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death penalty

Tbh rapists and murderers don't deserve basic human rights. They lost theirs when they decided to take the basic human rights from someone else

Truthfully, what they deserve is what they inflicted on another. A clean painless death is more than they deserve
 
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Just curious, but what do you guys think of prisoners of war getting the death penalty? They probably killed tons of people, but they were fighting for a good cause in their perspective (obviously each side of the fight thinks what they are doing is going to be correct).
 
i dont like it, i think that lifetime jail and the guilt that comes with your crime is punishment enough.
 
Do you have actual data to back that up? Or is this like a Trump tweet where you just use a bunch of caps and made-up ****?

According to NPR, suicides make up only 6% of prison inmate deaths in the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/2015/07/27/426742309/the-shock-of-confinement-the-grim-reality-of-suicide-in-jail



IDK A LOT OF THE RAPISTS AND FAMOUS SERIAL KILLERS I KNOW ENDED UP COMMITTING SUICIDE IN JAIL BECAUSE THEY COULDNT DEAL WITH THE GUILT AND TIME. LIKE A LOT. THERES PROBABLY A LIST ON WIKIPEDIA. BUT DOES THAT ACCOUNT FOR PEOPLE WITH LIFE SENTENCES ONLY?

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Do you have actual data to back that up? Or is this like a Trump tweet where you just use a bunch of caps and made-up ****?

According to NPR, suicides make up only 6% of prison inmate deaths in the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/2015/07/27/426742309/the-shock-of-confinement-the-grim-reality-of-suicide-in-jail

That is understandable, but literally... Like... How are we supposed to judge when someone is supposed to die or not? Where do we draw the line? How do we decide what crimes deserve the punishment of the death penalty? Do we believe that anyone who murders should receive the death penalty, or should we leave that to mass murderers and etc? It's a really fine line, and I feel like, in my opinion, it's too hard to know who deserves to die or not. Yeah, some people may be beyond rehabilitation, but do they still deserve to die because of their actions? Are we not just as bad for killing these people in the name of justice? I don't know how to feel on the issue at all, I think I'm against it, but I feel there's just too many questions and moral dilemmas that'd arise from this so I think it's too risky to really go for it. And like Cariicarky stated - what about in cases where someone has received the death penalty even though they were innocent? I feel like that's what puts me against it. You can't just bring somebody back to life.

i only think it should be used on people who we know are 100% guilty, like we have video proof of them killing mass groups of people. i know we used to wrongfully lynch black people for "raping" (they didnt) white women which is wrong, but if we have clear proof someone killed mass groups of people then..why not? is death not better than being locked up for the rest of your life in a lonely room?
 
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i only think it should be used on people who we know are 100% guilty, like we have video proof of them killing mass groups of people. i know we used to wrongfully lynch black people for "raping" (they didnt) white women which is wrong, but if we have clear proof someone killed mass groups of people then..why not? is death not better than being locked up for the rest of your life in a lonely room?

Even videos can be tampered with.

Anyway, I don't have the patience to read through all 23 pages of this thread, but I will say that I am against the death penalty. I think it's a barbaric practice that has no place in modern society. I don't believe in murder, and that includes murder sanctioned by the government.
 
No, I don't really agree with the death penalty in most scenarios. Instead, maybe have a person have a life sentence or something? Killing them won't teach them to become better people, because they'll be dead. The only good thing about the death sentence is that it possibly scares other people into behaving so they don't end up having to deal with the law, but still. Maybe chop an arm off or a hand or something so they're disabled (along with going to jail) instead of killing them if it's a really serious thing they've done and they deserve it? But not kill. I can see in certain circumstances where the death penalty would be plausible, but not for all crimes.
 
Just curious, but what do you guys think of prisoners of war getting the death penalty? They probably killed tons of people, but they were fighting for a good cause in their perspective (obviously each side of the fight thinks what they are doing is going to be correct).

I'm not an expert in international law, but I think soldiers aren't supposed to be tried for killing people in the act of duty unless they committed war crimes like rape, torture, or killing civilians on purpose. In a legitimate war, if someone is shooting at you or your allies, you have the right to shoot back no matter which side you're on. It isn't any more justified for the winning side than for the losing side. Punishing soldiers of the losing side just breeds more resentment and hostility and leads to more war.

