Mafia Miraculous Ladybug Cultists [Congrats Cult!]

[Seroja]

*strong town read.

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oops ninja'd

 

[Heyden]

i h8 to break my formal tone thru the whole game, but srsly toads, ur terrible, like ur scumreads make no sense whatsoever imo

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imma post reads later tonight, 3-6 hours from now idk

 

[Chrystina]

As for the entropy kill, that means we have a killing role in the game that isn't cult. I'm going to place my bets on either another town Vig like role, or a SK. Chrys, I'm curious why you immediately went to a definitive SK in the game. Yes, Daniel as a Vig like role was lynched yesterday, but does that mean we can't have another town killing role? In Trump we had two Vigs (granted one shot each), but I don't think it's unheard of in a game where town loses a person each night to then contribute to the other side there could be two Vig like roles in the game. So the immediate "there's a SK," is a bit off putting. I'd still say you're a town lean, but this is something that definitely stood out to me.

Two reasons, 1 being that with Daniel being a 2 shot, I didn't find it likely for there to be another town killing role. It is slightly possible, yes. But my second reasoning is whyyyyyy would a vig shoot entropy? did anyone have her as a scum lean...? Iirc, no. If I'm wrong on this and it was indeed a town-sided role that targeted entropy, well good effing game....

I don't see quite eye to eye with you here Chrys, please do explain-



Why is it such a telltale sign that Tom agreed with Entropy? Was it something so out of character for him to do so for you to confirm him as SK?



I can't answer for Panda but in her initial read she had written "as of now" which means it was subject to change.

Ok so anyway about Panda and Chrys; like I said, they interacted like this too in Murder Mystery Mafia (MMM henceforth). From my perspective, it could very well be a town vs town thing again. Panda also mentioned that Chrys and her are close and were scum together in that game a lot too. But I'm getting a different vibe from her use of it here. It appeared to me as if she's trying to replicate her playstyle from that game to seem town but idk.

Also about Panda, her being emotional is more indicative of her being town imo. For some reason, the tone of her posts on Day 1 were somewhat detached/unemotive. I know she's been trying to be less emotional but it's just something that I'm taking note of.

Tom mentions he trusts entropy in this post:

Oh yeah, still no definite answer to this but to be honest if I absolutely had to vote someone I probably would have sheeped Entropy on Panda. Entropy's obviously pretty good and she tends to have people pegged, so I would honestly feel safe about that.

I'm still not following the logic that no lynches are even worse in cult games? Chances of us nailing town is still incredibly high, unless cop got a cult return then we're just lowering our numbers even more for cult. I'm cynical about D1 lynches as you all know, kinda getting tired of lowering our numbers just because we think it's bad.

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So what, me and Panda are a serial killer team? Damnit, should've covered our tracks better.
If I answered questions for her, I'd be stifling conversation. If you want to show me where I answered a question for her then feel free to. If I did, then that would've been a scumtell.

Suit yourself. He's cult though.

This would be an interesting concept if I hadn't dug up things that panda had erred on and literally pushed her over her Seroja read.

If it isn't clear, I don't townread Panda. There's nothing stopping Panda from being cult or serial killer at this point, and there are reasons that she could be cult present in thread. But, if she is cult or serial killer, then it isn't because of what you were just pushing her for - or what Entropy was pushing her for. Both of those are completely and utterly inherent to her playstyle as either alignment.

You're seeing red and you need to calm down, sit back and start looking at the more overall picture.
Here, try this methodology of approaching reading: Assume the person you're reading is town, and want them to be town, and if things don't quite match up pursue them. But actively pursue and want things to match up. A town player isn't looking for someone to lynch, they're trying to work together with the rest of the players to create enough information that it's harder for cult to pretend to be town.

lol "You're seeing red and you need to calm down" Ok Abe. You're acting like I rushed to the voting thread and am telling players whose first game it is, who to vote for.. Oh wait, that's your doing...
Tbh maybe I did see you as overly defending her, but still the amount you're doing isn't needed. I believe she can defend herself. Everyones bringing up that she can be very emotional as town, and tbh I've seen that said so many times in this thread (yeah I know said it about toads but turns out maybe I wasn't even right) so I'd like to see her response, rather than others.

