

 

[lunathenia]

No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird.

Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.

Gay people say I am gay and I've never come across someone who had a problem with others saying he/she is gay to someone else as long as they were fine with the other person knowing.

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No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird.

Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.

ok I finally get what you mean now, I thought it was something else.

 

[lithiumlatte]

Gay people say I am gay and I've never come across someone who had a problem with others saying he/she is gay to someone else as long as they were fine with the other person knowing.

I think justice was trying to say that saying eg. 'I am a gay' is what sounds strange - like using it as a noun.

 

[lunathenia]

It's for tranny and ****. I was trying to be polite by censoring them.

Why? Simply because that is not what the majority of transgender people wish to be referred by, and you should simply respect that. It's a problematic term for the reasons stated at the top of my previous post, and by justice & zoetrope.

Ok I've never heard of the words tranny and ****... My apologies for not knowing??

If someone calls himself/herself I'm a transsexual then he/she is admitting to it so I don't see why he/she would be hurt when others say that (in situations where someone literally asks is ____ a transsexual?)

It's like a French woman getting offended in Spain by Spanish people calling her Mary when her name is Marie but introduced herself as Mary in the first place... If you don't want to be called something then don't introduce yourself as one hence don't refer yourself as w/e you don't want people to describe you as.

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I think justice was trying to say that saying eg. 'I am a gay' is what sounds strange - like using it as a noun.

I am a lesbian.
I am a gay.
Only reason people say I am gay instead of a gay and I am a lesbian instead of lesbian is because of flow in verbal speech. But it could be a hidden gender issue inside a sexuality issue.

If saying I am a lesbian is ok but saying I am a gay is NOT ok then it's implying that it's ok to objectify women who are lesbians.

 

[fup10k]

Omg like why can't you just educate me about every little thing I'm too insensitive and ignorant to look up like really I'm trying to help YOU here and be understanding why won't you cater to me you're making me feel bad ;(

 

[Tao]

shemale isnt a gender, its a slur.

So is there a 'proper term'? I thought that was the 'proper term'. Are they just called 'transgender' even though they (usually) have boobs and a penis? Is it just the sexual organ that is taken into account with being transgender and the boobs don't matter?

Also, I want to point out that transgenderism isn't a gender itself, but it's a condition in which someone's biological sex does not match up with their perceived gender. Someone who was born with male genitals but identifies as female would be considered... female. They may call themselves things like transwoman or even shemale or tranny (I don't know, are those terms that are being reclaimed?) but they should still be considered female.

Is it not partially the same thing? Like, genderfluid people are going to not match their biological sex with their perceived gender like 50% of the time, right? (obviously going on a 50/50 ratio there that likely isn't accurate)




Are transexual and transgender the same thing, or is transgender specifically talking about 'perceived gender'? Is transgender the same as 'man who identifies as a woman' but without a sex change?