The Official Feedback Thread

[Plainbluetees]

c) Ban on discussion of sexual activity.

The forum is already "PG-13" or stricter, so this will further restrict this type of discussion. Similarly, there is the ESRB Teen rating for games. If you're not familiar with these American rating systems but are interested in their meanings, I've included links that provide more details. While movie/gaming ratings are useful for comparison, our community rules don't need to (and already don't) match them.

Considerations:

• We must decide the level of sexual references that should be allowed on the forum. This is partially addressed with one of the survey questions.
• Discussions of media (movies, games, etc.) that contain sexual relationships wouldn't be banned.

I appreciate that this question was asked on the survey.
I would like to add that I do not think the example of the "how long is your dock" thread is the best. In my opinion, that seems more like it is potty humor / "middle school" jokes than more serious incidents and discussions that have taken place on the forum (see this link: this has been talked about a lot in this thread). Those discussions talk specifically about "going to bed with someone" whereas the "how long is your dock" thread, is in my opinion, just generally full of things I could see a 13 year old saying.
That level of potty humor or "sexual references" is okay in my opinion, but discussing the age of people you bring to bed with you is not. I didn't feel like I could properly express that on the survey.

it doesn't matter how long your dock is, all that matters is what's inside your heart

This is not on the same level as comments such as (I quote) "You've been spared from hearing details about my sex life"

 

[Reginald Fairfield]

I'd like to continue discussing anime pretty boys with those that can appreciate such things.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I’m really confused about what is and isn’t considered to be censor bypassing. Sometimes I see posts that only use the first letter and then block out the rest of the word and nothing happens to the posts or even symbols to represent swearing as a form of censorship but then other times there will be someone who does the same thing and that post gets deleted for containing a swear even though the user did the same exact thing as the others that have done it. This mostly apply to the Out of Context Quotes topic in Brewster’s Cafe. Sometimes a quote isn’t the same without the user censoring a word or two and they either use symbols or just the first letter and then symbols in place of the word. I’ve gotten two warnings before for doing this and had my posts deleted but yet other posts where the same thing was done are left completely alone. It’s very confusing to understand why some posts get marked for bypassing censorship and get the user a warning and the post deleted and then a post doing the same thing in the same topic is considered to be okay. I’m not trying to argue with the staff but rather want an explanation of what is really considered to be bypassing censorship and what isn’t on the site.

 

[a potato]

This is not on the same level as comments such as (I quote) "You've been spared from hearing details about my sex life"

Reading through that thread, there are definitely some posts that push it much further than the user you quoted. Personally, I don’t think that’s necessary here, *especially* in the game-specific boards. I don’t see what the innuendos contribute to game discussion. Would you (general you) ever say that in front of a group of middle schoolers in real life?

 

[LadyDestani]

I’m really confused about what is and isn’t considered to be censor bypassing. Sometimes I see posts that only use the first letter and then block out the rest of the word and nothing happens to the posts or even symbols to represent swearing as a form of censorship but then other times there will be someone who does the same thing and that post gets deleted for containing a swear even though the user did the same exact thing as the others that have done it. This mostly apply to the Out of Context Quotes topic in Brewster’s Cafe. Sometimes a quote isn’t the same without the user censoring a word or two and they either use symbols or just the first letter and then symbols in place of the word. I’ve gotten two warnings before for doing this and had my posts deleted but yet other posts where the same thing was done are left completely alone. It’s very confusing to understand why some posts get marked for bypassing censorship and get the user a warning and the post deleted and then a post doing the same thing in the same topic is considered to be okay. I’m not trying to argue with the staff but rather want an explanation of what is really considered to be bypassing censorship and what isn’t on the site.

Hi Captain Jigglypuff,

Without seeing examples, it sounds like those other posts are also bypassing censorship. The inconsistent moderation is most likely due to some posts being reported while others are not.

We aren't tracking or following every thread, especially in the basement, so we rely on user reports to catch most rule violations. If the post was never reported and we didn't see it, then we can't act on it.

Edit to add: It's also worth noting that the auto censor sometimes only partially censors a word. For example, a word that ends in -ing may not censor that last part.

 

[-Blue-]

I appreciate that this question was asked on the survey.
I would like to add that I do not think the example of the "how long is your dock" thread is the best. In my opinion, that seems more like it is potty humor / "middle school" jokes than more serious incidents and discussions that have taken place on the forum (see this link: this has been talked about a lot in this thread). Those discussions talk specifically about "going to bed with someone" whereas the "how long is your dock" thread, is in my opinion, just generally full of things I could see a 13 year old saying.
That level of potty humor or "sexual references" is okay in my opinion, but discussing the age of people you bring to bed with you is not. I didn't feel like I could properly express that on the survey.


