• The results of the egg decorating contest have been announced! Everyone's designs were amazing! Congratulations to our winners!

Religious Views: Seek Advice Here or Help Others!

Simillar to this, I dislike it how most of the schools in the UK are Church schools, especially primary. Seriously, my school was messed up and forced a girl who was of a different religion to say Christian prayers .-.

The school I went to forced a Muslim girl to go to church and take off her 'burka' because headwear wasn't allowed in the 'house of God'. I'm not sure if that's against that religion but I'm gonna take a guess and say yes, yes it is.


They also banned me from the church and gave me the whole "you're going to hell etc." speech because I didn't understand why Spiderman is fictional but Jesus isn't or why we had to devote our time to Jesus but not to Spiderman.
I mean, that's not even me trying to annoy people, that was just my 7 year old logic failing to understand why one thing isn't the same as the other.
 
You honestly can't blame God for everything bad that happens in the world. Especially with people. He gave people free will and if he interfered every time someone tried to do something evil that wouldn't be the free will at all. He'd be controlling people's actions. As for natural disasters, yes God could prevent them, but he has a reason for not doing so. God is good.

Okay but what reason could possibly be good enough to not save a bunch of innocent lives? Obviously you won't have the answer to this I'm just musing because saying "God has his reasons" is such an overused step-around by theists for things they cannot explain and logically make no sense at all coming from an apparently omnibenevalant God
 
Okay but what reason could possibly be good enough to not save a bunch of innocent lives?


He has a quota for 'people killed' every month. If he hits that target, he automatically gets entered into a prize draw to win a blender and a free trip to Barbados.
 
Okay but what reason could possibly be good enough to not save a bunch of innocent lives? Obviously you won't have the answer to this I'm just musing because saying "God has his reasons" is such an overused step-around by theists for things they cannot explain and logically make no sense at all coming from an apparently omnibenevalant God

You're absolutely right. I do not know the answer. Only God knows. His logic is greater than ours and it is very difficult to understand his reasons sometimes. People are afraid of what they cannot understand and thus have trouble accepting God's actions without being to explain them with our logic. I'm not trying to convince you. I just wanted to put my two cents in.
 
He has a quota for 'people killed' every month. If he hits that target, he automatically gets entered into a prize draw to win a blender and a free trip to Barbados.

count me in

- - - Post Merge - - -

You're absolutely right. I do not know the answer. Only God knows. His logic is greater than ours and it is very difficult to understand his reasons sometimes. People are afraid of what they cannot understand and thus have trouble accepting God's actions without being to explain them with our logic. I'm not trying to convince you. I just wanted to put my two cents in.

okay fair enough thank you for the respectful convo
 
And if God is omnipotent then why does anything terrible happen in the world? If he exists and he allows terrible things to happen I don't think we have much reason to call him God anyway

I think the idea is that God isn't supposed to interfere in the affairs of mankind, that sort of defeats the concept of free will. The point isn't to make the creation do what you want, but have them choose goodness on their own. Disease, destruction, war, we bring that on ourselves. A God isn't supposed to clean up everyone's mess. No other God I've heard of in any religion is supposed to do that, so why is a Christian one any different?

The problem people seem to have with the creator entity is imposing human understanding and emotion onto it when it wouldn't operate by that standard.
 
Last edited:
I think the idea is that God isn't supposed to interfere in the affairs of mankind, that sort of defeats the concept of free will. The point isn't to make the creation do what you want, but have them choose goodness on their own. Disease, destruction, war, we bring that on ourselves. A God isn't supposed to clean up everyone's mess. No other God I've heard of in any religion is supposed to do that, so why is a Christian one any different?

The problem people seem to have with the creator entity is imposing human understanding and emotion onto it when it wouldn't operate by that standard.

But if a god is ALL GOOD like theists claim, then isn't it contradictory that he would act in a way that is not ALL GOOD (i.e allowing horrible things to happen? a child abused by it's parents "brought that on itself?" I just don't understand how a deity that does not act as a deity should by definition of what theists consider a God deserves to be called a god. What is the point of worshipping this god if he does literally nothing for humankind?

