A Deeper Look into What's Missing in The New Mario Games

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Nintendo have been releasing Mario games for a while now, but the magic somehow seemed to stop after Mario Sunshine. Well, I am not saying Galaxy and whatever came after it were bad, just that they didn't have the magic that made its predecessors fun.

My favorite game in the series is Mario 64, so let's base our comparison on this game as the model.

Mario 64 has a very simple story and quite the empty world, pretty much stuff which are frowned upon in modern games, yet it was so successful. Bowser locked up ~ 115 stars in paintings (which actually are the stages), and you have to get into each painting (a total of 15) and get the stars in that level. Mario Galaxy had a similar premise too, except that you don't really walk and jump into the paintings, but navigate your spaceship to where the next stage is; doesn't make a difference.

Mario 64 has lots of powerups. A cap with mini wings that lets you soar the skies, a metal cap that makes you go metal (heavy and invincible) and an invisible cap which makes you go invisible. Mario Galaxy had even more power ups; a red star that literally gives you superman's flying ability, a ghostshroom that makes you become a ghost who can pass through walls, a beeshroom that makes you become a bee that can cling into honey, a springshroom that lets you be a bouncy spring, a rockshroom that makes you a rolling rock and much much more! Mario Galaxy clearly has the advantage here! Onwards!

Mario 64 stages usually have more than a single objective of reaching the power star from a difficult place. Sometimes you'd have to collect the total 8 red coins in the stage to get the star, other times you will have to win a race or beat a boss who has acquired the star's power. There were also times where you'd have to search for a lost baby or something and return it to its mother/owner for a star. Mario Galaxy has quite adopted the few first objectives, but failed miserably in having any objectives involving exploration. Now why is that? Was it just because they didn't want to do that? I believe it was mainly because they couldn't.

Mario Galaxy's level design is too linear for getting exploration into the formula. Seldom would you find yourself in a place where you get to choose either one of two paths. Mario 64 levels, on the other hand, were always flat and open. You could tackle the stage's stars in multiple orders if you like to, and most of the areas in the stage were amazing connected to teach other in a way. Once I've unlocked the cannon in the first course, I could just shoot myself on to the top of the king's hill. Or maybe just fly there with my newly acquired winged cap powerup. Every stage felt like a world by itself with its own unique setting. I believe this is what the Mario fans are looking for right now. Don't get me wrong, the last 2 installments on the WiiU and the 3DS are pretty fun, but just for some casual play before lunch.
 
I loved Galaxy 1 and 2, but I really hated 3D Land and World. Sunshine was fun for the most part, but it was really tedious at times. (That one pipe in the plaza leading to the 8 red coin insta-kill river...)
 
The Galaxy games are good. Mario 64 is still the best in my opinion though. Recently bought Mario 64 DS, and I can't wait till it ships!
 
The only mario games I actually care about are MK and 3D world/land. The rest don't interest me in the lightest, because they look boring.

Crap like mario party, mario tennis, mario soccer, mario olympics, mario dream team, paper mario....

The problem with most mario games today is that they lack originality. Sure, some of the games' previous instalments were totally original and kick-ass unique games, but that's where it all stops. Nintendo have a painful tendency to copy+paste most of their games with only a few changes, as opposed to completely making games from scratch. Splatoon is probably the newest first-party game we've ever had on the Wii U. Prior to splatoon we're just receiving sequels and spin-off games.

Years ago Nintendo would release whatever they wanted and it would probably sell. Sometimes it wouldn't *cough* gameboymicro *cough*. The Nintendo we know today isn't a risk-taker anymore. They play everything safe, and that'll be what leads to their ultimate downfall (or what already is).
 
Mario 64 just hasn't aged well at all imo

I'm sorry, but Sunshine and both Galaxy games are better than it

I'll agree that visually it hasn't aged well but honestly, I don't think any game from that era has. The gameplay is still solid though in my opinion.




To me the reason that newer Mario games feel like they're 'missing something' is because they're not really doing anything new or 'game changing'.