This is not on the same level as comments such as (I quote) "You've been spared from hearing details about my sex life"

I haven't had the time to go through the survey yet, but I think that thread was used as an example because of one of my previous posts and then staff quoted my reply with something paraphrased like 'Me/us wanting the forum to be closer to PG or G instead of 13.' I'm assuming it was their pick to gauge for the minimum. Where it should start being moderated? I just want to make it clear that I'm not replying to this part, because I am against that. Because I'm not. The post(s) cited in your reply are deplorable, should've never been made, and shouldn't have a place in a Animal Crossing forum. At all.

I think it was last year? During the birthday fair event? My memory is so bad sometimes. There's occasionally a dusting event where making posts and voting in polls nets members more points. There was a thread asking everyone how they wiped their butt. I felt like that was really pushing it, cause tmi? I don't need to know how you do your wiping duties. Again, I'm not trying to ignore the posts that created this situation in the first place. I'm just giving staff the benefit of doubt that that thread was used as an example to gauge what level it should start at? Sorry for being terrible with my words or if I over-explained anything.

 

[demoness]

i did the survey but later i got an alert, you know like on the main forum page (you know the one) saying it's requested i answer the survey. so like, what does that mean? is it that just a site wide recommendation to engage decided after the initial thread announcement so everyone is aware of it or i broke it and it didn't ever finish or

 

[Shawna]

i did the survey but later i got an alert, you know like on the main forum page (you know the one) saying it's requested i answer the survey. so like, what does that mean? is it that just a site wide recommendation to engage decided after the initial thread announcement so everyone is aware of it or i broke it and it didn't ever finish or

yeah, I thought it was a bit bizarre that I didn’t get the message until after I took the survey. I even included my username for the extra TBT and so they would know my input specifically.

 

[toxapex]

I haven't done the survey and I got the alert so I assume it's just a sitewide alert like they do with events.

 

[LadyDestani]

i did the survey but later i got an alert, you know like on the main forum page (you know the one) saying it's requested i answer the survey. so like, what does that mean? is it that just a site wide recommendation to engage decided after the initial thread announcement so everyone is aware of it or i broke it and it didn't ever finish or

yeah, I thought it was a bit bizarre that I didn’t get the message until after I took the survey. I even included my username for the extra TBT and so they would know my input specifically.

It's a site wide alert to try to catch the attention of people who may not be following this thread. We just didn't think to add it at the same time the survey was launched. If you've already taken the survey, you can ignore it.

Again, I'm not trying to ignore the posts that created this situation in the first place. I'm just giving staff the benefit of doubt that that thread was used as an example to gauge what level it should start at?

This is correct. We're just looking for the baseline that the majority is uncomfortable with so we can adjust accordingly.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I answered the survey and input my name for the TBT.

 

[Bruscoe]

I completed the survey since I was bored.

One thing I thought about would be a personal feature where certain (rule-following) keywords or phrases that are mentioned in a post could be auto-hid sort of like a spoiler tag. For instance, if I were to set the phrase "this game sucks" to be scanned for in a thread and it contains an exact match, said post would be hidden entirely with a spoiler tag that can be opened with a button. The corresponding message would say something along the lines of "This post contains blocked keywords or phrases. Click here to reveal". Of course, this would only notify me and no one else. There have been several times where I was browsing off-topic threads and a sensitive topic gets mentioned that triggers my anxiety. The less I think of real-world events, the better. Not sure if such a thing could be implemented, but I think it can be better than straight-up putting offending users on an ignore list.

As for the suggestive innuendos, we need to keep in mind that there are some minors here on TBT and they cannot be exposed to stuff that could potentially make them or their parents uncomfortable. In my opinion, certain things can be allowed to an extent, but mostly kept PG. Maybe a content advisory thing could be implemented to tag alongside certain YouTube videos that mostly follow forum rules, but contain PG-13 language. I don't know. It's something that needs to be thought about.

 

[daringred_]

are we ever going to hear anything about seliph's ban? if i recall correctly, it was one of the subjects that would potentially be addressed last month, but it seems like it's been completely disregarded in favor of the rules update, even though there wasn't much of a concrete decision made on that topic. (hence the survey.) i feel like mention of the ban is a little more pressing considering the distinct lack of clarity surrounding it and the amount of people who chimed in to give their opinion and ask for a reconsideration.

 

[MrBox]

To ask if sexual references and innuendos should be allowed on the forum while using the "How long is your dock?" thread as an example is deceptive/deluding.
The "How long is your dock?" thread is more casual and playful while the issues at hand presented in this thread are not. For example, Chris talking about his sex life. etcetera etcetera. If you want to use an example for this question in your survey, I believe you should use something that is more closer to what you have been trying to defend.

I am going to put "Not sure/ no opinion" but overall this is a really poor example for this question. Because most people will be okay with the "How long is your dock?" thread.

---

I'll put this here too since this will probably be one of my last posts on TBT:

And I also agree with Daringred about Seliph's ban. It should be addressed soon.

