The Official Feedback Thread

[Tude]

You can also put users on ignore. They won't be able to send you a message.

 

[Yoshi155]

Hello I am not see where to put this but I make an ask for it here.

How do I make a stop of 16 year old schoolboys sending me many frantic message and offer to talk with me in this German about making edit to my posts? I am grown man and this be not most appropriate for schoolboy to make a messages this many to me of private. Please understand.

How can I be turn this to stop this happen? I can make suggest of user under 18 cannot make a private message to adult and children must not be message adults? It is not much appropriate please.


Thank you, I do this to all the message of all 3 page for your advice. I do a try to make a leave this message already but he came back with more message and it do not stop them coming so something is be wrong, maybe it is me doing it wrong?

I do say it is better for school children not to message in private to adult and because it is being concern on this website about adults making a private talk to children not appropriate, I think it maybe need a real rule on this.

Thank you for telling me how you do this.

OMFG. I really don’t understand why you think it’s acceptable to post about innocuous private messages like this in public but okay. To set the record straight, since you’re wording it in a way that makes me look like an obsessive freak, I asked you about your opinion on something. But you answered it in a public thread instead (and also hardly even answered my question), so I asked you to remove it, but you didn’t understand what I was asking so I asked if I should just translate it to another language. Only because I thought that would be easier since trying to tell you what I wanted you to do in English was giving me a ****ing migraine. The reason I continued to send you messages, even after I realized it was beyond pointless to do so, is because I asked you to remove the post and you just left it up when it would take two seconds to get rid of it. It’s not like I was asking you, an adult, to send me feet pics or anything. Idk why you’re treating it like that. And also, aren’t I the minor in this situation? Shouldn’t I be the one concerned that you’re a predator? This **** is so stupid. You can literally see my age if you click on my icon, so how it took you this long to realize my age is a mystery to me. In my two years on this site, you’re the first adult I’ve ever sent a dm that I’ve seen make such a big deal out of this, why tf are you so concerned over my safety? If at any point, you said anything inappropriate, I could have just left the message and reported you to staff. I can understand not being comfortable having a private message with a minor, but I don’t understand why you’re only just realizing I’m a minor and also deciding to post about this publicly.

Also, since there is absolutely nothing inappropriate in the message for staff to look at, you can just press the leave button and pick the second option after that to not get notified of new messages, which is what I did because I’d rather not stay in that and have an aneurysm. Istg if this becomes the next multi page long issue I’m going to crash out.

 

[GooseyGuos]

You can also put users on ignore. They won't be able to send you a message.

Thank you I do not want to make it to ignore people postings but only this private messages. I still be getting this private message and I did a leave but more message to come through .

OMFG. I really don’t understand why you think it’s acceptable to post about innocuous private messages like this in public but okay. To set the record straight, since you’re wording it in a way that makes me look like an obsessive freak, I asked you about your opinion on something. But you answered it in a public thread instead (and also hardly even answered my question), so I asked you to remove it, but you didn’t understand what I was asking so I asked if I should just translate it to another language. Only because I thought that would be easier since trying to tell you what I wanted you to do in English was giving me a ****ing migraine. The reason I continued to send you messages, even after I realized it was beyond pointless to do so, is because I asked you to remove the post and you just left it up when it would take two seconds to get rid of it. It’s not like I was asking you, an adult, to send me feet pics or anything. Idk why you’re treating it like that. And also, aren’t I the minor in this situation? Shouldn’t I be the one concerned that you’re a predator? This **** is so stupid. You can literally see my age if you click on my icon, so how it took you this long to realize my age is a mystery to me. In my two years on this site, you’re the first adult I’ve ever sent a dm that I’ve seen make such a big deal out of this, why tf are you so concerned over my safety? If at any point, you said anything inappropriate, I could have just left the message and reported you to staff. I can understand not being comfortable having a private message with a minor, but I don’t understand why you’re only just realizing I’m a minor and also deciding to post about this publicly.

Also, since there is absolutely nothing inappropriate in the message for staff to look at, you can just press the leave button and pick the second option after that to not get notified of new messages, which is what I did because I’d rather not stay in that and have an aneurysm. Istg if this becomes the next multi page long issue I’m going to crash out.

Please stop message me in a private now like I asking you and if you are do a message in private to more so adult, that need to become something for staff to know.

You still a boy in school and it is not for appropriate to message in private with adult you do not know. Your own parents will not be happy to know you do this because they cannot be of monitoring you if you are be doing it in private.

My most point for you to understand is this that the next adult you send private message to could be this dangerous. My feedback for this staff is to make this not a possible for less than 18 to make this private message to adult because for all the safety of everybody.

Please understand and not become rude for my language is be difficult. I do not have a thought I want to say private to you or anybody when I say this my thoughts already and tell you this you try make me do this anyway. I never want children to send me private message at all so please make a stop now!

 

[Yoshi155]

Please stop message me in a private now like I asking you and if you are do a message in private to more so adult, that need to become something for staff to know.

The last message I sent you was basically saying what I’m saying now but alright. It’s not like I have any interest in further discussion with you.

You still a boy in school and it is not for appropriate to message in private with adult you do not know. Your own parents will not be happy to know you do this because they cannot be of monitoring you if you are be doing it in private.

