Debate: Vaccines

[Sanaki]

I'd get a vaccine for diseases that kill most of the people that come in contact with it, but for the others, no thank you.

So you'd rather get the real thing? But you're probably not old enough to understand.

 

[DarkOnyx]

So you'd rather get the real thing? But you're probably not old enough to understand.

Okay, that's fine.

 

[Alienfish]

This exactly. Like do people really think doctors are going to deliberately try and harm you with vaccines? It's depressing, so much work has gone into vaccines, they've been tested and proven to work yet people still believe the propaganda of wackos over people with actual medical and science training

Also, fun fact: as part of my degree we have to learn research studies and be able to evaluate and analyse research papers. Andrew Wakefield's paper was given to us to study as an example of BAD research

Yeah.. people are more likely to turn to attention seekers than facts.

 

[matthevvv]

if you don't vaccinate your kids, you are an utter idiot. plain and simple.

 

[Brackets]

I'd get a vaccine for diseases that kill most of the people that come in contact with it, but for the others, no thank you.

So wait. Are you vaccinated or not then?

And you're only fearing it because you don't undestand. It's like when they developed the smallpox vaccines from cows and they thought it would turn you into cows. If you knew how vaccines work you'd know they're not dangerous.

 

[Stalfos]

I was vaccinated for the more serious diseases, and that's fine - people really shouldn't take the risk when it comes to those. But I'm glad I didn't take the Pandemrix-vaccine for the swine flu that caused some people to get narcolepsy. Bunch of clowns putting out an untested vaccine like that.

Not that I would have taken it anyway. You don't need to vaccinate for every little thing, you know?

 

[Brackets]

I was vaccinated for the more serious diseases, and that's fine - people really shouldn't take the risk when it comes to those. But I'm glad I didn't take the Pandemrix-vaccine for the swine flu that caused some people to get narcolepsy. Bunch of clowns putting out an untested vaccine like that.

Not that I would have taken it anyway. You don't need to vaccinate for every little thing, you know?

Flu vaccines are usually only offered to people in high-risk groups though, to be fair. Well at least in my country you only get the vaccine for free if you're in a high risk group - you can pay if you really want it haha. I've seen so many people say 'lol why vaccinate for flu it's just flu innit' but in more susceptible groups it can be deadly. I get flu vaccine every year because if I got flu I would quite likely be hospitalised.

 

[RiceBunny]

Most vaccines are important, specially the ones you get when young. It's also important to know "what" is inside those vaccines though. There might be certain unnecessary harmful chemicals in the vaccine, that you might not want in your body. I think there's a middle ground for everything. People should stop being stupid, and get vaccinated. However, we also need to make sure we know what is in the vaccines. Being "cheap" when it comes to vaccines isn't going to help anyone. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of pharmaceutical companies do in general.
Humans need to stop blindly following like sheep. "Oh I need this vaccine?! Ok doctor, whatever you say!" No! Ask questions. Ask what is in it, then go home and do your research on it. Be well informed and expect your doctor to be well informed as well. A doctor that doesn't know what is inside what he's giving you, isn't a doctor you want to keep seeing. This doesn't just apply to vaccines, it applies to everything.
We're bred since kids to just "trust" doctors and what they say. That seriously needs to stop. Doctors are humans too, and unfortunately they don't always keep up to date with everything. They don't always know what is best. It's up to the individual to seek knowledge and hear different opinions.

Also, flu vaccines are a joke. The only time I ever got sick from the flu was when my mother forced me to get vaccinated. I haven't been vaccinated since, and haven't gotten sick since. She also stopped getting sick once she stopped getting flu shots(I convinced her). I rather take my chances on that one.

 

[Brackets]

Most vaccines are important, specially the ones you get when young. It's also important to know "what" is inside those vaccines though. There might be certain unnecessary harmful chemicals in the vaccine, that you might not want in your body. I think there's a middle ground for everything. People should stop being stupid, and get vaccinated. However, we also need to make sure we know what is in the vaccines. Being "cheap" when it comes to vaccines isn't going to help anyone. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of pharmaceutical companies do in general.
Humans need to stop blindly following like sheep. "Oh I need this vaccine?! Ok doctor, whatever you say!" No! Ask questions. Ask what is in it, then go home and do your research on it. Be well informed and expect your doctor to be well informed as well. A doctor that doesn't know what is inside what he's giving you, isn't a doctor you want to keep seeing. This doesn't just apply to vaccines, it applies to everything.
We're bred since kids to just "trust" doctors and what they say. That seriously needs to stop. Doctors are humans too, and unfortunately they don't always keep up to date with everything. They don't always know what is best. It's up to the individual to seek knowledge and hear different opinions.