 

[daringred_]

snip

far be it from me of all people to defend the staff, but i'm pretty sure that thread isn't meant to be a comparison to the issues/remarks that were raised in this thread. the situation developed into a discussion of what is/n't appropriate sexual content on a forum that allows young people to join, and this question is obviously trying to gage where the community considers the threshold. (i, personally, answered that the thread was a little much because some of the replies were like. why? juvenile and ultimately harmless, sure, but needlessly bizarre for an animal crossing forum.)

as for the second half, i disagree that this thread needs to be closed. sure, the staff might be stressed, but it's not exactly plain sailing for anyone trying to hold them accountable either. people have left over this, it's not trivial, and if you're stressed because your community is finally trying to hold you accountable... that's on you, not said community. i obviously agree that sending harassment and death threats etc. is too far and disgusting, but you can't tar all of us with the same brush when that could be just one person and/or someone who's deliberately trying to stir the situation. (which has been happening, as admitted in this very thread. staff are not the only ones victim of this.) once you start dictating what issues can/not be raised in this thread, it stops becoming an open and honest feedback thread. this is the most comfortable i've personally felt giving feedback on this site, because there being a thread means you can't be so easily ignored or dismissed and can see if people share the same concerns as you.

i think most of the community has been very civil, the disconnect is coming from the lack of response and transparency on the staff's end, which is continuing to happen despite being pointed out. (most of them are nowhere to be seen, for one thing.) the stance on AI art for example? completely unchanged lmao. what was the point in us even raising that just for them to basically shrug and say they can't be bothered to deal with it? seliph's ban has gone unaddressed in favor of a rules update that didn't actually amount to anything concrete. topics are being collated instead of addressed as conversation happens, which just means radio silence for weeks on end, and that looks awful if nobody can even consider to pop in and give a progress update on where discussion is at.

 

[oath2order]

So in regards to this ban, what I'm trying to understand is what people are trying to get out of it? What exactly needs to "be addressed"? I thought the reason was already provided.

The other question I have is that "is there anything staff could say that would make people accept the ban"?

 

[oak]

Are there any summer events taking place this year? Or are events on a pause for awhile.

 

[-Mars-]

Are there any summer events taking place this year? Or are events on a pause for awhile.

Hi all,

I'd like to cover a couple of the topics that I've been addressing in this thread. This post won't cover everything that I previously listed, but I promise the rest will come soon, once some details are worked out. In one of my previous posts, I mentioned the reworking of our rules, and that is also the primary focus of my post tonight. Specifically, I'll summarize some of our plans for both the enforcement and presentation of the rules.

Our current rules have been in place for several years with some updates made every now and then, and while they've served us well during this time, they're overdue for a larger overhaul. This is something that will take careful consideration, planning, and writing over multiple months. In the meantime, hopefully, this post will help explain the approach we're looking to take with certain topics. We'll also stop hosting forum events until we complete this project in order to direct our full attention to it.

 

[MrBox]

as for the second half, i disagree that this thread needs to be closed. sure, the staff might be stressed, but it's not exactly plain sailing for anyone trying to hold them accountable either. people have left over this, it's not trivial, and if you're stressed because your community is finally trying to hold you accountable... that's on you, not said community. i obviously agree that sending harassment and death threats etc. is too far and disgusting, but you can't tar all of us with the same brush when that could be just one person and/or someone who's deliberately trying to stir the situation. (which has been happening, as admitted in this very thread. staff are not the only ones victim of this.) once you start dictating what issues can/not be raised in this thread, it stops becoming an open and honest feedback thread. this is the most comfortable i've personally felt giving feedback on this site, because there being a thread means you can't be so easily ignored or dismissed and can see if people share the same concerns as you.

eh, yeah
in the original thread where people were suggesting a feedback thread, i was for it and i do like this thread for it's purposes to hold the staff accountable since there was no way to do that.

i guess to me, this thread has ran it's course, it's clear to see where the staff stands and it's just not. is there even a point to all of this. while there seems to be small movement in the staff , i don't. see a point in this if there's no change/jeremy is stubbornly and bitterly accepting feedback. so that's why i said that i can see why gabby said to close this thread.
if the staff has no plans on changing how they run this site or see what is wrong , then. that's just how TBT is. at least that's how I see it.

sorry if none of this makes sense, i have 0 energy anymore to even think about TBT anymore lmao
i was just bored yesterday and filled the survey out and just expressed what i disliked about the questions

i'm personally leaving as well, a few of my friends outside of TBT has asked me about TBT because i was frequenting on this site but i'm really glad that i didn't tell them about it even if they expressed interest in joining.
i'm happy to have met the people i have met on here. 50% of them have been lovely.

 

[daringred_]

snip

no, i totally get that lol, i don't have hope for much if any change myself, and will probably gradually stop frequenting this site as well as it dies its now seemingly inevitable slow death. whether it's intended or not, i definitely get the vibe that most staff are just trying to wait until the heat dies down and they don't have to do anything. it's certainly what the notable absences and lack of transparency/communication suggest to me. if this is how they want their site/community to be, that's their prerogative, i suppose, but the type of people that leaves behind (the staff included) aren't necessarily people i want to surround myself with. if they can't even commit to something as simple as banning AI art, what hope do other suggestions/concerns have?