Tropes vs Women in Video Games

[radical6]

She wants equality? Then she must focus on all groups. Feminism that only focuses on cis white women is not feminism. Read up more about feminism. And I like how you completely ignore how she throws sex workers under the bus. Just because she's a feminist you care about doesn't mean you should excuse things she does. She has speaking power, she has the fans, but she doesn't want to talk about it? So many feminists speak about racism, poverty, transmisogyny, etc but they never get heard. She has the POWER to influence others but does nothing. Stop excusing her.

Quoting just in case you didn't see.
But here's the thing, you are not listening to criticism of Anita. And frankly I'm more upset about your defense of her. "It's not her responsibility" Then whose job is it? From what I remember during your feminism thread, you don't seem to focus much on other forms of oppression other than misogyny. You cannot destroy misogyny without destroying other forms of oppression. Please, go read up on other feminists. Anita doesn't deserve her fame.

Hope I didn't sound too mean, lol. I'm trying to keep it calm but I get heated during SJ discussions. Don't mean any harm, just disgareeing. Sorry if I hurt your feelings ): But yeah, Anita is not great.

 

[ACNiko]

ah. my apologies then, about that bit, because i didnt understand what you meant. but even so, youre turning your blinders on and holy damn, dude.

edit: also, i dont think their hate is wrong. they have an informed opinion, and therefore, i think their hatred is justified. thats just me tho.

I shouldn't have taken this debate in English, because I suck at English, lol.

About what you said in your other post: Of course anti-racism is just as important as feminism. They're even connected. To me, feminism is the idea of everyone being equal, but with the focus on women's rights. So yes, one can be critical towards Sarkesian's series because she doesn't bring up the issue of racism and the representation of non white people and LGBTQ people in video games.

Uh, I feel so hated right now..

 

[Shirohibiki]

I shouldn't have taken this debate in English, because I suck at English, lol.

About what you said in your other post: Of course anti-racism is just as important as feminism. They're even connected. To me, feminism is the idea of everyone being equal, but with the focus on women's rights. So yes, one can be critical towards Sarkesian's series because she doesn't bring up the issue of racism and the representation of non white people and LGBTQ people in video games.

Uh, I feel so hated right now..

ok lemme just say this first: I DONT HATE YOU I JUST SOUND LIKE A JERK ALL THE TIME BECAUSE IVE BEEN SUPER IRRITABLE LATELY
so im sorry, i just bark a lot, im mean

and well, there we go we conceded on a point. and its p much the only point i have because i refuse to watch that drivel, especially now with reading other criticisms. but yeah i was just getting salty bc it looked like you were ignoring other facts and stuff, so im sorry.

 

[MisterEnigma]

I shouldn't have taken this debate in English, because I suck at English, lol.

About what you said in your other post: Of course anti-racism is just as important as feminism. They're even connected. To me, feminism is the idea of everyone being equal, but with the focus on women's rights. So yes, one can be critical towards Sarkesian's series because she doesn't bring up the issue of racism and the representation of non white people and LGBTQ people in video games.

Uh, I feel so hated right now..

I'm sorry, I didn't realize English wasn't your first language. My apologies if I used any phrases that are confusing. Please don't feel hated though, I don't think it's anyone's intention to make you feel badly, I think people are just frustrated with Anita's presentation and character as a whole. It's just a debate though, don't worry about anyone hating you. Just try to keep an open mind, and maybe learn something new.

 

[ACNiko]

Quoting just in case you didn't see.
But here's the thing, you are not listening to criticism of Anita. And frankly I'm more upset about your defense of her. "It's not her responsibility" Then whose job is it? From what I remember during your feminism thread, you don't seem to focus much on other forms of oppression other than misogyny. You cannot destroy misogyny without destroying other forms of oppression. Please, go read up on other feminists. Anita doesn't deserve her fame.

Hope I didn't sound too mean, lol. I'm trying to keep it calm but I get heated during SJ discussions. Don't mean any harm, just disgareeing. But yeah, Anita is not great.

I also wish that she would bring up racism in video games, and as I said, she does, at least a little bit. But if no one appreciate her for bringing up the problem of gender inequality in video games, would they appreciate her for bringing up racism?

So sorry once again for my lack of English skills...

 

[radical6]

I also wish that she would bring up racism in video games, and as I said, she does, at least a little bit. But if no one appreciate her for bringing up the problem of gender inequality in video games, would they appreciate her for bringing up racism?

So sorry once again for my lack of English skills...

The haters will still hate her for anything she says, but her fan base can learn a lot more if she chose to talk about it more and go into deeper topics. But still, her comment about sex workers wasn't okay. Your english is fine btw. I wanna apologize if I was too harsh to you earlier though ^^ I was pretty rude when I responded to your first quote. Sorry about that!

