Video Chat Confirmed for Pok

[Tyeforce]

I have a hard time stepping out of conversations, okay? Just like how I have a hard time separating my topics into paragraphs when I'm typing...which leads to my giant walls of text. I'm not perfect, I'll admit that much. No one is. My need to defend my opinion and call out ignorance sometimes makes me look mean or ignorant myself, but that's not the case. I just don't know when to back out of arguments, and even if I did back out, I would have "lost" the argument in the eyes of the community for doing so, no matter how logical or correct my posts were. So it's a lose-lose situation for me. That's why I hate TBT so much. And I would leave, but it keeps pulling me back in. I just wish people would understand that about me.

this is called shame, or admitting that oneself is wrong, if I'm not mistaken, and it happens to the best of us.

I'm not trying to keep the argument going or anything, but I just want to reply to this one statement. I always admit when I'm wrong. I'll never deny the fact that I've been wrong before. But it's in arguments when I know I'm right that I'm talking about. Or arguments that are opinion based, where neither person is right or wrong, because we're just expressing our opinions. Then in comes down to who has the ignorant opinion, because if neither person's opinion was ignorant, then we wouldn't be arguing in the first place.

 

[Psychonaut]

I have a hard time stepping out of conversations, okay? Just like how I have a hard time separating my topics into paragraphs when I'm typing...which leads to my giant walls of text. I'm not perfect, I'll admit that much. No one is. My need to defend my opinion and call out ignorance sometimes makes me look mean or ignorant myself, but that's not the case. I just don't know when to back out of arguments, and even if I did back out, I would have "lost" the argument in the eyes of the community for doing so, no matter how logical or correct my posts were. So it's a lose-lose situation for me. That's why I hate TBT so much. And I would leave, but it keeps pulling me back in. I just wish people would understand that about me.

this is called shame, or admitting that oneself is wrong, if I'm not mistaken, and it happens to the best of us.

I'm not trying to keep the argument going or anything, but I just want to reply to this one statement. I always admit when I'm wrong. I'll never deny the fact that I've been wrong before. But it's in arguments when I know I'm right that I'm talking about. Or arguments that are opinion based, where neither person is right or wrong, because we're just expressing our opinions. Then in comes down to who has the ignorant opinion, because if neither person's opinion was ignorant, then we wouldn't be arguing in the first place.

neither person being able to call/refer to themselves as ignorant is the problem, especially when both people know what they're talking about.

seems a case of both people being ignorant makes a stalemate. who knew?

also, OH GOD SO HAWT THX 4 SPOILURZ (lawl)

 

[DarthGohan1]

Neat idea? Yeah, for sure. Necessary for a Pokemon game? Not at all.

Why are they doing it? So every 6-14 year old that enjoys playing Pokemon who owns a DS Lite (after owning a DS, but that wasn't good enough so they begged his or her parents for a Lite) will beg his or her parents for a 3DS, all $190 of it... cheap way to sucker parents/preteens with little discretionary income of wasting it on the "upgraded" DS system.

If you still have a DS Lite by the time that Pok

 

[Tyeforce]

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Not true. I still have a DS, and I bought that less than a month after it came out. I'm a college student that works hard for every penny I earn... why would I waste $130 for a Lite, or $150 for a DSi for little or no added value to my entertainment? I understand Nintendo needs to make money, but the "new handheld system every year" scheme is just ridiculous. I had a GB, then got a GBC, then a GBA, and then a DS. Each of those was a huge improvement over the last and had a new library of games. GBC played games in color and weighed a lot less than GB. The jump from GBC to GBA was similar to NES -> SNES. But GBA to GBA Micro? That's when it started to get bad. And no0w every single year there is a new DS. What did Lite have that DS didn't? Absolutely nothing... except another $130 down the drain for parents not wanting to hear their kids whine... or teenagers with no financial responsibility. I will admit, judging from the video at e3 the 3DS did look pretty cool... but is it the same jump in quality Nintendo made from GBA -> DS or SNES -> N64? Not even close... they're just adding a couple unnecessary features and charging you a couple hundred bucks so they can make an extra dime.

Um...you seem to be confused here. You're not understanding the difference between a redesign of a system and a completely new system. The DS Lite, software-wise, was no different than the original DS. It was just a lighter, more compact hardware redesign. I wouldn't blame you for not buying a DS Lite if you already had an original DS, because it functioned the same as the original DS. And the jump to DSi (and DSi XL) wasn't a huge jump software-wise, either, since it still played the same games. Of course, there are some DSi exclusive games, and games with special features that can only be used with the DSi, and if you don't have one, you're completely missing out on DSiWare, but if that's not important to you, and if your original DS or DS Lite is still working fine for you, then, again, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting a DSi. Though, the DSi XL's giant screens are very tempting...but again, if you're not concerned with the hardware, then by all means stick with your DS or DS Lite. The only reason why I got every new model of the DS is because software isn't the only thing important to be. The hardware is very important to me, too. Also, handhelds tend to get roughed up a lot quicker than home consoles, obviously, and it doesn't help any that I'm so clumsy, lol. So by the time a new model is announced (which isn't every year, which you claim), my old model is already scuffed up enough to warrant the purchase of a new one (at least to me). Plus, I get the new hardware, and in the case of the jump from DS Lite to DSi, improved software, too. So that's why I upgrade each time. Of course, not everyone is like me, as I'm sure you're not, so I don't expect you to want to get each new model of DS. But the thing you're not understanding is that the Nintendo 3DS isn't a redesign of the Nintendo DS...it's a completely new system. It's like the jump from Game Boy Advance to Nintendo DS. Not only is the hardware new, but the software is completely new, too, and if you ever plan on playing new handheld Nintendo games, you're not going to be able to play much after Nintendo stops making DS games and only makes 3DS games. In short, this isn't an optional upgrade like the DS redesigns were. This is a required upgrade, that is, if you plan to continue playing games. Nintendo just can't keep making games for old hardware, or else they wouldn't get anywhere. Things have to change sometime. There has to be innovations made. And that's what the Nintendo 3DS is. It's that change, that refresh, that innovation.

Of course it is your choice if you decide to buy every new upgrade. And I would agree that the 3DS is more of an improvement over the DSi than the other upgrades... but even though there are new games, it doesn't really seem that much better. So there's a 3D screen now... and 2 cameras. In my opinion, the cameras are a complete waste... they have absolutely nothing to do with how much I will enjoy playing games on my DS/3DS, and they just add cost to the system. I can see the 3D ending up as a neat feature, but on the other hand it's an expensive addition and quite unnecessary.

As for my "every year there's a new DS to buy" comment:
11/21/2004 - DS released
3/2/2006 - DS Lite released (15 and a half months after DS)
11/1/2008 - DSi released (32 months after DS Lite)
3/28/2010 (16 months after DSi)

So more like every year and a half, with an extra year gap between DSLite & DSi... but still, in a 5 and a half year period, normally one, maybe 2 handheld systems were released... Nintendo released 4 different DS's in that period. (For reference - GB in 1989, GB Pocket in 1996, GB Color in 1998, GBA in 2001, GBA SP in 2003, Micro in 2005).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that from a consumer's point of view, I'd much more appreciate Nintendo spending 3 or 4 years of R&D on the handheld I am going to spend $150/200 on... rather than them spending a year or two on it, then releasing something better a year or two later. I can tell you for sure that I won't be buying 3Ds right when it comes out... because a year later the '3DS Better Version' will be out at the same price... and a year later the '3DS 3rd Version, the best yet' with free game will be out... so Nintendo has turned a loyal customer who would buy a system early and get quite a few games into one who's hesitant to buy a system of theirs now.

First of all, you do realize that there's more to the 3DS than 3D and two three cameras, right? For starters, it has everything the DSi has, so of course it still has the touch screen, two cameras (plus an additional one on the outside for taking 3D photos and capturing 3D video), microphone, and all that.