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Maybe chop an arm off or a hand or something so they're disabled (along with going to jail) instead of killing them if it's a really serious thing they've done and they deserve it?

God, what is it with people here wanting to chop off people's limbs? I thought people on TBT are more civilized than that.
 
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I'm honestly grossed out by how many of you have 0 compassion towards criminals and consider them in a 100% black and white way. No matter how you twist your words or beliefs, criminals of all severities have human attributes and are as complex as us. Because of this there are rarely criminals who do their crime for no literal reason or just for fun, there's usually an underlying problem or motive, and deciding whether this motive is deserving a death penalty isn't always easy.

By assuming that criminals have no humanity and no background motives, that have to be taken into account, you are thinking in a very lazy, immature way and are also being 'ableist' by ignoring the possibility of a mental illness and the possibility of this mental illness being treatable. Instead you choose to look at criminals as an entirely different form of human beings and justify lack of empathy and rights towards them by it.

I want to expand on this as I feel it is directly linked to the idea of the death penalty. One of the problems with assuming murderers and other violent criminals are all bad, evil, not human etc etc is... that it's not true. We like to think someone like the one described in the OP is some strange twisted being who isn't human, isn't *like us*. It's scary to find out how utterly normal and mundane these mass-murderers were to people around them. It's confronting to realise that someone "evil" really can look and act and *be* just like any normal non-murdering human being.. until they start murdering.

The most common thing said about serial murderers and rapists by people who knew them is "but he/she was so normal I just can't believe it." Often it's "but he/she was so nice!" with a list of good deeds added. Statements like this come up in so many cases that it is very unusual to hear of a case where no witness makes such a statement. But regardless of who knew what and when, there is always this accusation (unspoken or otherwise) : how could they not have known? Because it is so very clear to everyone now, why wasn't it always clear?

There's a lot going on psychologically that explains why this happens, why people will go to such lengths - unconsciously - to use hindsight to paint that bad guy as utterly evil. But basically it boils down to : they are not like me. I am good, they are bad. I would never do ____ and they did. I had no idea they were capable of such a thing, they tricked me. I would have known otherwise. They are not just bad, they are evil. They are nothing like me. They aren't even human.

This mentality, this idea that we should be able to KNOW how bad a particular person is - even before they do anything to merit such a label - is dangerous. And faulty logic. But worse : it actively contributes to the suffering of the victims, and future victims of other crimes. When the attacker doesn't look evil, or "seem the type" then in general there's more trauma added to the victim/s in order to try and be heard and believed. People who have never knowingly talked to a rapist, a child abuser, or even a murderer tend to assume that those people just aren't around them. So they are more likely to dismiss any claims made against someone they know, just as countless other victims or witnesses have over the years..

The man who (allegedly) killed those people in Japan because he wanted to "help" them is a(n alleged) murderer. But he's just a man. Ignoring this reality doesn't make you (speaking generally) as bad as he is. But it sure doesn't help anyone either. He's just a man. Not a monster. Not a a demon*. Not evil. He broke the law, committed an absolutely reprehensible act by most anyone's standards, morals, whatever term you prefer. But he was once a baby, a child, a teen, and did all kinds of things that every human being does. Does that mean it's okay that he murdered those defenseless people? Of ****ing course not. But all the hyperbole does is isolate this man from his humanity, which may be of comfort to some but sure as heck does nothing to help understand the events in this situation. Or help us try and prevent such a thing happening again.

By painting people like this as evil, not human... you're only fooling yourself (again, speaking generally). Which isn't especially helpful when trying to prevent child abuse, rape, and sexual assault crimes. Statistically speaking : we all know people who have committed those crimes. They just hide it well.

* I'm not religious and my comment is not intended to counter nor reference any particular religious belief. The language I've used is meant to be applied in a secular fashion as is normal in society today, not to refer to anything biblical.
 
We shouldn't have compassion for rapists and murderers, etc. They're not even human to me honestly. As far as the mentally ill, if they are so far gone that they commit crimes like that (ex serial killers) then they also deserve the death penalty. They aren't contributing to society. I'm not gonna have sympathy for a lowlife.
 