I am aware of the dangers of the internet. That being said, every other adult I’ve ever interacted with on this site in a private message has acted normally, so I will continue doing it (I’m also going to assume staff isn’t oblivious enough to think that minors being in dms with adults is a new thing and I’m the only person that does it). You’re the first person I’ve seen show explicit concern over my safety. My parents don’t even know about this site in the first place.

My most point for you to understand is this that the next adult you send private message to could be this dangerous. My feedback for this staff is to make this not a possible for less than 18 to make this private message to adult because for all the safety of everybody.

We’ve had an entire discussion on this kind of thing many pages back and I don’t remember what the general consensus was, but I don’t think that your suggestion is necessary. I understand wanting to protect minors, but like I said, in this case, if the conversation was getting inappropriate, I would have just left it. And it didn’t because all I was doing in this one was asking you a simple question. You’re the one getting upset. Also, my main issue was how you seem distressed by the fact that I’m a minor yet never bothered to find out before now. And then you said in this post and that you were referring to me, meaning that anyone with sense would be able to tell that your posts in this thread are about me.

Please understand and not become rude for my language is be difficult. I do not have a thought I want to say private to you or anybody when I say this my thoughts already and tell you this you try make me do this anyway. I never want children to send me private message at all so please make a stop now!

I’m not being rude to you because your English is bad (why do you always make this assumption?). I think it’s easy to understand why I was getting frustrated when I asked you to remove a post that should have been private and you didn’t understand what I was saying. If it was so hard for you to answer it privately, you could have just not answered it. I think you’re just assuming that private means it has to be inappropriate just because it’s only being shared between two people. It was just a question. Again, it’s not like I was asking you to send me feet pics. But the most baffling part to me is that entire first paragraph saying that you were answering something that was asked in a private message… by me. You name dropped me and the fact that I sent you a private message. Why would you ever include that?

I’m done. Here’s how you completely leave a conversation.

Press leave and pick this option. You’ll do us both a favor. Thanks sir.

 

[themysterybidder]

@GooseyGuos if you, as an adult, choose to join a site that members from the age of 13 can join, then it's possible for 13 year olds to message you. You can also go into your privacy settings and make it so no-one or only selected members you follow can message you or see your profile. https://www.belltreeforums.com/account/privacy

 

[daringred_]

You still a boy in school and it is not for appropriate to message in private with adult you do not know. Your own parents will not be happy to know you do this because they cannot be of monitoring you if you are be doing it in private.

My most point for you to understand is this that the next adult you send private message to could be this dangerous. My feedback for this staff is to make this not a possible for less than 18 to make this private message to adult because for all the safety of everybody.

this is such a bizarre take. if you don't want to interact with someone, use the /ignore feature or leave the conversation. there's nothing wrong with adults and minors conversing so long as the former keeps things appropriate and safe for work, you're making much ado about nothing as usual. there's nothing inherently dangerous, problematic or whatever else you're trying to perpetuate about adult/minor relationships, and they can actually be beneficial for teenagers who have unsafe home lives, abusive parents and/or no safe adult to turn to in their real lives. there's nothing wrong with yoshi talking to adults lmao. this HAS to be someone's alt. account at this point omg.

 

[GooseyGuos]

You can all make a relax now. The staff @Oblivia look into it the private message and say all is alright. I can see it to leave this now it become much difficult to do a follow instruction this way in English.

I do not think a minor should make a private contact unless it is to staff. I am sorry if it make persons unhappy with myself, but to me it is not appropriate because it is somebody child who parent is not know who they be talk to. If you say it be fine I not make an argue, but it is this feedback.

I do not want a minor person tell me to hide interaction and make edit. It become making me uncomfortable and it be this reason it for why I say it here. That is all now, it is alright.

 

[Aerith]

Man, language and cultural miscommunications can be so messy. People naturally get upset over misunderstandings, feeling like they’re being misrepresented, their words not being listened to, etc. In this very thread that’s happened a few times, and it sucks to see that it’s still happening (at least from my point of view).

I don’t think publicly calling someone a troll is helpful, nor do I think it’s a good look on the community if it wants to be a welcoming space. All it does is make the person not fluent in English feel alienated and frustrated. If you truly believe they don’t have good intentions, collect proof and send it to the staff, or just ignore them altogether.

When choosing to interact with someone whose native tongue isn’t English, and when choosing to interact in a language you haven’t mastered, it is important to accept that these conversations require more patience and tolerance from yourself. People who aren’t fluent in the language need to know when to step away and swallow the frustration of not being able to get their point across or accept that there’s things they don’t understand with the context they have. People who are fluent in the language shouldn’t talk to non-native speakers as if they’re children, but it’s polite to speak more directly than you normally would (for the record, I don’t think I’m great at this myself, so I’m not preaching to anyone here).

I don’t see it much nowadays, but when forums were more popular, it was not uncommon to see people who struggled with English as their second language. Unfortunately, there were several cases where miscommunications and strong personalities clashed, and the non-fluent users left because of it. I’d hate to see that repeated here. I get that it’s easy to assume bad intentions over the internet, but some posts here have been contrary to the safe space message. People who struggle to communicate require additional effort… that’s just how it is. If you want to be an inclusive community, you have to be willing to give more to those who need it, or be willing to accept your own limitations and not engage.

