I share the same opinion as Briar. I'm not a huge fan of the puzzle piece but I'm not gonna gatekeep other fellow autistic peeps that would like to use it. The more, the merrier! love seeing what people use to represent themselves.
Backdrop Variations for Celebrating Diversity 🏳🌈
- Thread starter Mistreil
- Start date
just popping in real quick to say i also hate the puzzle piece and everything it's associated with. it's not my place to decide for everyone but i personally would much prefer the infinity symbol over anything relating to puzzle pieces/autism speaks.
daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
i don't really have a preference, but as someone on the spectrum, i feel like i should say that i'm personally fine with an option for both, because it's not my place to police/decide which symbol other autistic people associate their autism with. (i actually associate sunflowers more with neurodivergence, because that's what they put on lanyards here for staff in supermarkets, as an example, who have additional needs.) i'm not from north america, so my only knowledge of the puzzle piece being "bad" comes from the internet, and if it doesn't have that same negativity or autism speaks association in other parts of the world, i don't know that it's fair, per se, to restrict people from those areas who identify with it.
I don't think deciding against using one out of so many other symbols and/or flags that don't have controversy behind them is restricting anyone at all. While Autism Speaks is an American organization, its reputation (along with the puzzle piece itself) isn't solely known in North America, and since this event is supposed to be about making everyone feel welcoming or "celebrated" or whatever it's probably best to use something without so much shady business surrounding it.
daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
i'm not disputing that autism speaks is known outside of north america, but north america is not the be all, end all. beyond the internet, i've personally never heard mention of them or negativity re: the puzzle piece, and i run in a circle with a lot of other autistic people. i'm sure the same goes for many other countries and/or people within them. we were asked for our opinion/stance on the decision of two backdrops, and this is mine as that is yours. people can and do interpret the puzzle piece differently. before i ever found out about the autism speaks issue online, for example, i personally always interpreted it as being the piece that completes you because getting a diagnosis and/or learning you have autism can help you better understand yourself and realize there's nothing wrong with you at all. if certain people would prefer to use a puzzle related backdrop, and mistreil is happy to make one for those people, then i'm personally fine with it as someone on the spectrum, just as i'm fine with it if they decide to only stick with the infinity symbol, that is all. i'm aware i don't speak for every autistic person here, just as you don't, and i'm not looking to debate on the matter, if that's okay!
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I feel like I can't speak on whether the autism flag should be the infinity symbol or puzzle piece, but I want to mention there is still an option for members via the general disability flag that Seliph did share earlier if Mistreil chooses to create it. I think it's the yellow stripe that represents neurodivergence on it? So there is still a second option available to members if only one autism specific flag is created. And this second option isn't the infinity symbol or the puzzle piece so it is pretty neutral, from what I can tell.
And though I understand why some members may want two autism specific flags made, the flags do take time.. but that's up to Mistreil.
And though I understand why some members may want two autism specific flags made, the flags do take time.. but that's up to Mistreil.
Regarding neurodiverse representation, I'm personally fine with either. I don't like Autism Speaks, but I'm not offended when someone chooses to associate with or finds comfort in the puzzle piece motif; that organization doesn't own the idea. People are not a monolith; there will always be ideas within our communities that are contested, and as others have stated, viewing with an international lens is important.
I started to feel this way after I witnessed young LGBT+ folks harassing older members of the community for using the traditional rainbow flag over updated versions, which I feel is petty, clout chasing behavior. So long as your flag or symbol isn't literally calling for the death of a group of people, use what you feel represents you.
I started to feel this way after I witnessed young LGBT+ folks harassing older members of the community for using the traditional rainbow flag over updated versions, which I feel is petty, clout chasing behavior. So long as your flag or symbol isn't literally calling for the death of a group of people, use what you feel represents you.
I'm not understanding where you're getting the idea that anyone is implying NA is the be all end all? I am merely saying we should all be aware of the damage Autism Speaks has done and educate ourselves on it if we aren't. They've been very widely criticized for around a decade now.
