New Horizons is being compared to the wrong game and I think it's causing a lot of frustration

kemdi

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Posts
926
Bells
3,542
Holiday Candy Cane 2023
Silver Mailbox
Warning in advance: This post WILL be VERY long. I'm gonna try my very best to keep my thoughts concise, while making a case for my point.

A few days ago, I came across an opinion thread. That person was basically saying that if someone had put X-amount of hours into playing NH, they shouldn't complain about the game having "no content" and should stop comparing it to New Leaf. I didn't respond to it, but my immediate reaction was that the opinion was unfair. I, for one, have well over 1k hours into NH, and yes, I enjoy the game. But at the same time, I also think the game needs more content and more for players to do. Still, even to me, my own opinion seemed so contradictory. Like, how could I have put that many hours into the game and still say there isn't much to do? That got me thinking...What exactly do I DO when I play New Horizons?

For the last few days I made myself hyperaware of how I played NH. I took notes of every action I made in the game, and for how long I did it. I fished, bug hunted, dived and shopped, but not for very long: on average I did these activities collectively for about 10-15 minutes. I dug fossils, and talked to and gave villagers gifts, but again, only for a few minutes(5-10). The vast majority of my time was spent either decorating, or doing activities related to decorating(for instance terraforming/landscaping so I could put down some new items). I timed myself spending close to 45 minutes-to over an hour doing this activity. This is what I do the most when I play NH.

It made me think for a while: did I play like this in New Leaf? I played New Leaf for years. Trying to think back on HOW I played and everything I did during that time, was almost a blur. Still, there was something I could use to get a glimpse of my New Leaf play style: my 3DS SD card. Like I said I played NL for years, I literally have thousands of pics of my activities in that game. I popped the card into my laptop, and immediately I saw that almost whenever I took a pic, it was with my character interacting with someone or something, whether one of my friends, talking to a villager, playing a mini-game on Tortimer isle, hide-and-seek, etc.

Going through my pics, it appeared that, for me, communication was what made NL so much fun. There were plenty of pics of me decorating my town, but whenever I saw an interaction, I could almost recall what it was about, esp. when it came to my friends. Case closed! Mystery solved! Communication was the key for me, and that's why I liked New Leaf more and why New Leaf was better! The End!...Right?

I was slowly going through the pics on the card, and again, I had thousands. As I'm looking at all of them, I notice that a great deal weren't even from New Leaf. They were Happy Home Designer pics that I was proud of and had posted all over the internet. These pics didn't show any communication or interaction at all. But I still remembered doing them, and I still got that same feeling of joy when I recalled them. And that's when it hit me: New Horizons immediate predecessor isn't New Leaf at all. It's Happy Home Designer.

The more I tried to compare New Horizons to New Leaf the more dissimilar they became. But when I stared comparing notes between NH and Happy Home Designer, it was like the two games lined up almost perfectly.

Happy Home Designer or HHD (for those unaware) is a sandbox Animal Crossing spin-off game released in 2015. The game didn't have much content, but it never pretended to. The sole purpose of the game was to design and decorate the homes of the villagers. There was almost no storyline involved and no scaling metric by which the game judged your design and decorating skills; you did have to use the minimum furniture assigned to each villager, but other than that, the game itself never judged you. Judgement of your skills came from other players. By uploading your rooms and designs, other HHD players would rate your creations from 1-5 on a few different metrics(cute, cool, unique and 'I'd live here'), with 5 stars being the best for each category. The game had very little dialog, a complete lack of any story, and streamlined the Animal Crossing world into a decorating and design focus. In HHD, you could choose the individual environment that you wanted to build your villager's homes in. And the environment of one villager's house had no effect on any other's, because while there was a town square filled with various buildings you could also design for, there was no central town/village like in mainline games. Each home existed in its own bubble unaware of any others.
If you wanted to build your villager's house in a desert you could. If you wanted a beach house, you could set a home in that environment too. If you wanted a home surrounded by waterfalls and cliffs you could build one there with no problem...sound familiar? Additionally, HHD introduced several features and functions that made its way into the updated Animal Crossing New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo game, and/or eventually into New Horizons. Going through New Horizons now, I can see HHD's influence very clearly:

- The interface for calling amiibos from the Nook machine into NH is exactly the same as it was in HHD. It was HHD that first used amiibos to call in npc's and villagers. This transferred later to ACNL:Welcome Amiibo, and was included from the beginning in New Horizons.

- The room sizes of your house. In all other AC games all max room sizes of the maximum home was 8x8. The max home size in NH however, is one of the many max home layouts in HHD, 6x6, 8x8 and 8x10.

