Healthcare Bill Discussion
- Thread starter Bacon Boy
- Start date
I don't know you IRL soooo I'm saying its a possibility :veryhappy:Tyeforce said:
But yeah the way I see it the more open people are about sex, the more likely people will be safe about it, well that and the availability of protection. honestly in some areas you feel just dirty getting something like condoms simply from how some people you don't even know judge you.... then again sometimes they respect you more for being responsible...
Darn. I was hoping I wouldn't miss this debate ... all well.
Anyways, the main reason I am for this health care bill is because my brother has type one diabetes (NOT the kind you get from being fat -_-). Once my brother is no longer covered by my parents insurance when he is an adult, there is no way in hell he is ever going to get covered by an insurance company because of his preexisting disease unless he gets a job with a huge corporation or he works for the hospital. Is that really right? Honestly. Do you know much it costs without insurance just for a month to keep my brother healthy and alive? it's ridiculous and not right for insurance companies to do that to people, everyone deserves the right to get health care.
Anyways, the main reason I am for this health care bill is because my brother has type one diabetes (NOT the kind you get from being fat -_-). Once my brother is no longer covered by my parents insurance when he is an adult, there is no way in hell he is ever going to get covered by an insurance company because of his preexisting disease unless he gets a job with a huge corporation or he works for the hospital. Is that really right? Honestly. Do you know much it costs without insurance just for a month to keep my brother healthy and alive? it's ridiculous and not right for insurance companies to do that to people, everyone deserves the right to get health care.
Health care prices began increasing when government started its intervention about half a century ago. Health care is now two thirds government. Why should more government intervention help? History shows us the opposite.
Free markets provide for what people want. It's supply in demand. But insurance is heavily regulated by government. There is no market and it is not a real economy. The REASON health care is expensive is BECAUSE of government. People who support the bill unfortunately have it backwards. I can only tell you this now and warn you that the country's health care problem will not be solved. Government cannot run anything right. Not medicaid, medicare, the military, schools, the post office, the DMV, etc. It also cannot run health care and this is going to be very bad for people in these situations. It will be bad for all of us because we all need health care and the government is simply taking our money and spending it in a very inefficient way. The reason why government can't do anything right is because it is a violent monopoly. It avoids market competition.
JasonBurrows
Senior Member
Agreed! ^Jeremy said:
They more or less do the same here in the UK.
The United States spends 25 cents out of every dollar on administrative costs for Health care. Other countries spend 12 cents, and it's because of the government. The government is elected by the people, for the people, and should not make a profit. We are 45th in quality of care worldwide, but we pay the most for it. The free market isn't always the answer, especially when insurance companies are so monopolistic. That's why we should leave the dark ages, and join every other rich nation in providing universal health care coverage.Jeremy said:
Sweden is a good example. They have tried government ran health care, but that didn't work. They have been privatizing it. This means better health care for people.Khocol4te said:
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/179/2/129
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA555_Sweden_Health_Care.html
Nothing is free by the way. And the government tried doing what you said. It's called medicare. Like I said in my post above, government cannot run anything right. That is why they stole medicare money and used it on other government programs. Now the country is bankrupt. Now people won't be getting the money that they put in for themselves. Why do we trust government?
Health care in the US is two thirds government. That's one of the reasons it is expensive. There has not been a free market in health care for a very long time. When there was a free market, we did not have these problems. There is no price competition when it is distributed by employers and then insurance companies. And who was responsible for enforcing this system? Government.
edit - Monopolies don't exist in free markets. They can only exist with government support. So if you are worried about monopolies, don't support government intervention.
Woah, monopolies exist because of government support? Go tell that to the industrial revolution era, you know where the rich owned sweat shops where kids had to work to eat. I don't think the government really supported them so much as allowed them at the time. Now a days it takes years to bring down a monopoly because of how tied up they can make the courts.