Galaxy kind of did something new with the whole 'gravity' thing but it didn't feel like such a unique thing 99% of the time. You where usually just running around tiny little planets which whilst I guess the way it was done does technically count as 'using gravity', I just really didn't feel like it was that much of a big deal.
It was a great game, don't get me wrong, but it just didn't 'pop out' at me. If anything, the best thing Mario Galaxy had going for it was that it is so far the only main series Mario game to have somewhat of a decent storyline. It's probably the one that I class as the last 'special' Super Mario game since it did at least feel different from previous installments.


What made the older games so special?
- Super Mario Bros - It was the first one, it could have ended there, but it also practically reinvented and set the standard for future gaming (at least 2D platformers)
- Super Mario Bros 2 - The Japanese release was just some harder levels from the first game. The American version was a reskin of an entirely different game, thus, feeling and playing entirely different by default. It also brought things that became staple Mario related things (such as Shy Guys).
- Super Mario Bros 3 - It brought the world map concept, as well as a ton of classic reoccurring things such as the Tanooki suit or the Koopalings
- Super Mario World - It brought us Yoshi (and if I'm not mistaken) the Special worlds, as well as setting a new standard for platformers with it's overall improved gameplay. Again, it also brought many series staples.
- Super Mario World 2 - Just look at it. This one is different'.
- Super Mario 64 - First 3D Mario game, so again, it could have stopped at that. It set the standard for 3D platformers though, which many haven't strayed far from even today.
- Super Mario Sunshine - It added FLUUD. This isn't exactly a series standard but it was far more than enough to set this game apart from anything before or after it with the way it changed platforming.
- Galaxy - An actual story of some sort, Rosalina and some not very important 'gravity' platforming.

Then it goes a bit downhill....

- Galaxy 2 - You have Yoshi...Again.
- New Super Mario Bros 3D world - New Powerups.
- New Super Mario Bros - New powerups
- New Super Mario Bros 2 - New powerups
- New Super Mario Bros Wii - New powerups
- New Super Mario Bros U - New powerups



They're good games and I enjoy them...But I'm not exactly going to remember them as fondly as the others. I can barely even remember which powerups first appeared in which of the newer games.
 
I'll agree that visually it hasn't aged well but honestly, I don't think any game from that era has. The gameplay is still solid though in my opinion.

actually I'm talking from a gameplay perspective

the level design just isn't all that great, and power-ups are kinda usually super limited in actual usefulness (granted all 3D Marios are kinda guilty of this, but it just seems worse here)

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Crap like... paper mario....

recent ones? sure

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oh, and the older N64 era and maybe GCN Mario Party games are actually p good too
 
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The Galaxy games are good. Mario 64 is still the best in my opinion though. Recently bought Mario 64 DS, and I can't wait till it ships!

64 DS was decently fun. I'd give it a 7 or 8 out of 10.

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Crap like... mario dream team....

Have you at least tried it? It's a really great RPG. The demo wasn't the best, but the game itself is great.
 
I played both games and both of them are great, but I liked mario 64 more because it has more interesting secrets, doesn't feel gimmicky or "trying too hard" in the least, and the fact that the stage themes really feel like they belong in the mushroom kingdom unlike galaxy levels which are kinda weird....
 
I played both games and both of them are great, but I liked mario 64 more because it has more interesting secrets, doesn't feel gimmicky or "trying too hard" in the least, and the fact that the stage themes really feel like they belong in the mushroom kingdom unlike galaxy levels which are kinda weird....

But aside from the intro and Galaxy 1's ending, the Galaxy games don't even take place in the Mushroom Kingdom.

64 DS was decently fun. I'd give it a 7 or 8 out of 10.

I do wonder what is even up with the button control placement for that game.

Its just so painfully unnatural feeling imo.
 
It all depends what you want to get in a game I suppose...

Mario Galaxy was more "restricted" than Mario 64. Where in Mario 64 you can just walk around freely and "find" stars, Mario Galaxy was more of a "Select a star from the main menu and the world is generated to fit this star" sort of game. Of course Mario 64 had its stars where you could only find them by selecting a certain mode, but it seemed to have less of this. Mario 64 also had far less obvious level setup, which ties into the suggestion that Galaxy is linear because Galaxy levels are generally clearly defined from start to finish.

