Philando Castile and Dallas Shootings

[Fleshy]

Actually, quite a few black lives matter supporters don't think white lives matter. This supporter directly said so in a debate with a white student at Harvard.

There's a few examples of that in this video, too. 14:40 shows some reaaaal hypocrisy in the black lives matter movement. If a white person ever said "Here's 10 facts you probably don't know because you're black" people would lose their ****.

And maybe the police are on edge when it comes to black lives matter demonstrations because of what happened in Dallas yesterday. And this, footage of the riot in Baltimore.

Or this, what a black lives matter leader says will happen if Trump gets elected

Or this, another riot by black lives matter at a Trump rally.

I get that black lives matter may have started by people wanting to spread awareness, but it's practical application has been disastrous.

Right, I should have said that the majority* believe all lives matter, not all. Of course there are some people on the extreme end with their beliefs and while I don't agree with it, I don't blame them for having said thoughts. Anger, hurt, loss and pain evokes certain reactions in people, it's not right, but it's the way it is, anger brings that out in people. For example, if someone murdered your family member, your first reaction toward them is likely to be that you hate them and want to kill them, it's not right, but that's what pain does to people. To me, the guy in the first video seems to say that white life doesn't have value, as in no life has value above another, and in order to bring up black people white people have to die (as death of black people occurred to bring up white people) I think that's a very skewed way of looking at it, but a few people seeing it that way shouldn't discredit the whole movement.

Riots aren't friendly, in history they never have been, but they happen in retaliation to something. I'm not saying I support violence in the riots, from either party, but they should never have been given a reason or incentive to riot in the first place. When it comes to movements like this, there will always be extremists.

It'd be a whole lot more valid if they quit rioting in the streets, attacking people, assaulting police officers and SHOOTING THEM, and then saying that they're the real victims.

Again, you're generalising. Yes, violence is not the answer, but their anger is valid. "SHOOTING THEM" that's happening on both 'sides' of this. Nothing ever changes by being silent. Yes black lives matter was based on black victimisation, because that's what evoked the riots? When people riot for benefits for poor people, should they also riot for the rich? When people riot for gay rights, should they riot for straight rights too? No. I'm not at all disagreeing that there's serious problems, but there are serious problems on both 'sides', nobody should be dying, nobody, not black people, not the police, nobody.

 

[LambdaDelta]

If giving you real life examples of why it's no longer a beneficial movement is enough to make you give and up and walk away, then I guess this is a waste of time. At least you acknowledged that.

More like that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey. whatever you want to believe.



Also re: black lives matter/all lives matter, feminism, and such: I think this image I found recently sums it all up pretty perfectly

Spoiler

 

[Miii]

Moreso that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey, whatever you want to believe.



Also re: black lives matter/all lives matter, feminism, and such: I think this image I found recently sums it all up pretty perfectly

Spoiler

If you bothered to read any of my earlier comments, then you'd see that I'm for changing the way black people in America are viewed and how they're prejudged, but I don't think that black lives matter is going about it the right way AT ALL. They were literally destroying public property in Baltimore, breaking store windows and car windows. WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH? NOTHING!!! In fact, show me ONE thing black lives matter has accomplished since it's birth. Just. One. Thing. I mean besides selfishly and condescendingly interrupting the memorial for the shooting in Orlando to push their agenda and inform white people of 10 facts they don't know because they're white. Unbelievable.

 

[Gregriii]

love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities

#blacklivesmatter

#notasiansactually

- - - Post Merge - - -

More like that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey. whatever you want to believe.



Also re: black lives matter/all lives matter, feminism, and such: I think this image I found recently sums it all up pretty perfectly

Spoiler

well minorities are almost never taken in account like male rape, attacks against cis, etc so???

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities

#blacklivesmatter

#notasiansactually




well minorities are almost never taken in account like male rape, attacks against cis, etc so???