- The almost complete lack of engagement from your villagers. In NH, you can talk to your villagers and there is some in-depth dialog--if you care to dig it out. But unlike in the previous main games, its not a primary focus, and its not upfront. Deep dialog with villagers is there for players who care to find it. Otherwise most people will get surface level villager interaction and not much beyond that.

- HHD was the first AC game ever where players could choose their skin tone

- HHD was also the first AC game ever where you were allowed to put any type of furniture outside(except for wall items).

- Ordering items directly from your pocket. This is first introduced in HHD, where you didn't have a Nook store, and all of your previously cataloged furniture materialized from hammerspace. The more furniture you used to decorate, the more you had at your disposal. This mechanism never made it into NL: Welcome Amiibo. But a version of it returns in NH: Once you order 100 items from the nook machine in town hall, you're able to order cataloged furniture from your pocket, instead of having to talk to Tom Nook, the nooklings or the nook machine like in previous games.

- HHD removed Harriet from doing Hairstyles. Just like in NH, changing your skin, eye and hair style/color was done through an item interface: In HHD its by a modified Harriet's styling machine, and in NH its by a mirror. In fact, its through HHD that we see almost none of the npc's in their usual roles. Aside from Tom Nook, Isabelle, Lottie and Digby all of the npcs were removed from their normal roles that they usually play in Animal Crossing, because there was no need for that in HHD. Again, HHD's primary line of gameplay only had you designing homes for the villagers. So unless you had the npc amiibo cards, you would never see them in the game. Sound familiar?

- Being able to move furniture through a fourth-wall interface, and without physically pushing it around was introduced in HHD, and later made its way over to New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo. By default its included in NH.

- Flowers didn't die in HHD, and there was no need to water them. In fact HHD treated flowers, bushes, trees, etc. like furniture items, much like NH does. And like HHD, NH doesn't allow you to display flowers(trees and bushes too) inside, whereas you could dig up flowers and display them indoors in previous mainline games.

- Ceiling items. Coding for these were found from early datamining in NH. Ceiling items are readily available in HHD. If I'm not mistaken(and if someone can please check me on this) these were among the first things to be found from datamining NH code. Ceiling items are not available at all in New Leaf, nor New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo. And elements from New Leaf code(such as swimming, dream towns and villagers visiting) were added in much LATER updates than the coding for ceiling items. If NH were already built on New Leaf, there would have been no need to ADD New Leaf code for things like swimming, villager visiting(which we still don't have), and dreaming. It should have already been there from the start.

Most importantly, I think:

- The emphasis on decorating and world building. This one is the biggest one. Like I said above, communication for me was what made NL so much fun. Communication was the central focus of every Animal Crossing game, from Gamecube up to New Leaf. It's why each of those games focused so heavily on villager dialog, and focused so much on interacting with other players, because in those games, building relationships with those in your world was the primary theme. But this relationship-building seems optional at best in NH, whereas building your world and decorating is mandatory, like it is in HHD. After all, in NH you MUST have at least a 3-stars rating on your island to progress in the game. In the previous games of GC-NL, town ratings, while rewarding, were never required for anything beyond a token item like a gold axe or watering can. And you never NEEDED those, I mean unless you really liked chopping trees or liked having decorative and pretty items like gold roses.

The more I thought about it, the more I saw that HHD, like NH gave you almost absolute freedom to design wherever and however you chose. But in NH, it came at the cost of almost everything else that had been known to define Animal Crossing up to this point. This was fine for HHD because it was a spin-off game that few played. But when this is transposed on NH, it causes problems because people naturally expect that the next mainline successor in the series would have come from the previous mainline game, NL.

After all, isn't HHD considered a 'bad game'? Why build off of a 'bad game' instead of the highly successful one? Why would they even think of using a spin-off to launch a new focus in the series? And also, didn't HHD have a ton of furniture, whereas NH barely has any compared to the previous games?
Well for starters, HHD isn't considered a 'bad game', unlike say, Amiibo Festival. In fact, if you look up the ratings for HHD, you'll see that the game has mostly positive reactions and okay reviews. The biggest complaint about HHD is that it's bare bones, with almost nothing to do outside of designing and decorating. But again, HHD never claimed to be anything else. Even from the ads that were shown promoting the game, you KNEW beforehand what you were getting. If decorating and designing wasn't your thing, it wasn't the game for you. If it was, you'd very likely enjoy it. The decorating and designing aspect of NH is it's strongest point, especially with terraforming and landscaping. But for those who don't enjoy that side of AC or are not used to giving it much thought or attention, the game has little to do.

