Tropes vs Women in Video Games

[ACNiko]

Anita Sarkeesian is a Canadian media critic and feminist who has created a web series on YouTube called Tropes vs Women in Video Games. In the episodes, she examines the representation of women in video games.

Here's the first episode out of five (so far) of the series:

Has anyone else seen this series? What do you think of it?

Personally, I think it's great. I've been watching every episode, and there are more episodes to come. I know that there are many critics to this series that are claiming that Sarkeesian is wrong in her statements and that she is "too extreme", while I completely disagree with those people. The shamefully low number of women, stereotypics and sexism in video games, or in any media, is a problem that most people don't take seriously.

Anyways, I would love to hear your opinions on the series.

Also, keep in mind that, as Sarkeesian herself says, you can enjoy a media while at the same time be critical of some parts of it.

 

[oath2order]

I don't take her too seriously, to be honest.

From what I've seen all it looks like is she's looking for sexism in everything.

Granted there is sexism in video games no doubt but I just don't think it's as big a problem as she's making it out to be.

 

[MisterEnigma]

I disagree with her a lot, and agreed with oath, there ARE definite issues in gaming and in video games, but Anita addresses them from an entirely awkward angle that usually isn't supported by facts. I've only seen a few of her videos, but they were enough to see she had no idea what she was talking about. I'm not against feminism or changing media to encourage more positive and fair thinking, but as far as rational discussion supported by understanding and logic, Anita is the last person I'd trust to tackle such an issue. I encourage everyone to please make sure you get your facts and opinions from reliable sources, don't let people on Youtube speak or think for you. That isn't intended to insult anyone who likes or agrees with Anita, it's just very easy for people to lose themselves in an opinion they think is right, but is actually very skewed.

 

[radical6]

I don't really care much about her videos. I mean I should since I like social justice and all, and I think she's trying to make a nice message, but I don't really focus on video games. I don't care honestly. Representation is important, I'll agree with that. But I'm too lazy to watch her videos lol. Idk, her feminism just seems very bland to me. From what I remember all she really talks about is women in media, which is fine, but fails to talk about people of color and disabled representation in media. Her haters are way too extreme though. But I can't connect with her videos. I mean her videos are helpful for newbie feminists, but that's about it.

Edit: I read a bit more into her and she's not liked by all feminists. Especially sex workers. Well, that's pretty much the reason I don't care about her then. Her feminism isn't for everyone if she throws sex workers under the bus. Lots of more privileged feminists do this, and I tend to ignore them. They might think they're helping but they're not. Or they simply don't care.

You can watch her videos, I don't mind. But there are far better feminists out there to listen to and to study from. She is not one of them.

 

[Reindeer]

Anita Sarkeesian is a piece of **** that took money from a community that she doesn't even respect. While I'm all for gender equality, her points are often daft and one-sided, not to mention she doesn't even play video games so why is she even complaining about them.

 

[Cudon]

I hate it when people judge classics with their feminism. Companies do what's best for them and if a simple damsel in distress game is what the fans want they will get it. I mean dammit Mario is an old concept that comes from simpler times when plots barely existed. Peach has been in smash bros games, she has her own game, was important in Sunshine and is respected by Nintendo as a character yet still shes given the title 'Damsel in distress'

Oh also anyone aiming to be a professional reviewer shouldn't ask for money to buy games to review. That's just wrong.

lying to your own supporters is not acceptable either

Anita is one of the few people who bring the rage in me. She can go **** herself and I hope her career burns.

 

[ACNiko]

MisterEnigma: Can you give any examples on where she doesn't use facts?

Tsundere: Well, she does focus on gender equality, so it's not that strange that she doesn't mention anything about the representation of none white people in video games. If you watch her latest episode (I think it's episode 5), she does mention something about racism in games. Of course, there should be a debate on the representation of non white people and racism in video games, but why should that only be Sarkeesian's responsibility?

Reindeer: Sarkeesian has been extremely harassed and threatened after publishing these videos, so you have no right to call her things like that. You don't have to agree with her, but you don't have to say things like that either. By the way, she does play video games, and if you watched the video and read my first post, she even points out that it is possible to enjoy a video game while being critical at the same time.

 

[MisterEnigma]

I hate it when people judge classics with their feminism. Companies do what's best for them and if a simple damsel in distress game is what the fans want they will get it. I mean dammit Mario is an old concept that comes from simpler times when plots barely existed. Peach has been in smash bros games, she has her own game, was important in Sunshine and is respected by Nintendo as a character yet still shes given the title 'Damsel in distress'

Oh also anyone aiming to be a professional reviewer shouldn't ask for money to buy games to review. That's just wrong.

Also lying to your own supporters is not acceptable

This is actually why I don't care for Anita as a feminist or a reviewer.

For example, Anita refuses to acknowledge any of the newer games where Peach is either a protagonist or plays an active, athletic role, claiming they aren't "main games." If you literally have to ignore 10-15 games where the female you're talking about isn't a damsel in distress, to support your claim that she is in fact a damsel in distress, that is a stretch, and that is utterly wrong. That's like sticking your fingers in your ears going, "NANANANA" because "PEACH WAS A DAMSEL BACK IN THE 80's SO THAT MEANS SHE IS ALWAYS ONE ALL THE TIME." It simply isn't true.