And right now our country is paying more for worse health care than many nations that do have universal health care. How on earth can you explain that? And from those Swedish articles I can't make anything bad out of it other than waiting lists, and you know what, that is bound to happen when everyone is able to get into a hospital. I however can not stand it when people point that out because all that means is we don't get waiting lists because we let our poor just die and suffer!
Honestly you found those articles on Sweden from entirely biased sources. If you can find something about how Sweden's health care is doing worse than ours is since we have less government then I'll believe you. Oh wait our health care is doing worse than Sweden is! That is a fact, they have higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and they still pay less per person. All these cries about how this will be the countries undoing honestly just annoy me because it is not the end and in fact can be a very good thing in the end.
And right now our country is paying more for worse health care than many nations that do have universal health care. How on earth can you explain that? And from those Swedish articles I can't make anything bad out of it other than waiting lists, and you know what, that is bound to happen when everyone is able to get into a hospital. I however can not stand it when people point that out because all that means is we don't get waiting lists because we let our poor just die and suffer!
Honestly you found those articles on Sweden from entirely biased sources. If you can find something about how Sweden's health care is doing worse than ours is since we have less government then I'll believe you. Oh wait our health care is doing worse than Sweden is! That is a fact, they have higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and they still pay less per person. All these cries about how this will be the countries undoing honestly just annoy me because it is not the end and in fact can be a very good thing in the end.
Entei Slider
Occasionally in drawers
Well
1.Its good for ME, because since I have a pre-existing health problem I can get insurance when I wouldnt have been able to
like this quote
2.The economy is screwed :/
1.Its good for ME, because since I have a pre-existing health problem I can get insurance when I wouldnt have been able to
like this quote
on the other hand...
2.The economy is screwed :/
Only temporary monopolies can exist in a free market. There is no evidence of an actual monopoly existing in a free market. This is because there is always an opportunity for another business to offer the product at a better price. Competition decreases prices and increase quality. Governments discourage competition with regulations. Therefore, government intervention allows for monopolies to exist. There are monopolies in the health care industry because the government has been heavily involved in health care.Sporge27 said:
Many countries have horrible health care. In some, you have a lower cost but it's impossible to to ACTUALLY get health care. It is essentially being rationed. It also doesn't make sense to compare other countries to ours because the government intervenes in both instances, just in different ways. And is an article biased because you don't agree with it?
Anyway, this is going to answer some of the things you said in your last paragraph and it address many of the things people have brought up here.
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Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsEAVbCkMM
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=refrYKq9tZQ
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhiG0dcwN8
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp_Jh5EIT0
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_KCLm9cekU
More videos:
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<param name='loop' value='true' /><param name='quality' value='high' /></object> - more stossel (may be above)
http://www.youtube.com/v/3WnS96NVlMI
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<param name='loop' value='true' /><param name='quality' value='high' /></object> - Dr. Lawson
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<param name='loop' value='true' /><param name='quality' value='high' /></object> - Dr. Paul
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<param name='loop' value='true' /><param name='quality' value='high' /></object> - Dr. Paul last night
Really old video on monopolies:
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Some Articles:
http://reason.com/blog/2010/03/21/health-care-reform-passes-but
http://mises.org/story/1133
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/tag/health/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard201.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/napolitano/napolitano16.1.html
Helpful literature:
http://mises.org/literature.aspx
You people, arguing...
When someone gives me something for free I say 'thank you' I dont shout and moan, and if its not something I want, I say 'No, thank you' and I continue the way I was...
If you really want, I doubt the hospitals will stop you paying extra after you've already goten your free operation... Or maybe you should all just take better care of your bodies and not cry when you, God forbid, have to pay for your own triple bypasses (that doesnt apply to every case, though)
When someone gives me something for free I say 'thank you' I dont shout and moan, and if its not something I want, I say 'No, thank you' and I continue the way I was...
