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Nintendo 3DS Release Date and Price Revealed!

Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
fantanoice said:
Wait, so it's confirmed that the GB games with be 3D? :O

If so... I can't wait to play the LoZ Oracles in 3D... *squee*
no.

that post was shot down after whoever posted it got their hopes up.

that would be nice for nintendo to try and do.. but won't happen. :(
What? No, it's been confirmed that you'll be able to play Game Boy games in 3D. It's just a matter of which Game Boy games, because they're only doing it for certain ones. So far, Super Mario Land and The Legend of Zelda: ]link, plz?

would love to play a few of them in 3d. does that mean that you'll have to buy them on the VC to play them in 3d, though? (don't remember if there's a gba slot on the 3ds)

only thing is.. how do you make a 2d/pixel art game into 3d..
 
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
fantanoice said:
Wait, so it's confirmed that the GB games with be 3D? :O

If so... I can't wait to play the LoZ Oracles in 3D... *squee*
no.

that post was shot down after whoever posted it got their hopes up.

that would be nice for nintendo to try and do.. but won't happen. :(
What? No, it's been confirmed that you'll be able to play Game Boy games in 3D. It's just a matter of which Game Boy games, because they're only doing it for certain ones. So far, Super Mario Land and The Legend of Zelda: ]link, plz?

would love to play a few of them in 3d. does that mean that you'll have to buy them on the VC to play them in 3d, though? (don't remember if there's a gba slot on the 3ds)

only thing is.. how do you make a 2d/pixel art game into 3d..
I read it on GoNintendo awhile back... I'll try to find it again, but I doubt I'll be able to. Anyways, no, there is no Game Boy Advance slot, and yes, you would have to download it for Virtual Console. And I think you were thinking of Game Boy Advance games, not Game Boy and Game Boy Color games, because GBA games haven't been confirmed for Virtual Console. (They haven't been disconfirmed, either, though.)

EDIT: Found it: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=137676
 
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
What? No, it's been confirmed that you'll be able to play Game Boy games in 3D. It's just a matter of which Game Boy games, because they're only doing it for certain ones. So far, Super Mario Land and The Legend of Zelda: ]link, plz?

would love to play a few of them in 3d. does that mean that you'll have to buy them on the VC to play them in 3d, though? (don't remember if there's a gba slot on the 3ds)

only thing is.. how do you make a 2d/pixel art game into 3d..
I read it on GoNintendo awhile back... I'll try to find it again, but I doubt I'll be able to. Anyways, no, there is no Game Boy Advance slot, and yes, you would have to download it for Virtual Console. And I think you were thinking of Game Boy Advance games, not Game Boy and Game Boy Color games, because GBA games haven't been confirmed for Virtual Console. (They haven't been disconfirmed, either, though.)

EDIT: Found it: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=137676
... no, i wasn't thinking about gba games, i was thinking about all game boy games, including advance, regular, color.

I hate that there isn't a gba slot, now. :/ what are the specs it was taking up on the lite/original ds? money choice, or space/size? I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so if i could play my box of gba/game boy carts i have lying around :/

and thanks for the link, will read after i eat
 
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepwhich Game Boy games, because they're only doing it for certain ones. So far, Super Mario Land and The Legend of Zelda: ]link, plz?

would love to play a few of them in 3d. does that mean that you'll have to buy them on the VC to play them in 3d, though? (don't remember if there's a gba slot on the 3ds)

only thing is.. how do you make a 2d/pixel art game into 3d..
I read it on GoNintendo awhile back... I'll try to find it again, but I doubt I'll be able to. Anyways, no, there is no Game Boy Advance slot, and yes, you would have to download it for Virtual Console. And I think you were thinking of Game Boy Advance games, not Game Boy and Game Boy Color games, because GBA games haven't been confirmed for Virtual Console. (They haven't been disconfirmed, either, though.)

