Your thoughts on humor when it comes to offensive/ traumatic things?
- Thread starter Miii
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KaydeeKrunk
The Late Great Turt
They're offensive and traumatic?
Like I mean really you have to know your audience, but I joke about terrible things that happened in my past (sometimes I think to cover up the fact they happened) and other people will go off on me about joking about them because "they knew someone that happened to" like bruh, happened to me but I'm still joking about it... IDK
I try to be careful but things slip sometimes, I never MEAN to offend anybody but you can never really know if you're gunna trigger someone until it happens...:/
Like I mean really you have to know your audience, but I joke about terrible things that happened in my past (sometimes I think to cover up the fact they happened) and other people will go off on me about joking about them because "they knew someone that happened to" like bruh, happened to me but I'm still joking about it... IDK
I try to be careful but things slip sometimes, I never MEAN to offend anybody but you can never really know if you're gunna trigger someone until it happens...:/
nintendoanna
Senior Member
I have a dark sense of humor and I laugh at something no matter how offensive it is I'm just not that type of person to be offended easily but it really depends if someone is saying the joke seriously like if they believe what they're saying then that to me is when it's ****ed up but I know a lot of people who are the complete opposite so now I learned to keep my mouth shut around people I don't know well
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charade501
501
I like dark humor a lot.
Yes, I definitely agree with the OP. I myself tend to use humor as a coping mechanism whenever i'm feeling sad I tend to just crack a few jokes to make myself feel a little better or at least make somebody else feel better. I enjoy making other people happy so it's no surprise that even when i'm sad I still tend to get one or two jokes out. Which in turn makes me feel better because i've made somebody else feel better. Don't get me wrong i'm not a comedian, but even the little things can make me smile. If that doesn't work though another way I cope is looking at funny threads on the internet, by the time i'm finished reading them i'm laughing so much and I forget what was bothering me.
I don't mind dark humor at all, infact I do laugh at dark humor jokes but there's just some dark humor jokes that can go a little too far for me personally. I'm not a serious person though so it's very rare that i'm deeply offended by a dark humour joke. Or any kind of joke, however if the person sounds serious about what they're saying that's when it's not okay. I do make a lot of dark humor jokes that are quite morbid, I won't lie.
I don't mind dark humor at all, infact I do laugh at dark humor jokes but there's just some dark humor jokes that can go a little too far for me personally. I'm not a serious person though so it's very rare that i'm deeply offended by a dark humour joke. Or any kind of joke, however if the person sounds serious about what they're saying that's when it's not okay. I do make a lot of dark humor jokes that are quite morbid, I won't lie.
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amanda1983
Senior Member
...
Rape culture is not a "thing" in America?
...
Really?
...
Surely the name Brock Turner should be enough to show how very very much of a thing rape culture is in America, as it is in much of the West still, and indeed the world. Not just parts of the Middle East and Mexico (which I hadn't heard about in this context until now, but I live on the other side of the world).
Have you read the victim impact statement in that case? It is nothing short of a damning indictment of the US justice system and the many, many ways it - and society in general - lets victims of rape down. Every. Single. Day. The same is true in Australia, from personal experience.
I was the victim of a (very minor, as these things go) sexual assault. I reported it to police and agreed to make a statement which would cause an investigation, which ultimately resulted in him being charged and then convicted of the highest of the charges, as it was proven in a court of law that he did indecently assault my body. His sentence? A few hours of community service. This was the maximum sentence the Crown prosecution felt could be reliably maintained if appealed by my attacker. The actual maximum was only more community service and a fine of a few thousand $. For utterly and completely derailing my entire life, and that of my family and friends. I don't bring this up for sympathy, or to be exempt from criticism. But at the trial, his legal team, his witnesses, and he himself made frequent mention of the volunteer work he did on a private all-girls school board. He pled for a not guilty verdict in part to protect his ability to continue in that role, which put him into direct contact with young girls who looked just like me (I was in my early 20s but barely looked 14, and he had absolutely no reason to think I was older than that at the time of his attack). As each person testified what a loving husband and father he was, how valued his contributions were to his community.. all I could think of how the police officers had spent days and weeks trying to find any hint of any criminal proceedings in his past, as they were convinced from my evidence and his that he was an extremely experienced predator. But he focussed on young teens, or those he took to be such. And he had long since perfected his shtick to get away with his assaults. I was the very first recorded victim, but we have no idea how many dozens, hundreds, thousands of victims he attacked over his lifetime (he was older, elderly by some standards). All officials involved suspected hundreds, and I have no reason to doubt that. But not one person speaking in his defence at trial seemed to have realised that what they were saying had precisely nothing to do with the charges in question. A fact the Magistrate pointed out in her judgement. They all just seemed to genuinely believe that his life, his ability to continue on as he had been, was the most important thing. THAT is rape culture in action. That automatic dismissal of the consequences of the rapists/sexual predator, that automatic presumption that I was "in it" for something, had chosen to target this man and ruin him just for fun. Because I have no possible other reason for claiming to have been assaulted.. since he's such a good man and all. And had never been convicted of anything before me.
