Universal income: Things I've heard whispered.

[mogyay]

And if homeless people keep getting money, they’re not going to stop if it’s working. They’re getting what they want begging. There’s no motivation to change… if people stop helping, they’ll see it’s not working and maybe then will things change.

this is the worst take i've seen in a while, nobody wants to be homeless. the world isn't ready for UI because of opinions like this, the majority of people don't want to eradicate inequality when it comes to the worse off in society. i don't necessarily know how i stand on UI since i don't think it's ever been sampled on a large scale but it's definitely one way to redistribute wealth which is badly needed.

 

[seliph]

Absolutely. Get people out there. There's people who claim they can't work because of this and that but yet stand on the side of the road for the entire day begging for money. Imo if you can stand for 8+ hours there, you can stand at a cash register. It's just laziness and mooching off others.

Obviously I'm not talking about people with actual disabilities.

can you define "actual disability" and "this and that" 'cause the whole first part of your post sounds like a strawman argument to call homeless/disabled people lazy.

 

[Kitsuragi]

And if homeless people keep getting money, they’re not going to stop if it’s working. They’re getting what they want begging. There’s no motivation to change… if people stop helping, they’ll see it’s not working and maybe then will things change.

Huh? What? Is this serious? I usually agree with the things you post but this is a bit tunnel visioned view. Most homeless people do not choose to be homeless nor do they have the means to not become homeless. My partner was homeless for 5 years because his house caught on fire & his dad was disabled and couldn't afford housing. He spent those 5 years working and applying for all sorts of welfare while my partner, A CHILD, had to couch surf with his friends and family. There was no real financial help for years until he could become legal age to work (16) and had to work to support his family on an extremely tight income that still required other kinds of financial programs to assist, of which are EXTREMELY HARD TO GET ONTO, such as Section 8 and disability. And just for the record, many homeless people are disabled.

It's very ignorant to assume everyone who's homeless receives any kind of help currently, especially in lower income areas or even areas where homeless are being actively pushed out and seen as a burden I.E New York. And even then, it's not like every homeless person is begging on the side of the road and receiving money in a tin can from strangers... Homelessness doesn't always work like the movies... You'd be shocked what homelessness really looks like.

This entire thread is the most depressing thing I think I've ever read on this site and I'm extremely disappointed to see what people assume of the homeless population. It really makes me think differently about this community.

 

[seliph]

a big problem here (apart from you know, the blatant disrespect to financially insecure + disabled people) is i don't think people are broadening their view enough to accept that UBI isn't meant to be the end all and are therefore dismissing it entirely. it's a partial step in the bigger picture - universal income, investing in social programs, taxing the rich (which someone else mentioned as well), preventing megacorporations having a monopoly on the entire world, the list goes on.

the latter two are where the money comes from, it's not taking money from middle class families while the rich get richer lol. "where will they get the money for this?" is always the question when someone proposes any beneficial social/financial programs and i beg of you all to take a look at your government's military spending and then ask that question again.

 

[Croconaw]

-snip-

I was considering replying to this in bits and pieces because there’s a lot in here that I want to respond to in particular. First, I should have probably included in my post that it wasn’t *all* homelessness, and grouping people together in general isn’t a good thing, so that was my bad.

I didn’t think too much about the homeless population nor form an opinion on them before I’ve had poor encounters with some of them, which brings me back to the last sentence in my first excerpt. I won’t explain the bad encounters since they aren’t relevant here, but I have previously talked about them on this forum. That really tainted my view of them, and that’s personally something I’ve been working on for myself.

I can see how my post may have been misinterpreted, because I truly did not mean to group every single homeless person into one category. There are some homeless people who are trying to better themselves and they just need extra help, I understand that. But there are fake homeless people who do exist — search it up on YouTube. It’s just something that works, but it takes away from people who are actually homeless and trying.

Again, my apologies if my one post seemed insensitive.

 

[Kitsuragi]

But there are fake homeless people who do exist — search it up on YouTube. It’s just something that works, but it takes away from people who are actually homeless and trying.

I think the amount of "fake" homeless is very very marginal compared to the amount of real homeless folk there are. Lots of "fake" things exist online- people who fake autism, fake cancer, fake being rich, fake being poor. It's how the internet works. Unfortunately people like that who do get the attention they don't deserve are a huge hinderence to the actual folk who need help- but that's not the fault of the general populace.

I do hope that you don't take a broad community such as the homeless population at face value- a lot of the times they're displaced from situations they themselves can't control. And I appreciate your apology.

 

[ali.di.magix]

i beg of you all to take a look at your government's military spending and then ask that question again.

Thats a good point actually. I didn't realize how much my country spent on military; I knew it wouldn't be much but its more than I expected and surprisingly it's increased since our current government have taken over.

 

[LadyDestani]

a big problem here (apart from you know, the blatant disrespect to financially insecure + disabled people) is i don't think people are broadening their view enough to accept that UBI isn't meant to be the end all and are therefore dismissing it entirely. it's a partial step in the bigger picture - universal income, investing in social programs, taxing the rich (which someone else mentioned as well), preventing megacorporations having a monopoly on the entire world, the list goes on.

the latter two are where the money comes from, it's not taking money from middle class families while the rich get richer lol. "where will they get the money for this?" is always the question when someone proposes any beneficial social/financial programs and i beg of you all to take a look at your government's military spending and then ask that question again.

I agree that it needs to be a part of the whole. Simply being practical about it, though, I don't have any faith in the US goverment to be able to get these things done or to even have any interest in doing them. We need people in power who are willing to shake things up, people who can agree and compromise, people who listen to the citizens and try to actually give them what they need. In our current system, I frankly don't see that happening.

 

[nightglow]

I didn't expect UBI to be controversial since it hasn't been a focal point yet as a method to go with so far (or as far as I know anyway... I see someone mention Alaska. Idk much about Alaska).
What the idea of ubi tries to help is a huge, very intertwined issue that has many variables about it. (Ubi main focus: trying to support those in difficult times or to be able to have some sort of quality of life even if it is super bland and super basic and not that desirable but allows for one's existence simply because they are human though limited, or struggles for one reason or another) And like many ideas, there are downsides, upsides, challenges, and hurtles.
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts shared on the matter. I do hope discussion continues from ones own thoughts about ubi and my later qu of job placement. It is an important topic that I think will be talked about more often as time marches, and perhaps other ideas may be presented as other possible approaches to the economy and human struggles later, that many feel cannot currently stay the same for much longer whether it's about numbers or cuz an increase in robotics.