Are tips really tips anymore?

[Darumy]

The US is weird with tipping. I might be totally misinformed/tunnel vision (my sister works as a waitress though) but I have heard of quite a few instances where tips are counted as the actual pay of the server, so there's a deduction and etc. which makes you a huge ~euphimism~ doo doo donk face if you don't tip. Reversely, I hear in a lot of other countries, tipping is considered an act of pity/charity or at least not normal.

So it's way different from tipping in ACNL imo. Here, it's just a solid way of saying thanks. I try to tip for every service I am given, I think it's just the polite thing to do. If you force people to "tip" you, despite the fact you did not clarify that it was mandatory and the majority chance is they did not damage your town or cause you any extra trouble (you're not forced to let people sell), then I just, no. Like others said, just say "give me 10%" or whatever in your original post and I'm sure most of the people who post to sell will be fine with that. Tipping is a kind act, not a professional one here as far as I can tell.

 

[Twisk]

Don't mistake the tone of the thread as people being selfish because you are misconstruing the whole point of it.

What jolokia said, I've said multiple times already: THAT IS A FEE. And everyone has the right to charge a fee, but DO NOT call them tips.

We've said we're fine paying fees but call it as it is. Don't call it tips. Tips are never required and are never an obligation. That is not what a tip is.

Well I find it a little weird that you're so hung up on the specific word people call it, tips vs. fee. Keep in mind that not everyone who plays AC:NL has English as their native language, or the vocabulary knowledge to know the subtle differences between words like this with fairly similar meanings. Also, "fee" implies that it's a set requirement, and maybe some people who require tips don't want to specify an exact amount. Tipping implies that it's up to the visitor what exactly to tip, so they could drop 1,000 or 50,000 or millions if they want to, just as long as it's a little something to show appreciation for what the host went out of their way to do.

I regret that my original post came off a little harsh and that I used the word selfish, but I was just trying to express my opinion that I have no problems with required tips/fees/whatever, and that's it's pretty understandable imo. I don't like seeing people who are going out of their way to help others make bells painted as greedy for wanting something in return. They could've just kept that turnip price to themselves :s

 

[tealseer]

they can do what they want, honestly i think most people are expecting a tip but are just trying to be subtle about it.
i always tip though, usually a million at minimal

Really? Can you tip me XD

 

[ALLCAPS]

Why is that weird? English isn't my native language either. But I know the basic difference of tips and fees anyway. Tips are something born from gratitude. You're very thankful for the thing done for you and so you give a tip as thanks. Fees are something you pay for a service that is done for you. When a restaurant charges for a service fee, you don't give additional tips because you already paid a fee. It's really a huge difference.

And opening your town to turnip sellers is actually a way to make bells. If you've read posts here, people who open their towns say the same. They make bells out of tips, which is completely fine and they are deserving of it for their effort. People make bells out of fees for letting people in, and that's fine too and they deserve it. It's fine to want something in return and no one ever said all of them are greedy for doing so. Again, we said we're completely okay with paying fees as long as we're 1) told beforehand, 2) not forced to, 3) not guilt-tripped to. It's icky to be forced, guilt-tripped, or required to be thankful.

Tell me honestly that they want a fee and I will gladly pay it. If they don't know the amount they want me to pay or want me to decide, then that's fine. It's still a fee and not a tip.

I don't like seeing people who are going out of their way to help others make bells painted as greedy for wanting something in return. They could've just kept that turnip price to themselves :s

Likewise, I don't like seeing people who are actually complaining about something valid suddenly be accused of being selfish and/or guilt-tripped for even daring to complain. I know you mean well for trying to defend people who open their town, and that's great, but you missed the entire point of the thread and skipped a whole lot of us saying WE'RE COMPLETELY FINE PAYING FEES. You immediately jumped to calling us selfish and implying that we paint everyone who want something in return as greedy. Please read our posts first.

 

[dreamysnowx]

Exactly why being asked to pay upon entry isn't considered a tip. At that point, it's a fee. So people shouldn't be dishonest and call it 'tipping' them. Just outright say 'pay me this amount' and there is no problem. I'm fine with having to pay too.