No one is claiming to be the Autism Spokesperson and no one is telling anyone else to stop personally identifying with the puzzle piece, it is merely a matter of caution and education. I'm not looking to debate you either, but it's a public discussion and I feel you are replying way too defensively and putting words in peoples' mouths.
xSuperMario64x
sleepy moon loaf ‧₊˚ ☾. ⋅
dunno if anyone else has suggested, but add an omni flag and I will be a very happy bug 
as for the autism thing, I always associate the puzzle piece with Autism $peaks and they have historically been very harmful to autistic people, so I would not recommend that at all. a rainbow background with a white infinity sign would be nice
as for the autism thing, I always associate the puzzle piece with Autism $peaks and they have historically been very harmful to autistic people, so I would not recommend that at all. a rainbow background with a white infinity sign would be nice
daringred_
✧ stupid lesbian ✧
you're entitled to feel that way, i'm just explaining my point of view and simply pointing out that NA isn't the be all, end all, not saying that anyone specifically suggested/implied that, and that people in other countries may not have the same association with the symbol. it's just a statement of my own thoughts, as is everything else i've said, i'm not claiming anyone else here said x, y, z. i'm perfectly aware of autism speaks and the criticism towards them, but that doesn't change my opinion on the backdrop options. as said, mistreil asked for people's opinions, and i simply gave mine as someone on the spectrum. that's all i came here to do.
xSuperMario64x
sleepy moon loaf ‧₊˚ ☾. ⋅
I appreciated reading these, I personally would not use the puzzle piece at all to represent myself, but if some people want to use it and they feel it best represents them then sure! though I understand it can have negative connotations for many people, myself included. I wouldn't go as far as to compare it to symbols used by some hate groups, as A$ isn't really a hate group, they just have their heart in a very wrong place. I think awareness of the issues surrounding A$ is very important, and as long as people understand that, then what they decide to do with/out the puzzle piece is fine.
I'm aware Mistreil is not able to make a bunch of flags and she is not trying to exclude anyone just because she couldn't make their flag but since other people are listing out all their flags they identify with that haven't been considered yet as something they would like to see I guess I'll do the same.
It would make me very happy if I could see a Queerplatonic and Polyamorous flag. I constantly see these two(especially the former) being excluded when seeing a variety of pride flag things people make. Both of them are non-normative relationship dynamics that unfortunately are not supported by everyone in society, I understand that Queerplatonic and Polyamorous people have not been historically "oppressed' by society for who they are and that some people don't really think they deserve to be part of the LGBTQA+ community because of that but they are different from the norm and they are different from cis, straight and allo people which nobody would ever question or criticize someone for being cis/straight/allo and but I've seen really hurtful and unsupportive comments towards poly people which is sad people can't be supportive and as a Queerplatonic person I need to deal with people saying my identity is this "fake made-up concept" (it's not) and having my feelings invalided for wanting a relationship that isn't romantic, isn't a friendship but it's own unique thing and being told "either you are friends with someone or you are in a romantic relationship with someone, there's no 'third option'"
I understand not everyone considers Queerplatonic and Polyamorous to be Queer and that's fine that we all have different opinions, I don't want to argue about what is or isn't considered "Queer". Regardless of what people think I really wish more people in society would be more supportive of relationship dynamics that are different from the norm and that people don't really understand and that people wouldn't make ignorant and hateful comments about Queerplatonic and Polyamorous people. I wish we could embrace the many ways people love other people and that people can love multiple partners and love people in a way that is different from stereotypical romantic relationships that is different from friendships.
One more flag I wish to be considered is a Abrosexual flag. I'm Abrosexual which means my sexuality is fluid and not set in stone, my attraction to different genders changes over time and can vary in intensity too, Abrosexual is pretty much like Genderfluid except with someone's sexuality not their gender identity, I really wish that if the LGBTQA+ community can be supportive of the fact that gender is not always static for everyone and can be fluid that human sexuality is a complicated thing and people's sexuality can also be fluid too. Abrosexual is another lesser known identity that I don't see being talked about enough, so I'm usually forced to say something along the lines of "my sexuality is just Queer" because people don't understand what Abrosexual is or don't approve of it.
That is all the flags I wish to be considered, I'm also Aroace and Genderqueer and those flags are already being included.
Personally as an Aroace person I strongly prefer the sunset flag because it's more commonly used (and my own personal bias that I do not like the color purple and don't like the purple and green Aroace flag because purple isn't for me LOL) But anyways that's just my own preference and I really couldn't care less about which Aroace flag is used, there's nothing wrong with the Purple/Green one.
Personally as a Autistic person I feel really uncomfortable with the puzzle piece symbol not necessarily because of Autism Speaks but because I mostly see it used by or associate it with people who have very inaccurate and/or outdated perceptions of Autism such as trying to insist that Autism is "Aspergers" when that term is literally not used in the medical field anymore and many Autistic people do not like the term because of its.... history and connotations.... and also because I feel that the symbol does not represent me because my Autism is not a puzzle piece of me or an insignificant part of me, it is a fundamental part of who I am, my brain is Autistic and I don't understand what it's like to not be Autistic, Autism and me cannot be separated from each other, my Autism is not a mere "puzzle piece" of me it's the entire "puzzle"
However I understand that some Autistic people still like the puzzle piece symbol and they personally feel that it represents them, I understand that symbols can have different meanings for people and that not everyone associates it with Autism Speaks, I kind of don't really care if Mistreil uses it because other people wanted it but I feel that I'm not represented by its usage(not like I'm the representative of Autism or whatever, I'm not) and I do not like the symbol at all myself but if other people like it, I won't stop them.