I think I prefer how Galaxy did it. Mario 64, because of the how open it was, made it very easy to get stuck/lost for a while trying to find the next star or area even. It was not as intuitive, but this is a common complaint against older games so perhaps it was just memory related. This is another point where recent games seem to be nicer to newer players in that they are easier to navigate without having picked up a Mario game before.

As for Sunshine it was similar but I found myself getting lost far less. Could have been a different approach to level design or just chance I don't know.

Also I'm sorry but anyone saying Paper Mario is bad who hasn't played the namesake and sequel (original or 1000-Year Door) needs to actually play it (Sticker Star and Super Paper Mario do not represent the series as well at all). I guess the Paper Mario games (especially 1000-Year Door admittedly) also had the same problem of not always being clear what you had to do next. I have nothing wrong with exploring to find what to do next but I don't like to be forced into hours of mindless wandering for no benefit.
 
tbh I'll definitely agree that the Galaxy games are far more linear compared to 64, but if we're talking open exploration, I feel Sunshine just succeeded on that far more.


You mentioned how 64 is very flat and open, which I feel is exactly the core problem in its level design. Sure, you can reach destinations in multiple ways, but for the most part it was all very samey.

Plus generally flat 3D levels are just kinda boring as all ****.
 
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Mario Galaxy was more "restricted" than Mario 64. Where in Mario 64 you can just walk around freely and "find" stars, Mario Galaxy was more of a "Select a star from the main menu and the world is generated to fit this star" sort of game. Of course Mario 64 had its stars where you could only find them by selecting a certain mode, but it seemed to have less of this. Mario 64 also had far less obvious level setup, which ties into the suggestion that Galaxy is linear because Galaxy levels are generally clearly defined from start to finish.
It wasn't always that you had to specify the star in order to be able to reach it. Countless are the times I got a star when I wasn't supposed to get it.


I think I prefer how Galaxy did it. Mario 64, because of the how open it was, made it very easy to get stuck/lost for a while trying to find the next star or area even. It was not as intuitive, but this is a common complaint against older games so perhaps it was just memory related. This is another point where recent games seem to be nicer to newer players in that they are easier to navigate without having picked up a Mario game before.
Don't you think getting lost is fun? This kind of encourages exploring per se, which is good a thing, unlike a game where you just have to cross a linear path from point A to point B.



Also I'm sorry but anyone saying Paper Mario is bad who hasn't played the namesake and sequel (original or 1000-Year Door) needs to actually play it (Sticker Star and Super Paper Mario do not represent the series as well at all). I guess the Paper Mario games (especially 1000-Year Door admittedly) also had the same problem of not always being clear what you had to do next. I have nothing wrong with exploring to find what to do next but I don't like to be forced into hours of mindless wandering for no benefit.

Wandering off is quite the good thing in the Paper mario games, or even in general. I think it has come to different tastes in this stage of the discussion.


You mentioned how 64 is very flat and open, which I feel is exactly the core problem in its level design. Sure, you can reach destinations in multiple ways, but for the most part it was all very samey.
Are you sure? I've recently started playing Mario64 DS, and I can confirm this isn't the case at all. With course 2 for instance, I could get to the top of the fortress either by the cannon, the owl or climbing normally. The fire course also was very fun and had multiple routes to traverse through the stage.
 
I like Mario Sunshine a lot, but I can't beat it
*sad trombone*

I've always like Luigi's Mansion the best lol

I want more Paper Mario. I love those games.
 
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64 DS was decently fun. I'd give it a 7 or 8 out of 10.

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Have you at least tried it? It's a really great RPG. The demo wasn't the best, but the game itself is great.

I tried Paper Mario on the Wii and I hated it. It literally reminded me of one of those free to play fighting games like pokeninja
 
Super Paper Mario did try something new, but somewhat killed the main point of the series by eliminating the turn based RPG element. Sticker Star returned to turn based, but again failed with its dull story and its missing leveling up system. Paper Mario also have always been a console game, I don't know why Nintendo would get its new one on its handheld. The handhelds usually get a Mario and Luigi RPG, and the home consoles should get the Paper Mario. I really hope they'd start a new one aimed at the WiiU, making use of its new graphics power, and its tablet for drawing and these timed action moves that strengthen your attacks.
 