Not to mention the countless times I've heard "God blessed me with this/god saved my life, etc.," yet as you say, God does not interfere with daily life. so which is it
 
Last edited:
But if a god is ALL GOOD like theists claim, then isn't it contradictory that he would act in a way that is not ALL GOOD (i.e allowing horrible things to happen? a child abused by it's parents "brought that on itself?" I just don't understand how a deity that does not act as a deity should by definition of what theists consider a God deserves to be called a god. What is the point of worshipping this god if he does literally nothing for humankind?

Not to mention the countless times I've heard "God blessed me with this/god saved my life, etc.," yet as you say, God does not interfere with daily life. so which is it

You'd have to ask a Christian that. I don't believe in a diety having a direct precense in our lives. It just wouldn't make sense as you say. Blessing those and not blessing others is an impartial interference. I don't believe any direct involvement would occur between a creator and creation until death, if at all ever.
 
You'd have to ask a Christian that. I don't believe in a diety having a direct precense in our lives. It just wouldn't make sense as you say. Blessing those and not blessing others is an impartial interference. I don't believe any direct involvement would occur between a creator and creation until death, if at all ever.

fair enough. but then what is the point of believing in a creator at all if there is no benefit to it
 
I don't really see how baptism is that bad, unless I'm missing something here. Circumcision, on the other hand...

I was baptized as a baby and it burnt, oh how it burnt. Just kidding. I was baptized however and to this day I still feel really uncomfortable about it. I didn't approve of it because, yeah you guessed it, I was a baby. Sure, it wasn't a life altering experiance but still. Let people decide for themselves if and when they want to become baptized.

Whoa! Don't even mention the C-word!
 
"One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol" ... Um.. Yeah. Metaphorical isn't exactly a synonym for historical. They mean two completely different things and there's not a correlation between a sequence of events and the metaphorical. Maybe gain some basic knowledge of word definitions

And why is it okay to pick and choose what is apparently "metaphorical" and what is historically true in the bible? Who has that authority? You really think God spoke to a man named Noah and said "build a big ****ing boat and find two of every animal cause I'm gonna flood the world and kill everyone." Lol ok
PS something "seeming realistic" doesn't automatically make it true so I'm not really sure where you're trying to go with that

And if God is omnipotent then why does anything terrible happen in the world? If he exists and he allows terrible things to happen I don't think we have much reason to call him God anyway

No, we can't get exact information in perfect detail from figurative language. Maybe there's a reason, like as Trundle mentioned, how every little detail of the beginning could make the Bible longer than it needs to be, as it usually only contains important things and lessons for morality and ways of living, as well as a record of some of what the ancient world was like.