EDIT: Found it: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=137676
... no, i wasn't thinking about gba games, i was thinking about all game boy games, including advance, regular, color.

I hate that there isn't a gba slot, now. :/ what are the specs it was taking up on the lite/original ds? money choice, or space/size? I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so if i could play my box of gba/game boy carts i have lying around :/

and thanks for the link, will read after i eat
You know, you can just play your Game Boy Advance games on a Game Boy Advance, Game Boy Advance SP, Game Boy micro, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, or even Game Boy Player for GameCube, right? When I want to play GBA games, I just use my Game Boy micro. And there might even be GBA games on the 3DS's Virtual Console, so don't act like you'll never be able to play GBA games again. >_>
 
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepwhich
I read it on GoNintendo awhile back... I'll try to find it again, but I doubt I'll be able to. Anyways, no, there is no Game Boy Advance slot, and yes, you would have to download it for Virtual Console. And I think you were thinking of Game Boy Advance games, not Game Boy and Game Boy Color games, because GBA games haven't been confirmed for Virtual Console. (They haven't been disconfirmed, either, though.)

EDIT: Found it: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=137676
... no, i wasn't thinking about gba games, i was thinking about all game boy games, including advance, regular, color.

I hate that there isn't a gba slot, now. :/ what are the specs it was taking up on the lite/original ds? money choice, or space/size? I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so if i could play my box of gba/game boy carts i have lying around :/

and thanks for the ]You know, you can just play your Game Boy Advance games on a Game Boy Advance, Game Boy Advance SP, Game Boy micro, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, or even Game Boy Player for GameCube, right? When I want to play GBA games, I just use my Game Boy micro. And there might even be GBA games on the 3DS's Virtual Console, so don't act like you'll never be able to play GBA games again. >_>
but if one handheld can do both things, why would i want to carry around two?

sure, i have my gba sp in a drawer (don't know exactly where right now) for when i want to play four swords, but it would be nice to have that option, since we had it with the original ds/the lite.

I'm not acting like i'll never be able to play gba games again, don't take what i said out of proportion. I said I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so, if i could play my gba/game boy games i have lying around. (especially instead of buying them, again)

I keep my game boy micro with me more than i do my ds, but if I could play DS games along with game boy games on a slightly bigger handheld, that would be great, instead of having to carry around two systems if/when i want to take it somewhere.

true, i'm not going to need a box of game boy games and the ability to play 3/ds games at the same time, but one good gba game and one good ds game would be able to quench any on-the-go gaming urge, i'm sure, even if it was just pokemon and a gba castlevania, or phoenix wright and golden sun.

I have a game boy player somewhere, not with me right now. that isn't the point i'm trying to make. the point is, if you're on-the-go, not home, where handhelds are MEANT to be able to go, having two systems to play two games isn't as convenient as one system that can play two games. which was a very nice point for the DS/lite.

don't take my wording out of proportion.
 
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepwhichhaven't been confirmed for Virtual Console. (They haven't been disconfirmed, either, though.)

EDIT: Found it: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=137676
... no, i wasn't thinking about gba games, i was thinking about all game boy games, including advance, regular, color.

I hate that there isn't a gba slot, now. :/ what are the specs it was taking up on the lite/original ds? money choice, or space/size? I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so if i could play my box of gba/game boy carts i have lying around :/

and thanks for the ]You know, you can just play your Game Boy Advance games on a Game Boy Advance, Game Boy Advance SP, Game Boy micro, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, or even Game Boy Player for GameCube, right? When I want to play GBA games, I just use my Game Boy micro. And there might even be GBA games on the 3DS's Virtual Console, so don't act like you'll never be able to play GBA games again. >_>
but if one handheld can do both things, why would i want to carry around two?

sure, i have my gba sp in a drawer (don't know exactly where right now) for when i want to play four swords, but it would be nice to have that option, since we had it with the original ds/the lite.