Hmm. I've played four Mario games, (not including any Mario Kart, Mario Party, or Luigi games) Super Mario World, Dr. Mario, Sunshine, and New Super Mario Bros U... oh, also the one where they turn into cats.

I'll start off saying I'm not a fan of Mario. We're fed his image and advertising way too much... Anyway, out of the games I listed, Sunshine was my favorite. I loved that game and logged many hours on it trying to figure out the puzzles, growing up. I can't say much about the others... I returned New SMBU and the cat one days within receiving it, thankfully I was just renting them. I honestly just didn't like Super Mario World. And Dr. Mario is essentially a reskin of Tetris, so I'm not sure that even counts...

Sunshine was my favorite because I loved the premise, I loved the characters, and I loved the world. Everything was so bright and cheery, and I really wanted to visit Delfino if it was actually possible. The surrounding areas and characters really intrigued me, and I got really attached to them. I also love to clean, so I got a lot of satisfaction from this game, lol. But I got to a point where... it didn't really matter if I saved Peach. I was working towards it, yes, but I was enjoying each of the puzzles as they came along, and getting excited when a new paint portal opened up.

Sunshine wasn't very linear, really. You could choose to do puzzles from any portal. Those puzzles had to be done in order, but that's just how the cookies crumble. I think this was a smart move -- if you got stuck on a level, you could try a different portal, instead of being stuck on the whole game. I think this really helped me out, especially when I was younger.
 
I would agree that Mario 64 was the best. They stepped up from what they had released on the SNES in every possible way. For a Mario game it was completely new and innovative. Now they just ctrl+c everything from the past games into their new ones. When they released New Super Mario Bros for the Wii it was fun to have the nostalgic 2d side-scroll back. But once was enough. Now they just keep coming back AGAIN AND AGAIN. Just because Mario can now turn into a squirrel instead of a raccoon doesn't make it anything special and I don't know why people even bother to play them, tbh.

I thought that 3D World/Land were alright, at least they brought back a 3D world to play in, but yet again they took SO many elements from the 2D side scroll games. It's like they thought if they took elements from the 3D games and morphed with the 2D games no one would notice and it would be something new and fun. It's not and it's still lazy.

Mario has lost all of it's innovation. It's a franchise that relies on the character's image and nostalgia to rake in $$. Classic Mario games will always be my favorite games of all time, but they REALLY need to move forward and make new games that people will consider classics.
 
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As a former Mario fanatic, I offer to you, the opposite opinion!:

Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros. 3 were so great because they were well polished, intricate, well scored, and very imaginative games back in an era of either really ****ty original games or games just based on like fables or fairy tales. But, even when I was a child I didn't like Super Mario 64 all that much. It really just really wasn't that fun imo. IMHO Mario really got great in the 21st century. The Mario & Luigi games were fantastic. The gameplay and everything. Although Bowser's inside story was easily the weakest of the four. Super Mario Sunshine was great because I think it had a better learning curve for the younger audience, there was a new villain, Shadow Mario, who turned out to be Bowser's only son. (The koopalings aren't his kids). The whole idea of FLUDD was ingenious. Except for making him an actual character. Like who cares that he died at the end? The Mario Galaxies were great because of the massive variety and the somber story of Rosalina. Galaxy 2 was even better because you could play as Luigi, who was better to control. Plus the ending for number 2 was really cool. And lastly, Paper Mario. Thousand Year Door was a borderline epic story. It was on a massive scale involving a much bigger collaboration of characters than most Mario games feature. And I actually loved Super Paper Mario. Sure it strayed from the rpg mechanics but oh well. The story was so strangely dark for a Mario game, it was exhilarating. The threat of the end of the world which unites Mario with Bowser? and the whole thing with the Chaos and Pure hearts was really enjoyable. Plus the whole thing with Tippi/Timpani and Count Bleck/Blumiere was cliche, sure but very well executed.

New super mario bros and 3d world dont count as they are shameless cash grabs. I think you guys should really give Mario another chance.
 
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