Debate: Vaccines

[Alienfish]

That, and I don't like seeing religion in a debate like this. It gets too controversial when we go far.

I don't say religion such as Christianity and those are, more like "alternative" ones that doesn't believe in vaccinating because they are so thinking about the children..

 

[Luxanna]

Solve our problems, if you refuse to get your child vaccinated then you should be required to live in a special area and go to a different school, now when other kids start to die because of your beliefs then well that's drawing the line.
So when these people kids start dying of common but preventable disease maybe they will rethink their decision, Jee how many kids/children will I basically murder/ let die before I vaccinate them.

 

[Dustmop]

I have a hypothetical question about the "murdering" defense that keeps coming up.

If all of you choose to get your children vaccinated, and I choose not to -- why are you concerned about the "other children" getting sick from the one that's not vaccinated?

Theoretically, all of the other children with "concerned parents" are vaccinated, so potentially exposing them to the disease shouldn't be a concern to anyone except the "selfish" parents and their kids. Yes?

Just curious.

 

[Superpenguin]

I don't think vaccines should be mandatory, but if a doctor finds a parent is refusing to vaccinate their child due to concerns over what's in the vaccine or what negative impacts they fear it could have on their child, then I think the doctor should do their job in educating the patient(s) to encourage them to get vaccinated. If the refusal is based off religious principles or something else entirely, then we should respect that choice.

 

[oath2order]

I kind of think that religion is a part of it, there's no denying that, but I think a larger issue of the natural/holistic/alternative medicine that leads to people not vaccinating. You'll notice that the measles outbreak is in California near Disneyland, and that it's stayed in California. We haven't heard about cases elsewhere, so it stands to reason that people in that region aren't vaccinating.

It's the Los Angeles metropolitan area. The west coast is not known to be as religious as other areas. In this case, I think it's safe to say that religion isn't to blame as much as you can blame other beliefs.

- - - Post Merge - - -

If all of you choose to get your children vaccinated, and I choose not to -- why are you concerned about the "other children" getting sick from the one that's not vaccinated?

Because it's nice to care about other people?

 

[Beardo]

It should be completely mandatory and not optional. There are so many dangerous diseases out there, why risk spreading them when there's already a way to prevent it?

 

[Superpenguin]

I kind of think that religion is a part of it, there's no denying that, but I think a larger issue of the natural/holistic/alternative medicine that leads to people not vaccinating. You'll notice that the measles outbreak is in California near Disneyland, and that it's stayed in California. We haven't heard about cases elsewhere, so it stands to reason that people in that region aren't vaccinating.

It's the Los Angeles metropolitan area. The west coast is not known to be as religious as other areas. In this case, I think it's safe to say that religion isn't to blame as much as you can blame other beliefs.

Michigan has reported its first Measles case of 2015 recently. It's unclear if there's any connection with the Disneyland outbreak.

 

[xTurnip]

Because apparently vaccinating your kids will cause Autism.

There have been studies to prove this wrong.

 

[Brackets]

I have a hypothetical question about the "murdering" defense that keeps coming up.

If all of you choose to get your children vaccinated, and I choose not to -- why are you concerned about the "other children" getting sick from the one that's not vaccinated?

Theoretically, all of the other children with "concerned parents" are vaccinated, so potentially exposing them to the disease shouldn't be a concern to anyone except the "selfish" parents and their kids. Yes?

Just curious.

No. Some people are either too young or too immuno-compromised to be vaccinated. They are therefore relying on herd immunity to protect themselves.
edit: also most vaccines arent 100% effective

 

[Aradai]

honestly it's great to have your child vaccinated, why would you think of not having it? you're going to keep your child healthy and other ones too. if your choice is to not vaccinate them and they get sick, and get another child sick, well then, your action has harmed that child's life.

 

[Dustmop]

No. Some people are either too young or too immuno-compromised to be vaccinated. They are therefore relying on herd immunity to protect themselves.
edit: also most vaccines arent 100% effective

Okay. I have a follow-up question.

If my child is sick, why am I sending him/her to a nursery or a retirement home to infect babies and the elderly?