I'm not acting like i'll never be able to play gba games again, don't take what i said out of proportion. I said I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so, if i could play my gba/game boy games i have lying around. (especially instead of buying them, again)

I keep my game boy micro with me more than i do my ds, but if I could play DS games along with game boy games on a slightly bigger handheld, that would be great, instead of having to carry around two systems if/when i want to take it somewhere.

true, i'm not going to need a box of game boy games and the ability to play 3/ds games at the same time, but one good gba game and one good ds game would be able to quench any on-the-go gaming urge, i'm sure, even if it was just pokemon and a gba castlevania, or phoenix wright and golden sun.

I have a game boy player somewhere, not with me right now. that isn't the point i'm trying to make. the point is, if you're on-the-go, not home, where handhelds are MEANT to be able to go, having two systems to play two games isn't as convenient as one system that can play two games. which was a very nice point for the DS/lite.

don't take my wording out of proportion.
If you really want to play GBA games and 3DS games on the same system, then just download some GBA games if/when they're available on the 3DS's Virtual Console. Problem solved. But carrying around a teeny, tiny Game Boy micro along with your 3DS really isn't that big of a deal. That thing is so small, there's really no reason to complain about having to carry it with you.

And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
 
Looks good, but I probably won't get it unless it gets rave reviews, that's a lot of money for a portable console.

Also I lol'd when I saw the video Conor posted, surely they could have given us a bit of a better clip of AC, all he does is walk around under the apple trees P:
 
the games i am going to get first are pokemon white,(im getting pokemon black for christmas in japenese)the new Mario Kart,Legend of Zelda OoT,and i will try my first Metal Gear game on the 3ds yay
 
williamd said:
the games i am going to get first are pokemon white,(im getting pokemon black for christmas in japenese)the new Mario Kart,Legend of Zelda OoT,and i will try my first Metal Gear game on the 3ds yay
>Assuming that they'll all come out on the release date of the system.
 
Tyeforce said:
And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
but what was it removed for? what was so important and so innovative that the GBA slot had to go entirely?
 
//RUN.exe said:
Tyeforce said:
And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
but what was it removed for? what was so important and so innovative that the GBA slot had to go entirely?
Air. They value it highly.
 
//RUN.exe said:
Tyeforce said:
And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
but what was it removed for? what was so important and so innovative that the GBA slot had to go entirely?
For the space? With as powerful as the 3DS is, I'm sure every inch of it is crammed with stuff. Sure, they could have made it bigger and added the GBA slot, but which direction is more practical? Making it more compact, something that is better for everyone, or sacrificing size for GBA compatibility, which only a small fraction of people are going to make use of?
 
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
but if one handheld can do both things, why would i want to carry around two?

sure, i have my gba sp in a drawer (don't know exactly where right now) for when i want to play four swords, but it would be nice to have that option, since we had it with the original ds/the lite.

I'm not acting like i'll never be able to play gba games again, don't take what i said out of proportion. I said I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so, if i could play my gba/game boy games i have lying around. (especially instead of buying them, again)

I keep my game boy micro with me more than i do my ds, but if I could play DS games along with game boy games on a slightly bigger handheld, that would be great, instead of having to carry around two systems if/when i want to take it somewhere.

true, i'm not going to need a box of game boy games and the ability to play 3/ds games at the same time, but one good gba game and one good ds game would be able to quench any on-the-go gaming urge, i'm sure, even if it was just pokemon and a gba castlevania, or phoenix wright and golden sun.

I have a game boy player somewhere, not with me right now. that isn't the point i'm trying to make. the point is, if you're on-the-go, not home, where handhelds are MEANT to be able to go, having two systems to play two games isn't as convenient as one system that can play two games. which was a very nice point for the DS/lite.

don't take my wording out of proportion.
If you really want to play GBA games and 3DS games on the same system, then just download some GBA games if/when they're available on the 3DS's Virtual Console. Problem solved. But carrying around a teeny, tiny Game Boy micro along with your 3DS really isn't that big of a deal. That thing is so small, there's really no reason to complain about having to carry it with you.