Some people might not like Gabby, but it doesn’t make Gabby’s words any less true. Sometimes you do have to let someone just not understand and leave them to it. It’s for your own benefit and well-being. If, after trying, there’s still a communication barrier you’re unable to overcome, you’ll become tired and frustrated. This will build resentment for the other person, and in some cases, can build resentment or avoidance for anyone who struggles to communicate (people with mental disabilities, dyslexics, etc). GooseyGuos obviously has no more power or influence than anyone else (and honestly, less due to the communication barrier), so if you feel like they aren’t understanding you, even after you and others have tried to help, stepping away is the best thing you can do to prevent things from escalating.

I feel like some people have gotten off to a bad start with GooseyGuos because they perceive GooseyGuos’s responses as a refusal to understand the situation. It’s really difficult to understand without the full context of language. I can understand feeling disrespected, because if someone was fluent in English and fully integrated in the community, and said the same thing, you’d think they were being willfully ignorant or not taking the issues seriously enough. Like I said earlier, these interactions just require more tolerance, an open mind, and knowing when to step away.

Patience is a two-way street. No one’s entitled to it, but I hope that people give it.

GooseyGuos’s position is cautious, and I don’t think it’s wrong to think that way. I’ve seen plenty of people have ‘Minors DNI’ in their profile on social media, and not just because of the content they talk about. Many adults don’t want to interact with minors, for a variety of reasons, and that’s OK.

@GooseyGuos it won’t prevent all minors from interacting with you, and you don't have to do it if you don't want to, but if you want your stance to be publicly known, I’d put: “Minors, please do not interact”, “Minors, DNI”, or some variation in your signature and user title (signatures don’t show up on mobile). You can edit your user title by going to this link. I've attached an image to show where it is:

I understand that your values are important to you, but it’s important for you to have patience with others, especially since you are coming into a space where you are at a disadvantage. You’re unfamiliar with the community dynamics, and you’re doing your best to practice a language, but there’s going to be context you miss because of the communication gap.

I don't know you, but I believe you’re a good person, and you’ve demonstrated good values and friendliness. I think you have good intentions. But it is true that there are some things you can’t understand without being 100% fluent. Just because there’s no event, doesn’t mean people aren’t going to have fun with each other. It’s not giving up or turning their back on the community. I can see where you might feel that way, but there’s so much nuance to the situation that can’t be explained without communicating in the same language. I hope you can understand, and I do thank you for trying to be a positive force in the community.


@Yoshi155, I don’t think anyone believes you said something inappropriate, and I’m sorry for the frustration you’ve experienced. I’m also sorry if you feel embarrassed or like you’ve been called out for doing something wrong. Thank you for trying, even if it didn’t work out. I appreciate your kindness in offering to speak in a different language to get your point across.

there's nothing inherently dangerous, problematic or whatever else you're trying to perpetuate about adult/minor relationships, and they can actually be beneficial for teenagers who have unsafe home lives, abusive parents and/or no safe adult to turn to in their real lives.

You’re totally right that not all adult-minor interactions are bad and some can even be healing. This is largely a Me Thing and I’m not insinuating you’ve said something inappropriate, but I feel compelled to voice that I did feel anxious reading this. An adult taking advantage of my abusive situation and claiming to be a safe space is exactly how I got groomed as a teenager, and I worry about minors seeking out adults specifically because they want a safe replacement for the adults in their lives. Vulnerable children and teens get preyed upon because they're easy to love bomb and manipulate.

I guess, I’m less responding directly to you, and more addressing any minors that happen to be reading. Please never assume an adult that’s a source of comfort is A Good Person. Please always be cautious in adult-minor interactions, even if you’ve trusted them for years!



edit: For context, I posted this before seeing Guos has posted and said that things were OK, not trying to start the conversation back up if that's not what's wanted!

edit#2: I'm afraid that I'll forget to post this with the cooldown being as it is, so I'm throwing my response to you @daringred here:

-----

this is very much just your personal experience though. i've had the opposite, on both ends. said adult/minor relationships are 100% safe and that we shouldn't question them or keep our guards up etc. i just said they are not inherently bad -- which is true. and certainly applicable to this situation where someone who is likely a troll on an alt. account is dragging a minor over the coals for... nothing. you might disagree, because the first part of your post is clearly directed at me lol, but i and others have very good reason to believe this is the case here, so. call it unhelpful all you want, but nothing this user has said is remotely helpful either! next time, i'd appreciate if you just directly addressed me instead of the vagueness, especially as someone directly harmed by gabby's deliberate actions lmao.

edit: also, respectfully, what do you mean send it to the staff? i've already reported them, but regardless, the same staff that has been largely unresponsive in this thread about MUCH bigger issues? the staff that are so distrustful right now that most of the community has left? like, even with concrete proof i wouldn't expect them to do anything.

Almost makes me wonder if you're a troll account.

I didn't address you specifically because I was speaking generally with that statement. There is at least one other person who accused them of being a troll publicly, and a few frustrated responses that might come across as thinking that (but I'm not going to put words in their mouths since I don't know). I don't have a problem speaking to you directly, because I just did so in my post itself.

It's great that you had a positive experience with adults as a minor and I'm happy that you can pass that onto others who need it. I don't want for people to assume the bad in everyone, and I am grateful for your efforts.

As I said in my post: I wasn't insinuating you were saying something bad. I wanted to offer more perspective and nuance to "adults bad", rather than the only well constructed viewpoint be, "adults are good for vulnerable people". I don't think it was bad for me to remind minors: "Hey, not everyone who says they're a safe space is a safe space." I feel like if I didn't quote your post, it would then come across as vagueposting and suggesting you were saying something you weren't. I tried to take precautions, but it seems I didn't communicate well enough.