As for why the devs would succeed HHD as opposed to having a traditional predecessor like New Leaf: I have no idea, and can only guess. But if I had to guess, I would say that maybe the developers wanted to breakaway from the mundane and try something new. Maybe they thought the series was getting stale and wanted to shake things up. Maybe they saw that HHD was good but didn't get enough love, and wanted to use NH to show that. I have no clue. There are still plenty of elements of the previous AC games in NH, since NH is considered a mainline game, after all. You can't throw it all completely out. But I think that just like Pokemon, the AC mainline series got a bit of a reboot, albeit a much quieter one, using HHD as a starting point. It would explain why so much of the previous furniture, well known in the series, is missing: because if you want a fresh start, you don't want to keep attaching old strings to new ideas.

As for the furniture catalog itself, it's well known by now that Nintendo plans to have at least two more years worth of updates for NH. I do think there will be more events added, but if NH really is predicated on HHD, then I think a significant portion of future downloads will be item based, and that by the time the downloads are totally finished, the New Horizons item catalog will rival HHDs, which actually had a bigger catalog than New Leaf.

I went back and checked my play time in HHD. I first started playing HHD on 12/4/2015. Since then I have logged a total of 334 hours and 38 minutes in that game, with my average play per session being just over 2 hours. For a game where you do almost nothing else but design homes, that's a lot! Clearly, I liked playing HHD! I enjoyed the designing aspect of the game, even though that was pretty much all there was to it.

Putting it all together, HHD perfectly explains why I'm able to hold a seemingly contradictory opinion on NH, about there being nothing to do, but still having done so much: because both HHD and NH are predicated on world building and designing, which I clearly enjoy, but NH has a smaller focus on the communication and relationship-building aspects of the Gamecube-New Leaf games, which I also very much enjoyed. It's still present, but it has a smaller focus. The lack of relationship-building is fine for HHD because it never billed itself as anything but a design game, but with NH, it comes off as a bit confusing, because naturally people expect NH to be the successor of NL. Before, I felt that NH gutted many of NL's features and didn't replace them. But now I'm understanding that NH does not lack what New Leaf had. Its that the core focus of New Leaf was never meant to be there in the first place.

In the Gamecube through New Leaf era you have villagers to warm up to, NES and other mini games to play, npc stories to discover, and cities to visit. You had a role to fill as mayor, public work projects to build, ordinances to enact and a town to lead. You had petitions to sign, and dance clubs to hang out and dance in. You had a family to interact with on a distant island and a plethora of games with which to interact with and play together with your friends and strangers if you chose. You had so many ways to communicate.
The earlier games from Gamecube to New Leaf had communication as a central focus with elements of world building baked in. New Horizons, isn't like that. Like HHD, it has a world building focus with elements of communication baked in. In this sense, its like AC is almost now like the Legend of Zelda series: it has two timelines, one where you focus on building your relationships and the other where you focus on building your world. From Gamecube to New Leaf is the one that everyone is most familiar, but because that central focus isn't shown in NH, many think it's an AC outlier, but it really isn't. Its just a growing branch of HHD.

Anyway, those are my thoughts as long as they are. I'd like to hear some counterpoints or comments, but for now this seems to make the most sense to me. I think I'm gonna go back to my NL town from time to time. Maybe that way I can get the best of both worlds.
 
oof that was a lot to read haha
HHD is by far the best animal crossing game, i have so many hours on it and i can't even begin to explain just how much i love that game

anyway, i said to my sister the other day that it was similar to NH, not as detailed as this aha
i just said "u can decorate outside, they're literally the same game" 😂

but yeah, while HHD will always be superior to NH, i do agree they have really similar features, which is fine by me as long as nintendo is aware NH isn't HHD2 and i'm still waiting for that to release on the switch lol
 
I like your thinking. I never thought of comparing NH to HHD. I'm more of a person that likes to communicate with my villagers so it could be the main reason why I'm a little irked as to why the updates leave a lot to be desired for me. I think the problem with NH is the heavy focus of designing your house and island, especially since locked colour variations and limited furniture holds some people back. Because of this, the community aspect with the villagers has taken a hit even though I think the dialogue improved a little bit.

I find it a little sad how this game has huge potential to be so good but is being held back by periodic updates.
 
I loved HHD and still play it. I also love the fact the Welcome Amiibo update for NL barrowed some features from it. The reason a lot of people said HHD was a bad game was likely due to the fact it was a spin off. There was nothing else to the game other than decorating homes and buildings.