 

[toadsworthy]

Seroja, my case on you for scum is that we all agree whoever is in cult would be around, but not trying to bring attention to themselves... and when I read all of your posts they literally said nothing. Up until you came back and called me out on my aggression towards Entropy.

I don't need you to give me definitions, I understood everything in your post fine, but from what I read in the previous game (imprison the mafia) you tend to get carried away and string too many big words together when there are far more obvious choice of words that are easier to be understood that can be used to explain things.

It's not "dumbing things down" at all.

oooo I think you understood all the points perfectly.

Special town roles (i.e doctor, detective etc) are called blue roles because they are written in blue just like mafia roles are written in red. And in this case, the mafia/cult can also as easily bluesnipe (ie hunt for blue roles) based on reads posted by town players.

the second one I think, judging by town's reads, mafia can determine which players are the biggest threats to them and can then eliminate those players.

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*(e.g. doctor, detective etc)

Thank you Toads and Curry for explaining the bus driver role!

Now then, I probably was not thinking critically because I have yet to find anyone scummy enough to place my vote on for D1. Here's my crappy list. Sorry if this list is ****ty. I'll put in more effort D2.


Town leans- Heyden, Athena, Toads, Curry, Fleshy, Amanda, Chrys, Mog
Slight town leans because of their posts (seems to be genuine). Nothing jumps out at me as scummy.

Null- Endless, Tom, Duck, entropy, Wise, Tasuot, Menchie
For Tom and entropy, they are srsly hard to read. I more or less know entropy's style is pretty relaxed and she usually writes more meaningful posts when she has gathered enough info, but I'm not comfortable with town leaning her just yet. Tom is just so wild.

Wise, Tasuot and Menchie are probably town but haven't posted enough for me to read them as such.

As for Endless, it doesn't matter if he appears to be helpful to town because he said so himself that he grinds content regardless of alignment. Null for now.

Slight sus- Panda, Dan, tae

Panda- Probably town, but most of her posts (if not all) seemed like fillers / town appearing (if that's the correct term).
Dan and Tae - actually, same reason as above.

--

On a side note, I'm leaving cpu out because she hasn't posted. I'll be going to bed now, good night!

even your "reads" barely showed anything.....

I'm still reading through the thread while I'm reading this BUT TOAD OMFG STOP! Why were you getting so mad at entropy for being "aggressive" but it was ok when you did it? Reading your posts is such a pain oml.

ok back to reading the thread.

and then its the posts from the last one where you just keep saying how annoyed you are at me. Like I'm sorry I find this strange? I don't know what you want me to say.... and no one is slandering you. Its just a game.

 

[Seroja]

@Chrys

And? Was that out of character for him to do so? Why did that make him stick out for you as him being SK?

Say if someone else, anyone else at all who had written that, would that make you sus them as SK too?

 

[Chrystina]

ebwop - when I typed "Tbh maybe I did see you as overly defending her" I meant that I over-dramatized it? It's 4am and I honestly can't think of the word rn, my bad

 

[amanda1983]

So many things to comment on with everything that happened while I was offline. I'm out atm and am battling both draining batteries (thanks pok?mon go) and rain. I've read everything here and will be making my next reads post once I'm home tonight. I'll also answer the questions asked of me at that point, too.

I'm very curious about Endless' read (s?) on me, both regarding the things I'm apparently giving weight to which I shouldn't at this stage of the game, and the possibilities alluded to when questioning mogyay. I'd appreciate any further details, please - in order to improve my gameplay personally, but also to better understand some of the by-play going on here.

 

[Chrystina]

@Chrys

And? Was that out of character for him to do so? Why did that make him stick out for you as him being SK?

Say if someone else, anyone else at all who had written that, would that make you sus them as SK too?

Can't say if it was out of character for Tom or not, really. I can never read him, especially in the past couple games. The whole Tom being possible SK was in reply to Endless. He pointed it out first, and I basically was saying 'yeah i see your point'.