And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
right. because every game boy advance game that i own is going to be available (within a reasonable amount of time, let's say a year for starters) at a reasonable price on the virtual console. the virtual console on the wii is still missing plenty, which is to be expected, since there's so many damn games in nintendo's library. same goes with nintendo's handheld.

telling me to re-buy all of the games i already own is BS, since there's no real given reason why the slot is taken away, other than the GBA is now phased out, and it takes up an extra X amount of space.

when i needed to go somewhere, i took my micro and my ds lite with me, simply because of the awkwardness of the lite, and the my L button on the lite being busted, more or less. carrying the game boy micro isn't a problem, it's carrying and keeping up with both of them. if you don't have a bag of some sort, you're left with pockets. I would go so far as to say many people have plenty of things in their pockets, already. a cell phone, keys, a wallet, and sometimes other things such as an mp3 player occupy enough space as it is. having two systems, regardless of how small one of them is (it's tiny, but it's still noticeable) not only looks awkward, but it feels awkward, if you keep the systems in the same pocket/stacked. skinny jeans makes pocket space more valuable, if the person wears said jeans.

the point is that the slot, while old/outdated/no longer necessary (beyond gen 4 pokemon, lol), is still a very nice feature to have on the system, which was removed with little explanation. they had to make room for the flash memory? a small SD slot could have been bundled with the system, or a series of advertisements could easily have been put in place. hell, even a small "if you use an SD card (sold separately) you can download DSiWare to play any time you want!"

of course, this wouldn't be fully consumer-friendly, and available ready to go right out of the box, but i doubt the person buying it would have to go to another store, if they're buying an game system in the first place. gamestop might be the exception, but by now, (as i'm not sure) they might be selling smaller SD cards themselves, though at a jacked up price.

the last paragraph is an awful way to rationalize the *censored.2.0*ty move nintendo made.
by saying "honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis?" you're basically disproving the entire plot of the virtual console, which is to download old games to play when you want. how many people still play gba games on a regular basis? how many people will buy/play virtual console gba games on a regular basis.

there are so many gems on the gba, saying that is hardly acceptable. I can still go to a gamestop and pick up a used gba game I haven't played for <$15, and enjoy it fully, so long as it isn't one of those barbie goes to the castle games, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. case and point: castlevania circle of the moon, and the golden sun series. both are under $15, one of the golden suns (probably the first) is the one that's around $15. others are lower, at my local one.

unless nintendo re-does their game boy games to make them in 3-d that looks and feels right, it's (the virtual console re-releasing said games) worthless.

the gba slot should still be implemented (unless nintendo was really taking a loss in putting it in there), because of both the gba games, and (now that i remember it) the few "expansion pack"s that the ds had. rumble pak, lol. it's always nice to be able to phase out an old system by saying the newer one does everything the old one can, plus some, as well.

YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID. YOU LOSE, SIR.
 
Marcus said:
Looks good, but I probably won't get it unless it gets rave reviews, that's a lot of money for a portable console.
Critics are already going crazy about it, calling it like magic. And the price really isn't unreasonable at all when you think about it. Yes, traditionally handheld systems have been cheaper than home consoles, but lately handhelds have been becoming more expensive. Why is that? Well, for one, handheld systems are more than just systems that play games. They're also their own display. When you buy a home console, it's not like they come with a TV to play them on, do they? Of course not. But the display is part of handheld systems, which is a big factor to the cost of the device. Throw in all the other features of the 3DS, and $250 isn't that bad at all.
 