Also, flu vaccines are a joke. The only time I ever got sick from the flu was when my mother forced me to get vaccinated. I haven't been vaccinated since, and haven't gotten sick since. She also stopped getting sick once she stopped getting flu shots(I convinced her). I rather take my chances on that one.

This is the problem with today's society. Because people have access to the internet, they think their own pitiful research (most likely on non-reliable sites) will make them better informed than doctors, scientists, and researchers - all the people who are qualified to actually do this ****. There are people out there who don't just look at research on the internet, they actually CARRY OUT research and see which vaccines/drugs/whatever are best. It's their JOB. That is then fed back to whatever your country's medical council is, and they make guidelines and inform the doctors on what to use. If you really expect doctors to remember exactly what is in every drug and vaccine, you are having a laugh, they have SO much to remember already. That is what the scientists and researchers are for. If there was a major problem with a drug/vaccine, it would be picked up, especially after years of it being in use. And side-effects/dangers HAVE been picked up before. And they admit to it, and change it, because surprisingly enough, doctors and researchers don't have some secret mission to kill and harm people.

Yes, doctors make mistakes, I've seen it enough times. But by giving the wrong diagnosis, etc. But you can't expect them to thoroughly research every drug - that is SOMEONE ELSE's job. But the vaccines are well researched. The 'chemicals' you talk about are at nowhere near high enough concentration to be harmful, don't worry.

And see my above comment for flu jabs.

 

[RiceBunny]

This is the problem with today's society. Because people have access to the internet, they think their own pitiful research (most likely on non-reliable sites) will make them better informed than doctors, scientists, and researchers - all the people who are qualified to actually do this ****. There are people out there who don't just look at research on the internet, they actually CARRY OUT research and see which vaccines/drugs/whatever are best. It's their JOB. That is then fed back to whatever your country's medical council is, and they make guidelines and inform the doctors on what to use. If you really expect doctors to remember exactly what is in every drug and vaccine, you are having a laugh, they have SO much to remember already. That is what the scientists and researchers are for. If there was a major problem with a drug/vaccine, it would be picked up, especially after years of it being in use. And side-effects/dangers HAVE been picked up before. And they admit to it, and change it, because surprisingly enough, doctors and researchers don't have some secret mission to kill and harm people.

Yes, doctors make mistakes, I've seen it enough times. But by giving the wrong diagnosis, etc. But you can't expect them to thoroughly research every drug - that is SOMEONE ELSE's job. But the vaccines are well researched. The 'chemicals' you talk about are at nowhere near high enough concentration to be harmful, don't worry.

And see my above comment for flu jabs.

I'm only going to reply to you once. Yes, I do expect my doctor to know what is inside the vaccine he's trying to push me. He's a DOCTOR. He's not some mindless robot that has one single task. I never said people should do research and stop there. They should do their research from reputable sources and get back to their doctors with it. Communication between a doctor and a patient is important, and should be encouraged. Also, I'll have you know a lot of people publish their researches, specially online nowadays. Doctors should be expected to always keep to date on latest researches and methods. I've seen a lot of doctors being presented with new methods by their patients, and that's a sad sign that doctors aren't doing the best they can. If a patient has to direct you to the latest methods being used, or the latest research on certain medicines, then you're failing at your job. You don't understand that a lot of doctors nowadays just care about money, and see their profession as simply that, just a job. I'm not going to go into it, because it's a whole different subject altogether. However, doctors going into the field for money creates doctors that are lazy and only do the bare minimum. They'll be just like you said- they'll wait for others to tell them what the new minimum is. Instead they should be encouraged more to be innovative and always be up to date.

Another thing. You don't know what "chemicals" I'm talking about, so don't sit there and say "they're safe". We could go into specifics and which ones are actually harmful and shouldn't be in vaccines, but that would turn into a long debate. This isn't the place for that. Humans shouldn't be guinea pigs where the industry can push out a somewhat safe vaccine, and then see how it goes from there. Yes humans are different and will react to certain drugs differently. But they should already take that into account before even pushing it out. If drugs/vaccines are having to be pulled back for "revision", then they have failed. It's that simple. I never said they're the devils. I said they need to do better. We all need to do better.

I'm speaking from experience here. I had to go through 7 different doctors before I finally found one that could properly help me with my PCOS. The last one finally was up to date, and knew that pushing birth control on me wasn't going to help. Matter of fact having me on birth control was going to make it worse. It DID make it worse, but I was told by others I had no choice. Now my symptoms are barely there, if even there at all. There's no cure yet, but at least it's being properly managed.

Disclaimer: I trust the MHRA(UK), but don't trust the FDA(US). The FDA is known for pushing things through if their "palms" are greased up a bit, if you catch my drift. Then **** hits the fan and lawsuits happen. So for the sake of this argument, what country you're from actually matters.