Peach isn't what I'd call a perfect female protagonist by any stretch of the imagination, but that's no reason to ignore games and characters that are trying to be more progressive. Heck, in Super Paper Mario, Peach is a playable, active protagonist that helps save the world. And now we're seeing more and more games where stronger females are emerging.

I'm not saying the video game industry is perfect. It is far from perfect. But with every generation, we're making progress. Anita only ever looks backwards, and we can't move on like that.

 

[ACNiko]

I just wanted to discuss the series in a mature way. If you are going to keep talking like that about Sarkeesian, I will have to close this thread.

 

[MisterEnigma]

I just wanted to discuss the series in a mature way. If you are going to keep talking like that about Sarkeesian, I will have to close this thread.

You came here to have a rational discussion about Anita's viewpoints in her videos. If people disagree with her videos and your stance, that's no reason to close the thread, people just have different opinions about her than you do. I certainly haven't said anything mean or rude about her, I simply don't agree with her views or how she supports them. That doesn't in any way mean that I hate her or hate people who agree on her stances.

Plus, if you do any research on her, you'll see that Reindeer's claims aren't unfounded in the slightest.

 

[Shirohibiki]

I just wanted to discuss the series in a mature way. If you are going to keep talking like that about Sarkeesian, I will have to close this thread.

this is literally the definition of a mature discussion

youre the one whos immature for not being able to handle adverse opinions, bro.

 

[Nerd House]

Plus, if you do any research on her, you'll see that Reindeer's claims aren't unfounded in the slightest.

This. She has earned everything she's gotten thrown at her. There's much more to it than just her YouTube videos.

 

[ACNiko]

For example, Anita refuses to acknowledge any of the newer games where Peach is either a protagonist or plays an active, athletic role, claiming they aren't "main games." If you literally have to ignore 10-15 games where the female you're talking about isn't a damsel in distress, to support your claim that she is in fact a damsel in distress, that is a stretch, and that is utterly wrong. That's like sticking your fingers in your ears going, "NANANANA" because "PEACH WAS A DAMSEL BACK IN THE 80's SO THAT MEANS SHE IS ALWAYS ONE ALL THE TIME." It simply isn't true.

Peach isn't what I'd call a perfect female protagonist by any stretch of the imagination, but that's no reason to ignore games and characters that are trying to be more progressive. Heck, in Super Paper Mario, Peach is a playable, active protagonist that helps save the world. And now we're seeing more and more games where stronger females are emerging.

I'm not saying the video game industry is perfect. It is far from perfect. But with every generation, we're making progress. Anita only ever looks backwards, and we can't move on like that.

Well, she has been a damsel in distress for 99 % of the Mario Games. I can only think of Super Princess Peach, Paper Mario and Super Mario Bros. 2 where she was a playable character. And now we're talking about Mario platformers, not games like Mario Kart 8 or Super Smash Bros.

The reason why she is talking about the games from the past is to describe how and why the video games still today are representing women in a similar way. Yes, in some gaming series, women have become stronger and with more important roles, but there are still a lot of games which are about a man protagonist saving a female damsel in distress. I really recommend watching the entire series since they're all connected.

- - - Post Merge - - -

this is literally the definition of a mature discussion

youre the one whos immature for not being able to handle adverse opinions, bro.

There's a difference between being critical against a person in a mature way and making comments like these:

Anita Sarkeesian is a piece of ****

She can go **** herself and I hope her career burns.

Be as critical as you want towards Sarkeesian. I did absolutely not expect everyone to like her. But please don't make comments like these.

 

[radical6]

I just wanted to discuss the series in a mature way. If you are going to keep talking like that about Sarkeesian, I will have to close this thread.

What? I'm criticizing her for good reasons. I am not an anti feminist or anti sj, I do not hate this woman for speaking about feminism. While some others have been a bit harsh about her and I don't 100% agree with their criticism, they have a bit of a point. (She ignores her supporters for an example)

Tsundere: Well, she does focus on gender equality, so it's not that strange that she doesn't mention anything about the representation of none white people in video games. If you watch her latest episode (I think it's episode 5), she does mention something about racism in games. Of course, there should be a debate on the representation of non white people and racism in video games, but why should that only be Sarkeesian's responsibility?

She wants equality? Then she must focus on all groups. Feminism that only focuses on cis white women is not feminism. Read up more about feminism. And I like how you completely ignore how she throws sex workers under the bus. Just because she's a feminist you care about doesn't mean you should excuse things she does. She has speaking power, she has the fans, but she doesn't want to talk about it? So many feminists speak about racism, poverty, transmisogyny, etc but they never get heard. She has the POWER to influence others but does nothing. Stop excusing her.

 

[Shirohibiki]

i actually just went through and read some of these posts and i literally cannot believe what im reading rn. im shocked. you start this thread inviting for a mature discussion, and as SOON as people start disagreeing, you go super white knight and blindly throw around your holy water.