When I said it was more realistic, I meant it's not huge-scale miracle-based stuff we can't scientifically understand in any compacity. As literate people, we can notice things like that and make comparisons. Many of the stories of kings and families and such in the OT were based around normal people who did normal things. There are accounts of different kingdoms and nations. There are a couple stories involving angels protecting people and prophets speaking for God, but it's not anything thought of to be as intense as man being formed from dust, and flooding the whole world, which you make an attempt to mock me with.
People say that God cannot exist because there is evil and suffering in the world, claiming that if God truly loved us, He wouldn't have made Hell, sin, etc. When really, He didn't directly create sin and Hell-- we did.
Because of man's failure to obey God, we then had to deal with a stain on our race, a separation, because we rebelled against God. This is sin. Some will ask "But why did he put all those curses on us in addition?" He punished us, because any loving father disciplines their kids and shows them what's what, so that they can learn from their bad choices, know how to please Him, and try to do better to please Him.
Our ability to sin in the first place comes from God's gift to humans of free will. Because of Him we have a moral right and wrong and a use for our consciences. We can then, based on the information given to us about Him in our lives, freely choose to obey Him or not care about Him; to accept or reject Him. If we accept God, He says (Biblically) that we must obey him if we truly love Him; we must strive to please Him by our actions.
If we reject Him? Well, to put it the way my religion teacher put it, God isn't going to force you to live in His presence eternally (Heaven). He's going to respect your decision and let you be separate from Him if it's how much you couldn't stand Him. (Like how people say that if you truly love your spouse you would be willing to let them leave you if they so desired.)
Problem is, Hell is in and of itself that separation. God, being the Divine Creator, is of all good things: love, beauty, happiness, etc. Without God, there is no love, beauty happiness, etc. and that's pretty much what Hell is. Hell was created by a lack of God, not by God Himself.
Now if you lived your life never knowing of God's existence and never hearing the Word? I believe God would have mercy; otherwise we'd have millions of premature and aborted babies in Hell when they were never even able to sin. You can't deliberately go against God when you have no idea what God is, lol.
So now the question is this: why does God allow us free will when we can't know everything about Him or logically look at the consequences and make an educated choice based on that knowledge? Faith.
The way God approaches us is that He reveals to us the things we need to know in order to be saved, but within His revelations there's always room for doubt. He never makes Himself plainly-known or understood, He never shows His existence to be a common fact. The idea of trying to find evidence for God's existence using scientific methods? Hilarious.
Science only focuses on what humans know and theorize about the natural world, while God is in the supernatural and doesn't need to conform to nature; thus miracles, defined as occurrences that cannot be explained by the laws of nature, are possible ("anything is possible with God"). Let me also throw out there that we would probably have no concept of miracles if it weren't for God, just as the exact properties of morality, perfection, and their opposites are found nowhere else.
Now, let's look at a different side. 1+1=2. You do not believe that 1+1=2; you do not have to. It is a mathematical, proven fact. You know that 1+1=2. God, however, is not a mathematical, proven fact, because He doesn't need to be. If He were a proven fact by the laws of nature/science/the world, you would not have to believe in Him, and tbh He wouldn't be supernatural at all and therefore there wouldn't be miracles. This is why He provides the gift of faith: the ability to believe in Him, regardless of what science says or what the "evidence" says. That may be a lot for Him to expect of us, but He's gotta have some standards to go on regarding who gets into Heaven and who doesn't (no one ever "deserves" Heaven; our salvation is a gift, too)... and if we can totally deny the world and keep our faith, even in the face of our opposers, that means a strong love for God, a strong desire to serve Him, and a strong desire to follow His commandments.
True faith, just like God Himself, does not require the conformity of the natural world. It goes beyond what the world can provide, and it doesn't need to agree with the laws of this world. This is why God gives us that gift, and He only gives it to those that look for Him where He ought to be found.
 
I think the idea is that God isn't supposed to interfere in the affairs of mankind, that sort of defeats the concept of free will. The point isn't to make the creation do what you want, but have them choose goodness on their own. Disease, destruction, war, we bring that on ourselves.

Not everybody brings it on themselves. Rape victims with AID's, environmental activists being left homeless after natural disasters, people being killed in a war they don't agree with because their country has forced military service.


I guess you could say these people are being tested buuuuuut:


Not to mention the countless times I've heard "God blessed me with this/god saved my life, etc.," yet as you say, God does not interfere with daily life. so which is it


So why is God so picky when it comes to saving people?
 
Last edited:
But if a god is ALL GOOD like theists claim, then isn't it contradictory that he would act in a way that is not ALL GOOD (i.e allowing horrible things to happen? a child abused by it's parents "brought that on itself?" I just don't understand how a deity that does not act as a deity should by definition of what theists consider a God deserves to be called a god. What is the point of worshipping this god if he does literally nothing for humankind?