As for new features, you've already mentioned the 3D display, which isn't something to just toss aside. In addition to that, you've got the slide pad, which brings analog control to the 3DS. On top of that, there's an accelerometer and a gyroscope, meaning that the 3DS can sense motion in real time just like Wii MotionPlus. There's also built-in infra-red communication. And don't forget that the 3DS has the tech to run games that look nearly as good, if not better, than Wii games.

And that's not the end of it! Don't forget that Nintendo has said that the 3DS will feature a completely new online experience, so if you're unsatisfied with the online experience on Wii and DS, then this should be great news for you. Along with online play, Nintendo is also strengthening local multiplayer, by including features such as a built-in Tag Mode, which will allow you to trade data with other people without even knowing it, even if you don't have that game in your system! Oh, and don't forget about the ability to watch 3D movies, too.

If all of that doesn't justify an upgrade from your Nintendo DS, then I don't know what does. And with all the great games that will be available on or around launch (Kid Icarus: Uprising, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Star Fox 64 3D...not to mention all the third party games!), there's bound to be a game or two (or three...four...hell, maybe even ten) that you'll be interested in. And guess what? The only way you'll get to play them is if you get a Nintendo 3DS.

As for the different models of DS, I don't understand why you're complaining, especially if you don't want them. Nintendo's always updated their handheld systems multiple times. It may not have always been as frequent as it is now, but then again, technology is advancing much faster than it was back then. Nintendo had four different models of the Game Boy (original, Pocket, Light, and Color), and four different models of the Game Boy Advance (original, SP, SP 2, and micro). This isn't anything new from Nintendo, the cycle is just happening faster because technology is advancing progressively faster.

On the subject of future 3DS models, if the 3DS follows the same pattern as Nintendo's previous handhelds, then, yes, you can probably expect to see newer 3DS models in the future. But as someone who has stuck with the original Nintendo DS for so long and ignored all of its newer models, why are you being hesitant to buy the first model of the Nintendo 3DS?

You do realize that Nintendo has spend nearly six years of R&D on the Nintendo 3DS, right? Not a year or two, as you seem to believe. Nintendo started research and development on the successor to the Nintendo DS immediately after its release, and the Nintendo 3DS as we know it first came into shape three years ago. Nintendo has certainly given the 3DS the R&D time that it needs. Yes, there will probably be better versions of it in the future, but why wait and cut yourself off from playing any new handheld games until then? Besides, I thought you didn't care for the newer models of handheld systems? I'm sure you'll find that your first 3DS will be just fine for you, even after they release a newer model.

 

[DarthGohan1]

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Um...you seem to be confused here. You're not understanding the difference between a redesign of a system and a completely new system. The DS Lite, software-wise, was no different than the original DS. It was just a lighter, more compact hardware redesign. I wouldn't blame you for not buying a DS Lite if you already had an original DS, because it functioned the same as the original DS. And the jump to DSi (and DSi XL) wasn't a huge jump software-wise, either, since it still played the same games. Of course, there are some DSi exclusive games, and games with special features that can only be used with the DSi, and if you don't have one, you're completely missing out on DSiWare, but if that's not important to you, and if your original DS or DS Lite is still working fine for you, then, again, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting a DSi. Though, the DSi XL's giant screens are very tempting...but again, if you're not concerned with the hardware, then by all means stick with your DS or DS Lite. The only reason why I got every new model of the DS is because software isn't the only thing important to be. The hardware is very important to me, too. Also, handhelds tend to get roughed up a lot quicker than home consoles, obviously, and it doesn't help any that I'm so clumsy, lol. So by the time a new model is announced (which isn't every year, which you claim), my old model is already scuffed up enough to warrant the purchase of a new one (at least to me). Plus, I get the new hardware, and in the case of the jump from DS Lite to DSi, improved software, too. So that's why I upgrade each time. Of course, not everyone is like me, as I'm sure you're not, so I don't expect you to want to get each new model of DS. But the thing you're not understanding is that the Nintendo 3DS isn't a redesign of the Nintendo DS...it's a completely new system. It's like the jump from Game Boy Advance to Nintendo DS. Not only is the hardware new, but the software is completely new, too, and if you ever plan on playing new handheld Nintendo games, you're not going to be able to play much after Nintendo stops making DS games and only makes 3DS games. In short, this isn't an optional upgrade like the DS redesigns were. This is a required upgrade, that is, if you plan to continue playing games. Nintendo just can't keep making games for old hardware, or else they wouldn't get anywhere. Things have to change sometime. There has to be innovations made. And that's what the Nintendo 3DS is. It's that change, that refresh, that innovation.

Of course it is your choice if you decide to buy every new upgrade. And I would agree that the 3DS is more of an improvement over the DSi than the other upgrades... but even though there are new games, it doesn't really seem that much better. So there's a 3D screen now... and 2 cameras. In my opinion, the cameras are a complete waste... they have absolutely nothing to do with how much I will enjoy playing games on my DS/3DS, and they just add cost to the system. I can see the 3D ending up as a neat feature, but on the other hand it's an expensive addition and quite unnecessary.

As for my "every year there's a new DS to buy" comment:
11/21/2004 - DS released
3/2/2006 - DS Lite released (15 and a half months after DS)
11/1/2008 - DSi released (32 months after DS Lite)
3/28/2010 (16 months after DSi)

So more like every year and a half, with an extra year gap between DSLite & DSi... but still, in a 5 and a half year period, normally one, maybe 2 handheld systems were released... Nintendo released 4 different DS's in that period. (For reference - GB in 1989, GB Pocket in 1996, GB Color in 1998, GBA in 2001, GBA SP in 2003, Micro in 2005).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that from a consumer's point of view, I'd much more appreciate Nintendo spending 3 or 4 years of R&D on the handheld I am going to spend $150/200 on... rather than them spending a year or two on it, then releasing something better a year or two later. I can tell you for sure that I won't be buying 3Ds right when it comes out... because a year later the '3DS Better Version' will be out at the same price... and a year later the '3DS 3rd Version, the best yet' with free game will be out... so Nintendo has turned a loyal customer who would buy a system early and get quite a few games into one who's hesitant to buy a system of theirs now.

First of all, you do realize that there's more to the 3DS than 3D and two three cameras, right? For starters, it has everything the DSi has, so of course it still has the touch screen, two cameras (plus an additional one on the outside for taking 3D photos and capturing 3D video), microphone, and all that.

As for new features, you've already mentioned the 3D display, which isn't something to just toss aside. In addition to that, you've got the slide pad, which brings analog control to the 3DS. On top of that, there's an accelerometer and a gyroscope, meaning that the 3DS can sense motion in real time just like Wii MotionPlus. There's also built-in infra-red communication. And don't forget that the 3DS has the tech to run games that look nearly as good, if not better, than Wii games.

And that's not the end of it! Don't forget that Nintendo has said that the 3DS will feature a completely new online experience, so if you're unsatisfied with the online experience on Wii and DS, then this should be great news for you. Along with online play, Nintendo is also strengthening local multiplayer, by including features such as a built-in Tag Mode, which will allow you to trade data with other people without even knowing it, even if you don't have that game in your system! Oh, and don't forget about the ability to watch 3D movies, too.

If all of that doesn't justify an upgrade from your Nintendo DS, then I don't know what does. And with all the great games that will be available on or around launch (Kid Icarus: Uprising, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Star Fox 64 3D...not to mention all the third party games!), there's bound to be a game or two (or three...four...hell, maybe even ten) that you'll be interested in. And guess what? The only way you'll get to play them is if you get a Nintendo 3DS.

As for the different models of DS, I don't understand why you're complaining, especially if you don't want them. Nintendo's always updated their handheld systems multiple times. It may not have always been as frequent as it is now, but then again, technology is advancing much faster than it was back then. Nintendo had four different models of the Game Boy (original, Pocket, Light, and Color), and four different models of the Game Boy Advance (original, SP, SP 2, and micro). This isn't anything new from Nintendo, the cycle is just happening faster because technology is advancing progressively faster.

