Nebulaquatic
ugh
I can see this thread being closed soon.
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What gender are you?
- Thread starter Moddie
- Start date
what makes you whatever gender you are is how you identify. just because you do manly things doesnt mean you're male, or you should identify as male. i didnt say stereotypes made your gender but the whole post basically made it sound like "i should feel like a boy when i play golf and i should feel like a girl when i wear make up and look pretty, but i dont, i just feel like me"
i cant speak from experience what "feeling male/female" is supposed to "feel like" because i don't feel like i'm either, so its hard to explain. But its more or less what I'm most comfortable with. Most of the time i'm comfortable in mens clothing, but I also feel more comfortable in the female bathrooms.
Especially for trans men/women (at least, from what I have read myself), they feel like their genitalia are just extra "growths" of skin that aren't meant to be there, and all in all, the most important thing is for everyone to have a sense of identity.
I can identify as female with female genitalia, but work out 24/7, drink beer, wear manly clothes, have short hair, fit all the male stereotypes etc, but I'd still be a woman above all that because that's how I identify, just as much as how i can identify as female but have a penis. One /many stereotypes doesn't automatically pin point one person as one gender or the other simply because they have this or those parts. what's the difference between having a penis and identifying as female and having a vagina with 1000 male stereotypes but still identifying as female? nothing, other than the fact society tells us that's how it is meant to be.. they're both stereotypes society tells us, that having a penis means you're a man, just like working out/drinking beer etc - there's no difference imo (that's not really what i wanted to say, it makes sense in my head but i can't turn it into words but i hope you get my point? i'm basically trying to say that having a penis doesn't make you a man any more than having excess body hair makes you a dog, youre still a person and can identify how you want regardless of what you do and don't have idk i probably lost like 50 people LOL)
Anyway, something that i found really interesting in this whole "Gender VS Sex" debate is I remember in school, learning about how this family had twins boys, circumcised them both, but ****ed one of them up, and basically destroyed his penis. so they decided to give him a sex change as a baby. his family never told him and raised him as a girl, and for all his life he felt like something was wrong, and in the end, killed himself, because he just didn't feel right and had no idea what was going on (and then i think his twin also ended up killing himself too or something but that's not really relevant to the point). That right there is a perfect example of how a penis/vagina doesn't automatically make you a boy or girl - he was biologically born a boy, and identified as male, but was "made" into a girl because of his parents, and that's not how he identified,he was just fortunate enough to be born with a penis and also identify as male, but obviously that got changed because of his parents. So just because he had a vagina doesn't mean he was, and should be a girl, because thats not how he was born, and not how he identified. so what's the difference between being assigned male at birth and transitioning into female because if anything this story really does prove that there is *something* that makes you feel like a male/female from birth, but i guess no one is really 100% sure what it is exactly.
Wikipedia isn't an article and to put it simply, I'm not reading an entire wiki 'article' where a lot of the information will be irrelevant to the question. It would be like me answering "what is a scale" with the wiki article to music.
But Wiki say "Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity."
So, gender 'is' stereotypes. Wiki said so.
EpicGamer12
Senior Member
That's "The Boy With No Penis" if anyone wants to watch it. Easy to find to watch for free on documentary sites.
The problem with that example in particular was that it can technically lend itself to the other side of the argument. He was born a male with a penis and identified as a male. If someone came over and chopped my schlong off today I'd still be a male. Also, it was easy for him to know something was wrong from the beginning because he didn't have any proper crotch organs, just a makeshift peehole. He killed himself after he found all of this out years and years later due to depression.
fup10k
Fluffy Unicorn Princess
are you incapable of seeing the section titled gender identity or...?
Why are you holding us responsible for educating you. if you want to know, look it up.
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I was thinking that would be an issue with that example as well. :/ I'm sure people would say "He still had a Y chromosome!" and stuff like that (Even though.... you can be biologically male without it lol) but you know.