Not to mention the countless times I've heard "God blessed me with this/god saved my life, etc.," yet as you say, God does not interfere with daily life. so which is it

He created us with free will. He's not going to manipulate everything that goes on in our world. Miracles and such happen purely through faith and obviously saying "God blessed me with x" and "God saved my life" isn't always the case but it can happen. The Bible says anything is possible through faith, and I've witnessed some crazy things.
 
fair enough. but then what is the point of believing in a creator at all if there is no benefit to it

Not everything is beneficial or rewarding, everything ultimately came into being and it can simply be that. Doesn't have to be a drawn out deep and meaningful reason or being. An entity of creation can be scientific and conscious without being anything more than that. The fact that people assign a code of morals to it is what's considered universally beneficial for the preservation of mankind, but unfortunately with that comes a lot of self-agenda and corruption. Religion.
 
C

"One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol" ... Um.. Yeah. Metaphorical isn't exactly a synonym for historical. They mean two completely different things and there's not a correlation between a sequence of events and the metaphorical. Maybe gain some basic knowledge of word definitions

And why is it okay to pick and choose what is apparently "metaphorical" and what is historically true in the bible? Who has that authority? You really think God spoke to a man named Noah and said "build a big ****ing boat and find two of every animal cause I'm gonna flood the world and kill everyone." Lol ok
PS something "seeming realistic" doesn't automatically make it true so I'm not really sure where you're trying to go with that

And if God is omnipotent then why does anything terrible happen in the world? If he exists and he allows terrible things to happen I don't think we have much reason to call him God anyway

I'm not sure where I see the point in a God who makes everyone 100% happy and safe all the time no matter what. You couldn't even consider that living.
 
You're absolutely right. I do not know the answer. Only God knows. His logic is greater than ours and it is very difficult to understand his reasons sometimes. People are afraid of what they cannot understand and thus have trouble accepting God's actions without being to explain them with our logic. I'm not trying to convince you. I just wanted to put my two cents in.

This. We're asking for all the answers now, some NEED all the answers now, and it hinders people. Even I'm doing it now. It's common how people don't know what God knows, so they try to fill it in. I try not to go that far, but hey, I'm not perfect. My brain and my "logic" isn't perfect. No one's is. But that's the beauty of faith, at least to me, that I can turn to God and trust in Him despite not having the signs and not knowing everything. I admit His will, ways, and knowledge are way beyond my reach and beyond anyone's, I admit His justice and righteousness is the best and the only true righteousness. What I can do is follow along with what I'm given, and try to make the connections, knowing they may be flawed, but that I'm trying.
 
I'm not sure where I see the point in a God who makes everyone 100% happy and safe all the time no matter what. You couldn't even consider that living.

I'm not sure I see the point in a God at all with that statement lmao

- - - Post Merge - - -

This. We're asking for all the answers now, some NEED all the answers now, and it hinders people. Even I'm doing it now. It's common how people don't know what God knows, so they try to fill it in. I try not to go that far, but hey, I'm not perfect. My brain and my "logic" isn't perfect. No one's is. But that's the beauty of faith, at least to me, that I can turn to God and trust in Him despite not having the signs and not knowing everything. I admit His will, ways, and knowledge are way beyond my reach and beyond anyone's, I admit His justice and righteousness is the best and the only true righteousness. What I can do is follow along with what I'm given, and try to make the connections, knowing they may be flawed, but that I'm trying.

so you're just a blind follower of something that won't ever reveal itself to you and you don't feel the need to question it?

- - - Post Merge - - -

He created us with free will. He's not going to manipulate everything that goes on in our world. Miracles and such happen purely through faith and obviously saying "God blessed me with x" and "God saved my life" isn't always the case but it can happen. The Bible says anything is possible through faith, and I've witnessed some crazy things.

i can't speak for your own personal experiences but this absolutely does not prove whatsoever that a god exists just because you claim to have "witnessed miracles" that were performed by god.
 
I always considered religion as something that people were either raised to believe in or something they turned to when they became scared/hit a rough spot in their life/had nowhere else to turn to. I don't really believe in a god and surely don't believe in following religious teachings trying to influence my morals/how I live my life.
 
No, we can't get exact information in perfect detail from figurative language. Maybe there's a reason, like as Trundle mentioned, how every little detail of the beginning could make the Bible longer than it needs to be, as it usually only contains important things and lessons for morality and ways of living, as well as a record of some of what the ancient world was like.