Rather -- isn't it just common sense to avoid interacting with other people when your kid gets ANYTHING? Even a flu?
I just don't understand how the two are correlated when these theoretical people shouldn't be in close proximity with one another anyway.

 

[EpicGamer12]

If you don't have a vaccine for something dangerous in your area you are retarted, vaccines are one of the best things in medical research history

- - - Post Merge - - -

and everyone should be forced to get them. I don't another thing like the bubonic plague to happen

- - - Post Merge - - -

but hey another thing christians messed up, medical science

While I know you're Cory and don't know what you're talking about 98% of the time, Christians did not mess up medical science. I'm not really sure why people are linking not wanting vaccinations to Christianity, but there is nothing wrong with getting vaccinations as a Christian at all.
Anyway, if you do your research, it was more often than not Christians that were advancing medicine/medical science. While it was not Christians that founded medical science as some falsely believe, they created a lot of good. Even the hospital movement was started by Christians. During the Dark Ages in the days of Feudalism only priests would experiment with science and medicine at all, aside from some high up officials for the King/Queen, etc. Nearly everyone else (about 98-99% of the population) were in the lower class as farmers.

 

[Brackets]

Okay. I have a follow-up question.

If my child is sick, why am I sending him/her to a nursery or a retirement home to infect babies and the elderly?

Rather -- isn't it just common sense to avoid interacting with other people when your kid gets ANYTHING? Even a flu?
I just don't understand how the two are correlated when these theoretical people shouldn't be in close proximity with one another anyway.

Because people are usually infectious before they are symptomatic.

 

[Dustmop]

Because people are usually infectious before they are symptomatic.

fwiw, there's nothing that will convince me the good outweighs the bad when it comes to vaccines. Polio, GBS, autoimmune diseases.. reports of people and animals developing antibodies to their own DNA after immunization, that's messed up. I don't care if it's a small percentage of the time, it happens; and I'd rather get the flu than Polio.

I just wanted to try to understand your side -- and further, how not vaccinating automatically equates to murder according to 90% of this thread.

 

[Cory]

While I know you're Cory and don't know what you're talking about 98% of the time, Christians did not mess up medical science. I'm not really sure why people are linking not wanting vaccinations to Christianity, but there is nothing wrong with getting vaccinations as a Christian at all.
Anyway, if you do your research, it was more often than not Christians that were advancing medicine/medical science. While it was not Christians that founded medical science as some falsely believe, they created a lot of good. Even the hospital movement was started by Christians. During the Dark Ages in the days of Feudalism only priests would experiment with science and medicine at all, aside from some high up officials for the King/Queen, etc. Nearly everyone else (about 98-99% of the population) were in the lower class as farmers.

I think im salty because they persecuted me in old time

 

[Improv]

hey, if a parent wants their children to be at risk for everything under the sun then that's no skin off my back, just bad parenting imo

 

[Brackets]

fwiw, there's nothing that will convince me the good outweighs the bad when it comes to vaccines. Polio, GBS, autoimmune diseases.. reports of people and animals developing antibodies to their own DNA after immunization, that's messed up. I don't care if it's a small percentage of the time, it happens; and I'd rather get the flu than Polio.

I just wanted to try to understand your side -- and further, how not vaccinating automatically equates to murder according to 90% of this thread.

wait...waht.
you DO know that vaccinations have almost eradicated polio, right? and you're trying to tell me that vaccinations CAUSE polio?
From your questions, you obviously know very little about vaccinations and immunity, and i would advise you to read up about it before disregarding vaccines.

this is a child with smallpox. It killed more people than the Black Death. WARNING - GRAPHIC

Spoiler

this disease no longer exists ... because of vaccinations.

 

[a potato]

I don't understand what's so bad about not getting sick though....

 

[-Apples-]

It should be completely mandatory and not optional. There are so many dangerous diseases out there, why risk spreading them when there's already a way to prevent it?

I don't think we need anymore laws. I would safely say that they are highly reccommended, but not required.

 

[Improv]

I don't understand what's so bad about not getting sick though....

it's not that, it's the argument that
not getting sick > i dont need vaccines