 

[Reindeer]

You shouldn't take our sentiments personally, as you asked us what our opinion on Anita is, not you. It's a sensitive topic for a lot of people as well, so you could've expected at least some hate being thrown in Anita's direction. I'm seeing a lot of games affected by this weird brand of feminism, and it's ruining a hobby I've had since I was a child. This "new" brand of feminism is the reason why games like The Last of Us and Gone Home are touted as great games even though they're pretty much the polar opposite.
Not to mention that good people in the industry are being fired from their jobs simply because they don't agree with these feminist views. I don't blame just Anita for that, but you can't deny that she is part of the problem.

I've said it before, I'm all for gender equality. Nowadays feminism just focuses on the problems of women, rather than looking at the prejudice towards men. We're supposed to think men are trash and women should be praised into the heavens. That's not the way it works. If women want to be just as respected as men, they wouldn't start what is basically a (sometimes thinly) veiled campaign of hatred.

Anita does what a lot of others do. They point out the things they don't like and expect us to change them immediately, yet things that would disprove their point or show that the same kind of prejudice is directed at men in some way are completely ignored because it doesn't fit their agenda. It's not right.

 

[ACNiko]

The haters will still hate her for anything she says, but her fan base can learn a lot more if she chose to talk about it more and go into deeper topics. But still, her comment about sex workers wasn't okay. Your english is fine btw. I wanna apologize if I was too harsh to you earlier though ^^

I wouldn't call myself a fan of her, but I do respect her for this video series. Btw, what did she say about sex workers?

You shouldn't take our sentiments personally, as you asked us what our opinion on Anita is, not you. It's a sensitive topic for a lot of people as well, so you could've expected at least some hate being thrown in Anita's direction. I'm seeing a lot of games affected by this weird brand of feminism, and it's ruining a hobby I've had since I was a child. This "new" brand of feminism is the reason why games like The Last of Us and Gone Home are touted as great games even though they're pretty much the polar opposite.
Not to mention that good people in the industry are being fired from their jobs simply because they don't agree with these feminist views. I don't blame just Anita for that, but you can't deny that she is part of the problem.

I've said it before, I'm all for gender equality. Nowadays feminism just focuses on the problems of women, rather than looking at the prejudice towards men. We're supposed to think men are trash and women should be praised into the heavens. That's not the way it works. If women want to be just as respected as men, they wouldn't start what is basically a (sometimes thinly) veiled campaign of hatred.

Anita does what a lot of others do. They point out the things they don't like and expect us to change them immediately, yet things that would disprove their point or show that the same kind of prejudice is directed at men in some way are completely ignored because it doesn't fit their agenda. It's not right.

Technically, I asked you what your opinions on Tropes vs Women was, but whatever. So you think it's a problem that video game companies try to implement gender equality in video games and change the norms?

The true meaning of feminism is to strive towards gender equality. True feminists don't hate men, but men is overrepresented in media and the society, and that's what feminists are trying to change. Also, the majority of violent crimes is made by men, and the majority of victims of sexual abuse is women. That does not mean that ALL men are hated.

 

[Ace Marvel]

First thing I want to say is that I am a guy and I am gay, so my arguments will be based as how I persive women in vidiogemes, which wont be as a girl (bc I'm not one) nor someone that can sexualize female characters.

I just want to say that her reference are so clich?, basically princess Peach the RULER of the mushroom kingdom, which starting with means she doesnt need a man to rule over a kingdom, so there that.
Also this has been a sussesful plot because not only men, but also women like this sterotype which she calls "damsell in distress", which I can call "chivalry", so there is a diferent why to see this plot. Mario is a plumber, not a guard, not a soldier, which mean he is under no obligation to save her, same goes for link.
And please, her OoT, she becomes a woman again and is kidnap again, she is kidnapped because she reveals her true identity, being her the ONLY one with the power to defeat Ganon. Again not just being a damsel in distress, but crucial to save the Hyrule.
Just to mention a few kickass female protagonists in popular games:
-Samus
-Jill Valentine
-Ada Wong
-Xian Mei
-Lighting
-Heather Mason
Just to name a few, which she ignores.
So yeah, she is not using facts, to defend arguments just uses what she can use to her advantage. Because of that I can't take care seriously because for me is a rant, and she doesn't suggest how this can be solve.

 

[Reindeer]

Technically, I asked you what your opinions on Tropes vs Women was, but whatever. So you think it's a problem that video game companies try to implement gender equality in video games and change the norms?

I never said that, nor even implied it. If you look at those games you'll see for yourself that it's really forced, to the point of bad storytelling. Yet, because it's made by feminists for feminists it's BEST GAME EVER GUYS OMG

Yet games like the Tomb Raider reboot are completely ignored, whereas if you really want a strong female protagonist that doesn't rely on being male/liking pink/etc, and rather has a logical character progression, then that is the perfect example of what those games SHOULD be like.

The true meaning of feminism is to strive towards gender equality. True feminists don't hate men, but men is overrepresented in media and the society, and that's what feminists are trying to change. Also, the majority of violent crimes is made by men, and the majority of victims of sexual abuse is women. That does not mean that ALL men are hated.

And that's why I said:

This "new" brand of feminism [...]

Not to mention you're not addressing the fact that a lot of systems are also skewed against males. Are you for both parents having an equal chance of getting custody of the child, rather than it being skewed in the woman's favor? Are you for women being drafted into the military at the age of 18? Are you for women getting longer punishments for their crimes?