If you really want, I doubt the hospitals will stop you paying extra after you've already goten your free operation... Or maybe you should all just take better care of your bodies and not cry when you, God forbid, have to pay for your own triple bypasses (that doesnt apply to every case, though)
Lokker Gattez
Member
If you like following semi-relevant BS like that Michael Moore Documentary: Sicko. It makes sense that people are hoping to get Health Care that's not tied down to excessive financial... This is a waste of Brain cells and my vocabulary. I live in Canada, and the Health Care system is great, but some places are so blocked up with patients, you could die waiting to be treated (unless your condition worsens and gets you more immediate attention). I may not know the basic info of this subject, but I can say with a little confidence that you better pray that this Bill doesn't turn the hospitals into a Bottleneck... except the cars stuck in the same spot for hours are replaced with patients. I still have a random thought, floating around my mental space. It's the same thought that wouldn't leave when people started ripping on Obama: Is he a President, or the guy that'll make the next dude/ette look better by comparison? No offense, but the way people have been pissing and moaning has mad that thought turn into the dirch on my shoulder.Ciaran said:
This also boils down to the fact the the Federal Gov't should not be meddling in such things to Begin with! They have no jurisdiction according to the constitution, the Gov't (should) have a VERY limited job, and stick to that.
And nothing that comes from Gov't is "free" anyway. Where does the money come from? hmmmmm geeee.. Us! Or they just print more money or borrow more from other countries... how is this a way to run a home, let ALONE a country!?
Before Gov't Meddling... doctors and patients could work something out between them and come to an agreement.. OR churches or other private charities could aid those in need of medical attn.
Now it's just a huge mess, and get worse the more they try to "help".
And nothing that comes from Gov't is "free" anyway. Where does the money come from? hmmmmm geeee.. Us! Or they just print more money or borrow more from other countries... how is this a way to run a home, let ALONE a country!?
Before Gov't Meddling... doctors and patients could work something out between them and come to an agreement.. OR churches or other private charities could aid those in need of medical attn.
Now it's just a huge mess, and get worse the more they try to "help".
This is actually a smart question, though one very hard to find an answer too, but thus far the general measure of health care is infant mortality, and life expectancy. It could be due to better doctors, or technology, but that info would normally be shared, and besides a huge part of it is that more people see doctors more frequently, preventing the need to go to the hospital for worse conditions later.Nixie said:
Now anyway the article I read is not biased because it disagrees with me, it is biased because it says absolutely nothing positive despite there being some, and it fails to show any sort of a marker to judge what many of the financial numbers really mean and how they compare to others, and over all just has the same rhetoric I've already heard re wrapped in a "See it didn't work here" shell, when they are still better off then we are.
And to say there would be no monopolies without government is entirely false. If a company is able to control all stages of production of its materials, products, and grows large enough it is able to buy out all competition or to simply keep prices low enough so as to destroy any chance of smaller businesses in the same field from surviving. It happens all the time, because people don't act on a monopoly as long as they are offering the cheapest and best products, but after a while they start to jack things up, or cut wages down. This is what happens in a free market, the rich can get richer, while the poor get poorer, and that is the main fault in a completely free market. If you have enough money you can control an entire market very easily.
My boyfriend who has insurance, just last semester fell and thought he broke his ankle. His schools health office was not legally able to help that case for some reason and he got sent to the ER. He did not have his insurance card on him at the time, the result? He had to wait behind everyone who came in with insurance on them. His parents were bringing his card, but he got stuck waiting for hours to get seen just because he couldn't prove it at the time. He was at the gym! He just didn't have his wallet with him at the time, but because of this and apparently know way to tell he got stuck a ton longer at the hospital than he should have.
I am not saying health care will be free, but I am saying it will be cheaper, and for that matter getting seen by a doctor in an emergency will be quicker. The whole thing about waiting lists, well I'm sorry you won't be able to just buy your way in first, but I don't think one man's life should really be valued above another's because of the size of his wallet. I don't know if universal health care will cause these waiting lists here, but really the other option is to just let some go untreated entirely, and I find that wrong.
And also, another thing we're disregarding here, is that the majority of the American people did not want this bill. And instead of the people telling the government what to do, which is what should happen for it is "for the people", the government is telling US what to do.