Like you said, tips aren't requirements. So if people are requiring you to tip, then they are not tips and so shouldn't be called as such, otherwise they just come off as dishonest. > n>

Exactly! And I find it nice enough people open up their gates to let people over to sell. For me, if I got high turnip prices, I doubt i'll let anyone (but friends) come over to sell as I'm very scared someone might come and run/steal in my town while selling. A fee is totally fine, everyone who comes sell turnips make a lot of profit anyways! :}

 

[Kildor]

I'd always say, "tips would be appreciated, but not necessary."
Those who force tips are horrible people. If you say it's a free thing, don't force people to tip you.
That's f**king rude. I'd rather have someone tip me out of gratefulness rather than forcefully tipping them.

 

[dreamysnowx]

Why is that weird? English isn't my native language either. But I know the basic difference of tips and fees anyway. Tips are something born from gratitude. You're very thankful for the thing done for you and so you give a tip as thanks. Fees are something you pay for a service that is done for you. When a restaurant charges for a service fee, you don't give additional tips because you already paid a fee. It's really a huge difference.

And opening your town to turnip sellers is actually a way to make bells. If you've read posts here, people who open their towns say the same. They make bells out of tips, which is completely fine and they are deserving of it for their effort. People make bells out of fees for letting people in, and that's fine too and they deserve it. It's fine to want something in return and no one ever said all of them are greedy for doing so. Again, we said we're completely okay with paying fees as long as we're 1) told beforehand, 2) not forced to, 3) not guilt-tripped to. It's icky to be forced, guilt-tripped, or required to be thankful.

Tell me honestly that they want a fee and I will gladly pay it. If they don't know the amount they want me to pay or want me to decide, then that's fine. It's still a fee and not a tip.



Likewise, I don't like seeing people who are actually complaining about something valid suddenly be accused of being selfish and/or guilt-tripped for even daring to complain. I know you mean well for trying to defend people who open their town, and that's great, but you missed the entire point of the thread and skipped a whole lot of us saying WE'RE COMPLETELY FINE PAYING FEES. You immediately jumped to calling us selfish and implying that we paint everyone who want something in return as greedy. Please read our posts first.

This whole post basically sums things up. :}

 

[Twisk]

Why is that weird? English isn't my native language either. But I know the basic difference of tips and fees anyway. Tips are something born from gratitude. You're very thankful for the thing done for you and so you give a tip as thanks. Fees are something you pay for a service that is done for you. When a restaurant charges for a service fee, you don't give additional tips because you already paid a fee. It's really a huge difference.

And opening your town to turnip sellers is actually a way to make bells. If you've read posts here, people who open their towns say the same. They make bells out of tips, which is completely fine and they are deserving of it for their effort. People make bells out of fees for letting people in, and that's fine too and they deserve it. It's fine to want something in return and no one ever said all of them are greedy for doing so. Again, we said we're completely okay with paying fees as long as we're 1) told beforehand, 2) not forced to, 3) not guilt-tripped to. It's icky to be forced, guilt-tripped, or required to be thankful.

Tell me honestly that they want a fee and I will gladly pay it. If they don't know the amount they want me to pay or want me to decide, then that's fine. It's still a fee and not a tip.



Likewise, I don't like seeing people who are actually complaining about something valid suddenly be accused of being selfish and/or guilt-tripped for even daring to complain. I know you mean well for trying to defend people who open their town, and that's great, but you missed the entire point of the thread and skipped a whole lot of us saying WE'RE COMPLETELY FINE PAYING FEES. You immediately jumped to calling us selfish and implying that we paint everyone who want something in return as greedy. Please read our posts first.

I just think it's petty to get so up in arms about someone's word choice in this instance, like who cares? If someone says "tips are required" they might mean that they want all visitors to leave something, but they can leave whatever amount they choose. If someone says "tips are appreciated" then that makes it clear that the tip is optional, and again, that the tip amount is up to the visitor. If someone says "a tip of 10% is required" I don't think there's any miscommunication going on, and being outraged that they used the word "tip" instead of "fee" seems silly, maybe the word "fee" just didn't come to mind? And again, maybe they weren't even familiar with it? And yes, you seem to have a great understanding on the difference between the two words, but maybe not everyone does? And these people see the word "tip" being used on forums and decide to use the same word? ...

You could do with re-reading my post as well, since I was not calling everyone in this thread selfish. If you understand why it's nice to give people tips, I was not even referring to you so you or anyone else!