What I meant was that a lot of people want to ignore the bad stuff, because that doesn't matter. It does. If you want equality you can't just take, you also need to give. At this point all I see is taking.

 

[Lady Timpani]

Wait but Peach and Zelda aren't the same character lol.

 

[Uffe]

I remember her. I remember finding this video sometime later.

 

[Chromie]

I remember her. I remember finding this video sometime later.

She's not very good at what she does. Tsundere has already posted some excellent reasons why but yes Anita does not represent any other view. She sees sexism in everything even where some would say there isn't. I can't take her seriously. I'll participate for in this discussion but right now my brain is fried. I have talked alot about this on NeoGAF and well I think what needs to be discussed is not sexism or trops or tropes in gaming (no I'm not saying ignore it) but rather is Anita even credible?

Quoting just in case you didn't see.
But here's the thing, you are not listening to criticism of Anita. And frankly I'm more upset about your defense of her. "It's not her responsibility" Then whose job is it? From what I remember during your feminism thread, you don't seem to focus much on other forms of oppression other than misogyny. You cannot destroy misogyny without destroying other forms of oppression. Please, go read up on other feminists. Anita doesn't deserve her fame.

Hope I didn't sound too mean, lol. I'm trying to keep it calm but I get heated during SJ discussions. Don't mean any harm, just disgareeing. Sorry if I hurt your feelings ): But yeah, Anita is not great.

I like you.

 

[8floor]

i feel like the one thing that people do not keep in mind when considering video games is that games are, at the end of the day, art. a lot of people like to throw that phrase around but when it comes down to it, for many of those people video games are only art when they are not offended.

that being said, to spark a real change in the gaming industry, sales are what matter. if you want more strong female lead characters, buy games that feature those characters. if you do not like the content of a game because of sexist themes or whatnot, do not buy that game, and perhaps encourage others not to buy that game - same as with books. it is not your place as the consumer to tell the artist how to make their art.

do game companies try to cater to the consumer? yeah, of course they do, and i am not trying to say that they do not. when it comes to big companies, it is not that they are trying to warp the idea of the artist to be something different, particularly in japan, but they will approve the art that they think will sell.

in these conversations, i love to bring up dragon's crown, as people had their panties in a twist about how over-sexualized the female characters were, while completely ignoring that the men were depicted in the exact same way. people get too hung up on the feminine part of feminism, and it makes me sad how often men are thrown under the bus in favor of "BUT WOOOOOMMMEEENNN"

as for the topic in point, anita did a horrible thing by making that kickstarter, taking so much money from fans, and putting out videos the same exact quality as what she had been doing before. she may have a point, a point that i disagree with, but she very much chooses the wrong way to go about presenting her point, and it really is no surprise how much she was attacked over doing what she did.

disclaimer: i am female, and i do not think there are any problems with sexism in the gaming industry

 

[oath2order]

Peach isn't what I'd call a perfect female protagonist by any stretch of the imagination, but that's no reason to ignore games and characters that are trying to be more progressive. Heck, in Super Paper Mario, Peach is a playable, active protagonist that helps save the world. And now we're seeing more and more games where stronger females are emerging.

I'm not saying the video game industry is perfect. It is far from perfect. But with every generation, we're making progress. Anita only ever looks backwards, and we can't move on like that.

I have to modify this. In all Paper Mario games minus Sticker Star, Peach is a playable, active protagonist that helps save the world.

 

[Chromie]

Has Anita EVER mentioned this character? Kreia from the Knights of the Old Republic is one of the best female hell one of the best characters ever created. She was written by all male team and I know its an older game but I think its one worth mentioning.

 

[Titi]

She only looks at a small handful of videogames from what I've seen and tries way too hard. I don't like her. Then again, I have a problem with extreme feminists in general.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I'd like to see her tackle Super Hero comic books. People always assume at first glance that they are super sexist but so many female characters are such total badasses really. Also yes they are drawn exaggerated in some art styles but have you seen the men.

 

[Cudon]

It really bugs me that Anita never talks about mechanics or gameplay in a game. As if she just looked up a plot of a game on wikipedia and a video to show off the 'feminist' part of plot. I understand shes talking about feminism in gaming but it makes her look so amateur to me. A proper reviewer takes all parts of whats being reviewed and mentions them all. But all shes trying to do is stir up a mess about 'unfair female video game characters and so called tropes.

 

[davidfosterwallace]

Gives bloated feminist "critiques" of a media form that has had yet to develop subtleties.

 

[Kildor]

I'm going to be honest here and say that I disagree with Anita. I don't find anything wrong with Damsels in Distress, or how women are portayed in video games. I can think of women in video games that out-badass the main protagonist (Fire Emblem has ****loads of 'em) and I'm surprised she hasn't mentioned Tomb Raider. ( If she did, I'm sorry because I didn't finish all through out) The thing is, her opinions are one sided, and I doubt she even plays any video games to actually understand why female characters are portrayed like that.