While HHD introduced a lot of revolutionary features to Animal Crossing, I don't know if I could call it the predecessor to NH, since it is just a spin off. Otherwise, I think Pocket Camp would win that title.

I really hope that Nintendo doesn't make HHD2 for the Switch, but rather offer a DLC for NH that has HHD functionality.
 
you've pretty much summed up all my thoughts & speculations about ACNH in a single post here. can't say much other than: yes, i agree with... well, everything you just said. i've certainly enjoyed ACNH thus far, can't deny that, but i really do wish there was a larger focus on building a community & relationships therein.

and it's funny you mention going back to ACNL to get the best of both worlds, i actually thought the exact same thing yesterday and started a new save. i look forward to finding out if ACNL is as engaging as i remember it or if i'm just looking back with rose-tinted glasses.
 
I've never played HHD or OG AC, and recently reset my NL save to recapture the charm people say it has over NH. Long story short, NL doesn't hold a candle to NH, and it's not close.

The community frequently talks about their reasons why NH isn't as good based on "missing" features, but purposely avoids talking about what makes NH better than the others. I'm not getting into that here, as that horse is now pulverized, but can attest that - based on my opinion - NH puts the other series entries I have played to shame.
 
Last edited:
I've never played HHD or OG AC, and recently reset my NL save to recapture the charm people say it has over NH. Long story short, NL doesn't hold a candle to NH, and it's not close.

The community frequently talks about their reasons why NH isn't as good based on "missing" features, but purposely avoids talking about what makes NH better than the others. I'm not getting into that here, as that horse is now pulverized, but can attest that - based on my opinion - NH puts the other series entries I have played to shame.

I guess we’re pretty much in the minority in this boat but I also think NH is a lot more aligned with my playstyle than NL ever was. Of course, I played NL for as long as I could (years and years) and thoroughly enjoyed it. On the other hand, I also have complaints about NH and some parts of this iteration I’m not exactly a fan of (lack of mini games a la Tortimer’s island, the hourly music, the piece meal updates, the forced trading and forced online membership) but generally, I do prefer NH than NL. For me, NH is not an HHD successor, but rather NL without the hassle. In my case, this game has been able to address issues I had with NL and gave me more freedom and control to enjoy the game more (no more grass wear, flowers don’t die, trees can be replanted, balloons have actual items I can use and not just weird looking balloon series items, villagers don’t move without asking, I can hunt for villagers when I have a free spot, I can invite villagers from the campsite even if my island is full, villagers don’t judge you if you time travel because honestly I have a real life and I can’t play everyday so I go back on events I missed) and so I play it with less stress and more enjoyment.

For the villager dialogue, another unpopular opinion but I don’t have a problem with NH on this regard. I must be lucky or my game must be weird because I always get unique dialogues. However, I’m the type to speak a lot to my villagers and I am best friends with almost all of them and have their photos so that must be why. I also make sure to maintain a balanced personality range in my island and for duplicate personalities, I make sure they’re of different subtypes so that might also be a factor. I also don’t see a problem with the dialogue progression in the game where more unique dialogues only open up later as you get more friendly with the villagers. I think it’s a nice touch that makes the game more of a life sim and gives incentive to people who like this aspect of the game since you have to really work towards getting to know your villagers.

Overall, I do think that the game brings a lot of different experiences to different people and that’s why opinions do differ. I think every game in the AC series though have their own unique charms and appeal to varying playstyles depending on the person playing.
 
I've never played HHD or OG AC, and recently reset my NL save to recapture the charm people say it has over NH. Long story short, NL doesn't hold a candle to NH, and it's not close.

The community frequently talks about their reasons why NH isn't as good based on "missing" features, but purposely avoids talking about what makes NH better than the others. I'm not getting into that here, as that horse is now pulverized, but can attest that - based on my opinion - NH puts the other series entries I have played to shame.
I wanted to try replaying NL as well, but just the idea of of having less inventory space and no proper pathways, along with villagers leaving unexpectedly really turns me away. Sure NH is missing a few things, but unlike NL, I've actually held on to this island for almost a year! Never got that far with NL, and I think it's because of the sheer amount of creativity they allow you, along with countless QoL updates compared to the predecessors.
 