 

[Gingersnap]

Tipping should only be done if the person wishes too, I'm pretty stingy (maybe the inner onl child in me is showing...) so I would prefer to keep my money then give it away. I'm not the type who likes to share :L
A forced tip in my opinion is just kind of mean, I prefer it when the thread says "tip is optional" in that case I'll drop one or two bags of money, not 700k.
(This actually happened to me when I sold my turnips and I was pretty livid after a good chunk of my earnings went to someone else.)

 

[ALLCAPS]

I just think it's petty to get so up in arms about someone's word choice in this instance, like who cares?

Um, do you want me to quote everyone else in the thread or--?

Because, um, there have been people who said the same about the terms, not just me. So all of us are petty then?

You could do with re-reading my post as well, since I was not calling everyone in this thread selfish. If you understand why it's nice to give people tips, I was not even referring to you so you or anyone else!

Then who were you referring to when you said this?

the general tone of this thread

If you don't like that someone requires tips

That sounds like pretty much all of us in the thread. It precedes these words

or if you're selfish enough to not understand why it's nice to give tips

regardless of being said with an "or" still lumps people in one sentence. It's hard to differentiate when all there is separating apparently two different kinds of people is one comma and with your initial tone it didn't sound like either were separate. If I misread your tone, then I apologize, but I still think you need to read not just my posts but others' too.

If you think I'm being nit-picky with the words "fees" and "tips" then I will be nit-picky about how you construct sentences too. Sorry.

 

[aimeekitty]

I think it's entirely up to the host.

They're spending a lot time letting people go back and forth in their town and taking a risk that they might mess something up, etc?. but mostly it's a lot of time spent. I personally feel like time is valuable, so I don't have a problem with the host "charging" a fee for people to visit if they are going to be spending 30min+ and making 10mill or whatever.

If people don't want to charge, that's AWESOME and very generous, but I wouldn't get mad at someone for charging. I either tip or try to repay someone in kind.

 

[Carbohydrates]

The US is weird with tipping. I might be totally misinformed/tunnel vision (my sister works as a waitress though) but I have heard of quite a few instances where tips are counted as the actual pay of the server, so there's a deduction and etc. which makes you a huge ~euphimism~ doo doo donk face if you don't tip.

I'm a server in TX. A lot of people don't know this: there's a minimum tipping wage that's massively lower than regular ol' minimum wage. I get paid $2.15/hr in wages (most of which I never see since it pays the taxes on what I make in tips); everything else is tips. If you eat at my restaurant and don't tip, theeeen I starve. It's a pretty dumb system.

BACK ON TOPIC I do feel like distinguishing 'tip' from 'fee' is important. Charge a fee all you want, sure, but please put up no false pretenses about it. Even if you disagree that there's an important difference, clearly enough people in this thread do that you're gonna wanna be careful about your word choice.

 

[jolokia]

...Did I make a left turn instead of a right? Am I on 4chan's /ck/ board with all this arguing about tips?

OP never asked whether it was right for people to ask for payment (everyone in the thread agrees that it's absolutely fine for people do that, including ALLCAPS, who's being jumped on unfairly). The controversy is over calling it tipping when by definition a tip is optional.

If it's required, it's a fee. And we're all fine with paying a fee. But a fee is not a tip. Say I went to a town to do something and the person asks for 5000 bells for the privilege of doing that thing. The person was really nice, so I drop 8000 bells. The first 5000 is the fee the extra 3000 would be the tip.

 

[ALLCAPS]

I ended up quoting anyway because I am oh-so-petty (self-fulfilling prophecy, derp):

Tips aren't requirements, it's common courtesy. But I'm fine with having to pay to enter towns to sell turnips, I don't really see it as "forcing" in any way. :]

If someone is going to expect payment, that's not a tip and could probably qualify for harassment if they force you to. It's not like tipping servers in restaurants in real life, these people chose to open their town and do not suffer consequences they're not prepared for from the lack of a tip.

I've never asked for tips or payment for anything unless I was explicitly selling it. If people want to leave something, fine, but I'm capable of making of my own bells and if time is seriously an issue, I just won't invite people in at all. If I know someone is having a hard time earning bells, I'll flat out refuse it in any situation.

I do always tip when I'm the visitor though.