 

[Brackets]

I'm only going to reply to you once. Yes, I do expect my doctor to know what is inside the vaccine he's trying to push me. He's a DOCTOR. He's not some mindless robot that has one single task. I never said people should do research and stop there. They should do their research from reputable sources and get back to their doctors with it. Communication between a doctor and a patient is important, and should be encouraged. Also, I'll have you know a lot of people publish their researches, specially online nowadays. Doctors should be expected to always keep to date on latest researches and methods. I've seen a lot of doctors being presented with new methods by their patients, and that's a sad sign that doctors aren't doing the best they can. If a patient has to direct you to the latest methods being used, or the latest research on certain medicines, then you're failing at your job. You don't understand that a lot of doctors nowadays just care about money, and see their profession as simply that, just a job. I'm not going to go into it, because it's a whole different subject altogether. However, doctors going into the field for money creates doctors that are lazy and only do the bare minimum. They'll be just like you said- they'll wait for others to tell them what the new minimum is. Instead they should be encouraged more to be innovative and always be up to date.

Another thing. You don't know what "chemicals" I'm talking about, so don't sit there and say "they're safe". We could go into specifics and which ones are actually harmful and shouldn't be in vaccines, but that would turn into a long debate. This isn't the place for that. Humans shouldn't be guinea pigs where the industry can push out a somewhat safe vaccine, and then see how it goes from there. Yes humans are different and will react to certain drugs differently. But they should already take that into account before even pushing it out. If drugs/vaccines are having to be pulled back for "revision", then they have failed. It's that simple. I never said they're the devils. I said they need to do better. We all need to do better.

I'm speaking from experience here. I had to go through 7 different doctors before I finally found one that could properly help me with my PCOS. The last one finally was up to date, and knew that pushing birth control on me wasn't going to help. Matter of fact having me on birth control was going to make it worse. It DID make it worse, but I was told by others I had no choice. Now my symptoms are barely there, if even there at all. There's no cure yet, but at least it's being properly managed.

Disclaimer: I trust the MHRA(UK), but don't trust the FDA(US). The FDA is known for pushing things through if their "palms" are greased up a bit, if you catch my drift. Then **** hits the fan and lawsuits happen. So for the sake of this argument, what country you're from actually matters.

Er I KNOW research articles are online, but most of the general public don't know how to analyse them and actually see if they're good research. Researchers who spend their entire LIVES doing it will know better than you.
I'm a medical student and yes doctors should be kept up to date, obviously - but we have to learn hundreds of medications and it is simply NOT POSSIBLE to read all the latest articles on each one. If something major happens, like a drug is no longer suitable with a certain condition or a new side effect is found, blah blah blah, yes, the doctor should know that. But the tiny specifics and what is in each drug or vaccine? No. I assume you are talking about GPs here, and since they have to have such a broad knowledge of medicine you can't expect them to know the details on EVERYTHING.

Trials are always carried out before a drug or vaccine is released, so no, humans aren't guinea pigs, but sometimes things can go wrong and people are getting better at it.

I'm not saying doctors or researchers are perfect, and yes it's good not to follow them blindly, and yes certainly doctors have money interests especially america, which is why I'm glad I'm british, but seriously, if there is something wrong with a vaccine it is NOT going to be some random person like you derping about on the internet who finds it. There is NO evidence to show that today's current vaccines are particularly harmful - if there was, they would be removed. Simple.

 

[EpicGamer12]

I'm only going to reply to you once. Yes, I do expect my doctor to know what is inside the vaccine he's trying to push me. He's a DOCTOR. He's not some mindless robot that has one single task. I never said people should do research and stop there. They should do their research from reputable sources and get back to their doctors with it. Communication between a doctor and a patient is important, and should be encouraged. Also, I'll have you know a lot of people publish their researches, specially online nowadays. Doctors should be expected to always keep to date on latest researches and methods. I've seen a lot of doctors being presented with new methods by their patients, and that's a sad sign that doctors aren't doing the best they can. If a patient has to direct you to the latest methods being used, or the latest research on certain medicines, then you're failing at your job. You don't understand that a lot of doctors nowadays just care about money, and see their profession as simply that, just a job. I'm not going to go into it, because it's a whole different subject altogether. However, doctors going into the field for money creates doctors that are lazy and only do the bare minimum. They'll be just like you said- they'll wait for others to tell them what the new minimum is. Instead they should be encouraged more to be innovative and always be up to date.