TL: DR I agree but I have other things I wanna add

I am really glad that you said something about having so many hours in it but still complaining. I definitely have over 1000 hours. But I also feel the game could improve. I do find it cheap that they're creating "3 years of content" to keep the fanbase playing by dripping in things that they neglected to put in from previous games. But there are good things that it has brought; yet for me personally not enough to outweigh what feels missing. I also wanna add that I think some of this critique from long time fans such as myself also can come from a place that we have higher expectations when we're waiting 8-12 years for a new main series game, whereas games like Pokemon get many spinoffs and more regular releases of main series. Maybe Animal Crossing isn't AS popular as Pokemon or other games Nintendo sells, but AC is still popular enough IMO that it deserves some more effort.

The fact that you mentioned it is more like Happy Home Designer does make sense as to why it's basically a decorating sim and doesn't feel like a mainline Animal Crossing game. I do believe HHD was a spinoff, so yeah I agree, don't know why they'd do that. And if they were going to base it off of a spinoff, I kind of think they should have based it more off of pocket camp (besides the crafting) to pull in the villager interactions. From what I see, Pocket Camp is more played than HHD ( I can most definitely be wrong so please take what I say with a grain of salt). And people seem to like the items from there better? At least I see them getting more hype.

I can appreciate New Horizons a little more after reading your post, but people in this community definitely shouldn't shun people who have complaints about this game. Their points are valid. Just the same as someone who loves New Horizons, who's favorite game is NH that their opinion is valid as well.
 
Adding on to what other people have said here in this thread, and what I've said before in other threads, I think there's a definite trend towards exaggerating an AC game's flaws in criticism of the game, so that there's little soundbites that the AC fanbase can trot out without specifically going into detail with what's wrong with the game.

Villagers aren't just nicer in NL and NH, they're LOBOTOMISED, they're ROBOTS, they're TROPHIES, they're TOYS...

Or in this case, New Horizons is an INSTAGRAM GAME, it's MINECRAFT WITH AN AC SKIN, THIS SERIES USED TO BE ABOUT COMMUNICATION, or IT'S A BUILDING GAME AND NOTHING MORE

...and that's a MASSIVE exaggeration of facts there.

To say New Horizons doesn't take influence from the spinoff games it made during the 7 year gap between proper AC games isn't lying, and saying the life sim aspect of the game isn't underdeveloped (or in some cases, oversimplified to the form of menus) in a load of ways also isn't lying, but saying that New Horizons is basically just another HHD game, or is JUST a decoration game, is a lie.

While you make a good point about the flora system being basically broken in NH like it was in HHD, it's undermined by the fact that NH also has a flower breeding system, which HHD doesn't, and the face and hair customisation being moved to a menu (which is good in some ways, like how it allows for different skintones, and bad in some ways, like how it takes a system that had an NPC for it and oversimplifies it). You also mistake "having an infinite pool of items" for "being able to order 5 items a day and craft other items using however many resources you have at hand", and "being able to small talk to villagers" for "being able to befriend (with an actual friendship system), find out about their lives before the island and occasionally do things for villagers, even if it isn't as regular or varied as the both of us would like"... it's an argument largely based around going "THIS IS SIMILAR, HENCE THIS IS PROOF THAT AC IS BECOMING HAPPY HOME DESIGNER" and it also acts as if a lot of the game isn't based around communication in order to do these things, whether that be talking to the myriad of daily visitors on offer, your own villagers, or doing the activities that AC is designed around like fishing and bug-catching.

If anything, one of the things I like about the game is the fact that every facility feels important. The museum, Harv's Island and NMT islands have all had events on them. Not enough, mind you, not entirely sure why that is exactly, but they all feel valued.

While I'm STILL not into the mad overdecorating that some AC players seem to go in for, I'm also not really going to scold people for being into it or worse, act as if it's a massive betrayal of the series' roots, and that communication also doesn't involve sharing things irl, whether that be designs for clothing or designs for villages. As the guy who knows a lot about the JP versions of the GameCube game, the PWP-type thing was introduced in 2003's e+ version, alongside a better-developed friendship system that has a reward (although in that game it was the live version of K.K. Slider's tracks, which is still something I want brought back at some point). These things can obviously coexist, and I honestly want them to in NH. If they don't develop over the next couple of years of the game, I'm honestly going to be disappointed.

(also ceiling furniture was in the turkey day/toy day datamine, diving and bushes were in the base game datamine)

tl;dr you've got some good points and i do think the game is lacking in many areas, but to call it hhd 2.0 makes it seem a lot simpler than it actually is
 
Last edited:
I played HHD a lot and love it. I think it's true NH is also very deco focused... but the lack of items and customization hold it back. HHD had more sets/styles, let you customize house size, house model/roof, number of rooms, and had ceiling items, too. You also had a school, a department store, restaurant, music hall, hotel, etc which you could customize the exterior and interior decorate however you wished. I actually miss having a main street or downtown center a lot.