If they ask for a tip, that's a fee...and I've never gone to those towns to sell turnips. There are lots of other nice people that don't charge a fee, and I'd rather give a tip to them than a fee to someone less generous. I guess when it's a tip I feel good about giving it, when it's a fee, I feel kind of stingy. It's weird. o.o

I don't do turnips, but I wouldn't expect a tip even if I did. When I do things for free I do them to be nice, not to make money. If I wanted money I would have asked for it outright, and it couldn't be called a tip in that case. Not that tips aren't appreciated, but I'm not going to be disappointed if I don't get any because I never asked for anything in the first place.

Right, but if it's required, it's not a tip, it's a fee. A tip is generally considered to be an optional gift for a service rendered, at least in my country. I think the US does things otherwise so maybe people are interpreting the word differently.

So it's way different from tipping in ACNL imo. Here, it's just a solid way of saying thanks. I try to tip for every service I am given, I think it's just the polite thing to do. If you force people to "tip" you, despite the fact you did not clarify that it was mandatory and the majority chance is they did not damage your town or cause you any extra trouble (you're not forced to let people sell), then I just, no. Like others said, just say "give me 10%" or whatever in your original post and I'm sure most of the people who post to sell will be fine with that. Tipping is a kind act, not a professional one here as far as I can tell.

I personally feel like time is valuable, so I don't have a problem with the host "charging" a fee for people to visit if they are going to be spending 30min+ and making 10mill or whatever.

If people don't want to charge, that's AWESOME and very generous, but I wouldn't get mad at someone for charging. I either tip or try to repay someone in kind.

People in this thread know what a tip is supposed to be at least. Some use the words charges/payments as a term for fee.

Basically, they know the difference, and I think they care that there is a difference.

 

[Jesusfreakette]

...Did I make a left turn instead of a right? Am I on 4chan's /ck/ board with all this arguing about tips?

OP never asked whether it was right for people to ask for payment (everyone in the thread agrees that it's absolutely fine for people do that, including ALLCAPS, who's being jumped on unfairly). The controversy is over calling it tipping when by definition a tip is optional.

If it's required, it's a fee. And we're all fine with paying a fee. But a fee is not a tip. Say I went to a town to do something and the person asks for 5000 bells for the privilege of doing that thing. The person was really nice, so I drop 8000 bells. The first 5000 is the fee the extra 3000 would be the tip.

I feel like this is a really good summary of this conversation.

I think I was originally the one who brought up waiter-tipping, and I did not mean it to cause so much controversy. I was just trying to think of a time when "tips" were expected as a cultural norm, and how maybe that was influencing the people who were expecting tips in-game.

We just want to make sure both sides were represented, that way everybody knows it's okay if they think differently...

 

[Twisk]

Then who were you referring to when you said this?

I was referring to people who don't even think about the fact that there's a real living person behind the screen who took time out of their day to do this, doesn't even cross their mind to be thankful. People who might even think "this person has lots of hybrids, let me take one on my way out after just making millions of bells off of them!" Hey, you can't deny there are people like this out there, and threads pop up about town-destroying disasters sometimes, even when someone had opened up their gates for a kind deed like turnip-selling. I wasn't referring to you, and in fact, read your posts in this thread and generally agreed with them (except for being so angry that someone might mistakenly use the word "tip" in a wrong way, because I guess I don't personally agree with being so angry about such a thing). I thought it was nice that you said you always tip, I thought to myself "good for you, this is someone who understands and is appreciative!" So please don't take it so personal! o_o

As for analyzing my sentence structure... like, idek what to say to that? But yeah, being nitpicky about the way I wrote my post does remind me of the way you're being nitpicky about whether people say "tip" when the right word might be "fee," even though the meaning and what they're asking for is clear regardless of the mistake or misuse of the word.

 

[ALLCAPS]

I was referring to people who don't even think about the fact that there's a real living person behind the screen who took time out of their day to do this, doesn't even cross their mind to be thankful. People who might even think "this person has lots of hybrids, let me take one on my way out after just making millions of bells off of them!" Hey, you can't deny there are people like this out there, and threads pop up about town-destroying disasters sometimes, even when someone had opened up their gates for a kind deed like turnip-selling. I wasn't referring to you, and in fact, read your posts in this thread and generally agreed with them (except for being so angry that someone might mistakenly use the word "tip" in a wrong way, because I guess I don't personally agree with being so angry about such a thing). I thought it was nice that you said you always tip, I thought to myself "good for you, this is someone who understands and is appreciative!" So please don't take it so personal! o_o

I'm not "angry" about stuff like that, but I do feel it's important in terms of being honest about what you really want as a host. If you want to get paid, then say so. Don't put it in the guise of tipping.