It's almost like the stereotype for asians has nothing to do with aggression and gang culture so of course there's no asianlivesmatter




If you think people only complain about racism towards black people then you need to do more reading.




Btw nobody in this thread actually believes the snipers were a part of BLM right? Because that would be embarassing. Why would somebody starting shooting cops with all that gear at a protest? It's almost like that was intentional to shift blame.

 

[Gregriii]

It's almost like the stereotype for asians has nothing to do with aggression and gang culture so of course there's no asianlivesmatter




If you think people only complain about racism towards black people then you need to do more reading.




Btw nobody in this thread actually believes the snipers were a part of BLM right? Because that would be embarassing. Why would somebody starting shooting cops with all that gear at a protest? It's almost like that was intentional to shift blame.

well the Word racism is often afilliated with black people so I'm just saying it seems people often ignore that there are more ways of racism OFC most of them don't include killing

btw the asian thing was a joke

 

[Miii]

Right, I should have said that the majority* believe all lives matter, not all. Of course there are some people on the extreme end with their beliefs and while I don't agree with it, I don't blame them for having said thoughts. Anger, hurt, loss and pain evokes certain reactions in people, it's not right, but it's the way it is, anger brings that out in people. For example, if someone murdered your family member, your first reaction toward them is likely to be that you hate them and want to kill them, it's not right, but that's what pain does to people. To me, the guy in the first video seems to say that white life doesn't have value, as in no life has value above another, and in order to bring up black people white people have to die (as death of black people occurred to bring up white people) I think that's a very skewed way of looking at it, but a few people seeing it that way shouldn't discredit the whole movement.

Riots aren't friendly, in history they never have been, but they happen in retaliation to something. I'm not saying I support violence in the riots, from either party, but they should never have been given a reason or incentive to riot in the first place. When it comes to movements like this, there will always be extremists.



Again, you're generalising. Yes, violence is not the answer, but their anger is valid. "SHOOTING THEM" that's happening on both 'sides' of this. Nothing ever changes by being silent. Yes black lives matter was based on black victimisation, because that's what evoked the riots? When people riot for benefits for poor people, should they also riot for the rich? When people riot for gay rights, should they riot for straight rights too? No. I'm not at all disagreeing that there's serious problems, but there are serious problems on both 'sides', nobody should be dying, nobody, not black people, not the police, nobody.

Rioting and destroying public property, vandalizing and looting 24 businesses, burning down a convenience store and acting like stupid spoiled children not getting their way and throwing a temper tantrum solves nothing, and absolutely discredits what they claim to stand for. I don't care how angry they are; what they did was wrong, and there's no making excuses for their actions. It wasn't just a few people rioting in Baltimore, either. Go watch the video. There were a LOT of people.

Another thing that annoys me is that the shooting of Mike Brown, which is what started black lives matter, was seriously misrepresented in the media. Mike Brown didn't have his hands up, he didn't say "don't shoot"; he fought with the officer, tried to take his gun and was shot when he charged the officer. This was backed up by the forensic report, and eyewitnesses. Don't you think a movement should start with honesty and accurate representation of facts?

 

[Fleshy]

If you bothered to read any of my earlier comments, then you'd see that I'm for changing the way black people in America are viewed and how they're prejudged, but I don't think that black lives matter is going about it the right way AT ALL. They were literally destroying public property in Baltimore, breaking store windows and car windows. WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH? NOTHING!!! In fact, show me ONE thing black lives matter has accomplished since it's birth. Just. One. Thing. I mean besides selfishly and condescendingly interrupting the memorial for the shooting in Orlando to push their agenda and inform white people of 10 facts they don't know because they're white. Unbelievable.

How do you suppose we go about changing the way black people are treated then? Obviously you can't react with anger because that invalidates your cause, so how then? You're saying how it's all wrong, but I don't see you proposing any other ways to go around it? It's riots, riots are violent, unfortunately, but that's the way it is. Violence often sparks change, it's sad that it has to progress to that point, however.