And then you have Pocket Camp, which is even more about collecting/decorating and has much more and extravagant items (and much more animal interaction.) I know it's a mobile game but there's no reason some of the PC items couldn't have been redone for NH. A carousel that villagers can ride, a pool they can sit by or in, a beach umbrella they can sit under... useful and interesting outdoor features.

As for gameplay, NL took a lot longer to unlock everything, especially if you didn't tt or trade. Lots of npcs and extras were removed. I spent hours fishing and catching bugs for bells, but in NH I hardly bother because spawn rates were nerfed and it's easier to just trade or buy things off other players. The villagers and npcs don't really keep me busy in NH, so the only gameplay that's left is terraforming/decorating.

Despite what could have been, I still enjoy NH and couldn't go back permanently to NL or HDD. Maybe future updates will add more life to the game and give us more to work with. I'd even be okay with paid DLC as long as it's infrequent and adds a lot.
 
Wow that was definitely a long post but I did get the gist of what you're implying. NH is its own thing, but I still believe it should be compared to its predecessors, especially NL. At the moment, AC is more like DC (Design Crossing), because design simulation is more emphasized than interacting with the animals. They could add more dialogue for animals all they want, but what we really need is more interaction, like house visits. House visits in NL determined villager friendship level but it also gave us a feel of villager interaction. A sense of community and fellowship with other villagers. A crossing with animals. In NH, it feels like they are around, for grins and giggles. As a continuation of the franchise, it should be important to compare it to past games in order to assess not only how gameplay, graphics, etc have improved, but most importantly how animal interaction has improved, which NH hasn't...for now.
 
Recently, I did get several new dialogues when talking to animals. I hope they really improve more in that respect.
 
To me NH is a mix between the two. I loved both NL and HHD for different reasons. Its similar to HHD since there is a lot of decorating but not enough items as HHD. Even though the items we did get in NH are great they are more outside focused. I have a hard time decorating my house in NH since there are not many sets. If I remember correctly in HHD you unlocked different sets as you progressed maybe they can bring back the NL and HHD furniture in a similar way. It’s also similar to NL since you talk to the villagers more. There’s fishing , bug hunting. You did get to decorate some outside but with not having terraforming It was limiting. It is nice that you can now move houses and rocks. I tried going back to NL but the inventory issues and villagers moving out without warning made NL more stressful then NH. This thread does make me want to go back to HHD.
 
tl;dr you've got some good points and i do think the game is lacking in many areas, but to call it hhd 2.0 makes it seem a lot simpler than it actually is

I read through all of the responses but I feel like this response more than others is misunderstanding what I was trying to say. Others basically got the gist of it, but this one in particular is addressing arguments I never made? That could be because my initial post was so long that the overall point I was trying to make became lost in the details. If that's the case, I sincerely apologize. I'm gonna go through your post and see if I can clarify some things on my end.

Ok, to begin, you said:
Adding on to what other people have said here in this thread, and what I've said before in other threads, I think there's a definite trend towards exaggerating an AC game's flaws in criticism of the game, so that there's little soundbites that the AC fanbase can trot out without specifically going into detail with what's wrong with the game.

Villagers aren't just nicer in NL and NH, they're LOBOTOMISED, they're ROBOTS, they're TROPHIES, they're TOYS...

Or in this case, New Horizons is an INSTAGRAM GAME, it's MINECRAFT WITH AN AC SKIN, THIS SERIES USED TO BE ABOUT COMMUNICATION, or IT'S A BUILDING GAME AND NOTHING MORE

This is not at all the point I was trying to make. Much like WW is built on the grounds laid by GC, it does not mean that WW is GC part 2. In the same way, HHD laid the grounds for NH. That doesn't make NH nothing more than a 'building game'. It means that like HHD, building is a heavy focus, but unlike HHD, there's a lot more substance than that. Additionally, what I actually said when it came to villager interactions was not that they were shallow, but that an NH player has to dig a little deeper than they would have had to in past games in order to have interactions beyond surface level. This means that deeper interaction with villagers is there, but primarily only if the player wants it to be. Whereas in past games that interaction was more upfront.

You said:
To say New Horizons doesn't take influence from the spinoff games it made during the 7 year gap between proper AC games isn't lying, and saying the life sim aspect of the game isn't underdeveloped (or in some cases, oversimplified to the form of menus) in a load of ways also isn't lying, but saying that New Horizons is basically just another HHD game, or is JUST a decoration game, is a lie.