On the subject of future 3DS models, if the 3DS follows the same pattern as Nintendo's previous handhelds, then, yes, you can probably expect to see newer 3DS models in the future. But as someone who has stuck with the original Nintendo DS for so long and ignored all of its newer models, why are you being hesitant to buy the first model of the Nintendo 3DS?

You do realize that Nintendo has spend nearly six years of R&D on the Nintendo 3DS, right? Not a year or two, as you seem to believe. Nintendo started research and development on the successor to the Nintendo DS immediately after its release, and the Nintendo 3DS as we know it first came into shape three years ago. Nintendo has certainly given the 3DS the R&D time that it needs. Yes, there will probably be better versions of it in the future, but why wait and cut yourself off from playing any new handheld games until then? Besides, I thought you didn't care for the newer models of handheld systems? I'm sure you'll find that your first 3DS will be just fine for you, even after they release a newer model.

You make a lot of good points. In the end, though, it comes down to one point... the reason why I don't play Wii that much, rarely play DS, and I guess it's not just Nintendo's problem, but the industry in general... and your reasoning is a perfect example. Video game creators have lost focus on creating good video games. One of the hyped up titles for the 3DS serves as a great model of this, Animal Crossing.

Since this is an AC-themed forum, mostly everyone here would agree that AC for Gamecube was an amazing game. It was unique, did what no previous game had ever done, and was fun for hours on end. ACWW came along 3 years later. At first, it too was quite enjoyable... online play, new items, a couple other new features... but anyone who says this wasn't just a recycled version of the original is crazy... which would explain why everyone stopped playing it so soon. And then another 3 years later, we got ACCF. Again, a recycled game with a couple new features (WiiSpeak! Go to the city!) and Nintendo has another staple best-seller for the Wii. AC for 3DS has a new twist... you're the mayor of the town. So one of two things will happen - it will actually be a new, fresh game, or a recycled version of the first 3 AC games with a new gimmicky feature.

Which is what I wonder with almost every new Wii/DS game before I buy one... and it's sad to say that the majority of the time it's just some game with a couple gimmicky add-ons to a previous game.

 

[ANDREW RYAN]

Exact face I made looking at the Berlin Wall of text in this thread.

 

[Psychonaut]

just pointing out... tye, your fourth paragraph sounds like the main sales pitch nintendo will use.

I'm very excited about star fox 64 3d. first person is gonna be so nauseous.

I feel like the DSi is a bit half-baked, without any real support for what the system is offering on paper. I don't have one and haven't been keeping up to speed on games for it, but I would easily assume that the camera isn't being implemented in-game, which is what we all love nintendo for, other than their innovation in gaming.. which counts as in-game, in my opinion. (meaning loving nintendo for games and innovation in gaming... said that awfully.)

I like the idea of the 3d camera, much more than the idea of having video chat for any game. it's nice, since nothing else can do this, as of now. (to my knowledge, and/or without a lot of extra home-made/expensive parts/software)

I still don't care much for the idea of 3d in gaming, but hopefully playing it will make me enjoy it and see how much value it has (if it has or doesn't have any)

I like the idea of nintendo having achievements in their games like the rest of the gaming world, and if you've ever played a game with achievements to unlock, you would know that it's very sublime, and you hardly notice it, unless you are specifically trying to get an achievement. it doesn't take away from the experience, and is a nice addition to the gaming aspect of the 3ds.

the slide pad is a godsend, if it isn't crappily produced (nintendo products are hardly ever crappily produced, I'm not expecting anything but the best)


so hows that video chat on pokemon going, again?

edit:

Exact face I made looking at the Berlin Wall of text in this thread.

you have no idea how much I'm liking you joining this site, right now.

 

[Tyeforce]

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepcompletely new system. The DS Lite, software-wise, was no different than the original DS. It was just a lighter, more compact hardware redesign. I wouldn't blame you for not buying a DS Lite if you already had an original DS, because it functioned the same as the original DS. And the jump to DSi (and DSi XL) wasn't a huge jump software-wise, either, since it still played the same games. Of course, there are some DSi exclusive games, and games with special features that can only be used with the DSi, and if you don't have one, you're completely missing out on DSiWare, but if that's not important to you, and if your original DS or DS Lite is still working fine for you, then, again, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting a DSi. Though, the DSi XL's giant screens are very tempting...but again, if you're not concerned with the hardware, then by all means stick with your DS or DS Lite. The only reason why I got every new model of the DS is because software isn't the only thing important to be. The hardware is very important to me, too. Also, handhelds tend to get roughed up a lot quicker than home consoles, obviously, and it doesn't help any that I'm so clumsy, lol. So by the time a new model is announced (which isn't every year, which you claim), my old model is already scuffed up enough to warrant the purchase of a new one (at least to me). Plus, I get the new hardware, and in the case of the jump from DS Lite to DSi, improved software, too. So that's why I upgrade each time. Of course, not everyone is like me, as I'm sure you're not, so I don't expect you to want to get each new model of DS. But the thing you're not understanding is that the Nintendo 3DS isn't a redesign of the Nintendo DS...it's a completely new system. It's like the jump from Game Boy Advance to Nintendo DS. Not only is the hardware new, but the software is completely new, too, and if you ever plan on playing new handheld Nintendo games, you're not going to be able to play much after Nintendo stops making DS games and only makes 3DS games. In short, this isn't an optional upgrade like the DS redesigns were. This is a required upgrade, that is, if you plan to continue playing games. Nintendo just can't keep making games for old hardware, or else they wouldn't get anywhere. Things have to change sometime. There has to be innovations made. And that's what the Nintendo 3DS is. It's that change, that refresh, that innovation.

Of course it is your choice if you decide to buy every new upgrade. And I would agree that the 3DS is more of an improvement over the DSi than the other upgrades... but even though there are new games, it doesn't really seem that much better. So there's a 3D screen now... and 2 cameras. In my opinion, the cameras are a complete waste... they have absolutely nothing to do with how much I will enjoy playing games on my DS/3DS, and they just add cost to the system. I can see the 3D ending up as a neat feature, but on the other hand it's an expensive addition and quite unnecessary.

As for my "every year there's a new DS to buy" comment:
11/21/2004 - DS released
3/2/2006 - DS Lite released (15 and a half months after DS)
11/1/2008 - DSi released (32 months after DS Lite)
3/28/2010 (16 months after DSi)

So more like every year and a half, with an extra year gap between DSLite & DSi... but still, in a 5 and a half year period, normally one, maybe 2 handheld systems were released... Nintendo released 4 different DS's in that period. (For reference - GB in 1989, GB Pocket in 1996, GB Color in 1998, GBA in 2001, GBA SP in 2003, Micro in 2005).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that from a consumer's point of view, I'd much more appreciate Nintendo spending 3 or 4 years of R&D on the handheld I am going to spend $150/200 on... rather than them spending a year or two on it, then releasing something better a year or two later. I can tell you for sure that I won't be buying 3Ds right when it comes out... because a year later the '3DS Better Version' will be out at the same price... and a year later the '3DS 3rd Version, the best yet' with free game will be out... so Nintendo has turned a loyal customer who would buy a system early and get quite a few games into one who's hesitant to buy a system of theirs now.

First of all, you do realize that there's more to the 3DS than 3D and two three cameras, right? For starters, it has everything the DSi has, so of course it still has the touch screen, two cameras (plus an additional one on the outside for taking 3D photos and capturing 3D video), microphone, and all that.

As for new features, you've already mentioned the 3D display, which isn't something to just toss aside. In addition to that, you've got the slide pad, which brings analog control to the 3DS. On top of that, there's an accelerometer and a gyroscope, meaning that the 3DS can sense motion in real time just like Wii MotionPlus. There's also built-in infra-red communication. And don't forget that the 3DS has the tech to run games that look nearly as good, if not better, than Wii games.

