voltairenism
the mac propaganda representative
why are we here. just to suffer
Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)
- Thread starter Geoni
- Start date
End of Day 1
Dedenne was:
AmazonEvan and mogyay will be warned for activity due to not reaching five posts and failing to have any vote activity. Night 1 ends at 5am EST on 8/15, 11 hours and 38 minutes.
Final Day 1 votecount reference:
Dedenne was:
AmazonEvan and mogyay will be warned for activity due to not reaching five posts and failing to have any vote activity. Night 1 ends at 5am EST on 8/15, 11 hours and 38 minutes.
Final Day 1 votecount reference:
End of Night 1
A frighteningly large Karen stands in the way of all of the other patrons of a Walmart? What does she hide behind? Her car. But that doesn't mean she can't fend for herself while outside of it. Shrieks fill the air. Insults, vulgarities, screeches. Somebody has to silence her! The manager of Walmart meets her in the parking lot and puts an end to her. After her long stand, she drives off...a cliff?
Voltairenism has been killed. They were:
You have 36 hours to vote and determine who to eliminate. Day 2 ends at 5pm EST, tomorrow, on 8/17.
Living Players
@Arstotzkan
@Ace Marvel
@Tensu
@Ronishy
@Antonio
@Endless
@glow
@Aerious
@guav@
@amazonevan19
@MyLifeIsCake
@epona
@mogyay
13/15
A frighteningly large Karen stands in the way of all of the other patrons of a Walmart? What does she hide behind? Her car. But that doesn't mean she can't fend for herself while outside of it. Shrieks fill the air. Insults, vulgarities, screeches. Somebody has to silence her! The manager of Walmart meets her in the parking lot and puts an end to her. After her long stand, she drives off...a cliff?
Voltairenism has been killed. They were:
You have 36 hours to vote and determine who to eliminate. Day 2 ends at 5pm EST, tomorrow, on 8/17.
Living Players
@Arstotzkan
@Ace Marvel
@Tensu
@Ronishy
@Antonio
@Endless
@glow
@Aerious
@guav@
@amazonevan19
@MyLifeIsCake
@epona
@mogyay
13/15
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Morning everyone, damn 2 towns down but we can learn from this.
For me it was a tough choice between Antonio and dedenne but Antonio was giving off an obvious anti Town vibe however maf can't be dumb, so I picked dedenne.
Why Volt? He voted mog.. He was silenced I need to read his posts.
@guav why abstain from voting if you are townie? It's the only power we have. Right or wrong atleast it will move the game forward.
For me it was a tough choice between Antonio and dedenne but Antonio was giving off an obvious anti Town vibe however maf can't be dumb, so I picked dedenne.
Why Volt? He voted mog.. He was silenced I need to read his posts.
If you thought she was town why not go for a third option?
@guav why abstain from voting if you are townie? It's the only power we have. Right or wrong atleast it will move the game forward.
because an off-wagon vote is useless and performative as far as i'm concerned
antonio is pretty much locktown for me after eod yesterday, they didn't even self-pres and that wagon gained traction way too quickly
i was townreading dedenne but not off anything concrete i just didn't think the case against her had any merit, but after the counterwagon formed on antonio in literally 5 seconds i wasn't sure so i changed my vote to save antonio because i was way more certain about them
100% agree that guava's no vote sucks though
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by 'off-wagon vote' i mean a vote for voting's sake that clearly is not going to have an impact on the actual lynch for the day
i personally love these SOD/EOD phase times but it's not great that lose a considerable chunk of what are already shorter day phases to timezone clashes
we're already 3 and a half hours into day 2
EBWOP: great that we lose*
we're already 3 and a half hours into day 2
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EBWOP: great that we lose*
MyLifeIsCake
~Impossomble~
G'mornin Karens. I had to re-read EOD a few times as I was at work and didn't get back to change my vote in time. Lots of activity in the last two hours. Ronishy I'm sorry I had nothing to go off of and your name was the first person I saw itt so I went for that as a placeholder for the time being. If I had to go back and vote now I'd go for Antonio. I don't like at all how quickly the bandwagon switched from Antonio to dedenne esp in the last few mins.
Why kill volt? Did they say anything incriminating for any other players? There are no PRs to go after this time around so killing off strong players is what maf should be aiming for but I don't see what volt said in particular that would cause them to be a main target...
I'm not sure what the indecisiveness of guav@ was for. Even if they kept their vote for amazon it wouldn't mattered in the long run as most people were not keen on voting for an inactive anyway.
Why kill volt? Did they say anything incriminating for any other players? There are no PRs to go after this time around so killing off strong players is what maf should be aiming for but I don't see what volt said in particular that would cause them to be a main target...