"Of course, there should be a debate on the representation of non white people and racism in video games, but why should that only be Sarkeesian's responsibility?" bECAUSE ITS PART OF FEMINISM aND EQUALITY?? ? ???? OHhhHHH OH,,, MY GOD,,, oh my god,, i need a drink after this one holy ****, youre acting like cis white women are the only ones who need feminism what are you even saying rn

"so you have no right to call her things like that" why not? he can say whatever he damn well wants, especially if this woman is spouting useless drivel. you have your opinion, and so does he. case closed.

reading the other responses, you seem to be ignoring facts people are giving you and keep yelling "BEGONE DEMONS" and flailing around. dude, im not even part of this discussion and i see how childish youre being. if you dont like adverse opinions, dont state you want a mature discussion. your retaliations are anything but mature.

 

[Cudon]

Niko do you understand. Those old games were made on really limited hardware. The players at that time cared for the gameplay only aswell. They didn't care for the plot or the princess. Mario was a good game because of the controls, gameplay and such. Not because it involved a kidnapped princess. Nintendo has been trying to recreate these classics alot aswell. Both for the fans and for the sake of dosh and since these classic games involved the simple plot of a princess being kidnapped its brought back. However Nintendo doesn't only remake old classics they also try out new stuff and in said new stuff Nintendo has been sure of giving a Peach atleast a decent role. However Anita flat out ignores the new stuff.

 

[Reindeer]

Be as critical as you want towards Sarkeesian. I did absolutely not expect everyone to like her. But please don't make comments like these.

Sorry, but you do know that I said that because she cheated people out of their money, and then still basically expects them to protect her, right? If you see a community throwing money at something and then basically being shat on, it kinda deserves those kind of sentiments.

Not to mention she turns a blind eye to a lot of things and steals from people, thus pocketing the money she was given by people that trusted her. If that's not the definition of "piece of ****" then I don't know what is.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And honestly, Anita has done more damage to feminists/gender equality movements than good.

 

[ACNiko]

What? I'm criticizing her for good reasons. I am not an anti feminist or anti sj, I do not hate this woman for speaking about feminism. While some others have been a bit harsh about her and I don't 100% agree with their criticism, they have a bit of a point. (She ignores her supporters for an example)

Yes, that comment was meant for Reindeer and Dinomates. I have absolutely no problem with people who are criticizing her, but I don't like it when people make hateful comments.

 

[MisterEnigma]

Well, she has been a damsel in distress for 99 % of the Mario Games. I can only think of Super Princess Peach, Paper Mario and Super Mario Bros. 2 where she was a playable character. And now we're talking about Mario platformers, not games like Mario Kart 8 or Super Smash Bros.

The reason why she is talking about the games from the past is to describe how and why the video games still today are representing women in a similar way. Yes, in some gaming series, women have become stronger and with more important roles, but there are still a lot of games which are about a man protagonist saving a female damsel in distress. I really recommend watching the entire series since they're all connected.

Princess Peach is playable in many games, with active roles, and you're perpetuating the same stance as Anita, that games like Mario Kart or sports games in the franchise "don't count" towards a character's canon or history. Mario games have never focused much on stories, the only games where they do are the Paper series, and the RPG's, that's where most of the development for characters come from. The older games operate on mechanics that were much simpler in development, so using them as a basis for any argument is no longer concrete. And aside from Princess Peach, Nintendo alone has conjured many memorable and important female characters, such as Mimi from Super Paper Mario, Cackletta from Superstar Saga, Rosalina from Super Mario Galaxy, Flurrie from The Thousand Year Door. These are all females that don't play a damsel role whatsoever, yet we continue to affix our stance because Princess Peach has been a damsel in a handful of games.

As for Princess Zelda, or heck, even Midna who ends up being revealed as a princess, to say that they are throwaways in a Zelda game is wrong on so many levels. So Princess Zelda isn't beating everything up 24/7 or rescuing Link, that makes her a weak character? Was Midna weak when she broke Link out, while he was a wolf?

Instead of asking why more females aren't saving men, here are some questions I encourage people to consider-

1.) Are women only strong protagonists if they act like men?
2.) Are strong women protagonists only strong if they aren't dainty, don't like pink, or don't love anyone?
3.) Is the way we're expecting women to act as protagonists just as offensive and limiting as damsels are depicted?

I feel like Anita doesn't come at anything with understanding, she's perpetuating just as harmful ideas as she's opposing. People will have a very biased view of feminism through her.

I don't disagree with her or you on the basic principle of things still needing to change though. I absolutely want to strive for better representation, but I don't feel like she has a handle on what that representation should be.

 

[Shirohibiki]

Yes, that comment was meant for Reindeer and Dinomates. I have absolutely no problem with people who are criticizing her, but I don't like it when people make hateful comments.

ah. my apologies then, about that bit, because i didnt understand what you meant. but even so, youre turning your blinders on and holy damn, dude.

edit: also, i dont think their hate is wrong. they have an informed opinion, and therefore, i think their hatred is justified. thats just me tho.