And that's not the end of it! Don't forget that Nintendo has said that the 3DS will feature a completely new online experience, so if you're unsatisfied with the online experience on Wii and DS, then this should be great news for you. Along with online play, Nintendo is also strengthening local multiplayer, by including features such as a built-in Tag Mode, which will allow you to trade data with other people without even knowing it, even if you don't have that game in your system! Oh, and don't forget about the ability to watch 3D movies, too.

If all of that doesn't justify an upgrade from your Nintendo DS, then I don't know what does. And with all the great games that will be available on or around launch (Kid Icarus: Uprising, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Star Fox 64 3D...not to mention all the third party games!), there's bound to be a game or two (or three...four...hell, maybe even ten) that you'll be interested in. And guess what? The only way you'll get to play them is if you get a Nintendo 3DS.

As for the different models of DS, I don't understand why you're complaining, especially if you don't want them. Nintendo's always updated their handheld systems multiple times. It may not have always been as frequent as it is now, but then again, technology is advancing much faster than it was back then. Nintendo had four different models of the Game Boy (original, Pocket, Light, and Color), and four different models of the Game Boy Advance (original, SP, SP 2, and micro). This isn't anything new from Nintendo, the cycle is just happening faster because technology is advancing progressively faster.

On the subject of future 3DS models, if the 3DS follows the same pattern as Nintendo's previous handhelds, then, yes, you can probably expect to see newer 3DS models in the future. But as someone who has stuck with the original Nintendo DS for so long and ignored all of its newer models, why are you being hesitant to buy the first model of the Nintendo 3DS?

You do realize that Nintendo has spend nearly six years of R&D on the Nintendo 3DS, right? Not a year or two, as you seem to believe. Nintendo started research and development on the successor to the Nintendo DS immediately after its release, and the Nintendo 3DS as we know it first came into shape three years ago. Nintendo has certainly given the 3DS the R&D time that it needs. Yes, there will probably be better versions of it in the future, but why wait and cut yourself off from playing any new handheld games until then? Besides, I thought you didn't care for the newer models of handheld systems? I'm sure you'll find that your first 3DS will be just fine for you, even after they release a newer model.

You make a lot of good points. In the end, though, it comes down to one point... the reason why I don't play Wii that much, rarely play DS, and I guess it's not just Nintendo's problem, but the industry in general... and your reasoning is a perfect example. Video game creators have lost focus on creating good video games. One of the hyped up titles for the 3DS serves as a great model of this, Animal Crossing.

Since this is an AC-themed forum, mostly everyone here would agree that AC for Gamecube was an amazing game. It was unique, did what no previous game had ever done, and was fun for hours on end. ACWW came along 3 years later. At first, it too was quite enjoyable... online play, new items, a couple other new features... but anyone who says this wasn't just a recycled version of the original is crazy... which would explain why everyone stopped playing it so soon. And then another 3 years later, we got ACCF. Again, a recycled game with a couple new features (WiiSpeak! Go to the city!) and Nintendo has another staple best-seller for the Wii. AC for 3DS has a new twist... you're the mayor of the town. So one of two things will happen - it will actually be a new, fresh game, or a recycled version of the first 3 AC games with a new gimmicky feature.

Which is what I wonder with almost every new Wii/DS game before I buy one... and it's sad to say that the majority of the time it's just some game with a couple gimmicky add-ons to a previous game.

See, it's attitudes like that that I just don't understand. It seems that people like you can't enjoy new installments in a franchise unless each new game completely reinvents the franchise. Well...that's not a franchise. One of the things that makes Nintendo's franchises so great is that it's all familiar to you, though presented differently each time. There's no doubt that every Mario and Zelda game are similar to each other, but at the same time there are many new elements and gameplay mechanics that differentiate them. Yes, City Folk may have reused a lot from Wild World, but at the same time it added new features. Maybe it didn't add enough new content in your eyes, but it certainly did in mine. And while it may not be as different from its predecessor as some other titles are, what's wrong with more of the same every once and awhile? Since when is more of a good thing bad? I loved Wild World, and since City Folk is basically Wild World plus more content, I loved it even more. But, alas, not everything thinks the way I do.

 

[Tyeforce]

I feel like the DSi is a bit half-baked, without any real support for what the system is offering on paper. I don't have one and haven't been keeping up to speed on games for it, but I would easily assume that the camera isn't being implemented in-game, which is what we all love nintendo for, other than their innovation in gaming.. which counts as in-game, in my opinion. (meaning loving nintendo for games and innovation in gaming... said that awfully.)

Oh, there are plenty of games that utilize the DSi's camera in-game, both retail games and DSiWare titles. And while there aren't very many DSi-exclusive retail games, there certainly are a lot of regular DS games with special DSi features. Trust me, I deal with video games every day at work. The thing is...all of the current retail DS games that make use of the DSi's cameras, to my knowledge, are third party games, and most of the games that use the cameras are what most gamers would consider "shovelware". That doesn't mean that it's all shovelware, though.

Anyway, again, to my knowledge, Nintendo hasn't made a retail DS game that has bonus features for the DSi of their own yet, and I know for a fact that they haven't made a DSi-exlcusive retail game. That would make Pok

 

[Jas0n]

I'm honestly starting to believe Tye is employed by Nintendo. He's starting to sound like one of those *censored.3.0*ing annoying people on customer support lines that pretend their company is perfect and could never do anything wrong just to try and sell you stuff, and all you want to do is strangle them.

And if you're not employed by Nintendo, Tye, go get a job now. They'd love you. Either way, I can say I won't be buying this new pokemon game, or even a 3DS for that matter, so none of your opinions on how perfect they both are bother me in the slightest.

 

[Dimitri Petrenko]

I'm honestly starting to believe Tye is employed by Nintendo. He's starting to sound like one of those *censored.3.0*ing annoying people on customer support lines that pretend their company is perfect and could never do anything wrong just to try and sell you stuff, and all you want to do is strangle them.

And if you're not employed by Nintendo, Tye, go get a job now. They'd love you. Either way, I can say I won't be buying this new pokemon game, or even a 3DS for that matter, so none of your opinions on how perfect they both are bother me in the slightest.

After about a day they would get annoyed...

 

[Rockman!]

Wow. Just wow.

I love it when you guys start arguments that include 9,000 quotes.

 

[-Aaron]

I'm honestly starting to believe Tye is employed by Nintendo. He's starting to sound like one of those *censored.3.0*ing annoying people on customer support lines that pretend their company is perfect and could never do anything wrong just to try and sell you stuff, and all you want to do is strangle them.

And if you're not employed by Nintendo, Tye, go get a job now. They'd love you. Either way, I can say I won't be buying this new pokemon game, or even a 3DS for that matter, so none of your opinions on how perfect they both are bother me in the slightest.

He has one, at Toys R' Us, in the video game section.
He's probably been Employee of the Month or something.
I have a vague idea on what Tye does at work.

Customer 1: Hi there, I'm looking for a DS for my child's birthday..
Tye: WELL, YOU SHOULD TRY..........
*15 minutes later*
Customer 1: Okay, I guess I'll take this DSi XL.
Customer 2: Hey, buddy, can you suggest a good game for my child's XBOX 360?
Tye: Well I th- HEY JIM, GET OVER HERE.