It would make me very happy if I could see a Queerplatonic and Polyamorous flag. I constantly see these two(especially the former) being excluded when seeing a variety of pride flag things people make. Both of them are non-normative relationship dynamics that unfortunately are not supported by everyone in society, I understand that Queerplatonic and Polyamorous people have not been historically "oppressed' by society for who they are and that some people don't really think they deserve to be part of the LGBTQA+ community because of that but they are different from the norm and they are different from cis, straight and allo people which nobody would ever question or criticize someone for being cis/straight/allo and but I've seen really hurtful and unsupportive comments towards poly people which is sad people can't be supportive and as a Queerplatonic person I need to deal with people saying my identity is this "fake made-up concept" (it's not) and having my feelings invalided for wanting a relationship that isn't romantic, isn't a friendship but it's own unique thing and being told "either you are friends with someone or you are in a romantic relationship with someone, there's no 'third option'"
I understand not everyone considers Queerplatonic and Polyamorous to be Queer and that's fine that we all have different opinions, I don't want to argue about what is or isn't considered "Queer". Regardless of what people think I really wish more people in society would be more supportive of relationship dynamics that are different from the norm and that people don't really understand and that people wouldn't make ignorant and hateful comments about Queerplatonic and Polyamorous people. I wish we could embrace the many ways people love other people and that people can love multiple partners and love people in a way that is different from stereotypical romantic relationships that is different from friendships.
Queerplatonic flag
Polyamorous flag
Polyamorous flag
One more flag I wish to be considered is a Abrosexual flag. I'm Abrosexual which means my sexuality is fluid and not set in stone, my attraction to different genders changes over time and can vary in intensity too, Abrosexual is pretty much like Genderfluid except with someone's sexuality not their gender identity, I really wish that if the LGBTQA+ community can be supportive of the fact that gender is not always static for everyone and can be fluid that human sexuality is a complicated thing and people's sexuality can also be fluid too. Abrosexual is another lesser known identity that I don't see being talked about enough, so I'm usually forced to say something along the lines of "my sexuality is just Queer" because people don't understand what Abrosexual is or don't approve of it.
That is all the flags I wish to be considered, I'm also Aroace and Genderqueer and those flags are already being included.
Personally as an Aroace person I strongly prefer the sunset flag because it's more commonly used (and my own personal bias that I do not like the color purple and don't like the purple and green Aroace flag because purple isn't for me LOL) But anyways that's just my own preference and I really couldn't care less about which Aroace flag is used, there's nothing wrong with the Purple/Green one.
Personally as a Autistic person I feel really uncomfortable with the puzzle piece symbol not necessarily because of Autism Speaks but because I mostly see it used by or associate it with people who have very inaccurate and/or outdated perceptions of Autism such as trying to insist that Autism is "Aspergers" when that term is literally not used in the medical field anymore and many Autistic people do not like the term because of its.... history and connotations.... and also because I feel that the symbol does not represent me because my Autism is not a puzzle piece of me or an insignificant part of me, it is a fundamental part of who I am, my brain is Autistic and I don't understand what it's like to not be Autistic, Autism and me cannot be separated from each other, my Autism is not a mere "puzzle piece" of me it's the entire "puzzle"
However I understand that some Autistic people still like the puzzle piece symbol and they personally feel that it represents them, I understand that symbols can have different meanings for people and that not everyone associates it with Autism Speaks, I kind of don't really care if Mistreil uses it because other people wanted it but I feel that I'm not represented by its usage(not like I'm the representative of Autism or whatever, I'm not) and I do not like the symbol at all myself but if other people like it, I won't stop them.
it’s a looottt
i know you can’t possibly include everything and everyone, but tbh i feel like it would be really fun to see a backdrop that’s a more abstract representation of what all these facets of diversity mean to you
Update 1: The list so far!
New
Writing on a phone on a train at 7AM, so bear with me if I make any mistakes or forgot something (and let me know if I did!)! First - thank you all for your opinions and suggestions so far!
I'll formally update the first post when I get a chance, but a list so far of things to be added (in no particular order aside from what I scrolled by/remembered):
I might not get to all of these, but I'll try to!