Although you claim not to be, you seem to be completely demonizing and condemning the movement without even mentioning or considering their side. I'm sure nobody here thinks the movement is flawless, nobody is saying that, I'm sure very few people agree with the violence and suchlike from the BLM movement.

Campaign Zero was started, calling for things such as body cams and a limit on police force, in an attempt to lower the rates of police brutality. Even if they haven't "achieved" anything, this is a call for justice, things like this take years. Do you think the people who took part in the Stonewall riots were in the wrong also? They were violent towards the police, damaged properties, etc. Soon after the stonewall riots, the Gay Liberation front was formed, the first organisation for lg*bt rights to use "gay" in their name. The Stonewall riots happened in retaliation to discrimination and violence against lgbt people, violence was involved, and in the end, the outcome was mainly positive for lgbt people.

Rioting and destroying public property, vandalizing and looting 24 businesses, burning down a convenience store and acting like stupid spoiled children not getting their way and throwing a temper tantrum solves nothing, and absolutely discredits what they claim to stand for. I don't care how angry they are; what they did was wrong, and there's no making excuses for their actions. It wasn't just a few people rioting in Baltimore, either. Go watch the video. There were a LOT of people.

Another thing that annoys me is that the shooting of Mike Brown, which is what started black lives matter, was seriously misrepresented in the media. Mike Brown didn't have his hands up, he didn't say "don't shoot"; he fought with the officer, tried to take his gun and was shot when he charged the officer. This was backed up by the forensic report, and eyewitnesses. Don't you think a movement should start with honesty and accurate representation of facts?

I'm pretty much going to be repeating myself here, again. I never stated that only a small amount of people took part in the riots? I know many people did. Nor am I excusing violence used on either side, I have stated that, again and again, I do not agree with the violence and I am not supporting or excusing it, I'm just saying that I understand the anger. Again, if that's not the right way to go about it, what is? what are your other ideas?

I do think movements should start with an accurate representation of facts. As far as I know, after the altercation where Brown went after the officers gun, he fled, knowingly unarmed. The officer then, knowing he was unarmed, decided to shoot, at least 6 of those shots hitting Mike Brown. I'm not agreeing with misinterpretation, but that was wrong whatever way you look at it, there was no need to shoot him, surely something else could have been done? I also think the misinterpretation of Mike's death wasn't intentional as it escalated so quickly, with reporters all claiming different events.

Also, on a post originally created regarding the death of Philando Castile, you never even mentioned his death or how it was wrong, you went straight on to say how "people are disgusting" for the shootings of the police (which is disgusting, yes), as if the snipers were 'members' of the black lives matter movement? Then your next post on this thread was to use everything you can to demonise the movement. I think it's clear what you believe and where your priorities lie.

love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities

#blacklivesmatter

#notasiansactually

- - - Post Merge - - -

well minorities are almost never taken in account like male rape, attacks against cis, etc so???

Who said racism only affects black people? I think we all know that racism doesn't not only affect black people, but in this certain case it seems to be aimed at black people.

Male victims of rape and abuse are getting more recognition and support lately, and rightfully so, it should have happened long ago. What cis people get attacked and killed for being cis?

 

[nintendofan85]

It makes me very unhappy. I will admit that I don't know that many details about either though. I'll look up more about it, though.

 

[piichinu]

i hate police

- - - Post Merge - - -

We're not all gun crazy.

sorry miii but youre definitely one of those gun crazy texans rofl

 

[Miii]

How do you suppose we go about changing the way black people are treated then? Obviously you can't react with anger because that invalidates your cause, so how then? You're saying how it's all wrong, but I don't see you proposing any other ways to go around it? It's riots, riots are violent, unfortunately, but that's the way it is. Violence often sparks change, it's sad that it has to progress to that point, however.

Although you claim not to be, you seem to be completely demonizing and condemning the movement without even mentioning or considering their side. I'm sure nobody here thinks the movement is flawless, nobody is saying that, I'm sure very few people agree with the violence and suchlike from the BLM movement.