Tyeforce said:
Marcus said:
Looks good, but I probably won't get it unless it gets rave reviews, that's a lot of money for a portable console.
Critics are already going crazy about it, calling it like magic. And the price really isn't unreasonable at all when you think about it. Yes, traditionally handheld systems have been cheaper than home consoles, but lately handhelds have been becoming more expensive. Why is that? Well, for one, handheld systems are more than just systems that play games. They're also their own display. When you buy a home console, it's not like they come with a TV to play them on, do they? Of course not. But the display is part of handheld systems, which is a big factor to the cost of the device. Throw in all the other features of the 3DS, and $250 isn't that bad at all.
that there is a screen in it can be said about literally every handheld to date.
what.

I'm not one to complain about the price, mind you, but that logic is.. what.
that it's a 3-d capable one, sure, but that there's a screen in the system.. that's just bs.
 
Tyeforce said:
//RUN.exe said:
Tyeforce said:
And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
but what was it removed for? what was so important and so innovative that the GBA slot had to go entirely?
For the space? With as powerful as the 3DS is, I'm sure every inch of it is crammed with stuff. Sure, they could have made it bigger and added the GBA slot, but which direction is more practical? Making it more compact, something that is better for everyone, or sacrificing size for GBA compatibility, which only a small fraction of people are going to make use of?
well okay I wasn't talking about the 3DS, more the DSi.

i also have to bring into question your argument that "small is better for everyone" when you've defended the DSi XL on several occasions.

i really don't mind the loss of the GBA slot. as you've said, i can just play on my SP or micro or whatever.
 
Psychonaut said:
Tyeforce said:
Psychonaut said:
but if one handheld can do both things, why would i want to carry around two?

sure, i have my gba sp in a drawer (don't know exactly where right now) for when i want to play four swords, but it would be nice to have that option, since we had it with the original ds/the lite.

I'm not acting like i'll never be able to play gba games again, don't take what i said out of proportion. I said I wouldn't mind an extra half inch or so, if i could play my gba/game boy games i have lying around. (especially instead of buying them, again)

I keep my game boy micro with me more than i do my ds, but if I could play DS games along with game boy games on a slightly bigger handheld, that would be great, instead of having to carry around two systems if/when i want to take it somewhere.

true, i'm not going to need a box of game boy games and the ability to play 3/ds games at the same time, but one good gba game and one good ds game would be able to quench any on-the-go gaming urge, i'm sure, even if it was just pokemon and a gba castlevania, or phoenix wright and golden sun.

I have a game boy player somewhere, not with me right now. that isn't the point i'm trying to make. the point is, if you're on-the-go, not home, where handhelds are MEANT to be able to go, having two systems to play two games isn't as convenient as one system that can play two games. which was a very nice point for the DS/lite.

don't take my wording out of proportion.
If you really want to play GBA games and 3DS games on the same system, then just download some GBA games if/when they're available on the 3DS's Virtual Console. Problem solved. But carrying around a teeny, tiny Game Boy micro along with your 3DS really isn't that big of a deal. That thing is so small, there's really no reason to complain about having to carry it with you.

And, yes, the DS and DS Lite's GBA slot was convenient and practical...at the time. Now it's not so practical, because, honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis? Not very many.
right. because every game boy advance game that i own is going to be available (within a reasonable amount of time, let's say a year for starters) at a reasonable price on the virtual console. the virtual console on the wii is still missing plenty, which is to be expected, since there's so many damn games in nintendo's library. same goes with nintendo's handheld.

telling me to re-buy all of the games i already own is BS, since there's no real given reason why the slot is taken away, other than the GBA is now phased out, and it takes up an extra X amount of space.

when i needed to go somewhere, i took my micro and my ds lite with me, simply because of the awkwardness of the lite, and the my L button on the lite being busted, more or less. carrying the game boy micro isn't a problem, it's carrying and keeping up with both of them. if you don't have a bag of some sort, you're left with pockets. I would go so far as to say many people have plenty of things in their pockets, already. a cell phone, keys, a wallet, and sometimes other things such as an mp3 player occupy enough space as it is. having two systems, regardless of how small one of them is (it's tiny, but it's still noticeable) not only looks awkward, but it feels awkward, if you keep the systems in the same pocket/stacked. skinny jeans makes pocket space more valuable, if the person wears said jeans.