If someone else had done it, sure - it's possible. I'm sure it's been done a ton of times, and worked - so it's a good play, if it happened.

 

[toadsworthy]

i h8 to break my formal tone thru the whole game, but srsly toads, ur terrible, like ur scumreads make no sense whatsoever imo

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imma post reads later tonight, 3-6 hours from now idk

you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.... at this point, I'm realizing no one is probably gonna listen to me, but when faced by people just telling me to shut up or I'm annoying or ISTG LYNCH HIM crap, I guess I just word vomit.

can't say I don't deserve this with what I've tried to pull this game.

All I can say is that I've tried to get people to change tunes, attitudes, and their bs... when maybe I got drawn into too much. Probably long-winded and not my best put-together effort.... but hopefully someone will see what I'm trying to say and the effort I put into this so far....

 

[Seroja]

Seroja, my case on you for scum is that we all agree whoever is in cult would be around, but not trying to bring attention to themselves... and when I read all of your posts they literally said nothing. Up until you came back and called me out on my aggression towards Entropy.



even your "reads" barely showed anything.....



and then its the posts from the last one where you just keep saying how annoyed you are at me. Like I'm sorry I find this strange? I don't know what you want me to say.... and no one is slandering you. Its just a game.

By slander, I mean slander me as mafia and obviously as town I'm gonna be mad. I mean, you're not the only one with emotions you see.

So anyway, thanks for explaining your scum read on me.

I admit my activity had been lacking on Day 1 but I already told you that I will be more active Day 2, and guess what? IT'S DAY 2. So me finally catching up with the thread and calling you out on your behaviour makes me scummy? Alright if you say so. Reason why I posted that (which you found so strange) is because I absolutely can't stand hypocrisy. If you think you can be aggressive to people because you can't stand them, then so can anyone else. I want you to reflect on your behaviour that's all.

My list was crappy and I didn't even call it my reads. It was more of my thoughts at that moment. I was unmotivated. Nothing can excuse it lol. It's the weekend so I'll be able to put out a more substantial list of reads.

 

[toadsworthy]

By slander, I mean slander me as mafia and obviously as town I'm gonna be mad. I mean, you're not the only one with emotions you see.

So anyway, thanks for explaining your scum read on me.

I admit my activity had been lacking on Day 1 but I already told you that I will be more active Day 2, and guess what? IT'S DAY 2. So me finally catching up with the thread and calling you out on your behaviour makes me scummy? Alright if you say so. Reason why I posted that (which you found so strange) is because I absolutely can't stand hypocrisy. If you think you can be aggressive to people because you can't stand them, then so can anyone else. I want you to reflect on your behaviour that's all.

My list was crappy and I didn't even call it my reads. It was more of my thoughts at that moment. I was unmotivated. Nothing can excuse it lol. It's the weekend so I'll be able to put out a more substantial list of reads.

I have reflected on my behavior multiple times throughout this actually, I was well aware of what I was doing as I was doing it.... the more I did it, the less I realized people would actually be able to distinguish helping clear the bs vs adding to it. I know its not the best idea to fight fire with fire, but I had seen it work before in spurts.... maybe not so full out aggressively all at one time though

 

[Endless]

Endless, I get that you voted for Tom and want him lynched, but Menchie, a new player says "Tom seems a bit off" with no expansion and you say that's perfectly valid and to put a vote on Tom? You know damn well if Tom or Chrys or myself said "x seems a bit off" you wouldn't be like "Hey, that's valid! Go vote for them so we can get them lynched!" Why are you in a one sentence reason telling a new player to vote for someone? ESPECIALLY when in the same thought they wrote that they had suspicions on someone dead? Come on Abe, you know encouraging a vote like that isn't good.

Nah this is different.

If Chrys or you said it, I'd ask you to try and figure out what about him seemed off. Gut is our brain's way of telling us something doesn't quite add up.
Menchie is new and A) gut is a perfectly valid reason from a new player B) I didn't want him mod-killed for failing to vote this day phase. (Which is why I also included a link to the vote thread in my post.)
And I wasn't manipulating him into anything - he scumread Tom all by himself.