Again, did you read what I posted? What others posted? Because I've differentiated the premises of both words and you still don't seem to understand why the difference is important?

But, I mean, thank you for thinking so nicely of me, but that wasn't really the point and you seem to have skipped like the majority of our points...

You seem to have a general mistrust of people coming in your town. Understandable, but not everyone feels the same way about people. That's why they don't charge anything for people coming into their town to sell turnips. And that's why I said it's completely fine to charge people. But, uh, I said all of this already in different words like multiple posts ago so...

As for analyzing my sentence structure... like, idek what to say to that? But yeah, being nitpicky about the way I wrote my post does remind me of the way you're being nitpicky about whether people say "tip" when the right word might be "fee," even though the meaning and what they're asking for is clear regardless of the mistake or misuse of the word.

I'm not the only one who thinks so. I think it's weird that you're singling me out when, uh, I'm not the only one who thinks so???????????

It's also not just the misuse we're talking about?? Ummmm, the other posts??? Did you reeeeeeeaaaaaad them?? Did you read the OP too?

That's why I've repeatedly said you missed the point of the thread...

 

[Ettienne]

I'm not a turnip person, to be honest. But I'd leave a tip if I visited someone's town to sell. Now, if they required a tip I think I'd pick somewhere else. A tip being a show of gratuity, not a fee.

 

[Waluigi]

Things escalated quickly here

Fees are optional, But say theyre fees.


One time someone said they would let people sell turnips, but would have to "tip" 20% of their profit. Greed like that annoys me.

 

[Twisk]

I'm not "angry" about stuff like that, but I do feel it's important in terms of being honest about what you really want as a host. If you want to get paid, then say so. Don't put it in the guise of tipping.

Again, did you read what I posted? What others posted? Because I've differentiated the premises of both words and you still don't seem to understand why the difference is important?

But, I mean, thank you for thinking so nicely of me, but that wasn't really the point and you seem to have skipped like the majority of our points...

You seem to have a general mistrust of people coming in your town. Understandable, but not everyone feels the same way about people. That's why they don't charge anything for people coming into their town to sell turnips. And that's why I said it's completely fine to charge people. But, uh, I said all of this already in different words like multiple posts ago so...



I'm not the only one who thinks so. I think it's weird that you're singling me out when, uh, I'm not the only one who thinks so???????????

It's also not just the misuse we're talking about?? Ummmm, the other posts??? Did you reeeeeeeaaaaaad them?? Did you read the OP too?

That's why I've repeatedly said you missed the point of the thread...

Er wow, I'm starting to feel attacked here, and stressed out and full of anxiety about this, and I think I need to just back out of this thread, and maybe TBT as a whole? I don't know why you keep asking me if I've read stuff when I have, I don't know why you're acting like I'm distrusting and some horrible person for what I'm saying here, I just... I don't know. I will probably just not respond to anything after this. Just to be clear one last time, though, all I was saying (or TRYING to say) was that I think it should be up to the host to decide things like tips, fees, etc., and that people should respect and not judge those decisions, and simply not sell turnips in their town if they don't like that they're asking for tips or fees. (It reminds me of how sometimes people complain about others' town rules, when IMO it should be up to them!) I did feel like a few people in this thread sounded judgmental about such decisions (maybe I misunderstood them, though!), and you're asking me to point fingers at them and be clear about who I was referring to in my post, which makes me uncomfortable, I don't want to do that, sorry! And as I said before, in my "selfish" comment, I was referring to people who only think of themselves when visiting other towns, and not at all about the host, and use them and maybe even steal and destroy their town, and then leave. I was not referring to you and I'm sorry if I was at all unclear! As for me sounding distrusting, I'm more just...cautious? I like to keep an eye on strangers who I know absolutely nothing about, because I'm too invested in my town to take risks like that, but I let friends I've gotten to know roam free and do whatever they want. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

My disagreement with you about the use of tips vs. fees was based on the fact that maybe not everyone understands the difference, or knows the full meaning of one of the words. I guess I don't think it's universal knowledge and it's an easy to mistake to make. I prefer to be understanding if people make a mistake like that and not judge them for it. Simply correcting someone for the mistake is fine, but judging them for it and jumping down their throats in a turnip-selling thread about it, I don't agree with that!