When I said it was more realistic, I meant it's not huge-scale miracle-based stuff we can't scientifically understand in any compacity. As literate people, we can notice things like that and make comparisons. Many of the stories of kings and families and such in the OT were based around normal people who did normal things. There are accounts of different kingdoms and nations. There are a couple stories involving angels protecting people and prophets speaking for God, but it's not anything thought of to be as intense as man being formed from dust, and flooding the whole world, which you make an attempt to mock me with.
People say that God cannot exist because there is evil and suffering in the world, claiming that if God truly loved us, He wouldn't have made Hell, sin, etc. When really, He didn't directly create sin and Hell-- we did.
Because of man's failure to obey God, we then had to deal with a stain on our race, a separation, because we rebelled against God. This is sin. Some will ask "But why did he put all those curses on us in addition?" He punished us, because any loving father disciplines their kids and shows them what's what, so that they can learn from their bad choices, know how to please Him, and try to do better to please Him.
Our ability to sin in the first place comes from God's gift to humans of free will. Because of Him we have a moral right and wrong and a use for our consciences. We can then, based on the information given to us about Him in our lives, freely choose to obey Him or not care about Him; to accept or reject Him. If we accept God, He says (Biblically) that we must obey him if we truly love Him; we must strive to please Him by our actions.
If we reject Him? Well, to put it the way my religion teacher put it, God isn't going to force you to live in His presence eternally (Heaven). He's going to respect your decision and let you be separate from Him if it's how much you couldn't stand Him. (Like how people say that if you truly love your spouse you would be willing to let them leave you if they so desired.)
Problem is, Hell is in and of itself that separation. God, being the Divine Creator, is of all good things: love, beauty, happiness, etc. Without God, there is no love, beauty happiness, etc. and that's pretty much what Hell is. Hell was created by a lack of God, not by God Himself.
Now if you lived your life never knowing of God's existence and never hearing the Word? I believe God would have mercy; otherwise we'd have millions of premature and aborted babies in Hell when they were never even able to sin. You can't deliberately go against God when you have no idea what God is, lol.
So now the question is this: why does God allow us free will when we can't know everything about Him or logically look at the consequences and make an educated choice based on that knowledge? Faith.
The way God approaches us is that He reveals to us the things we need to know in order to be saved, but within His revelations there's always room for doubt. He never makes Himself plainly-known or understood, He never shows His existence to be a common fact. The idea of trying to find evidence for God's existence using scientific methods? Hilarious.
Science only focuses on what humans know and theorize about the natural world, while God is in the supernatural and doesn't need to conform to nature; thus miracles, defined as occurrences that cannot be explained by the laws of nature, are possible ("anything is possible with God"). Let me also throw out there that we would probably have no concept of miracles if it weren't for God, just as the exact properties of morality, perfection, and their opposites are found nowhere else.
Now, let's look at a different side. 1+1=2. You do not believe that 1+1=2; you do not have to. It is a mathematical, proven fact. You know that 1+1=2. God, however, is not a mathematical, proven fact, because He doesn't need to be. If He were a proven fact by the laws of nature/science/the world, you would not have to believe in Him, and tbh He wouldn't be supernatural at all and therefore there wouldn't be miracles. This is why He provides the gift of faith: the ability to believe in Him, regardless of what science says or what the "evidence" says. That may be a lot for Him to expect of us, but He's gotta have some standards to go on regarding who gets into Heaven and who doesn't (no one ever "deserves" Heaven; our salvation is a gift, too)... and if we can totally deny the world and keep our faith, even in the face of our opposers, that means a strong love for God, a strong desire to serve Him, and a strong desire to follow His commandments.
True faith, just like God Himself, does not require the conformity of the natural world. It goes beyond what the world can provide, and it doesn't need to agree with the laws of this world. This is why God gives us that gift, and He only gives it to those that look for Him where He ought to be found.

this is well thought out and all but it means absolutely nothing to someone who doesn't believe in god in the first place so it doesn't really apply to me
 
Back
Top