We shouldn't have compassion for rapists and murderers, etc. They're not even human to me honestly. As far as the mentally ill, if they are so far gone that they commit crimes like that (ex serial killers) then they also deserve the death penalty. They aren't contributing to society. I'm not gonna have sympathy for a lowlife.

u dont have to have compassion for them to realize that they are Literally human and thus have human rights. n a jury or those law ppl shouldn't have personal feelings about the person
and killing ppl because they're if no use to society uhhh doesn't sound great but uh u do u..?
 
No, I don't really agree with the death penalty in most scenarios. Instead, maybe have a person have a life sentence or something? Killing them won't teach them to become better people, because they'll be dead. The only good thing about the death sentence is that it possibly scares other people into behaving so they don't end up having to deal with the law, but still. Maybe chop an arm off or a hand or something so they're disabled (along with going to jail) instead of killing them if it's a really serious thing they've done and they deserve it? But not kill. I can see in certain circumstances where the death penalty would be plausible, but not for all crimes.

Chop an arm off to make criminals disabled? are you serious? That's barbaric as hell, and also, disabilities are something people have to struggle with for life and really shouldn't be seen as a punishment and an alternative to being killed. You said killing them won't teach them to be better people, how would chopping a limb off do that? Never mind the medical costs. Wouldn't life imprisonment suffice?



We shouldn't have compassion for rapists and murderers, etc. They're not even human to me honestly. As far as the mentally ill, if they are so far gone that they commit crimes like that (ex serial killers) then they also deserve the death penalty. They aren't contributing to society. I'm not gonna have sympathy for a lowlife.

Isn't it a wonder how the mentally ill are able to get to that point (serial killings, etc)? Here's a slightly better idea, actually improving the system of care for people with severe mental illness, namely intense psychosis. They deserve care and help before things escalate that far. Most of them wouldn't be "so far gone" if people actually cared. If young children aren't given the death penalty or tried as adults, when they are usually aware of what they're doing, then neither should a severely mentally ill person. As their illness was the reason for their crimes (in the case of a person suffering psychosis and losing touch with reality) they are far more likely to recover and show remorse. I too agree that showing compassion to very dangerous criminals generally isn't the best idea though, no matter what, I won't be showing any compassion for a rapist or someone who abused a child/children, I don't care if they are still human, because obviously they are, but personally I'm not going to value them the same as others, not even in the slightest.
 
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What's up with all of the dehumanization language up in here? Non human. Subhuman. Monsters. Animals. Blah blah blah. Using these words doesn't add anything to the conversation, it just shows that people are so uncomfortable with certain criminals that they try to distance themselves from them. "I'm not like them! They're not human!"

Also, cutting limbs off of incarcerated people?! Sheesh. This thread truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
 
Don't think there is any other word for child abusers and pedophiles. There are some crimes that are so hideous and depraved that decent people can't even comprehend how another human being could commit such an act. Which is probably why such language comes into use
 
Don't think there is any other word for child abusers and pedophiles. There are some crimes that are so hideous and depraved that decent people can't even comprehend how another human being could commit such an act. Which is probably why such language comes into use

Here's an interesting article about dehumanizing language and criminals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633929/
*warning: contains uncomfortable/graphic descriptions of crimes. And psych jargon. And a lot of statistics. But I love statistics.*

There's also a really fascinating book about the subject called Less Than Human. Slurs and dehumanizing language try to have an 'othering' effect--they distance you from the target and make you less likely to feel empathy for them or, as seen in the paper above, makes you more likely to give them harsher punishments. It also makes people feel better about themselves.

I just think it's problematic when talking about the death penalty because it can have pretty powerful effects. While some people might not mind calling a child rapist on death row a monster, realize the same 'othering' effect can be used in racist ways.

Dehumanizing words make people feel better, but they really shouldn't. Murder, rape, molestation ARE horrible. Trying to hide from that by using dehumanizing terms may make it easier for people to talk about but also lets emotions get in the way.

tl;dr: I don't know. I need to go to sleep.
 