My experience is not a rare occurrence. I also had adults who were good people, and I wouldn't be the same person if I didn't have them growing up. I have never advocated for a strict separation between the two. I understand feeling upset over the assumption that people might think you're a groomer, but in my personal opinion, it's better that people be cautious when it comes to minor-adult interactions, than just assume it's wholesome. People's skeptism doesn't have to be personal, if anything it should be a relief that people care. I don't think it's unreasonable or harmful for adults to have to prove their good intentions.

Regarding sending it to staff, I was speaking generally. Tbh, I had a feeling someone would mention, "but I don't trust the staff." If you don't trust the staff to moderate a member's behavior and can't fix it yourself, there's not really any options aside from ignoring it, and telling people that was their only option didn't feel helpful on my part.

 

[daringred_]

You’re totally right that not all adult-minor interactions are bad and some can even be healing. This is largely a Me Thing and I’m not insinuating you’ve said something inappropriate, but I feel compelled to voice that I did feel anxious reading this. An adult taking advantage of my abusive situation and claiming to be a safe space is exactly how I got groomed as a teenager, and I worry about minors seeking out adults specifically because they want a safe replacement for the adults in their lives. Vulnerable children and teens get preyed upon because they're easy to love bomb and manipulate.

this is very much just your personal experience though. i've had the opposite, on both ends. when i was a neglected teen on the internet, having older friends to guide me and give me advice and someone to talk to was a major help. i had to spell this out to a group of adults during a safeguarding meeting at work a few months back, because their perspective of the internet was so wildly different to mine. as an adult now with a minor friend, i would resent being accused of grooming just because i am a trusted adult to her. i helped her get into therapy, with being bullied, talking her through mental health issues etc. i never said adult/minor relationships are 100% safe and that we shouldn't question them or keep our guards up etc. i just said they are not inherently bad -- which is true. and certainly applicable to this situation where someone who is likely a troll on an alt. account is dragging a minor over the coals for... nothing. you might disagree, because the first part of your post is clearly directed at me lol, but i and others have very good reason to believe this is the case here, so. call it unhelpful all you want, but nothing this user has said is remotely helpful either! next time, i'd appreciate if you just directly addressed me instead of the vagueness, especially as someone directly harmed by gabby's deliberate actions lmao.

edit: also, respectfully, what do you mean send it to the staff? i've already reported them, but regardless, the same staff that has been largely unresponsive in this thread about MUCH bigger issues? the staff that are so distrustful right now that most of the community has left? like, even with concrete proof i wouldn't expect them to do anything.

 

[Plainbluetees]

So it's been more than two months since there was some uproar in this thread about comments of a sexual nature that were made by a staff member. I am very surprised that there have still not been any updates to the rules that would prevent comments of this nature being made by anyone again. Now, maybe the survey results aren't what I would have figured them to be, but in my head, that kind of comment just really doesn't seem like the sort of comment that should be allowed on here.

I would really like to return to this server (the rest of it, I guess) but I am absolutely not comfortable until, at the bare minimum, the rules get updated.

 

[daringred_]

snip

i don't know the chances of you seeing my second edit, so i'm reposting it as an actual reply because your attitude/response has been bothering me a lot over the last 12 hours.

all i can really say is yikes, girl. i genuinely had a positive view of you and considered you a friend, but this insistence on staunch neutrality to everything and everyone is doing your character no favors and is just making you look uninformed and dense, for lack of a better word. not to mention repeatedly implying, whether intentionally or not, that i might be a groomer, don't consider the safety of minors, have bad intentions and advocate for that sort of stuff etc.

really disgusting, messed up, hurtful and disrespectful to essentially say people should be suspicious of me. if anything in this thread is inappropriate, it's making thinly veiled accusations like that. i'm sorry you were groomed, but that doesn't give you any right to project maliciousness onto every adult/minor relationship and suggest i shouldn't be upset because actually it's a Good thing people might suspect i'm a groomer. no, it isn't, and your assertion is unfounded.

i only highlighted the potential positive of these relationships because it was in response to a probable troll trying to demand all private messages between adults and minors be banned and was fearmongering that they're inherently inappropriate and dangerous when that isn't true. it would make no sense for me to then endorse that behavior by discussing the dangers, because that is not the point i was trying to make.

if you want to play devil's advocate on perpetual neutral ground, that's up to you, but it's a terrible look, especially when it's hypocritical and makes it seem like you haven't been reading the thread very well. gabby has admitted to trolling twice in this thread explicitly, and nobody has said anything about goose's English or said that's why we think they're an alt./troll, it's their general behavior. very strange and weird to blindly defend these two and then borderline accuse me of grooming. very disappointing, and i expected better tbh.

 

[Tude]

Moderators aren't chosen by nomination. They apply for the position.

 

[-Lumi-]

I will like make this new nomination for joining staff moderation and it is this @Aerith who I do believe is to be perfect and fair to all of User here. Moderation for fair is to be neutral yes?

There is person here calling bad bully names not to me only but to @Gabby and to Aerith now. It is allowed to happen this way? Is it same person who become involve self in all the many drama that make this Feedback thread become this much anger in this first place. Maybe the problem is to be you the person throw the stones at all the other all this time.

Hi Goosey,

We haven't spoken before but I have tried my best to read through the last few pages of the thread and understand what is going on.