New players need baby steps.

lol "You're seeing red and you need to calm down" Ok Abe. You're acting like I rushed to the voting thread and am telling players whose first game it is, who to vote for.. Oh wait, that's your doing...

I'm just concerned that you're getting too fixated on this read, and instead of objectively viewing whether or not she's town, are instead looking and digging for reasons she's cult/SK. (A trap I used to fall into a lot.)

Tbh maybe I did see you as overly defending her, but still the amount you're doing isn't needed. I believe she can defend herself. Everyones bringing up that she can be very emotional as town, and tbh I've seen that said so many times in this thread (yeah I know said it about toads but turns out maybe I wasn't even right) so I'd like to see her response, rather than others.

Eh, I don't really agree with this. When you corner an emotional player against a wall and push them hard all they do is flounder as either alignment.
Which of course is fine so long as you have good logic that indicates that they're mafia or a line of thought you want them to explain, but otherwise all you're doing is inhibiting their ability to grind content and prove themselves as town.
Of course, it's not my place to decide whether something is a good line of thought or not, but when half the content since night end is you two, I feel like I'm obligated to halt it. (Especially when all you're achieving is throwing panda into an emotional frenzy.)

This is more or less exactly what I was doing for Toad last game, if you remember.

I'm very curious about Endless' read (s?) on me, both regarding the things I'm apparently giving weight to which I shouldn't at this stage of the game, and the possibilities alluded to when questioning mogyay. I'd appreciate any further details, please - in order to improve my gameplay personally, but also to better understand some of the by-play going on here.

Protown behaviour is beneficial to town and should be encouraged, but in of itself it is not a towntell. This was largely controlled by your method of reading, which doesn't include towntells, but rather reasons to believe whether people are cult or not. I believe as you progress your playstyle will change, but for what it is right now, you're doing really god damn well for your first game.

As for the invalid reasons for townreading you, here are a couple: Appears to be grinding content, posted her reads so that people could see where she was at, is being helpful, is being clear etc.
The reason Mog did wind up posting was close enough to the single good reason for townreading you.

 

[tae]

toads a flaming **** show BC he's anxious again about being scum/cult.

please can we lynch him I swear to god. there's so much filler and total chaos in every single posts he's horribly constructed it's so obvious he's not town. this is not his meta. he makes no sense and holy hell is he causing a mess.

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also it's 4am and I'm tired. I'll explain my rainbow tomorrow. (today but like 6+ hours from now)

 

[Fleshy]

I have a lot from last night/ this morning to read, I'm just posting my thoughts on a few things that jumped out to me while skimming the thread;

-snip-
Wise has not been on since voting me day 1.... I think I have a right to throw a vote on them this early, but don't worry, I plan on posting solid reads and probably changing the vote before end of day. but just to pressure them

Yeah I will definitely change it.... but if it annoys Wise in the slightest, then its done their job, homie needs to pay attention and be active. And I know if I just place a vote down, then everyone will think I'm sus so I have to justify it a little bit. But Wise put a vote on me for literally no reason ten seconds into the game. So I have no remorse in lynching their inactive and bs posting self because they are no help to town anyway

Didn't you say yesterday we need to pay attention and put more effort into our votes? Well honestly this seems like the opposite to me, seriously putting a vote on Wise at this point? I understand your reasoning, I really do but it seems like you're acting on personal emotions (obviously he voted you) rather than actually working in the best interest of town. I'm sus of Wise too, but he hasn't even been online in days, I really don't think he's a threat to town at this point (i might be wrong, but..), putting a vote on his like this just to get a rise out of him/ pressure him seems like such a waste of time, it probably won't do anything. If you wanted to put a qquick vote on to pressure someone at this point one of the quieter players (but not inactive) or someone who was being questioned after entropy's death last night probably would have been a better idea, you'd probably have gotten a rise out of one of them which would likely have given us some information, instead of just throwing a random vote on an inactive.