 

[DarthGohan1]

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepcompletely new system. The DS Lite, software-wise, was no different than the original DS. It was just a lighter, more compact hardware redesign. I wouldn't blame you for not buying a DS Lite if you already had an original DS, because it functioned the same as the original DS. And the jump to DSi (and DSi XL) wasn't a huge jump software-wise, either, since it still played the same games. Of course, there are some DSi exclusive games, and games with special features that can only be used with the DSi, and if you don't have one, you're completely missing out on DSiWare, but if that's not important to you, and if your original DS or DS Lite is still working fine for you, then, again, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting a DSi. Though, the DSi XL's giant screens are very tempting...but again, if you're not concerned with the hardware, then by all means stick with your DS or DS Lite. The only reason why I got every new model of the DS is because software isn't the only thing important to be. The hardware is very important to me, too. Also, handhelds tend to get roughed up a lot quicker than home consoles, obviously, and it doesn't help any that I'm so clumsy, lol. So by the time a new model is announced (which isn't every year, which you claim), my old model is already scuffed up enough to warrant the purchase of a new one (at least to me). Plus, I get the new hardware, and in the case of the jump from DS Lite to DSi, improved software, too. So that's why I upgrade each time. Of course, not everyone is like me, as I'm sure you're not, so I don't expect you to want to get each new model of DS. But the thing you're not understanding is that the Nintendo 3DS isn't a redesign of the Nintendo DS...it's a completely new system. It's like the jump from Game Boy Advance to Nintendo DS. Not only is the hardware new, but the software is completely new, too, and if you ever plan on playing new handheld Nintendo games, you're not going to be able to play much after Nintendo stops making DS games and only makes 3DS games. In short, this isn't an optional upgrade like the DS redesigns were. This is a requiredI guess what I'm trying to say is, that from a consumer's point of view, I'd much more appreciate Nintendo spending 3 or 4 years of R&D on the handheld I am going to spend $150/200 on... rather than them spending a year or two on it, then releasing something better a year or two later. I can tell you for sure that I won't be buying 3Ds right when it comes out... because a year later the '3DS Better Version' will be out at the same price... and a year later the '3DS 3rd Version, the best yet' with free game will be out... so Nintendo has turned a loyal customer who would buy a system early and get quite a few games into one who's hesitant to buy a system of theirs now.

First of all, you do realize that there's more to the 3DS than 3D and two three cameras, right? For starters, it has everything the DSi has, so of course it still has the touch screen, two cameras (plus an additional one on the outside for taking 3D photos and capturing 3D video), microphone, and all that.

As for new features, you've already mentioned the 3D display, which isn't something to just toss aside. In addition to that, you've got the slide pad, which brings analog control to the 3DS. On top of that, there's an accelerometer and a gyroscope, meaning that the 3DS can sense motion in real time just like Wii MotionPlus. There's also built-in infra-red communication. And don't forget that the 3DS has the tech to run games that look nearly as good, if not better, than Wii games.

And that's not the end of it! Don't forget that Nintendo has said that the 3DS will feature a completely new online experience, so if you're unsatisfied with the online experience on Wii and DS, then this should be great news for you. Along with online play, Nintendo is also strengthening local multiplayer, by including features such as a built-in Tag Mode, which will allow you to trade data with other people without even knowing it, even if you don't have that game in your system! Oh, and don't forget about the ability to watch 3D movies, too.

If all of that doesn't justify an upgrade from your Nintendo DS, then I don't know what does. And with all the great games that will be available on or around launch (Kid Icarus: Uprising, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Star Fox 64 3D...not to mention all the third party games!), there's bound to be a game or two (or three...four...hell, maybe even ten) that you'll be interested in. And guess what? The only way you'll get to play them is if you get a Nintendo 3DS.

As for the different models of DS, I don't understand why you're complaining, especially if you don't want them. Nintendo's always updated their handheld systems multiple times. It may not have always been as frequent as it is now, but then again, technology is advancing much faster than it was back then. Nintendo had four different models of the Game Boy (original, Pocket, Light, and Color), and four different models of the Game Boy Advance (original, SP, SP 2, and micro). This isn't anything new from Nintendo, the cycle is just happening faster because technology is advancing progressively faster.

On the subject of future 3DS models, if the 3DS follows the same pattern as Nintendo's previous handhelds, then, yes, you can probably expect to see newer 3DS models in the future. But as someone who has stuck with the original Nintendo DS for so long and ignored all of its newer models, why are you being hesitant to buy the first model of the Nintendo 3DS?

You do realize that Nintendo has spend nearly six years of R&D on the Nintendo 3DS, right? Not a year or two, as you seem to believe. Nintendo started research and development on the successor to the Nintendo DS immediately after its release, and the Nintendo 3DS as we know it first came into shape three years ago. Nintendo has certainly given the 3DS the R&D time that it needs. Yes, there will probably be better versions of it in the future, but why wait and cut yourself off from playing any new handheld games until then? Besides, I thought you didn't care for the newer models of handheld systems? I'm sure you'll find that your first 3DS will be just fine for you, even after they release a newer model.

You make a lot of good points. In the end, though, it comes down to one point... the reason why I don't play Wii that much, rarely play DS, and I guess it's not just Nintendo's problem, but the industry in general... and your reasoning is a perfect example. Video game creators have lost focus on creating good video games. One of the hyped up titles for the 3DS serves as a great model of this, Animal Crossing.

Since this is an AC-themed forum, mostly everyone here would agree that AC for Gamecube was an amazing game. It was unique, did what no previous game had ever done, and was fun for hours on end. ACWW came along 3 years later. At first, it too was quite enjoyable... online play, new items, a couple other new features... but anyone who says this wasn't just a recycled version of the original is crazy... which would explain why everyone stopped playing it so soon. And then another 3 years later, we got ACCF. Again, a recycled game with a couple new features (WiiSpeak! Go to the city!) and Nintendo has another staple best-seller for the Wii. AC for 3DS has a new twist... you're the mayor of the town. So one of two things will happen - it will actually be a new, fresh game, or a recycled version of the first 3 AC games with a new gimmicky feature.

Which is what I wonder with almost every new Wii/DS game before I buy one... and it's sad to say that the majority of the time it's just some game with a couple gimmicky add-ons to a previous game.

See, it's attitudes like that that I just don't understand. It seems that people like you can't enjoy new installments in a franchise unless each new game completely reinvents the franchise. Well...that's not a franchise. One of the things that makes Nintendo's franchises so great is that it's all familiar to you, though presented differently each time. There's no doubt that every Mario and Zelda game are similar to each other, but at the same time there are many new elements and gameplay mechanics that differentiate them. Yes, City Folk may have reused a lot from Wild World, but at the same time it added new features. Maybe it didn't add enough new content in your eyes, but it certainly did in mine. And while it may not be as different from its predecessor as some other titles are, what's wrong with more of the same every once and awhile? Since when is more of a good thing bad? I loved Wild World, and since City Folk is basically Wild World plus more content, I loved it even more. But, alas, not everything thinks the way I do.

I think it started to change when I started working and earning money. So instead of using gift cards from my birthday I was using money that I was earning at 8 bucks an hour. And then I realized that for 50 bucks, I could get a lot more entertainment than a recycled video game.

I think it'd be appropriate to compare a game franchise to a sports franchise. Fans of a team want and expect a good team each season. A lot of the time this means bringing back the core of the team - veterans, superstars, etc. but still adding new young players and maybe a couple other new guys. But after a team has a couple bad years in a row, or the good players are getting too old, things need to change. Make some big trades, sign a bunch of free agents, develop a new draft strategy, etc.

The exact same concept applies to games. Nintendo's done a pretty good job w/ the Mario series. There's the main line of games that everyone loves - the SMB games, then the SMW games, then SM64 and Sunshine, and now Galaxy... all solid games. But every now and then Nintendo realizes they need to mix it up. By this, I don't mean Mario Tennis (as awesome as that game was) - that's just sticking the Mario name on a game and having Mario-world characters. But Paper Mario was a great example of Nintendo realizing they needed to mix things up and it worked great. One of my favorite N64 games - and that's saying quite a bit. PMTTYD was a good game, overall, too. But it was the same thing as the original PM... so as much fun as it was, I couldn't stick with it all the way through to beat the game. Then came Super Paper Mario... PM in 2D and 3D! By this point Nintendo was beating a dead horse... just let the side-franchise end on a high note, instead of watering it down every 3 years. And what do you know... PM 3DS has been announced.

My point is this - Nintendo has done a good job of putting quality games out there in the past. But they've become so focused on making an extra buck that they're pushing new Mario, LoZ, Metroid, etc. games out so fast and just adding a couple new features instead of doing what they used to do best - fun gameplay that would have us hooked for hours and hours. To Nintendo, it is more important that a game has motion controls so they can market it and put something that sounds cool on the back of the box rather than really pushing the limit on the quality of their games.