Campaign Zero was started, calling for things such as body cams and a limit on police force, in an attempt to lower the rates of police brutality. Even if they haven't "achieved" anything, this is a call for justice, things like this take years. Do you think the people who took part in the Stonewall riots were in the wrong also? They were violent towards the police, damaged properties, etc. Soon after the stonewall riots, the Gay Liberation front was formed, the first organisation for lg*bt rights to use "gay" in their name. The Stonewall riots happened in retaliation to discrimination and violence against lgbt people, violence was involved, and in the end, the outcome was mainly positive for lgbt people.




I'm pretty much going to be repeating myself here, again. I never stated that only a small amount of people took part in the riots? I know many people did. Nor am I excusing violence used on either side, I have stated that, again and again, I do not agree with the violence and I am not supporting or excusing it, I'm just saying that I understand the anger. Again, if that's not the right way to go about it, what is? what are your other ideas?

I do think movements should start with an accurate representation of facts. As far as I know, after the altercation where Brown went after the officers gun, he fled, knowingly unarmed. The officer then, knowing he was unarmed, decided to shoot, at least 6 of those shots hitting Mike Brown. I'm not agreeing with misinterpretation, but that was wrong whatever way you look at it, there was no need to shoot him, surely something else could have been done? I also think the misinterpretation of Mike's death wasn't intentional as it escalated so quickly, with reporters all claiming different events.



Who said racism only affects black people? I think we all know that racism doesn't not only affect black people, but in this certain case it seems to be aimed at black people.

Male victims of rape and abuse are getting more recognition and support lately, and rightfully so, it should have happened long ago. What cis people get attacked and killed for being cis?

My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include...

1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
3. Spread awareness using factual evidence (statistics and studies), and make it readily available on the black lives matter website, on social media, hand out flyers if you're doing a march, etc. and keep it consistent.
4. Before organizing a march, make sure everyone involved agrees to keep things peaceful, so riots and violence can be averted.

Not all protests in the past were violent. The women's suffrage movement had a number of peaceful protests. The only violence in that situation came from people that disagreed with their protest, and the protesters themselves were the ones getting hurt by people throwing rocks or spitting on them. They understood that violence and chaos would only hurt their cause, and I think black lives matter could learn a thing or two from that.

- - - Post Merge - - -

i hate police

- - - Post Merge - - -



sorry miii but youre definitely one of those gun crazy texans rofl

Not really. I'm absolutely for people having the right to own guns, and when people tell me I'm wrong, I debate them on the subject. I don't collect guns, and it's not like I'm out on the range every Saturday.

Also, you hate police? Who exactly would you call, then, if your life was in danger? Police officers risk their lives every day and deal with the dangerous situations no other citizen would want to deal with. Talk about unappreciative.

 

[piichinu]

My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include...

1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
3. Spread awareness using factual evidence (statistics and studies), and make it readily available on the black lives matter website, on social media, hand out flyers if you're doing a march, etc. and keep it consistent.
4. Before organizing a march, make sure everyone involved agrees to keep things peaceful, so riots and violence can be averted.

Not all protests in the past were violent. The women's suffrage movement had a number of peaceful protests. The only violence in that situation came from people that disagreed with their protest, and the protesters themselves were the ones getting hurt by people throwing rocks or spitting on them. They understood that violence and chaos would only hurt their cause, and I think black lives matter could learn a thing or two from that.

lets talk about why this is dumb
1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? cuz racism
2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
3) this already happens..............
4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u

 

[Gregriii]

lets talk about why this is dumb
1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? cuz racism
2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
3) this already happens..............
4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u

nah, the united states is well known for the whities who love shooting schools and it gives them a bad rep lol

 

[piichinu]

nah, the united states is well known for the whities who love shooting schools and it gives them a bad rep lol

missed my point entirely

 

[Fleshy]

My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include...