But I proved several times over that NH DOES take influence from HHD, quite a bit, in fact. Also, I never said that the life sim aspect was underdeveloped in NH. I said it was underdeveloped in HHD because it wasn't necessary for that game. NH unlike HHD is still a mainline game, the life sim part is still very much alive in NH. Again, the player has to work a little more for it, but its still very much there and just as robust. My primary argument here is that the life sim part of the game has been shifted from being the primary focus to being baked in with the rest of the game's features.

While you make a good point about the flora system being basically broken in NH like it was in HHD, it's undermined by the fact that NH also has a flower breeding system, which HHD doesn't, and the face and hair customisation being moved to a menu (which is good in some ways, like how it allows for different skintones, and bad in some ways, like how it takes a system that had an NPC for it and oversimplifies it).

I never once made the argument that the flora system is broken. The NH flora system is not at all broken. And yes NH does still have a flower breeding system, again it's a mainline game. Mainline features are still there. The difference between NH and the other mainline flora systems is that NH allows the player to treat the flora of the game just like furniture, thereby giving the player more options. This can be evidenced by the fact that flowers don't die when not watered or run over, and also by the fact that even thought the player can't dig up flowers wholesale to display in their house, they can still pluck the petals and display them in cute vases instead. Older mainline games treat the flowers entirely as just flowers. Again, my argument is not that NH is HHD2. Its not HHD2. My argument is that NH, unlike the other mainline games, is primarily predicated on the grounds laid by HHD, rather than on the grounds of its immediate mainline predecessor, NL. This doesn't make it HHD2, much like WW is not GC2.

You also mistake "having an infinite pool of items" for "being able to order 5 items a day and craft other items using however many resources you have at hand",
This completely bypasses my only and entire point about this, which was simply that you are able to order items from your pocket. Nothing more or less. In all other games you had to go to the Nook store to order items. In NH you don't. That feature was introduced in HHD and is revived in NH. That was literally my only point. How much or how many isn't really relevant. The point is simply that the player is able to do it.

"being able to small talk to villagers" for "being able to befriend (with an actual friendship system), find out about their lives before the island and occasionally do things for villagers, even if it isn't as regular or varied as the both of us would like"... it's an argument largely based around going "THIS IS SIMILAR, HENCE THIS IS PROOF THAT AC IS BECOMING HAPPY HOME DESIGNER" and it also acts as if a lot of the game isn't based around communication in order to do these things, whether that be talking to the myriad of daily visitors on offer, your own villagers, or doing the activities that AC is designed around like fishing and bug-catching.

I'm sorry, I don't know how to address this because I literally never said that, nor did I ever make an argument supporting this. The closest thing I can say is that the in-depth villager dialog and interaction, while present, does in fact have to be sought out by the player, whereas in past games it was the villagers that readily engaged. If the player does not seek out engagement, the player will only get simple one-liners from their villagers. That's the closest I can come to addressing this, because again, I never said or argued for this.

If anything, one of the things I like about the game is the fact that every facility feels important. The museum, Harv's Island and NMT islands have all had events on them. Not enough, mind you, not entirely sure why that is exactly, but they all feel valued.

I never made this argument. Again, my point is not that NH was becoming HHD2. It was that HHD laid the groundwork for NHs central theme which is world building and designing. NH is still a mainline game, not a spin-off like HHD. Unlike in HHD, the facilities in NH, however many there are, are going to be important.

While I'm STILL not into the mad overdecorating that some AC players seem to go in for, I'm also not really going to scold people for being into it or worse, act as if it's a massive betrayal of the series' roots, and that communication also doesn't involve sharing things irl, whether that be designs for clothing or designs for villages. As the guy who knows a lot about the JP versions of the GameCube game, the PWP-type thing was introduced in 2003's e+ version, alongside a better-developed friendship system that has a reward (although in that game it was the live version of K.K. Slider's tracks, which is still something I want brought back at some point). These things can obviously coexist, and I honestly want them to in NH. If they don't develop over the next couple of years of the game, I'm honestly going to be disappointed.
Maybe I was unclear, and if so I apologize. But one of my points is that the decorating and designing aspect of NH is a very good thing. In fact, I flat out stated that it was the primary activity I engage in when I play. I'm not scolding anyone for liking that part of the game at all. And its not that communication and decorating can't coexist in AC. They've always coexisted in AC. My point is that in the previous games where decorating was more of an enhanced feature, in NH it's a primary focus. The player can communicate with their villagers and friends, if they want to, and NH DOES in fact encourage communication, as there are rewards for it. With other players: by limiting the color choices of items to either Redd or balloons. The easiest choice would have simply been to put the color choices in the Nookling shop. By limiting that, the players are encouraged(lol I won't say forced) to communicate with each other to get the colors they want. Additionally, using the airport numerous time results in receiving rare airport items. While these items can be received from solo play Nook Island or Harv's island visit, using the airport to travel to a different players island also rewards nook mile points. As for communicating with villagers, players are rewarded with more in-depth dialog, receiving items from villagers, a small mini-game(treasure hunt), and eventually villager photos, which are some of the rarest items in the game.