With regards to the puzzle-pieces design: I appreciate the opinions that were shared! I had complicated feelings on the matter, but with what's been said factoring in, I think my stance is this:
I'll make a puzzle variation (in addition to the rainbow infinity one - that one was always 100% a done deal aside from the design), if I get the time to.
While I personally do not like the association, especially with various organizations -- which was what made me very hesitant in the first place (and please go support other organizations) -- I feel more uncomfortable telling neurodivergent/autistic individuals that do feel represented by it that they can't/shouldn't use it. Even more so since it is a symbol used in other parts of the world which don't have that association. One of the issues with that symbol itself is that it was chosen without consideration for or input from autistic people, so I feel it's disingenuous of me to do similar in the opposite direction, even if I mean well by it.
So... I'll make it with the understanding that it's in support of the members and people that do use it/feel represented by it, but that it's absolutely not in support of Autism Speaks (or other similar organizations) nor in support of the negative associated meanings.
I hope that's acceptable!
I'll formally update the first post when I get a chance, but a list so far of things to be added (in no particular order aside from what I scrolled by/remembered):
- BIPOC (design TBD though)
- Progress pride flag (design TBD)
- Queerplatonic
- Polyamory
- Abrosexual
- Aro/ace -> probably doing the sunset one
- Omnisexual
- Disability
- Hidden disabilities (sunflower pattern)
- Mental health
- Genderfaer
- Genderfaunet
- Genderfloren
- Demisexual
- Demiromantic
- Coexist
I might not get to all of these, but I'll try to!
With regards to the puzzle-pieces design: I appreciate the opinions that were shared! I had complicated feelings on the matter, but with what's been said factoring in, I think my stance is this:
I'll make a puzzle variation (in addition to the rainbow infinity one - that one was always 100% a done deal aside from the design), if I get the time to.
While I personally do not like the association, especially with various organizations -- which was what made me very hesitant in the first place (and please go support other organizations) -- I feel more uncomfortable telling neurodivergent/autistic individuals that do feel represented by it that they can't/shouldn't use it. Even more so since it is a symbol used in other parts of the world which don't have that association. One of the issues with that symbol itself is that it was chosen without consideration for or input from autistic people, so I feel it's disingenuous of me to do similar in the opposite direction, even if I mean well by it.
So... I'll make it with the understanding that it's in support of the members and people that do use it/feel represented by it, but that it's absolutely not in support of Autism Speaks (or other similar organizations) nor in support of the negative associated meanings.
I hope that's acceptable!
Mr_Keroppi
綠蛙朋友 ੈ✩‧₊˚
Aww I think that the banners are some of my favorite things about events, they help profiles pop! Its sweet to see everyone discuss what they would like to see. Thank you so much Mistreil for your hard-work designing these! YOUR STUFF IS ALWAYS GREAT
Captain Jigglypuff
Leader of the Jigglypuff Army
That’s why I personally refuse to use it myself. Autism Speaks once made a commercial that literally likened having autism to having bedbugs. The only thing I can agree with them in is that Sia’s Music is a horribly offensive piece of trash and bad representation of autism.
xSuperMario64x
sleepy moon loaf ‧₊˚ ☾. ⋅
it's come to my attention that multiple people would feel very uncomfortable seeing the puzzle piece in peoples' sidebars, and may even skip out on the Celebrating Diversity event if they see it come to fruition. just a heads up.
I've also heard the sentiment that part of the reason why many autistic people dislike the use of the puzzle piece, is the connotation that autistic people have "missing pieces to their puzzle". that's the only analogy I've heard for the puzzle piece. I honestly have not heard anything positive about it, and I've also only seen it in negative contexts; I once saw a shirt with a puzzle on it, with a missing puzzle piece, saying "Proud mom of an autistic child". it may seem innocent but that implication is still there, and that type of phrase is often associated with parents who treat autism like it's a burden to the child and themselves.
perhaps weigh the options and see if it's worth having "full" representation, or if its better to make sure a chunk of your user base doesn't feel uncomfortable and deterred from participating on TBT for the duration of the backdrops.
I've also heard the sentiment that part of the reason why many autistic people dislike the use of the puzzle piece, is the connotation that autistic people have "missing pieces to their puzzle". that's the only analogy I've heard for the puzzle piece. I honestly have not heard anything positive about it, and I've also only seen it in negative contexts; I once saw a shirt with a puzzle on it, with a missing puzzle piece, saying "Proud mom of an autistic child". it may seem innocent but that implication is still there, and that type of phrase is often associated with parents who treat autism like it's a burden to the child and themselves.
perhaps weigh the options and see if it's worth having "full" representation, or if its better to make sure a chunk of your user base doesn't feel uncomfortable and deterred from participating on TBT for the duration of the backdrops.
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