 

[Tyeforce]

I'm honestly starting to believe Tye is employed by Nintendo. He's starting to sound like one of those *censored.3.0*ing annoying people on customer support lines that pretend their company is perfect and could never do anything wrong just to try and sell you stuff, and all you want to do is strangle them.

And if you're not employed by Nintendo, Tye, go get a job now. They'd love you. Either way, I can say I won't be buying this new pokemon game, or even a 3DS for that matter, so none of your opinions on how perfect they both are bother me in the slightest.

He has one, at Toys R' Us, in the video game section.
He's probably been Employee of the Month or something.
I have a vague idea on what Tye does at work.

Customer 1: Hi there, I'm looking for a DS for my child's birthday..
Tye: WELL, YOU SHOULD TRY..........
*15 minutes later*
Customer 1: Okay, I guess I'll take this DSi XL.
Customer 2: Hey, buddy, can you suggest a good game for my child's XBOX 360?
Tye: Well I th- HEY JIM, GET OVER HERE.

I'm very unbiased at my job, thank you very much. I've recommended Microsoft and Sony games and consoles, too. If a guest asks me what game or console they should get, I ask them who it's for, how old they are, what genre they prefer, etc., and make an unbiased recommendation based on what they tell me. There have been many times when I've recommended a PSP as opposed to a DS, or an Xbox 360 or PS3 as opposed to a Wii. But one thing's certain; I love helping people at my job, especially when they're asking about Nintendo games or consoles. Not because I prefer Nintendo myself, but because I know so much about Nintendo, so I can help my guests like an expert. I just love to help people.

 

[Tyeforce]

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepcompletely new system. The DS Lite, software-wise, was no different than the original DS. It was just a lighter, more compact hardware redesign. I wouldn't blame you for not buying a DS Lite if you already had an original DS, because it functioned the same as the original DS. And the jump to DSi (and DSi XL) wasn't a huge jump software-wise, either, since it still played the same games. Of course, there are some DSi exclusive games, and games with special features that can only be used with the DSi, and if you don't have one, you're completely missing out on DSiWare, but if that's not important to you, and if your original DS or DS Lite is still working fine for you, then, again, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting a DSi. Though, the DSi XL's giant screens are very tempting...but again, if you're not concerned with the hardware, then by all means stick with your DS or DS Lite. The only reason why I got every new model of the DS is because software isn't the only thing important to be. The hardware is very important to me, too. Also, handhelds tend to get roughed up a lot quicker than home consoles, obviously, and it doesn't help any that I'm so clumsy, lol. So by the time a new model is announced (which isn't every year, which you claim), my old model is already scuffed up enough to warrant the purchase of a new one (at least to me). Plus, I get the new hardware, and in the case of the jump from DS Lite to DSi, improved software, too. So that's why I upgrade each time. Of course, not everyone is like me, as I'm sure you're not, so I don't expect you to want to get each new model of DS. But the thing you're not understanding is that the Nintendo 3DS isn't a redesign of the Nintendo DS...it's a completely new system. It's like the jump from Game Boy Advance to Nintendo DS. Not only is the hardware new, but the software is completely new, too, and if you ever plan on playing new handheld Nintendo games, you're not going to be able to play much after Nintendo stops making DS games and only makes 3DS games. In short, this isn't an optional upgrade like the DS redesigns were. This is a requiredI guess what I'm trying to say is, that from a consumer's point of view, I'd much more appreciate Nintendo spending 3 or 4 years of R&D on the handheld I am going to spend $150/200 on... rather than them spending a year or two on it, then releasing something better a year or two later. I can tell you for sure that I won't be buying 3Ds right when it comes out... because a year later the '3DS Better Version' will be out at the same price... and a year later the '3DS 3rd Version, the best yet' with free game will be out... so Nintendo has turned a loyal customer who would buy a system early and get quite a few games into one who's hesitant to buy a system of theirs now.two three cameras, right? For starters, it has everything the DSi has, so of course it still has the touch screen, two cameras (plus an additional one on the outside for taking 3D photos and capturing 3D video), microphone, and all that.

As for new features, you've already mentioned the 3D display, which isn't something to just toss aside. In addition to that, you've got the slide pad, which brings analog control to the 3DS. On top of that, there's an accelerometer and a gyroscope, meaning that the 3DS can sense motion in real time just like Wii MotionPlus. There's also built-in infra-red communication. And don't forget that the 3DS has the tech to run games that look nearly as good, if not better, than Wii games.

And that's not the end of it! Don't forget that Nintendo has said that the 3DS will feature a completely new online experience, so if you're unsatisfied with the online experience on Wii and DS, then this should be great news for you. Along with online play, Nintendo is also strengthening local multiplayer, by including features such as a built-in Tag Mode, which will allow you to trade data with other people without even knowing it, even if you don't have that game in your system! Oh, and don't forget about the ability to watch 3D movies, too.

If all of that doesn't justify an upgrade from your Nintendo DS, then I don't know what does. And with all the great games that will be available on or around launch (Kid Icarus: Uprising, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Star Fox 64 3D...not to mention all the third party games!), there's bound to be a game or two (or three...four...hell, maybe even ten) that you'll be interested in. And guess what? The only way you'll get to play them is if you get a Nintendo 3DS.

As for the different models of DS, I don't understand why you're complaining, especially if you don't want them. Nintendo's always updated their handheld systems multiple times. It may not have always been as frequent as it is now, but then again, technology is advancing much faster than it was back then. Nintendo had four different models of the Game Boy (original, Pocket, Light, and Color), and four different models of the Game Boy Advance (original, SP, SP 2, and micro). This isn't anything new from Nintendo, the cycle is just happening faster because technology is advancing progressively faster.

On the subject of future 3DS models, if the 3DS follows the same pattern as Nintendo's previous handhelds, then, yes, you can probably expect to see newer 3DS models in the future. But as someone who has stuck with the original Nintendo DS for so long and ignored all of its newer models, why are you being hesitant to buy the first model of the Nintendo 3DS?

You do realize that Nintendo has spend nearly six years of R&D on the Nintendo 3DS, right? Not a year or two, as you seem to believe. Nintendo started research and development on the successor to the Nintendo DS immediately after its release, and the Nintendo 3DS as we know it first came into shape three years ago. Nintendo has certainly given the 3DS the R&D time that it needs. Yes, there will probably be better versions of it in the future, but why wait and cut yourself off from playing any new handheld games until then? Besides, I thought you didn't care for the newer models of handheld systems? I'm sure you'll find that your first 3DS will be just fine for you, even after they release a newer model.

You make a lot of good points. In the end, though, it comes down to one point... the reason why I don't play Wii that much, rarely play DS, and I guess it's not just Nintendo's problem, but the industry in general... and your reasoning is a perfect example. Video game creators have lost focus on creating good video games. One of the hyped up titles for the 3DS serves as a great model of this, Animal Crossing.

Since this is an AC-themed forum, mostly everyone here would agree that AC for Gamecube was an amazing game. It was unique, did what no previous game had ever done, and was fun for hours on end. ACWW came along 3 years later. At first, it too was quite enjoyable... online play, new items, a couple other new features... but anyone who says this wasn't just a recycled version of the original is crazy... which would explain why everyone stopped playing it so soon. And then another 3 years later, we got ACCF. Again, a recycled game with a couple new features (WiiSpeak! Go to the city!) and Nintendo has another staple best-seller for the Wii. AC for 3DS has a new twist... you're the mayor of the town. So one of two things will happen - it will actually be a new, fresh game, or a recycled version of the first 3 AC games with a new gimmicky feature.

Which is what I wonder with almost every new Wii/DS game before I buy one... and it's sad to say that the majority of the time it's just some game with a couple gimmicky add-ons to a previous game.