I understand that English isn't your native language, or even your second language, but that doesn't excuse you dismissing other people. You are very quick to say, "you are bullying me for my bad English!" When your English isn't the problem, it's your stances on issues.

People aren't "throwing stones" at you. This is a feedback thread on a forum with a very messy history. You are a brand new user - you don't have the context of everything that's happened over the years on the website. That's not your fault! But it is very hurtful to people who have been trying their best to get staff to understand the flaws of the website for you to come in here and pretend everything is okay and that we are all overreacting.

Your reactions to criticism are very big. Criticism is not inherently bad, it can be helpful. Everyone needs to be criticized sometimes to learn and grow as people. When you aren't willing to read what people are telling you and instead become defensive it makes other people feel frustrated.

As Tude said, we don't nominate users to become staff. Even if we did, however, the thought process of "these people are good because they are neutral" is problematic. Neutral stances do not equal fair or just stances.

It is important for people to have firm beliefs on things. If you are going to be a leader in a community it is important that you know what you stand for and are willing to put your foot down when you see something is wrong. People who insist on remaining neutral, always giving the other party the benefit of the doubt, always "waiting for something bad to happen", are a problem. They might not intend to be! They might really believe that being neutral on things is the fairest way to go about things but it's simply not true.

Some people are bad people. They have dangerous views on things, they are bullies, they enjoy poking at people and making them feel bad. It's not mean for me to say that some people aren't good - it's simply the truth. It's a hard truth, it's a truth we don't always want to hear, but pretending it's not true doesn't help anyone.

It's important to have staff that are aware and have firm beliefs on issues because they are better able to weed out when people are genuinely making mistakes vs somebody who is clearly trying to provoke people.

 

[daringred_]

I will like make this new nomination for joining staff moderation and it is this @Aerith who I do believe is to be perfect and fair to all of User here. Moderation for fair is to be neutral yes?

There is person here calling bad bully names not to me only but to @Gabby and to Aerith now. It is allowed to happen this way? Is it same person who become involve self in all the many drama that make this Feedback thread become this much anger in this first place. Maybe the problem is to be you the person throw the stones at all the other all this time.

you know nothing about me or, evidently, this site and the problems raised in this feedback thread. don't vaguely slander me just because i don't appreciate having another user imply i'm a groomer largely because i stood up to your nonsense, or because i take issue with another user maliciously leaking private messages to deliberately stir drama. i'm not going to be overly saccharine to people who act like that. if i'm a problem, you certainly are, too, alt. account or not. you've involved and inserted yourself here to the thread's detriment far more than i have.

edit: the fact that you, as a new user, couldn't possibly know lumi and i interact lmao. tipped your hand again, i fear. impossible to take someone so blatantly crap-stirring seriously, frankly.

 

[Gabby]

call it unhelpful all you want, but nothing this user has said is remotely helpful either! next time, i'd appreciate if you just directly addressed me instead of the vagueness, especially as someone directly harmed by gabby's deliberate actions lmao.

As if you didn’t harm another user and make them delete an entire post because of a homicidal vocal stim. Respectfully asking that you hop off, please. You keep making these sneak-dissing posts about me and now you’re calling me out again. Take some accountability that you made someone uncomfortable by your words and if you didn’t want that to happen then perhaps you should have phrased yourself more carefully in a public chat. You say maliciously stir drama. I say, bring to light the toxicity in that particular circle of people that makes regular TBT users afraid to post a dissenting opinion. The collectibles chat is a hotbed of toxicity, but you all are so deep in it you don’t even see it.

I apologize for the harm that I’ve caused you. I’ve decided to drop it. I’m not even in the collectibles chat anymore. Clearly we are not friends, but can you stop mentioning me? I swear like almost every post in this thread or the Gen AI thread has some reference to me either directly or indirectly. It’s giving obsessive, luv.

 

[Jeremy]

Hey all, let's please bring the thread back on topic, but more importantly, the insults/criticisms against other members need to stop. This is, of course, one of the reasons we will be transitioning away from a single feedback thread, as I previously mentioned. I also want to restate the bolded part below because, if you feel the staff should address a specific topic that we have yet to address, we would like to hear about it again.

Our current plan is to transition away from this thread in place of individual feedback threads (like the thread about banning AI from The Museum). We would instead add a feedback prefix to Bell Tree HQ that can be used by members to make suggestions, or by staff to talk about these specific issues. Individual threads would allow topics to stay organized and make it easier for staff to respond to.

For the time being, however, we would like to continue using this thread until we feel like we've addressed the topics we said we would address. Some of the topics from the beginning of this thread have been answered in pieces or may be less of a priority at this time, so please feel free to let us know which topics are important to you, and we'll either try our best to address them here or include them in a new thread.

 

[-Lumi-]

Hey all, let's please bring the thread back on topic, but more importantly, the insults/criticisms against other members need to stop. This is, of course, one of the reasons we will be transitioning away from a single feedback thread, as I previously mentioned. I also want to restate the bolded part below because, if you feel the staff should address a specific topic that we have yet to address, we would like to hear about it again.

Hi Jeremy,

I think these issues aren't going to be solved by simply making a bunch of smaller feedback threads. The issue currently is that there is a lack of staff involvement in this thread and that staff only seem to step in after a lot has already happened.