the point is that the slot, while old/outdated/no longer necessary (beyond gen 4 pokemon, lol), is still a very nice feature to have on the system, which was removed with little explanation. they had to make room for the flash memory? a small SD slot could have been bundled with the system, or a series of advertisements could easily have been put in place. hell, even a small "if you use an SD card (sold separately) you can download DSiWare to play any time you want!"

of course, this wouldn't be fully consumer-friendly, and available ready to go right out of the box, but i doubt the person buying it would have to go to another store, if they're buying an game system in the first place. gamestop might be the exception, but by now, (as i'm not sure) they might be selling smaller SD cards themselves, though at a jacked up price.

the last paragraph is an awful way to rationalize the *censored.2.0*ty move nintendo made.
by saying "honestly, how many people still play GBA games on a regular basis?" you're basically disproving the entire plot of the virtual console, which is to download old games to play when you want. how many people still play gba games on a regular basis? how many people will buy/play virtual console gba games on a regular basis.

there are so many gems on the gba, saying that is hardly acceptable. I can still go to a gamestop and pick up a used gba game I haven't played for <$15, and enjoy it fully, so long as it isn't one of those barbie goes to the castle games, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. case and point: castlevania circle of the moon, and the golden sun series. both are under $15, one of the golden suns (probably the first) is the one that's around $15. others are lower, at my local one.

unless nintendo re-does their game boy games to make them in 3-d that looks and feels right, it's (the virtual console re-releasing said games) worthless.

the gba slot should still be implemented (unless nintendo was really taking a loss in putting it in there), because of both the gba games, and (now that i remember it) the few "expansion pack"s that the ds had. rumble pak, lol. it's always nice to be able to phase out an old system by saying the newer one does everything the old one can, plus some, as well.

YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID. YOU LOSE, SIR.
You're missing the point. I don't understand why people like you make such a big deal about the removal of the GBA slot. You don't see people freaking out because Nintendo didn't put a N64 slot on the Wii, do you? Of course not. Same thing when the original DS came out and it didn't support Game Boy and Game Boy Color games. I don't know why it's such a big deal to people all of a sudden, but you can't expect Nintendo, or any company, to continue to support physical backwards compatibility forever. Do you expect there to be a GBA slot in Nintendo's handheld three generations from now? There has to be a cut off point sometime. And, yes, it will be hard for some people, but you'll get over it.

And about repurchasing games on Virtual Console, I've done it plenty of times. It's nice to have both a physical and digital copy of a game. And as for the price being unreasonable, that's ridiculous. People will complain about Game Boy games costing $5 to download on Virtual Console, but if you try to buy the physical game nowadays, you'll be spending ten times that on eBay hunting down those old gems. And even if you don't want to or can't repurchase your GBA games, you can still play them on your existing systems. Do you honestly play your GBA games often enough to warrant carrying around a GBA/GBASP/GBm/DS/DSL all the time?

Sure, I like to play GBA games now and then, but in those cases I'll either just grab one of my DS Lites or my Game Boy micro if I'm at home, or if I'm on the go I'll just bring my Game Boy micro with me in my pocket. I have plenty of room in my pockets, even with everything I carry. I can fit my iPhone and Game Boy micro in one pocket, my DSi XL in the other, and my wallet is always in my back pocket. And if I am planning on taking my Game Boy micro with me to play a GBA game, I'm probably not going to be playing any DS games, so I might as well leave my DSi XL at home.
 
Psychonaut said:
Bacon Boy said:
Arguing over whether or not the GBA slot is needed/wanted will not put one in the 3DS.
umad?

/what's your point?
How am I mad?
It just seems childish that you two are arguing over something that won't affect anyone. There's not personal opinions or anything that can be changed as an outcome. It'll just be another "Tye vs." argument where everyone just tries to evoke anger from him.
 
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