These were your first two votes after the death last night yet you're still focusing on being randomly voted right at the start. I think you're just putting your emotions into play rather than thinking through what's actually best for town. (when I read this over i think it comes across a little rude? that's not my intention at all, just pointing out that this seems like emotional play and i don't think it'll benefit town)

Also I want off the bus driver's wild ride, you're going to make me look bad ;-;

Is this serious? If you think it would make you look bad, why even mention it? I think you're the only one making yourself look bad at this point, but maybe i'm just confused by what's going on.

 

[Endless]

Interesting theory: (Just a possibility we should consider. I don't think it's particularly likely, but it's certainly possible.)

Bus driver townread Entropy and thought Tom was cult. So bus driver drove Entropy/Tom so that a serial killer (Which we're assuming that they assumed was in the game) who targeted Entropy would kill Tom instead.

There is no SK, and a vigilante attempted to shoot Tom during the night. The bus driver's play backfired and Entropy was accidentally killed by the combined action of two blue roles.

 

[Seroja]

toads a flaming **** show BC he's anxious again about being scum/cult.

please can we lynch him I swear to god. there's so much filler and total chaos in every single posts he's horribly constructed it's so obvious he's not town. this is not his meta. he makes no sense and holy hell is he causing a mess.

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also it's 4am and I'm tired. I'll explain my rainbow tomorrow. (today but like 6+ hours from now)

I'm inclined to believe that toad being super emotional is because he's town but it's interesting that you think his posts are full of fillers. I look forward to a more in depth case on toads from you after you wake up.

Interesting theory: (Just a possibility we should consider. I don't think it's particularly likely, but it's certainly possible.)

Bus driver townread Entropy and thought Tom was cult. So bus driver drove Entropy/Tom so that a serial killer (Which we're assuming that they assumed was in the game) who targeted Entropy would kill Tom instead.

There is no SK, and a vigilante attempted to shoot Tom during the night. The bus driver's play backfired and Entropy was accidentally killed by the combined action of two blue roles.

Hmm, but with Daniel's role, is it possible that a vig is also present in the game? It's an interesting theory indeed but probably wasn't the case.

@Fleshy- what Toad did was much like what he did to cpu. It's worth a shot I guess. He won't stick with it and will probably change his votes before EoD. I think he's explained this a lot of times. I personally don't think it's something to read much into because I'm pretty sure he's town.

 

[mogyay]

i personally don't see toad as being scum, when has toad not acted like an emotional rollercoaster? also despite my inaccurate read on him in the turbo mafia i still realised there was a difference in play and i'm not sensing a similar feeling in this game. of course i do think toad should tone it down a lot (easier said than done though as a fellow emotional person) 'cause it's obvious this isn't helping him or town. this is someone who has not stopped caring throughout this game, who has called out numerous people and one of the most active players, i just don't see him being part of the cult, also doubt he's gonna be culted if anyone saw him in the turbo game. also to everyone saying his reads were bad he was one of the few who believed dan to be town, while his reads were fairly inarticulate you can't deny they were right so i dunno if you can call them bad? idk i'm just not feeling the whole toad being scum thing.

seroja, this isn't like you at all, i'm sorry that you're unmotivated but this isn't the town seroja i know. you're usually calm and collected and yet toad seems to be getting such a rise from you? in every game you've played as town you've been so active and on the ball, calling out and questioning numerous people. idk, i'm just getting an off feeling. i'm looking forward to seeing your reads later though. i'm sorry but what toad said is kinda right (even if he phrased it badly) it's been literally like 4 days now and you've barely posted anything substantial, it's fine you're busy but i'm at the point where i don't think we can keep accepting this. i don't know if you're cult, i don't know if you're just trying to slip past people's attention (same goes for tae and crys) i can't town read/lean you because i just don't have anything to go off. i'm not really too worried about it right now as you both said you'll post later but i just wanted to let you guys know why i'm slightly suspicious of you guys (and not so much the new players as i think that's another issue, although i'm not saying it might not be the same case)!

also i'm working tonight and tomorrow morning/afternoon so if i'm not around that's why

 

[Fleshy]

Interesting theory: (Just a possibility we should consider. I don't think it's particularly likely, but it's certainly possible.)

Bus driver townread Entropy and thought Tom was cult. So bus driver drove Entropy/Tom so that a serial killer (Which we're assuming that they assumed was in the game) who targeted Entropy would kill Tom instead.