It's unfair for you (general you being Staff) to say that we (regular forum members) shouldn't reply to or engage with "off topic" discussions or that we shouldn't "criticize other members" and instead ignore what's happening and wait for staff involvement when... staff involvement doesn't come. And in the mean time people are spreading misinformation or being downright hurtful and the effected parties are supposed to just ignore it?

Channeling feedback into several different threads won't change what you're receiving feedback about. There are problems at the core of how The Bell Tree is run from project staff, moderators, down to the admin team.

Shifting a problematic moderator into a project staff role isn't addressing the feedback people have given. It's an insulting solution and people have said that, yet you continue to ignore it. It's even more troubling when the problem with the Valentines Day issue that instigated things was how that staff member ran that event... something they will still be allowed to do as project staff.

You banned one user for reasons that remain unclear to both the general user base and those of us who have seen the specific ban message. Yet other users, users who have knowingly continued to cause harm, post troubling things, and have made multiple people uncomfortable from a safety standpoint continue to be active because, "staff don't know their true intentions yet," and are "waiting to see how things play out," under the guise of being a "neutral and fair staff team".

Opening up a big feedback thread like this and then having essentially no staff on hand to moderate it and provide answers to the feedback is also a problem in itself. You keep stating that many of the staff are on hiatuses and that you hope to add new staff in the future. As the lead admin of the website it is then your job to step up and be more active in this thread when your fellow staff members are away. Instead it feels like this thread is abandoned and you only pop in to say, "shame on you all! Back on topic!" When you decide things are a bit too messy.

I know that Gooseys previous posts have been reported and it wasn't until now that you've stepped in. You're busy, you have a life and a job and I get that - that's the reality for most people on this forum. So it's on you to figure out a work around then - add more staff, reach out to inactive staff and figure out if their hiatuses are simply a break or them actually stepping down.... because this thread has been going on for months and the only "active" staff I can think of are you, oblivia, and ladydestani. That's not a good ratio especially when there are some really serious problems waiting to be addressed.

 

[daringred_]

As if you didn’t harm another user and make them delete an entire post because of a homicidal vocal stim. Respectfully asking that you hop off, please. You keep making these sneak-dissing posts about me and now you’re calling me out again. Take some accountability that you made someone uncomfortable by your words and if you didn’t want that to happen then perhaps you should have phrased yourself more carefully in a public chat. You say maliciously stir drama. I say, bring to light the toxicity in that particular circle of people that makes regular TBT users afraid to post a dissenting opinion. The collectibles chat is a hotbed of toxicity, but you all are so deep in it you don’t even see it.

I apologize for the harm that I’ve caused you. I’ve decided to drop it. I’m not even in the collectibles chat anymore. Clearly we are not friends, but can you stop mentioning me? I swear like almost every post in this thread or the Gen AI thread has some reference to me either directly or indirectly. It’s giving obsessive, luv.

it was a private chat in the sense that it was offsite and that specific user wasn't in it. you and a second unknown user decided it would be funny to maliciously share around the message with context cropped out and completely mislabel the situation and falsify intent, harming not only me but also sheando. i've already spoken to them, ages ago, which is more than can be said for you, who just wants to stir drama as you admitted in this thread regarding this situation. "homicidal vocal stim" lmao maybe you should hop off, even now you continue to mischaracterize the situation because there was nothing homicidal about it as another user also explained in this thread, had you bothered to read instead of continuing to make things up.

i did take accountability in private which, again, is far more than can be said for you. that's between me and the other user and has nothing to do with you and your insistence on being malicious, causing drama, and being antagonistic towards people. i was in that discord maybe only a week before you lmao, and you actually did join to start toxicity and feign innocence about your first post in this thread, when your real intentions were clear from the get-go despite later backpedaling. can't be very deep in it when i was barely there longer than you and have never spoken to 90% of the people there smh.

you apologize, but i don't see an "i'm sorry" anywhere, just more antagonizing and uninformed shaming because heaven forbid you accept being wrong. i'm only mentioning you because a certain someone kept worshiping you in this thread, and because aerith also mentioned you. trust me, i wouldn't bother otherwise, i have you on /ignore for a reason. also, don't call strangers "luv." it's weird and patronizing, especially when you're trying to demonize me.

Hey all, let's please bring the thread back on topic, but more importantly, the insults/criticisms against other members need to stop.

i'd prefer to defend myself against thinly veiled groomer accusations and slander, thank you. you've only just removed an obvious troll, but given the lack of transparency around reports/warnings, another one is still here. isn't vague posting or posting in general about other users meant to be against the rules? so, how come gabby keeps getting to do both about a multitude of users just because they disagree with them and don't like that they call gabby out on repeated malicious behavior? would you do anything if i actually took the time to go back and locate and report those comments? or is this a tenuous rule that only applies to seliph, as one example? that's a topic i'd like addressed, frankly.

 

[Aerith]

Apologies for the additional response, and although I feel my previous words are adequate, it doesn’t feel great to not have the opportunity to defend myself a final time. I will make this my last post on the topic, and I accept any warning I might get about it, but I hope my post will be kept up. Also apologies for posting when it seems like there's a troll infestation, but I want to get this out so the issue can be laid to rest.
---

i'd prefer to defend myself against thinly veiled groomer accusations and slander, thank you.

In the time between I last posted, instead of reconsidering what I said, giving me the benefit of the doubt, or even just waiting for further clarification, you have put words in my mouth multiple times. I don't appreciate that, and it hurts my feelings.