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Don't think there is any other word for child abusers and pedophiles. There are some crimes that are so hideous and depraved that decent people can't even comprehend how another human being could commit such an act. Which is probably why such language comes into use

I guess you're referring to calling child abusers and pedophiles "monsters" and such? While I completely understand where you're coming from, and sometimes using such language is a way to express utter disgust and hatred for such vile humans but honestly I think that outlook is slightly scary and really rather dangerous. The way I personally see it is if someone is always calling these criminals "monsters" and using language that dehuminises them (because after all, no matter how vile they are, they are still human) children will hear this language and see these people as their own vision of monsters (scary purple things hiding in their closets) and then they most likely won't realise that these abusers rarely take such form, these abusers could be anyone around them, these abusers are human. If a child were to be abused, they might not realise that it is abuse as the abuser isn't a monster, like they've been led to believe, the abuser is human. I believe it's very important for us to call these people what they are, especially to make children aware that these abusive ****s only come in human form, usually even in the form of a nice human, and they sadly aren't monsters.
 
This thread reminded me of the weird killer fangirls and one of their poems regarding the columbine shootings:
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I think I also seen some poem regarding a rapist and they tried to make is sympathetic with connecting it to warning signs and how many rejections broke their heart or whatever that caused them to do it.

Also someone asked about the death row episode of the 18 year old on trial for killing two people. He got sentenced to death.
 
Here's an interesting article about dehumanizing language and criminals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633929/
*warning: contains uncomfortable/graphic descriptions of crimes. And psych jargon. And a lot of statistics. But I love statistics.*

There's also a really fascinating book about the subject called Less Than Human. Slurs and dehumanizing language try to have an 'othering' effect--they distance you from the target and make you less likely to feel empathy for them or, as seen in the paper above, makes you more likely to give them harsher punishments. It also makes people feel better about themselves.

I just think it's problematic when talking about the death penalty because it can have pretty powerful effects. While some people might not mind calling a child rapist on death row a monster, realize the same 'othering' effect can be used in racist ways.

Dehumanizing words make people feel better, but they really shouldn't. Murder, rape, molestation ARE horrible. Trying to hide from that by using dehumanizing terms may make it easier for people to talk about but also lets emotions get in the way.

tl;dr: I don't know. I need to go to sleep.

I guess you're referring to calling child abusers and pedophiles "monsters" and such? While I completely understand where you're coming from, and sometimes using such language is a way to express utter disgust and hatred for such vile humans but honestly I think that outlook is slightly scary and really rather dangerous. The way I personally see it is if someone is always calling these criminals "monsters" and using language that dehuminises them (because after all, no matter how vile they are, they are still human) children will hear this language and see these people as their own vision of monsters (scary purple things hiding in their closets) and then they most likely won't realise that these abusers rarely take such form, these abusers could be anyone around them, these abusers are human. If a child were to be abused, they might not realise that it is abuse as the abuser isn't a monster, like they've been led to believe, the abuser is human. I believe it's very important for us to call these people what they are, especially to make children aware that these abusive ****s only come in human form, usually even in the form of a nice human, and they sadly aren't monsters.

While I see where you're coming from, as a child I was never aware of my abuser being referred to as a monster, although I'm quite sure that he was called that by many people who were close to me. But as I grew older that is exactly the kind of thing that I referred to him as in my mind. I've now also worked with many abused children and wouldn't use such language to them of course. I think that's a different issue when it comes to adults referring to these things as some sort of subhuman and what language we would use with a child to avoid confusing them or making the situation worse.

I think it will never cease to shock somebody when they hear about another horrific case of child abuse or molestation. Even though we are all too aware that these people do exist, in every walk of life.
Using that kind of language I think is just a way to create distance in someone's mind that another human being could do such a thing when of course we well know that they're very much human, sadly.
 
No. I don't think someone should die from something like that.
It just shows how messed up the human race is, though.

I think going to jail is also messed up but what else can anyone do.
 
The fact that people in this thread are coming in with this "holier than thou" persona and basically defending and sympathizing with rapists and murderers is pretty scary and gross tbh
Like even if you don't agree with the death penalty I can support that but some of the stuff y'all are coming up with is just crazy
 
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