1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
3. Spread awareness using factual evidence (statistics and studies), and make it readily available on the black lives matter website, on social media, hand out flyers if you're doing a march, etc. and keep it consistent.
4. Before organizing a march, make sure everyone involved agrees to keep things peaceful, so riots and violence can be averted.

Not all protests in the past were violent. The women's suffrage movement had a number of peaceful protests. The only violence in that situation came from people that disagreed with their protest, and the protesters themselves were the ones getting hurt by people throwing rocks or spitting on them. They understood that violence and chaos would only hurt their cause, and I think black lives matter could learn a thing or two from that.

I do agree with your ideas on how to make a change peacefully, and I think a lot of people have been going about it in such a manor, it just usually happens that the riots start suddenly after a death, people are angry and they retaliate differently. Nobody goes "oh no, my friend was shot, lets add that to the list of people killed by the police this year, now, time to phone everyone I know an organise a peaceful way to combat this!" What you said there does make a whole lot of sense, I just don't think that it is at all that easy in practice. Also, +1 to what shiida said in response.

Yes not all protests are violent, but a large number of them are, ideally no violent protests would take place though, obviously. Do you discredit the efforts of the people involved in the Stonewall riots because a number of them were violent?

 

[Gregriii]

missed my point entirely

lol I read your post like 5 times and didnt get yout first point

if u could explain it

I mean u were probably being sarcasting and yes I get the sarcasms but idk

 

[Miii]

lets talk about why this is dumb
1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? cuz racism
2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
3) this already happens..............
4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u

1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.

 

[Gregriii]

1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.

May I ask why his (right???) age matters?

 

[Miii]

I do agree with your ideas on how to make a change peacefully, and I think a lot of people have been going about it in such a manor, it just usually happens that the riots start suddenly after a death, people are angry and they retaliate differently. Nobody goes "oh no, my friend was shot, lets add that to the list of people killed by the police this year, now, time to phone everyone I know an organise a peaceful way to combat this!" What you said there does make a whole lot of sense, I just don't think that it is at all that easy in practice. Also, +1 to what shiida said in response.

Yes not all protests are violent, but a large number of them are, ideally no violent protests would take place though, obviously. Do you discredit the efforts of the people involved in the Stonewall riots because a number of them were violent?

I get that laws in the 60s were against gay people having rights. That's messed up. At the same time, part of the reason that club was raided was because they were selling liquor without a license.

But it's not the 60s anymore. Things are different now and everyone has the same rights. Gay marriage is legal. Interracial marriage is legal. Discriminating against someone for their race, gender, ethnicity, weight, height or physical capability is illegal. We aren't subject to laws like gay people were in the 60s.

 

[piichinu]

lol I read your post like 5 times and didnt get yout first point

if u could explain it

I mean u were probably being sarcasting and yes I get the sarcasms but idk

i wasnt being sarcastic but if u dont understand i really cba to explain. you speak spanish right? maybe ill try to translate later or something if im not lazy

1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.

1) it doesnt matter if people go against them, its nt that easy for stereotypes to be "reversed?" even if people dont act violent theres always gonna be that one group of people that insists that they do. and thats the problem. you need everyone to cooperate and open their eyes, not just the oppressed group to "work hard" or whatever omg
2) like i said most employers are not that dumb and will be able to come up with an excuse.
3) my point was is that it already happens and it's not working yet because some people are still blind to the facts :' )
4) yes im 16 how does that matter? u always act like an old fart if we're gonna bring up age...
ok yes it shows that theyre making an effort but u think racists are gonna care about that

my problem with you is that you make it seem like its up to the oppressed group of people to "fix" racism and not the people with the incorrect perception and close-mindedness to be overruled lmao. what you dont seem to understand is that even by doing all of what youre saying, people are still going to deny the facts. youre acting as if none of the things youve suggested are happening already, which is pretty disrespectful lol.