Another thing. You don't know what "chemicals" I'm talking about, so don't sit there and say "they're safe". We could go into specifics and which ones are actually harmful and shouldn't be in vaccines, but that would turn into a long debate. This isn't the place for that. Humans shouldn't be guinea pigs where the industry can push out a somewhat safe vaccine, and then see how it goes from there. Yes humans are different and will react to certain drugs differently. But they should already take that into account before even pushing it out. If drugs/vaccines are having to be pulled back for "revision", then they have failed. It's that simple. I never said they're the devils. I said they need to do better. We all need to do better.

I'm speaking from experience here. I had to go through 7 different doctors before I finally found one that could properly help me with my PCOS. The last one finally was up to date, and knew that pushing birth control on me wasn't going to help. Matter of fact having me on birth control was going to make it worse. It DID make it worse, but I was told by others I had no choice. Now my symptoms are barely there, if even there at all. There's no cure yet, but at least it's being properly managed.

Disclaimer: I trust the MHRA(UK), but don't trust the FDA(US). The FDA is known for pushing things through if their "palms" are greased up a bit, if you catch my drift. Then **** hits the fan and lawsuits happen. So for the sake of this argument, what country you're from actually matters.

This would probably be interesting to read but I got 2 lines in and now I have a headache.

 

[RiceBunny]

This would probably be interesting to read but I got 2 lines in and now I have a headache.

Really?! I think the color is cute xD Sorry it gave you a headache!

 

[Brackets]

Really?! I think the color is cute xD Sorry it gave you a headache!

also like ditch the comic sans if you want people to take you seriously lol

 

[DarkOnyx]

So wait. Are you vaccinated or not then?

And you're only fearing it because you don't undestand. It's like when they developed the smallpox vaccines from cows and they thought it would turn you into cows. If you knew how vaccines work you'd know they're not dangerous.

I'm not scared of vaccines. They aren't going to hurt anyone, but it's still a virus, harmful or not. It's gross just injecting it into your body. Yes, I am vaccinated. I don't like vaccines but i'm not going to take a risk on a disease that kills most of it's victims. But I'm not getting any vaccines like the flu or something.

 

[RiceBunny]

also like ditch the comic sans if you want people to take you seriously lol

No, I like it. It's the closest to my actual hand writing.

Also, that was an unnecessarily *****y comment. I understand you feel strongly about this "vaccination" thing. And it's also quite clear you have a hard time dealing with other people's opinions. However, maybe try to take a breather and not be so aggressive?! It's an Animal Crossing forum full of nice folks. Chill. <3

 

[Brackets]

No, I like it. It's the closest to my actual hand writing.

Also, that was an unnecessarily *****y comment. I understand you feel strongly about this "vaccination" thing. And it's also quite clear you have a hard time dealing with other people's opinions. However, maybe try to take a breather and not be so aggressive?! It's an Animal Crossing forum full of nice folks. Chill. <3

lol i wasn't being aggressive at all, i've just been putting my views across. maybe learn to take a joke and stop being so sensitive? chill <3

 

[LailahBells]

I think vaccination is absolutely necessary! It shouldn't be mandatory though, because that crosses a boundary I rather the government not cross. The government shouldn't have that much control over people's body and what they choose to do with it. Just thinking about the government having that much power makes me cringe.

RiceBunny, I agree with you. That was a really interesting read, and a well put argument. Btw don't pay any mind to Annachie. From the looks of it she barks at everyone who shares even a slight difference of opinion. It's that kind of behavior that gets good threads like this one closed.

Ah, I almost forgot. Do you follow holistichabits? You strike me as the kind of person that would.

 

[L. Lawliet]

this is getting good. just like an actual debate.

Anywho, interesting story.
My old cardiologist was in the news for recommending kids not get vaccines

 

[RiceBunny]

I think vaccination is absolutely necessary! It shouldn't be mandatory though, because that crosses a boundary I rather the government not cross. The government shouldn't have that much control over people's body and what they choose to do with it. Just thinking about the government having that much power makes me cringe.

RiceBunny, I agree with you. That was a really interesting read, and a well put argument. Btw don't pay any mind to Annachie. From the looks of it she barks at everyone who shares even a slight difference of opinion. It's that kind of behavior that gets good threads like this one closed.

Ah, I almost forgot. Do you follow holistichabits? You strike me as the kind of person that would.

Hey you. ^.^ And yes, I do actually follow her O_O She's amazing! I've learned so much from her over the years, I don't know what I'd do without her videos. She has a really good video on how to deal with anxiety naturally. It helped me tons! I don't know how she feels about vaccines though. Actually, that's a really good idea for video. I'll drop a comment saying I'd love to know what her views are on vaccines xD Though I'm afraid I might not agree with her =x We'll see! ^.^
Also, I'm glad you liked the read. I personally thought it was a bit too long. And yes, I've noticed that lol I wasn't even going to reply to be honest. It's not worth it, and if fighting happens a mod might come and close the thread. Sometimes it's just better to not feed people like that.