I'm not sure what the indecisiveness of guav@ was for. Even if they kept their vote for amazon it wouldn't mattered in the long run as most people were not keen on voting for an inactive anyway.
voltairenism
the mac propaganda representative
get em boys
personally i don't think speculation like this is useful
firstly, what is the definition of a strong player? it suggests that volt isn't whatever you're defining as a strong player, which undermines volt's ability. i know them to be a competent mafia player and this comes across as theatric 'hmmmm.... why would volt be the kill.... hmmm... i couldn't possibly know...' to me
secondly, literally any of the players that you're pinning as 'strong town contenders' could be mafia
Morning Karens. I believe the sudden deddene bandwagon against the set Antonio lynch was mafia driven. The counter-wagon formed even faster than Antonio’s wagon during those final minutes so that raises a massive red flag for me. I’m honestly not sure why deddene was suspected as scum in the first place, she always came across as null or maybe slight TL for me. Antonio’s behavior, on the other hand, is hard to justify.
As for volt’s night 1 kill, I feel like scum were just trying to get rid of a more decent player. Volt voted for mogyay, but their elimination shouldn’t cast too much suspicious on mog. I believe pursuing that is probably a red herring so I’m not paying much attention to that.
@epona Why are you so confident Antonio is town? I feel like townlocking him is quite a stretch given his sketchy behavior.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing people post their reads! I’m planning on having mine up later today.
As for volt’s night 1 kill, I feel like scum were just trying to get rid of a more decent player. Volt voted for mogyay, but their elimination shouldn’t cast too much suspicious on mog. I believe pursuing that is probably a red herring so I’m not paying much attention to that.
@epona Why are you so confident Antonio is town? I feel like townlocking him is quite a stretch given his sketchy behavior.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing people post their reads! I’m planning on having mine up later today.
MyLifeIsCake
~Impossomble~
That's not what I was implying. I was asking if volt had said anything that would have brought attention to any other specific players. I'm assuming maf would want to get rid of players that were very good at analyzing plays and reads very early on. I'm sorry volt if it came across that way.
Ace Marvel
Merry & Happy
Hey ladies, we can't continue losing Karens I love group pickpocketing.
I'm surprised we didn't got any mod kills, but probably the replacement will happen during this cycle, and probably Geoni is just waiting for an answer.
For now lets just wait on those slots, to get solved.
I'm surprised we didn't got any mod kills, but probably the replacement will happen during this cycle, and probably Geoni is just waiting for an answer.
For now lets just wait on those slots, to get solved.
Volt also mentioned kat but in the end but decided to go for mog.
He defended dedenne and Antonio as town.
Maybe there is some substance in this or maf are trying to take our scent of other targets.
good morning karens
can’t believe you’re already complaining about me!
re: my no vote, it’s pretty consistent in my meta that i don’t vote at random like we did eod. i was happy voting inactive because it was a way to at least ML someone who literally has added nothing to the game. but i heard all the karen cries about how “that’s a waste” and blah blah blah.
i did mention dedenne being maf early on when Kat asked me but that was 100% not serious and a legit random pick. i was not voting on a random pick on an active player.
anyway need to look back at the whole dedenne wagon.
can’t believe you’re already complaining about me!
re: my no vote, it’s pretty consistent in my meta that i don’t vote at random like we did eod. i was happy voting inactive because it was a way to at least ML someone who literally has added nothing to the game. but i heard all the karen cries about how “that’s a waste” and blah blah blah.
i did mention dedenne being maf early on when Kat asked me but that was 100% not serious and a legit random pick. i was not voting on a random pick on an active player.
anyway need to look back at the whole dedenne wagon.
Well, I certainly wasn't expecting a volt kill.
What people quantify as a "strong player" are people that are influential or able to apply a lot of pressure. Yes, some of these players can be mafia, but not all. (There's more than 3 players here who I'd quantify as such.)
However, that's not the important thing; the important thing is that mafia, especially on this site, tend to have a meta of doing such. Therefore, this kill is a deviation from general behaviour. So then the question becomes "why?"
Interestingly enough, I found that volt actually pushed Kat here and here.
I think this points more towards kat being town than anything else. Why? Because he was the only one pushing Kat, i.e. she was not under much pressure, so eliminating him to relieve that pressure doesn't achieve much, and because mafia are much more liable to want to frame someone during the first night than anything else.
I am aware that volt was voting mog, but volt also didn't claim to have a read on mog, so I think that's neither here nor there.
Other slightly relevant note is that volt townread Antonio for the speed of the wagon. (Which is a myth I'm going to debunk this post.)
For reference, 25 minutes to EOD I voted Antonio.