See, it's attitudes like that that I just don't understand. It seems that people like you can't enjoy new installments in a franchise unless each new game completely reinvents the franchise. Well...that's not a franchise. One of the things that makes Nintendo's franchises so great is that it's all familiar to you, though presented differently each time. There's no doubt that every Mario and Zelda game are similar to each other, but at the same time there are many new elements and gameplay mechanics that differentiate them. Yes, City Folk may have reused a lot from Wild World, but at the same time it added new features. Maybe it didn't add enough new content in your eyes, but it certainly did in mine. And while it may not be as different from its predecessor as some other titles are, what's wrong with more of the same every once and awhile? Since when is more of a good thing bad? I loved Wild World, and since City Folk is basically Wild World plus more content, I loved it even more. But, alas, not everything thinks the way I do.

I think it started to change when I started working and earning money. So instead of using gift cards from my birthday I was using money that I was earning at 8 bucks an hour. And then I realized that for 50 bucks, I could get a lot more entertainment than a recycled video game.

I think it'd be appropriate to compare a game franchise to a sports franchise. Fans of a team want and expect a good team each season. A lot of the time this means bringing back the core of the team - veterans, superstars, etc. but still adding new young players and maybe a couple other new guys. But after a team has a couple bad years in a row, or the good players are getting too old, things need to change. Make some big trades, sign a bunch of free agents, develop a new draft strategy, etc.

The exact same concept applies to games. Nintendo's done a pretty good job w/ the Mario series. There's the main line of games that everyone loves - the SMB games, then the SMW games, then SM64 and Sunshine, and now Galaxy... all solid games. But every now and then Nintendo realizes they need to mix it up. By this, I don't mean Mario Tennis (as awesome as that game was) - that's just sticking the Mario name on a game and having Mario-world characters. But Paper Mario was a great example of Nintendo realizing they needed to mix things up and it worked great. One of my favorite N64 games - and that's saying quite a bit. PMTTYD was a good game, overall, too. But it was the same thing as the original PM... so as much fun as it was, I couldn't stick with it all the way through to beat the game. Then came Super Paper Mario... PM in 2D and 3D! By this point Nintendo was beating a dead horse... just let the side-franchise end on a high note, instead of watering it down every 3 years. And what do you know... PM 3DS has been announced.

My point is this - Nintendo has done a good job of putting quality games out there in the past. But they've become so focused on making an extra buck that they're pushing new Mario, LoZ, Metroid, etc. games out so fast and just adding a couple new features instead of doing what they used to do best - fun gameplay that would have us hooked for hours and hours. To Nintendo, it is more important that a game has motion controls so they can market it and put something that sounds cool on the back of the box rather than really pushing the limit on the quality of their games.

So...you're basically saying that Nintendo should stop making new installments in the main series of their franchises, and instead focus on making spin-off franchises of those franchises, but never make any sequels to them? Yeah, I still don't understand your point of view here. You say that Nintendo doesn't make games with fun gameplay that hooks us for hours anymore...but that couldn't be further from the truth. I've probably played my Wii and DS games more and had more with them then any of my other games on previous Nintendo consoles. I guess you just bore easily or something. Seriously, every new game doesn't have to be a freaking new IP for you to be able to enjoy it. Sometimes more of the same is a good thing, especially when it's more of the same of a great franchise.

 

[Psychonaut]

See, it's attitudes like that that I just don't understand. It seems that people like you can't enjoy new installments in a franchise unless each new game completely reinvents the franchise. Well...that's not a franchise. One of the things that makes Nintendo's franchises so great is that it's all familiar to you, though presented differently each time. There's no doubt that every Mario and Zelda game are similar to each other, but at the same time there are many new elements and gameplay mechanics that differentiate them. Yes, City Folk may have reused a lot from Wild World, but at the same time it added new features. Maybe it didn't add enough new content in your eyes, but it certainly did in mine. And while it may not be as different from its predecessor as some other titles are, what's wrong with more of the same every once and awhile? Since when is more of a good thing bad? I loved Wild World, and since City Folk is basically Wild World plus more content, I loved it even more. But, alas, not everything thinks the way I do.

let me start by saying, his attitude is completely understandable to anyone who is either on a budget, or doesn't want to waste their time with the same game, when it should be a new game (buying the original super mario bros game twice, having two copies of wind waker when you only want one, just examples) pokemon is in essence the same damn game every time, and has been this way (and noted as being this way) for its existence since g/s/c.

being a nintendo fanboy, I doubt you can see past us(/myself) calling you a fanboy, and us just being ignorant folks who don't just want a game, but want a good game, worth the time (and money) it takes to buy and play said game. that may make the game-playing process seem a bit sterile, but if you're on websites daily, trying to find information about the game that's been leaked, I don't think you really have much of a foot to stand on, since gaming is about... gaming, not knowing everything about everything before everything is given. a review when the game releases would be just fine, but that's asking a bit much, I guess.

I really don't think it was a good idea bringing up animal crossing, since the same basic game is always going to be the same/similar. nintendo's lack of anything substantial in the game just proves how easy it is for them to sell to their customers, who are either longtime diehard fans (such as yourself, obviously) or to a younger crowd who honestly doesn't know any better. animal crossing is the same as it was from day one, they've just added a few new sets of furniture.

I don't mean to get onto a pcgaemin-*** raeg, but if you want to compare pokemon, animal crossing, or hell, even mario or zelda to a few of valve's titles, I'm sure that you would see that the orange box, for $30, is a much better value than buying a nintendo product, (if you like shootan gaemz) when you factor in the constant updates provided through steam, the massive content additions to team fortress (now, since the engineer update, giving every playable character 3 more weapons to use, and plenty of maps), along with the developer kit, for those who have the know-how to make even more maps and content, which you can enjoy whether or not you touch the developer kit (since you can play the maps by simply downloading, automatically, from the server you're playing on)

but that would be comparing apples to oranges, and nintendo will never jump that far/that way into the game.

point is, nintendo has little depth when you compare it to others. everyone buys the games, and most people love them blindly. this does not mean that every game is good/bad, this is just a statement. every company has this effect if they are good, and it isn't really a bad thing for the company until it starts abusing this fanbase, *censored.2.0*ting out a new copy of the game every year, with the "real" new games coming after they're done remaking everything. (talking about pokemon)

if you love city folk, that's great. I am still playing wild world, because it's much more enjoyable to me, since I can take it wherever I am.

the point is, that whether or not the game is still good doesn't matter when the game is exactly the same as it was last. city folk is probably the best example of nintendo copy-pasting it's old game into the new. there was wii speak, which is/was a gimmick for voice chat (which everyone other than nintendo, and even nintendo, counting the ds, already has/had), and the added wifi functionality, i guess, along with a few new items.

why they couldn't have just added that into the "DLC" for wild world, and spent a year or two of extra time developing something new for city folk is beyond me, but oh well. the game at its core is the same, and.. thinking about it now, I might hold off on ac: 3ds. no matter how much we hope it won't be, it's just going to be the same thing, repackaged, I'm sure. (hoping the mayor thing adds a lot)

so... tl;dr, it's attitudes of the raving fanboys that I don't understand. nintendo does copy their games, whether they're good or not, and the simple fact that they do copy their games warrants that gamers who do not want the same damn game over and over shouldn't buy it. mario and zelda and metroid all have different games, vastly. you can't compare metroid prime to the original metroid, nor can you do the same with super metroid. or super mario 64 to super mario sunshine or galaxy. all of the games that people still care about, are games that aren't copied from last weeks version.

but I'm rambling.

I feel like the DSi is a bit half-baked, without any real support for what the system is offering on paper. I don't have one and haven't been keeping up to speed on games for it, but I would easily assume that the camera isn't being implemented in-game, which is what we all love nintendo for, other than their innovation in gaming.. which counts as in-game, in my opinion. (meaning loving nintendo for games and innovation in gaming... said that awfully.)