Yet despite how frequently his volunteer work was raised, how much detail was covered (on purpose, to try and paint him as sympathetic and just a regular person doing their best to help)... not one aspect of my life could be touched on without officially handing the defence carte blanch to question me on the ins and outs of every aspect of that part of my life. I spent the months leading up to trial utterly terrified that he'd lie and say something that meant the police needed to question my sister, who was 11 at the time of the assault. He had spoken to us both whilst door knocking (for charity, though paid work so not as noble as it sounds), and it would have been blindingly obvious I was protective of her. I was advised before making a statement what the "risks" were. And him trying to bully me into dropping things before the Crown prosecutor became involved was the top of the list, with my sister as the most likely weapon. They showed me the setup they had for children, and made sure my mother and I both agreed that questioning could occur if required. It was as nice as they could manage.. but it was an interview room in a police station. We even had to go over how remote testimony worked in case he suddenly lied in court and my sister was required to testify, as she wouldn't have to appear in court, so long as she was in a special (horrible) room for hours on end to be questioned by both sides..
He was treated as a whole person, basically the victim and I was, functionally, the attacker who needed to be above reproach in order to even be heard, let alone believed. That is very different to a presumption of innocence; he was able to offer many examples of him "doing the right thing" and back this up ad hoc, whilst I was confined to preexisting testimony (which outlined the attack and time either side, nothing personal) and questions to establish setting etc. If this was only occuring in court due to the complexity if these cases, I'd still consider that unacceptable. But it's not. "What was she wearing?" "Why was she alone?" are two of the most commonly asked questions for a woman* who has been raped or sexually assualted. Because we're not the victims, we're the ones rocking the status quo by raising these unpleasant topics. And not as jokes, either.
My attacker held all the cards. Had I not had such supportive parents, had I not done everything "right" in the eyes of the justice system by reporting the assault as soon as I could speak, had I not been willing to risk inflicting a criminal witness interview on my baby sister... he was home free. He thought I was a child at the time, but the reality of me being in my 20s didn't change much except my increased confidence in standing up for what is right even when it's the hardest option. At every stage of the investigation, he held all the power, and this was especially true during the trial. If I lost focus for any reason, "opened the door" to any subject such as why I was at home with my sister on a school day, or just got sick of the (despicable) questioning from his solicitor... then the prosecution's case was sunk. It all relied upon me, as assault cases generally do. But. Sexual assault has particular "rules" and actual rules applied. There are dead set legal requirements to be followed.. and then there is the issue of credibility. Any aspect of my personal life could be used as a weapon, but only the ones directly related to his attack on me could be used against him, regardless of the openings he left.
And this experience going through the trial process mirrors real life. A natural consequence of our justice system striving not to convict innocent parties (leaving aside how frequently this gets ignored for minorities) is that rapists and people who are sexual predators *will* be declared not guilty even when they did commit the acts in question. But. Despite all the evidence-based research, all the studies which show time and again that rapists do NOT usually "stand out" as rapists, that they are adept at blending in and allaying any suspicions raised until a critical mass of evidence accumulates... society, in general, still likes to think of rapists as big bad evil monsters who aren't like *us*. Yet they are. Children are statistically much more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted by a direct family member or trusted friend of the family than they are a stramger. Yet we still have so many people teaching children about "stranger danger" instead of healthy boundaries around our bodies.
I don't actually care what the intentions of my attacker were when he grabbed and moved aside my clothing to grab my at my bare breast, squeezing hard enough to leave his handprint (though not enough to bruise, he was too practiced for that). When his solicitor suggested the intention behind his client's actions was surely to compliment me, it was all I could do not to stand up and begin a very eloquent lecture as to how irrelevant intentions are when *grabbing and squeezing the bare breast of a person he thought was a child by legal definition*. Again, the Magistrate noted this in her judgement.
I am an educator of young children. One of the very hardest lessons for toddlers to understand is that their intentions actually DO NOT matter if they have hurt someone as a result of their actions (or lack thereof). Physically or emotionally. Intentions matter, yes, but NEVER cancel out the consequences. They may explain, even mitigate the hurt caused. But intentions alone are not enough. Intentions alone can never remove the responsibility to deal with the situation happening now, regardless of if you meant it or not. That is simply not how life works.
I would not ever raise the attack on me to a child in my care, I provide examples relavant to their age and stage of development. Since rape and sexual assault were raised here, I decided to offer a suitable example. I apologise for my wordiness, and for possibly oversharing but under the circumstances, I believe a real life example to be fitting here. And this is mine.