7 minutes later, with 18 minutes to go until EOD Tensu and dedenne (town) also voted Antonio.
Those were the only votes placed on him.
To me, this is far from "gaining traction too fast", this looks like a reasonable wagon that went at reasonable speeds. Perhaps the scare came from 2 votes placed within the same minute, perhaps it came with multiple other people who were mostly on the fence voicing that they "didn't mind" the lynch. Regardless, action speaks louder than words and the action on the lynch was relatively minimal. (And one of the people on the wagon is now confirmed to be town.)
I do agree that his behaviour near the very end of the day was town if anything, but I also don't think it was anything.
Personally, I do think speculation like this is useful.
What people quantify as a "strong player" are people that are influential or able to apply a lot of pressure. Yes, some of these players can be mafia, but not all. (There's more than 3 players here who I'd quantify as such.)
However, that's not the important thing; the important thing is that mafia, especially on this site, tend to have a meta of doing such. Therefore, this kill is a deviation from general behaviour. So then the question becomes "why?"
Interestingly enough, I found that volt actually pushed Kat here and here.
I think this points more towards kat being town than anything else. Why? Because he was the only one pushing Kat, i.e. she was not under much pressure, so eliminating him to relieve that pressure doesn't achieve much, and because mafia are much more liable to want to frame someone during the first night than anything else.
I am aware that volt was voting mog, but volt also didn't claim to have a read on mog, so I think that's neither here nor there.
Other slightly relevant note is that volt townread Antonio for the speed of the wagon. (Which is a myth I'm going to debunk this post.)
You say the wagon "gained traction way too quickly", but I'm going to need you to explain this in more detail.
For reference, 25 minutes to EOD I voted Antonio.
7 minutes later, with 18 minutes to go until EOD Tensu and dedenne (town) also voted Antonio.
Those were the only votes placed on him.
To me, this is far from "gaining traction too fast", this looks like a reasonable wagon that went at reasonable speeds. Perhaps the scare came from 2 votes placed within the same minute, perhaps it came with multiple other people who were mostly on the fence voicing that they "didn't mind" the lynch. Regardless, action speaks louder than words and the action on the lynch was relatively minimal. (And one of the people on the wagon is now confirmed to be town.)
I do agree that his behaviour near the very end of the day was town if anything, but I also don't think it was anything.
1) wagon against them formed extremely quickly with people citing their 'sketchy behaviour' but not actually elaborating on what exactly they were scumreading them for, i'm pretty sure kat even did a u-turn on her earlier townlean on them but will have to look back on that
2) antonio didn't bother to self-pres onto dedenne when they was looking like the lynch target at EOD which is pretty much always stubborn town move. i do not see a w!antonio t!dedenne world where antonio doesn't self-pres onto dedenne. it makes no sense
3) nothing about their behaviour pings me as different to their playstyle in the past. their general defensiveness, AtE and outspokenness makes them LHF for maf to mislynch and i'm not going for it
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i think the impression i got of the wagon speed wasn't necessarily the three votes that appeared toward EOD (although that was a factor, it was a very slow day with pretty much 0 vote movement or discussion until very close to EOD) but moreso the atmosphere in the thread when those votes started picking up
these posts were all within minutes of each other: (i know the dedenne point is useless bc we now know she's town but we didn't at the time)
it's less the speed of the wagon and more that it seemed like everyone was up for lynching him which spewed him town for me
that said, when going back to grab those quotes there are a few people (guava and volt, also kat i think) voicing concern at how easily people were potentially flipping to the antonio wagon so it is possibly not as dramatic as i was remembering. volt is confirmed townie now though so that takes some weight out of that
either way he's still my strongest townread atm
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First of all, the wagon wasn't actually very fast - as outlined in my above post.
Secondly, I elaborated into detail on my read on him, and I was the one leading the lynch.
A quick summery of that would be that he did an action, claimed it was a joke (rng lynching) then reverted to that action which he'd claimed was a joke. Which leads us to the conundrum of whether he was joking the first time - I think you'll find the answer to this (regardless of his alignment) is that he wasn't joking in the original post.
Which means that he did an action, then covered it up when it wasn't popular and passed it off as a joke. This is behaviour which while possible to see from town, is much more common among mafia, who are more concerned with their image among the town.
I will concede this point, and I touched on it briefly in my above post.
I think if you read into this, it does lend some towncred, but I also never really liked reading into town being "more likely to give up".
I've had some poor experiences with it in the past.
As someone without familiarity with Antonio, I feel the need to ask; Do you know his mafia meta? And if so, does it diverge from his play in this game? If the answer to either of those is "no" then I don't see your point.