Being friends generally implies a degree of charitableness. Before this discussion, I also thought of you fondly. Despite me taking precautions to ensure I don’t upset you, and stating my intentions, it still happened. I’ve offered proof twice on statements you were wrong about (that I’m unable to speak to you directly and that I think you’re a groomer), but you have acknowledged neither, and remain angry towards me.

We cannot have a productive discussion if you are actively choosing to ignore my words:

You’re totally right that not all adult-minor interactions are bad and some can even be healing.

I’m not insinuating you’ve said something inappropriate,

It's great that you had a positive experience with adults as a minor and I'm happy that you can pass that onto others who need it. I don't want people to assume the bad in everyone, and I am grateful for your efforts.

I guess, I’m less responding directly to you, and more addressing any minors that happen to be reading.

As I said in my post: I wasn't insinuating you were saying something bad.

I did not call you a groomer nor did I imply that about you. I’m going to explain my thought process, but I won’t be directly quoting here; I will be paraphrasing and summarizing -

Before my initial post, I observed Goose being overly protective in the style of a ‘the internet is new and I have no idea what’s going on but I don’t want my kids to get hurt’ parent. Then I observed you saying, “No, actually, adult-minor friendships can be a positive force for neglected minors.” And I thought, this conversation needs way more nuance than just these two positions. It doesn’t make either of you wrong or bad for what you said. I was not scolding either of you for not bringing up what I brought up.

I knew you would get upset with people not directly speaking to you in the past, so I did what I thought you would want - I quoted you when I chose to discuss the same subject matter. Then, mid-train of thought, I corrected myself with, "I guess this doesn't really involve you, it's just what you said prompted me to think about it and say it, in case any minors here were like me and hadn't thought about it."

As someone who was abused as a minor, I wanted to add to the discussion because I’d rather feel like I voiced something that might help keep someone safe, than know that I absolutely didn’t help anyone by remaining silent. I quoted you because you were the person who spoke last and mentioned vulnerable minors in the first place. I didn’t quote you to pick a fight or to randomly insult you. I certainly didn't expect it to be controversial or cause an argument.

As a minor, I never imagined an adult I considered my friend would ever betray me, and it was difficult for me to see the manipulation because it was a slow and deliberate process. It was out of the scope of my imagination because they had been so kind to me. I feel no guilt or shame in reminding minors to be careful, especially when statistically, the most common predator is an adult the victim trusts.

I’m going to break down what I said further, because I’m not sure how else to get my point across:

I understand feeling upset over the assumption that people might think you're a groomer,

Might is the key word here. I didn’t say, “people think daringred_ is a groomer” and I didn’t say “I think you’re a groomer”. I said this because I assumed that, in a hypothetical scenario where someone would be skeptical of your bond, it would obviously hurt your feelings, and I was acknowledging that your feelings mattered.

but in my personal opinion, it's better that people be cautious when it comes to minor-adult interactions, than just assume it's wholesome.

I don’t know why this is a hot take. I really don’t. The collective safety of minors is more important than an individual’s feelings. I’d rather have someone be skeptical of me and me have to jump through hoops to prove myself, than a child not have any adult around them who cares enough to make sure nothing bad is happening to them.
I am not going to change my stance that healthy skepticism is better than apathy. Ideally, nobody gives anyone a reason for them to be skeptical in the first place, but if I have to choose between the two, I’d rather the safer option that gives predators less access to vulnerable minors.
Nowhere did I say, “people are skeptical of your friendship,” nor did I say, “I am skeptical of your friendship.” I was not encouraging people to look into your friendship. I was talking generally about the possibility, and I wasn’t even talking fully at you. I was further elaborating on my position, because I’m allowed to add to the discussion that was being held.
I don’t know how you think, so the only thing I can surmise is that you’re feeling insulted because you’re unable to realize when I’m talking at you and when I’m talking generally. If that’s the case, it’s difficult to remedy if you don’t believe the person when they explain.

I have never advocated for a strict separation between the two.

Again, I don’t know where you’re getting this position where I think every adult is a potential groomer or that minors and adults shouldn’t interact ever. I think if I had this position, it would have come up earlier in the discussion about the forum’s intended audience. In fact, I recall mentioning in one of my big posts, talking about how I appreciated having adult friends on the forum I went to, since they helped shape me into the person I am today.

Re: Goose
Please read what I said. I never claimed people were harping on Goose for his English – I said to everyone that, if you want to engage with people who don’t communicate well, it’s necessary to be more patient. There was a lack of patience on several people’s parts (but not all – some of you were kind) and I wanted to remind everyone how difficult it is to speak in a third language. A lot of people aren’t used to dealing with someone who struggles to speak English and just talk like they normally do, and treat it like they would any other interaction, which isn’t fair.
When I perceive someone to be ganged up on, I act. This is known. I've literally done this for you. If Goose had said something like, "I hope humans lose their rights!" and got piled up on, then yeah, I'm not gonna run up to say, "Guys, maybe we should deescalate this convo." I'm gonna think, "Well, you dug your own grave there dude."

I’ve spent a lot of time around people who struggle with English and I don't feel bad for assuming the best in someone who hasn't done anything blatantly evil. I have a helper type of personality and I’m willing to give people multiple chances. If Goose was a troll, I still don’t regret the choice to give him the benefit of the doubt. I can be more cautious in the future, with the knowledge that the forum is prone to attacks, but with the information I had at the time, it was reasonable for me to assume Goose wasn’t.
Fearmongering is a strong word and an exaggeration of what happened here. To fearmonger is to exploit, to intentionally make people afraid for a purpose. Was his behavior unreasonable? Sure, it was overprotective, but it was not coming from a place to exploit the masses. It seemed to me he had a genuine concern for the safety of minors, and that’s not wrong, even if it is over-the-top.