EpicGamer12
Senior Member
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Tap Dancer
Senior Member
I rarely bother with Wikipedia because people change things all the time. I never know how accurate the information is.
It's sad that the tone of this thread went from nice to rude.
If you want people to understand something about you, you should try to educate them. No one is born knowing everything. People ask questions because they want to learn. However, when you give someone attitude, they'll usually walk away and their opinions won't change. If anything, they might think even worse of a group of people based on the hostility they received. I know it can be frustrating when you're not understood, but if you're not willing to educate, things won't change.fup10k
Fluffy Unicorn Princess
I rarely bother with Wikipedia because people change things all the time. I never know how accurate the information is.
It's sad that the tone of this thread went from nice to rude.
Like i said previously, if he wasn't rude and argumentative to the explanations given to him prior to me posting, I would be more than willing.
But when multiple people explain what identity is and you're still like "but what is identity" I'm going to hand you what I've already proofread that explained in further detail. (Because I actually checked it before just handing it over; i'm not dumb, i know how wikipedia works)
The point is if you actually want to know about a groups experience you should probably do a little background information check before you ask basic questions.
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you've been raised as a boy all your life tho, of course if someone came and chopped it off you'd still identify as male because you were assigned male at birth and born with a body with male sex organs?? i don't see how that's a fair point sorry?
he was assigned male at birth and born into a male body, but was switched into a female body shortly after (which he did not identify as), which is totally different to "having your schlong chopped off" years into your life after you've (presumably) developed a sense of identity.
you were raised, and identified as male all your life, he was raised as female, but identified as male all his life (i've not actually watched the documentary i only remember waht my teacher told me 2 years ago so I could be missing out on some important parts which is making me not understand properly??). but i'm really not seeing any connection here other than you are saying if it happened to you at your age you'd still identify as male but your knowledge is nowhere near on par with that of a babies so??
what's the difference between having your penis chopped off and stll identifying as male and having a vagina and identifying as male? the only difference is that one was fortunate to be born into a body where both their sex and gender matched. if i identified as 100% male and got a sex change, just because i had a vagina wouldn't automatically make me a girl, i'd still feel like a man. just because i had a vagina doesn't make me a girl.
Makes sense.
I guess the way I'm viewing it is how we can all describe to an extent 'feeling sad' or 'feeling hungover' and how they're things that people can sort of agree on how they feel. Feeling like a gender sounds like "you just do".
I'm curious to how you can screw up circumcision so change so badly that you need a sex change.
No, I'm just 'incapable' of reading wiki articles as a genuine reply.
Except he's been rude and confrontational toward explanations given. I would be more than willing if the situations were different here
No, I'm asking questions to explanations given. Asking questions is how you learn things.
I'm only being an arse when somebody is an arse with me.
Jakes explanation summed everything up quite nicely without needing to go to wikipedia. The wikipedia page doesn't have personal insight because wikipedia doesn't allow biased opinion. Biased opinion is what I want to hear.
I'ma go watch that movie to check out that exact question.
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probably because sadness is an emotion and hungover is a physical feeling whereas gender is a more sense of identity type of feeling? idk that's just how i see it
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In other words, the entire reason forums exist.
If we all just went to wiki every time we wanted an answer, forums would be irrelevant.
EpicGamer12
Senior Member
You raise valid points, but all I was trying to do is state that the specific case study you mentioned is a bit unfit for an example. You can't definitively assume how gender works biologically, especially if it seems to be so different for every person. The inconsistencies in this thread about how gender even works are pretty confusing.
Tap Dancer
Senior Member
I can read articles all day long and still have the same questions. Maybe I'm just a slow learner, but sometimes a change in wording can make all the difference in the world. I guess I was wrong in thinking that people who don't feel like they fit in as male or female would be happy to answer questions. It would help with tolerance. But if you (meaning "you" in general, not you personally) would rather people remain ignorant, you're the one who will continue to suffer.
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