* I say women here purely because that is what my experience and that of the victim of Brock Turner relate to. I am well aware such questions get asked in cases of male rape, too, however the line of questioning is (generally) different as it focuses more on if the victim appeared to be gay, which is not purely a problem of rape culture in that context.
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visibleghost
ʕ •̀ o •́ ʔ
^ i read about the brock dude you mentioned online because i hadn't heard about it before and .... ew.
both in your case and in the case with that gross guy the victim blaming was strong af.
while i get that ppl need defense in legal situations so they don't get sentenced to jail because of a crime they did not commit, it's not okay to reinforce rape culture in those gross ways.
if i were to murder someone and then say "oh i murdered them because i really thought they were a great person, it was a compliment!" newspapers would mock me and i'd be sentenced to a long time in prison. if i said "well, i thought they wanted to be killed!" it would not be okay.
in situations when someone cannot consent (drunk, underage, unconsious etc) or does not consent (consent means saying yes to everything, if someone consents to one thing it doesnt automatically means they consent to snother thing) it is always a sexual assault.
and defense ppl being like "oh but he's a nice guy!!!!!!" ... just.. wtf.. yeah but he is guilty of sexual assault, would you give a failing kid an A just because he's nice to his friends? lmao **** off
hjdlssk this post is kind of a mess but yeah uh in conclusion rape culture is a thing and i'm sick of boys and men getting away with sexual assault, rape and other stuff because people feel sorry for them?
both in your case and in the case with that gross guy the victim blaming was strong af.
while i get that ppl need defense in legal situations so they don't get sentenced to jail because of a crime they did not commit, it's not okay to reinforce rape culture in those gross ways.
if i were to murder someone and then say "oh i murdered them because i really thought they were a great person, it was a compliment!" newspapers would mock me and i'd be sentenced to a long time in prison. if i said "well, i thought they wanted to be killed!" it would not be okay.
in situations when someone cannot consent (drunk, underage, unconsious etc) or does not consent (consent means saying yes to everything, if someone consents to one thing it doesnt automatically means they consent to snother thing) it is always a sexual assault.
and defense ppl being like "oh but he's a nice guy!!!!!!" ... just.. wtf.. yeah but he is guilty of sexual assault, would you give a failing kid an A just because he's nice to his friends? lmao **** off
hjdlssk this post is kind of a mess but yeah uh in conclusion rape culture is a thing and i'm sick of boys and men getting away with sexual assault, rape and other stuff because people feel sorry for them?
amanda1983
Senior Member
Your post makes perfect sense to me visibleghost! Yes the Brock Turner case is just completely gross. The victim impact statement is powerful stuff, and is being recommended as required reading for teens and older preteens here in order to help educate about the horrific realities of rape. All parents I know who've I talked about this case with - Brock Turner is a very recognisable name, so it comes up a lot - have either already talked about this with their child/ren, or plan to when their young children are older. It looks like this case will at least be used for good, if only because of how very very badly that victim was treated which led to her victim impact statement.
Your examples are spot on, and illustrate how insidious rape culture is. If someone breaks into a car and steals it, the victim isn't on trial. The person who broke into the car and stole it is. "Well I thought they wanted their car to be stolen!" is not a defence which requires the victim to prove they did not, in fact, want their car stolen... the beginning premise is that someone stealing a car is wrong. The thief being a really nice person can come up for trying to reduce the sentence, sure. But if raised as a defence against conviction in spite of clear evidence they commited the crime? No. No one takes that seriously.
But a rapist? Well that's obviously different. And all the jokes about rape just continue to normalise the horrifying reality that victims of rape and sexual assaults will continue to be victimised throughout the entire legal process, while the perpetrator is given every possible societal pass. Because as a society we don't like rape or rapists... but not enough to stop blaming the victims for highlighting how "normal" those attackers are. Society really doesn't like that reality at all.
Your examples are spot on, and illustrate how insidious rape culture is. If someone breaks into a car and steals it, the victim isn't on trial. The person who broke into the car and stole it is. "Well I thought they wanted their car to be stolen!" is not a defence which requires the victim to prove they did not, in fact, want their car stolen... the beginning premise is that someone stealing a car is wrong. The thief being a really nice person can come up for trying to reduce the sentence, sure. But if raised as a defence against conviction in spite of clear evidence they commited the crime? No. No one takes that seriously.
But a rapist? Well that's obviously different. And all the jokes about rape just continue to normalise the horrifying reality that victims of rape and sexual assaults will continue to be victimised throughout the entire legal process, while the perpetrator is given every possible societal pass. Because as a society we don't like rape or rapists... but not enough to stop blaming the victims for highlighting how "normal" those attackers are. Society really doesn't like that reality at all.