Gabby has trolled in the past, but that doesn’t mean every post of theirs is automatically trolling, which is something they’ve also admitted. They said something I thought had merit and that I thought was intelligently and empathetically written. I don’t believe Gabby would have said that if it didn’t come from a point of sincere concern. You don’t have to like someone to acknowledge they have a good point. If I agree with someone whom I don’t personally care for, I’m not going to suddenly dismiss what they’re saying in order to not be “on the same side”. I never commanded anyone to un-ignore Gabby if they have them ignored. Not everyone does however, and not everyone is unwilling to reconsider their position.

I have opinions and I say them. If I feel like there is a conflict between two sides, sometimes I try to mediate because that is, in my experience, the most effective way to reaching a solution. I’d rather try and fail, than watch helplessly as people talk over each other and nothing get resolved. I do not want to yell, assume the worst, or dominate to get my point across, because I have been that way in the past, and it was not only significantly less effective, but I didn’t feel like a good person doing it, even if I did it for the right reasons. When I have the time to choose my words, I’m going to do that (at least when the discussion has turned Very Serious, otherwise I'm obnoxious as usual). Of course, how I choose to express myself or solve problems doesn’t always work out, but nothing is infallible, so it's still the right way for me.

Accusing or even implying someone is a groomer is a serious claim and not one I would give out lightly. It needs to have weight so that the accusations can be addressed swiftly. If you think I am too neutral of a person, then why would I casually call you something so heinous, that is the very OPPOSITE of neutral, unprovoked? None of this makes any sense, especially as a survivor.

If I thought you were a groomer, why would I express gratitude for helping a vulnerable girl, and imply you’re a good person for doing so?

If I thought you were a groomer, we would not be having a polite discussion - or even a conversation at all. I would be using my efforts to get you away from vulnerable people.

You’ve insulted me by calling me dense, but it has taken several posts to reiterate why I haven’t insulted you, and you still are ignoring my words, choosing to believe what you assumed in the first place. If you’re going to dislike me, I’d appreciate you simply disliking me and not misrepresenting my words, because that is actively harmful.

I can apologize for you feeling bad, because I never intended for you to ruminate and be stuck thinking negatively for hours. That's a horrible feeling. But I won't apologize for you misreading what I said, and choosing to believe a falsehood after I've clarified multiple times.

The only way I can think to prevent this from happening again is to just not engage with you in the future, even when we’re a part of the same discussion. I'd rather be accused of being non-confrontational than be accused of that and something I never said, especially when I actively took precautions against misunderstandings out of consideration for your feelings.

I didn’t mention this earlier, since I believed you were just hurt yourself, and that it was a simple misunderstanding we could solve together. But you hurt me when you suggested my experience was an outlier. It felt dismissive, not just of what I went through, but of how common child abuse is.
The only reason I shared this publicly was to offer more personal proof to minors that this does happen, and it happened to me. It’s easy for people to dismiss risks when they’ve never experienced them or known someone who has. Sharing my experience also opens the door to letting others know they can reach out if they need someone to talk to.

My DMs are open, but until you acknowledge I didn’t say what you said, I don’t want to continue having this discussion. And as a precaution, if someone else wants to continue this conversation, I’d appreciate you also keeping it to DMs. I really didn’t expect what I said to be more than a one-off mention, and I feel uncomfortable continuing to discuss what happened to me publicly.

 

[daringred_]

i'm not going to read previous replies in depth, because recent events in this thread have put me in a very dark headspace, which is probably what some people here want, and the staff have done nothing but mishandle it. still, i think i deserve to say my piece, even if it gets deleted.

stop spreading misinformation about me. stop making false accusations and misinterpretations about me. stop harassing me.

nowhere have i said that child abuse and/or grooming are rare experiences, shouldn't be taken seriously or are outlier events. i myself am a victim of child abuse, grooming and repeated bullying, online and offline, that has now extended to even this website of all places, but nowhere did i force anyone into sharing their trauma or drag it out of them, so i will spare you the details of all mine. it won't help, and given the bias on this site, i will probably face repercussions for daring to share it if anyone were to believe me anyway.

the inaction towards what happened last night is appalling. i refuse to let it be swept quietly under the rug. you know full well i saw the posts and account, because you also deleted my post asking you to handle it after an hour. (and even that was after someone had to DM you offsite.) i still have the screenshots. where is the post telling people to stop being vile, ableist and blatantly homophobic towards me? you could manage one for people rightfully calling trolls by that moniker, but not this? those posts were up long enough for plenty of others to see them. this wasn't just a regular troll, this was full-on targeted harassment mocking me, all the way down to the account name, but there's been no public address of it or private acknowledgement/apology. furthermore, if mods are so neutral and unbiased, why was ladydestani out here appearing to choose sides in an issue between users and supporting misinterpretations of my words/views? not to mention doing so while a now-deleted post continuing the harassment towards me was still up. you couldn't delete, edit or respond to that? was showing your bias just more important at the time?

do better. the real life consequences of all this have already been bad, but they could've been a lot worse had this happened to me even just a few weeks ago. think about that for once.