There is no SK, and a vigilante attempted to shoot Tom during the night. The bus driver's play backfired and Entropy was accidentally killed by the combined action of two blue roles.

This is definitely interesting, and with Tom implying he was "bussed" again last night it is possible. With 21 players, two vigs wouldn't be that much of a stretch, right? I'm not sure but I don't think we're in any position to dismiss any theories at this point.

-snip-

@Fleshy- what Toad did was much like what he did to cpu. It's worth a shot I guess. He won't stick with it and will probably change his votes before EoD. I think he's explained this a lot of times. I personally don't think it's something to read much into because I'm pretty sure he's town.

I get what you're saying, I just don't really think that it is worth a shot, it's emotional play and a waste of time imo. I've gone back and read his explanations, and it does make sense, I am still townreading him at the moment, i just find some things a little off. It's also funny you mention being emotional as a reason to townread like that, yes that's normal from Toad, but you? not so much, in my experience.

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toads a flaming **** show BC he's anxious again about being scum/cult.

please can we lynch him I swear to god. there's so much filler and total chaos in every single posts he's horribly constructed it's so obvious he's not town. this is not his meta. he makes no sense and holy hell is he causing a mess.

It kind of is? In all the games I've played with him (all the games i've played, iirc) he's acted like this, emotional as hell. Some things he's done is sending slight red flags for me too though, I'd just like a better explanation because I don't really see it.

 

[Seroja]

seroja, this isn't like you at all, i'm sorry that you're unmotivated but this isn't the town seroja i know. you're usually calm and collected and yet toad seems to be getting such a rise from you? in every game you've played as town you've been so active and on the ball, calling out and questioning numerous people. idk, i'm just getting an off feeling. i'm looking forward to seeing your reads later though. i'm sorry but what toad said is kinda right (even if he phrased it badly) it's been literally like 4 days now and you've barely posted anything substantial, it's fine you're busy but i'm at the point where i don't think we can keep accepting this. i don't know if you're cult, i don't know if you're just trying to slip past people's attention (same goes for tae and crys) i can't town read/lean you because i just don't have anything to go off. i'm not really too worried about it right now as you both said you'll post later but i just wanted to let you guys know why i'm slightly suspicious of you guys (and not so much the new players as i think that's another issue, although i'm not saying it might not be the same case)!

also i'm working tonight and tomorrow morning/afternoon so if i'm not around that's why

It's alright, I am not playing like I usually did because my usual play style is tiring. I take hours to construct in depth reads up to 5-6 hours just ISO-ing people's posts and you know what? I didn't have time to do that on Day 1 with these many players. It's the weekends now and you can already see how many posts I've made today (whether or not it was to argue with Toads lmao).

But anyway yes Toads riled me up, but was that a fair comparison? In my past games, I just didn't find anything annoying enough for me to get angry over. And clearly I wasn't the only one who couldn't stand Toads earlier either. Anyway, even as scum I was calm. So this point is rather invalid.

With all of this said, I'm starting to see why Curry and Endless always argued that meta isn't the best way to read people if it's the sole aspect you have got going for it. I'm definitely not playing like my usual town self but I can tell you that I am town this game.

 

[mogyay]

It's alright, I am not playing like I usually did because my usual play style is tiring. I take hours to construct in depth reads up to 5-6 hours just ISO-ing people's posts and you know what? I didn't have time to do that on Day 1 with these many players. It's the weekends now and you can already see how many posts I've made today (whether or not it was to argue with Toads lmao).

But anyway yes Toads riled me up, but was that a fair comparison? In my past games, I just didn't find anything annoying enough for me to get angry over. And clearly I wasn't the only one who couldn't stand Toads earlier either. Anyway, even as scum I was calm. So this point is rather invalid.

With all of this said, I'm starting to see why Curry and Endless always argued that meta isn't the best way to read people if it's the sole aspect you have got going for it. I'm definitely not playing like my usual town self but I can tell you that I am town this game.

well you've given me nothing else to go on lol so meta it has to be for now