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I like dark humor, but I do draw a line. If someone "jokes" about killing people or raping someone or harming themselves, especially if I can't hear their tone of voice, I'm going to have to take that "joke" seriously.
That Zephyr Guy
crouton.net
Humor is fantastic at dealing with trauma, but not everyone deals with trauma the same way.
If someone is uncomfortable at you making jokes about their trauma, or someone else's, and you don't stop, then you're kind of a douche. End of story.
If someone is uncomfortable at you making jokes about their trauma, or someone else's, and you don't stop, then you're kind of a douche. End of story.
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LethalLulu
Hi, buy, bye
It depends on the kind of traumatic event for me. Some things are good to reflect on in a humorous ways, but other things I'd rather let rot in the dark and never thought of again. Everyone's different, so just respect how they feel.
I read your post, and I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know that there are a lot of flaws in our legal system, particularly when it comes to defense attorneys. In America, even if someone admits to their defense attorney that they did in fact commit a crime, it's still the job of their defense attorney to defend them. Even if a defense attorney genuinely believes that person it guilty, they have to defend them. I see why that's the case (if they weren't forced to defend them no matter what, the system could be far more easily manipulated in favor of convicting people that aren't guilty), but I agree with you that it's a very flawed system.
I also agree with you that good deeds someone has done in the past should hold no relevance in a trial against them, and I'm glad that at least in your case your Magistrate made note of that. When I said rape culture wasn't a thing in America, I was saying that rape is not accepted here as an okay thing to do by the vast majority of our people, and I was comparing America to places where rape culture is truly prevalent. In the case of Brock Turner, yes the judge gave him a far too lenient sentence, but people all over the country were outraged by it. I think almost any American reading up on that case would be outraged by it, which says something about our culture. The power to convict and charge people for crimes lies in the hands of a few select people, and while reading your story made me see a greater need for change in how we deal with rape and sexual assault cases, I don't think the failure of of those select few to give criminals what they really deserve should speak for America's culture as a whole.
I don't mean to discredit your experience, or those of other rape and sexual assault victims by continuing to argue my point. Reading your post opened my eyes to what it's like to be the victim of crime like that facing inadequate judicial action. Again, I'm sorry you went through that, and I hope the disgusting person that put his hands on you faces a sentence he deserves.
That Zephyr Guy
crouton.net
100% Agree about pedophiles - I've heard countless stories about prisoners shunning pedophiles.
100% Disagree about other criminals. You've heard of prison rape, right? It's still a thing and our correctional system doesn't really do anything about it, hell it even perpetuates it.
So no, criminals for the most part don't really care.
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The fact that rapists can get away with rape at all still means rape culture is a problem even if "the vast majority of people" are disgusted by it. Even if it isn't as big of a problem in one place than another it's still a huge problem and still needs to be focused upon because the world isn't in a game of rape culture olympics
I'm glad you mentioned that considering it's not unusual for imprisoned pedophiles to be punished by other inmates by being violated
I'm glad you mentioned that considering it's not unusual for imprisoned pedophiles to be punished by other inmates by being violated
That Zephyr Guy
crouton.net
To be honest, nobody is going to be able to convince me rape culture in America doesn't exist when only a few years back during the Steubenville rape case - after the boys in the question had gone around and undressed, violated, and photographed the girl without her permission, there were countless people complaining about how people were "ruining these boys' future" while completely disregarding the girl.
The bolded text. That's rape culture in a nutshell.
The bolded text. That's rape culture in a nutshell.
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LethalLulu
Hi, buy, bye
The other thing about rape culture is when it is sexual harassment, such as cat calling. People will encourage the cat calling because "oh, she shouldn't be wearing that, she's asking for it". That's absolute bullcrap. People should be able to wear what they want without negative comments. Also cosplay is a huge issue, as noted in this video:
This kind of thing should never be accepted, and as one who happens to cosplay skimpy characters (Jinx, Katarina, Roadhog) simply because I love them, I never want to deal with this disrespect. Luckily I've never personally had issues, but if I did, I would never stand for it.
- - - Post Merge - - -
This. It's also legal to take upskirt photos of girls. Completely. Legal. This is utterly disgusting. At least it's illegal in Austrailia, go Australia!
Edit - underage girls included in the "legal" part.
This kind of thing should never be accepted, and as one who happens to cosplay skimpy characters (Jinx, Katarina, Roadhog) simply because I love them, I never want to deal with this disrespect. Luckily I've never personally had issues, but if I did, I would never stand for it.
- - - Post Merge - - -
This. It's also legal to take upskirt photos of girls. Completely. Legal. This is utterly disgusting. At least it's illegal in Austrailia, go Australia!
Edit - underage girls included in the "legal" part.
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