I hope this clears up some misconceptions I may have in the initial post. And thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my thoughts. :)
 
Last edited:
I really enjoy HHD and I can see the inspiration NH takes from it. At times for me, the game does feel like a larger version of it. But I also think the game ties into pocket camp with crafting. Nintendo encourages people to Link their pocket camp games and their NH game and it’s no Secret that they want to encourage pocket camp players over to NH.

I do agree that the community vibe is much less of a focus now, in NH it’s about creating your own island from the ground up. In previous games you were moving into already established communities and the villagers were agents for our game play. in NH the villagers give a minuscule amount of gameplay.

I play all the AC games, so mu perspective whilst it may not be to everyone’s taste which is fine, Is not rose tinted glasses for a game from years ago I can’t remember, I compare features of NH to an AC game of old I probably played today or yesterday.
 
I'm looking at it as an AC game, and it really doesn't feel like one.

For me, I'm sick of trying to force myself to like this the way I've enjoyed all the other AC games, in the hopes it will improve.

It's missing the fun, not just content.

It's just not a fun game.

Not one single thing you do (for me), is fun.

Grind, grind and grind some more.

I avoid fishing and bug catching because I loathe crafting and customizing tools so they don't break.

The game is the opposite of a fun relaxing game.

I used to get up early, and was actually excited to play NL.

There is no excitement in NH.

Just a heart sinking feeling of dread.

I'm not renewing my nintendo online account, and won't be buying another AC game.

I'm about done.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the response, Kemdi.

I’m generally frustrated with seeing this take because it makes the game out to be shallower than it is, so I ended up ranting at parts of the AC fan base rather than you specifically there, especially at the start and the bit about scolding people, as well as going off on tangents about the community-type stuff that’s in the game already because I don’t see them get enough credit for what they do.

I did get your point about the game taking influence from HHD (and also Pocket Camp, however much I dislike it) because it’s very obviously there, for better or for worse. I just personally don’t see the game as primarily a building simulator... or at the very least, want to believe this game isn’t going to just be a building simulator forever.

One of which is making it so FLOWERS CAN DIE IF YOU WANT THEM TO, GOD THERE’S TOO MANY OF THEM ON MY ISLAND AND DISPOSING OF THEM IS TEDIOUS
 
I'm looking at it as an AC game, and it really doesn't feel like one.

For me, I'm sick of trying to force myself to like this the way I've enjoyed all the other AC games, in the hopes it will improve.

It's missing the fun, not just content.

It's just not a fun game.

Not one single thing you do (for me), is fun.

Grind, grind and grind some more.

I avoid fishing and bug catching because I loathe crafting and customizing tools so they don't break.

The game is the opposite of a fun relaxing game.

I used to get up early, and was actually excited to play NL.

There is no excitement in NH.

Just a heart sinking feeling of dread.

I'm not renewing my nintendo online account, and won't be buying another AC game.

I'm about done.
Out of pure curiosity, I just gotta ask... what’s your deal? Do you still play NH? If so, why do you still play a game where not a single thing you do in it is fun and it gives you a feeling of dread? And if you don’t still play NH, why are you always on this forum posting about why you dislike a game you don’t play?

I wish I could communicate my tone of voice over the internet, because I’m seriously not intending to ask that I’m a rude or badgering way. I’m just genuinely curious! I’ve just lurked on this forum for a while, and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen you post anything positive about NH, so I’m just wondering what you’re getting out of all this.
 
I did not play hhd personally because i heard it was about decorating houses, so i decided against buying it since that was one of my least favorite things to do in new leaf. It was more so the social sim aspect that made me want to try ac.

I adore new horizons for its new features like crafting and terraforming but the social side could use some work. There isnt many types of interactions with villagers, and multiplayer is a little empty since there arent games to play with others. So yeah, it seems like we both might be playing the two games the same way when it comes to what kinds of activities we spend most of our playtime on. New horizons is still getting updates though, so hopefully they improve on those things that some of us want.
 
Back
Top