Oh, there are plenty of games that utilize the DSi's camera in-game, both retail games and DSiWare titles. And while there aren't very many DSi-exclusive retail games, there certainly are a lot of regular DS games with special DSi features. Trust me, I deal with video games every day at work. The thing is...all of the current retail DS games that make use of the DSi's cameras, to my knowledge, are third party games, and most of the games that use the cameras are what most gamers would consider "shovelware". That doesn't mean that it's all shovelware, though.

Anyway, again, to my knowledge, Nintendo hasn't made a retail DS game that has bonus features for the DSi of their own yet, and I know for a fact that they haven't made a DSi-exlcusive retail game. That would make Pok

 

[Mr. L]

Running out of ideas much?

 

[Tyeforce]

See, it's attitudes like that that I just don't understand. It seems that people like you can't enjoy new installments in a franchise unless each new game completely reinvents the franchise. Well...that's not a franchise. One of the things that makes Nintendo's franchises so great is that it's all familiar to you, though presented differently each time. There's no doubt that every Mario and Zelda game are similar to each other, but at the same time there are many new elements and gameplay mechanics that differentiate them. Yes, City Folk may have reused a lot from Wild World, but at the same time it added new features. Maybe it didn't add enough new content in your eyes, but it certainly did in mine. And while it may not be as different from its predecessor as some other titles are, what's wrong with more of the same every once and awhile? Since when is more of a good thing bad? I loved Wild World, and since City Folk is basically Wild World plus more content, I loved it even more. But, alas, not everything thinks the way I do.

let me start by saying, his attitude is completely understandable to anyone who is either on a budget, or doesn't want to waste their time with the same game, when it should be a new game (buying the original super mario bros game twice, having two copies of wind waker when you only want one, just examples) pokemon is in essence the same damn game every time, and has been this way (and noted as being this way) for its existence since g/s/c.

being a nintendo fanboy, I doubt you can see past us(/myself) calling you a fanboy, and us just being ignorant folks who don't just want a game, but want a good game, worth the time (and money) it takes to buy and play said game. that may make the game-playing process seem a bit sterile, but if you're on websites daily, trying to find information about the game that's been leaked, I don't think you really have much of a foot to stand on, since gaming is about... gaming, not knowing everything about everything before everything is given. a review when the game releases would be just fine, but that's asking a bit much, I guess.

I really don't think it was a good idea bringing up animal crossing, since the same basic game is always going to be the same/similar. nintendo's lack of anything substantial in the game just proves how easy it is for them to sell to their customers, who are either longtime diehard fans (such as yourself, obviously) or to a younger crowd who honestly doesn't know any better. animal crossing is the same as it was from day one, they've just added a few new sets of furniture.

I don't mean to get onto a pcgaemin-*** raeg, but if you want to compare pokemon, animal crossing, or hell, even mario or zelda to a few of valve's titles, I'm sure that you would see that the orange box, for $30, is a much better value than buying a nintendo product, (if you like shootan gaemz) when you factor in the constant updates provided through steam, the massive content additions to team fortress (now, since the engineer update, giving every playable character 3 more weapons to use, and plenty of maps), along with the developer kit, for those who have the know-how to make even more maps and content, which you can enjoy whether or not you touch the developer kit (since you can play the maps by simply downloading, automatically, from the server you're playing on)

but that would be comparing apples to oranges, and nintendo will never jump that far/that way into the game.

point is, nintendo has little depth when you compare it to others. everyone buys the games, and most people love them blindly. this does not mean that every game is good/bad, this is just a statement. every company has this effect if they are good, and it isn't really a bad thing for the company until it starts abusing this fanbase, *censored.2.0*ting out a new copy of the game every year, with the "real" new games coming after they're done remaking everything. (talking about pokemon)

if you love city folk, that's great. I am still playing wild world, because it's much more enjoyable to me, since I can take it wherever I am.

the point is, that whether or not the game is still good doesn't matter when the game is exactly the same as it was last. city folk is probably the best example of nintendo copy-pasting it's old game into the new. there was wii speak, which is/was a gimmick for voice chat (which everyone other than nintendo, and even nintendo, counting the ds, already has/had), and the added wifi functionality, i guess, along with a few new items.

why they couldn't have just added that into the "DLC" for wild world, and spent a year or two of extra time developing something new for city folk is beyond me, but oh well. the game at its core is the same, and.. thinking about it now, I might hold off on ac: 3ds. no matter how much we hope it won't be, it's just going to be the same thing, repackaged, I'm sure. (hoping the mayor thing adds a lot)

so... tl;dr, it's attitudes of the raving fanboys that I don't understand. nintendo does copy their games, whether they're good or not, and the simple fact that they do copy their games warrants that gamers who do not want the same damn game over and over shouldn't buy it. mario and zelda and metroid all have different games, vastly. you can't compare metroid prime to the original metroid, nor can you do the same with super metroid. or super mario 64 to super mario sunshine or galaxy. all of the games that people still care about, are games that aren't copied from last weeks version.

but I'm rambling.

I feel like the DSi is a bit half-baked, without any real support for what the system is offering on paper. I don't have one and haven't been keeping up to speed on games for it, but I would easily assume that the camera isn't being implemented in-game, which is what we all love nintendo for, other than their innovation in gaming.. which counts as in-game, in my opinion. (meaning loving nintendo for games and innovation in gaming... said that awfully.)

Oh, there are plenty of games that utilize the DSi's camera in-game, both retail games and DSiWare titles. And while there aren't very many DSi-exclusive retail games, there certainly are a lot of regular DS games with special DSi features. Trust me, I deal with video games every day at work. The thing is...all of the current retail DS games that make use of the DSi's cameras, to my knowledge, are third party games, and most of the games that use the cameras are what most gamers would consider "shovelware". That doesn't mean that it's all shovelware, though.

Anyway, again, to my knowledge, Nintendo hasn't made a retail DS game that has bonus features for the DSi of their own yet, and I know for a fact that they haven't made a DSi-exlcusive retail game. That would make Pok

 

[DarthGohan1]

Since everyone's writing really long, but really good, posts I'm just going to reference things people have said rather than quoting everything.

@Tye - Psychonaut highlighted the main things I was trying to say... although I feel he was a bit harsh. I don't think Tye is a fanboy... I think the word should only be used when appropriate. His favorite games may be Nintendo's, but (and I don't know your exact job / where you work) he is able to recommend any game for the right person. I also don't know your age, Tye, but I'm assuming somewhere between 13-16... and I'd bet that withing 3 or 4 years (assuming you keep buying a decent number of games and playing different games, etc. over that span) you too will start to get bored with games, both Nintendo's and others'.

As for the main argument, I'm not saying stop making games for the big franchises. But Nintendo currently has the attitude that every year or two they NEED to release a new Mario/LoZ/Metroid/DK/Kirby/AC/etc. game. Not true! If someone @ Nintendo has a really good idea for a new game in one of those franchises, awesome! But if not, don't force it. Psycho brings up another good example in Metroid Prime. One of my favorite games of all time is Super Metroid. I can't tell you how excited I was when Metroid Prime came out. To be honest, I'm not a big fps fan so I didn't enjoy the game as much as other people. But it was a really neat game. MP2 came out w/ a new story, new features, etc. and it also sold really well. But was there anything new left for Nintendo to do with Metroid after that? Not enough for a $50 game. And they released MP3... a good game, but what kind of new experience was it? It was MP2 with a new storyline and updated Wii controls...

The fact is Nintendo doesn't NEED to push out these franchise games so often. Give new franchises a chance. And when the time is right add on to everyone's favorite oldies. When they give new things a chance they're usually amazing - Pokemon in 1998, Super Smash Bros. in 1999, Animal Crossing in 2001/2, ... this list goes on: Advance Wars, Custom Robo, Pikmin, Mario Party... and how often when they release a new game are they just beating a dead horse? For every Super Mario Galaxy (aka good addition to a franchise) there's a Metroid Prime 3, Mario Party 8, etc. etc (the beating of dead horses).

In summary, I wish they'd keep their good franchises going while releasing many more original creations. Because all good franchises once were original creations... and there's only so far each one can go.