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I'm pretty sad that this is still an issue that hasn't been resolved. I've been out of the loop (because I simply chose to ignore 'the latest gaming issue') for about 2 months when I last saw anything about it, only to be reinterested now that one of my more favorite and reputable game journalists 'Jim Sterling' has left his job due to all of this crap.
I just don't understand the debate at all. These things shouldn't be issues in the first place.
For a start the harassment. I'm not even going to waste my time talking about it. The fact that there are even debates about harassment blows my friggin' mind.
This led into an entirely different debate of "woman using sex for things". Is that true? I dunno and I don't rightly care whether or not she did as what she traded for a review isn't the issue. The fact that a person has 'supposedly' traded for good reviews is a different issue entirely, relating to paying people off for things like a decent review. At that point, we're basically being sold lies, and that ain't cool.
It doesn't help with companies like Ubisoft practically making this sort of crap happen with the way they 'censor reviews', remove unfavorable reviews and give a vast number of popular youtubers a sum of money to say only good things about their latest overhyped broken release.
A BIG issue here, review scores these days are just bulls**t. An 8/10 is considered 'bad' these days, with a lot of reviewers getting hate for something as high as a 9/10. This practically forces publishers/developers to make these 'bad decisions' because if their game get's an 8 or lower, there's a darn good chance that game is going to flop since 8/10 is the equivalent of having somebody smear their feces in your face. When you have to live up to things like that, I'm not surprised if devs are paying off reviewers.
Is the 'female representation in videogames' thing part of GamerGate? I think that's largely BS as well.
With all the polls that show almost as many women play video games as men, it does seem like there's a lack of representation. When we get the specific details of WHAT games each gender are playing, I'm really not surprised that a lot of games still have a boring male grizzled war vet as the main character.
I DO think that games should be putting forward a lot more female representation in games though unless the story specifically demands a male lead (God of War would be odd if Kratos was female...As would the opposite, Tomb Raider with Larry Croft). Regardless of whether or not just as many females are playing these games as there are males, there are still points:
- The women that DO play these games could very easily feel isolated with the games these days. I can count the amount of recent games with a female lead/choice of gender one hand. The amount of 'representation' won't rise if there aren't games everybody can relate to.
- A surprising amount of men 'prefer' playing as a female character. This is for many reasons. Either the gender a guy 'relates' to, the female characters typically having a 'different' set of stats (usually agile), the female animations being more visually appealing, easier to identify with a character who is nothing like you, or simply that they like watching their butt wiggle.
The sad thing is, way too much of this can be blamed on the gamers themselves (not that they'll ever admit it)
- There's a reason that 8/10 is the same as a 'bad game', and it's largely the gamers fault. (as well as reviewers throwing out 8's+9's/10 like they're going out of fashion)
- There's a reason companies keep putting out game after game of crap. It's because we keep buying it. (really, vote with your wallets, you idiots)
- There's a reason women aren't treated that great, and it largely has to do with an industry full of men trying to keep their little hobby 'exclusive' and thinking that women are 'lesser beings' only capable of cooking and acting as a meat shield whilst you carry the flag.
I'm quite sure little of this really applies to me though as I've largely ignored the 'games journalism' world for a damn long time as I've not trusted a 'professional review' or been absorbed into artificial hype in years. I largely make decisions based on user reviews these days, mostly on Amazon, the 3 star reviews since they tend to tell you both the good and the bad about a game. It's been way more trustworthy than 'real' reviews have with a lot less drama.
I still have one or two 'professional' sources I trust (as said, Mr.Sterling) but these are coming so few and far between these days...
Game Journalism can crash and burn for all I care. It seems to be going that way.
I just don't understand the debate at all. These things shouldn't be issues in the first place.
For a start the harassment. I'm not even going to waste my time talking about it. The fact that there are even debates about harassment blows my friggin' mind.
This led into an entirely different debate of "woman using sex for things". Is that true? I dunno and I don't rightly care whether or not she did as what she traded for a review isn't the issue. The fact that a person has 'supposedly' traded for good reviews is a different issue entirely, relating to paying people off for things like a decent review. At that point, we're basically being sold lies, and that ain't cool.
It doesn't help with companies like Ubisoft practically making this sort of crap happen with the way they 'censor reviews', remove unfavorable reviews and give a vast number of popular youtubers a sum of money to say only good things about their latest overhyped broken release.
A BIG issue here, review scores these days are just bulls**t. An 8/10 is considered 'bad' these days, with a lot of reviewers getting hate for something as high as a 9/10. This practically forces publishers/developers to make these 'bad decisions' because if their game get's an 8 or lower, there's a darn good chance that game is going to flop since 8/10 is the equivalent of having somebody smear their feces in your face. When you have to live up to things like that, I'm not surprised if devs are paying off reviewers.
Is the 'female representation in videogames' thing part of GamerGate? I think that's largely BS as well.
With all the polls that show almost as many women play video games as men, it does seem like there's a lack of representation. When we get the specific details of WHAT games each gender are playing, I'm really not surprised that a lot of games still have a boring male grizzled war vet as the main character.
I DO think that games should be putting forward a lot more female representation in games though unless the story specifically demands a male lead (God of War would be odd if Kratos was female...As would the opposite, Tomb Raider with Larry Croft). Regardless of whether or not just as many females are playing these games as there are males, there are still points:
- The women that DO play these games could very easily feel isolated with the games these days. I can count the amount of recent games with a female lead/choice of gender one hand. The amount of 'representation' won't rise if there aren't games everybody can relate to.
- A surprising amount of men 'prefer' playing as a female character. This is for many reasons. Either the gender a guy 'relates' to, the female characters typically having a 'different' set of stats (usually agile), the female animations being more visually appealing, easier to identify with a character who is nothing like you, or simply that they like watching their butt wiggle.
The sad thing is, way too much of this can be blamed on the gamers themselves (not that they'll ever admit it)
- There's a reason that 8/10 is the same as a 'bad game', and it's largely the gamers fault. (as well as reviewers throwing out 8's+9's/10 like they're going out of fashion)
- There's a reason companies keep putting out game after game of crap. It's because we keep buying it. (really, vote with your wallets, you idiots)
- There's a reason women aren't treated that great, and it largely has to do with an industry full of men trying to keep their little hobby 'exclusive' and thinking that women are 'lesser beings' only capable of cooking and acting as a meat shield whilst you carry the flag.
I'm quite sure little of this really applies to me though as I've largely ignored the 'games journalism' world for a damn long time as I've not trusted a 'professional review' or been absorbed into artificial hype in years. I largely make decisions based on user reviews these days, mostly on Amazon, the 3 star reviews since they tend to tell you both the good and the bad about a game. It's been way more trustworthy than 'real' reviews have with a lot less drama.
I still have one or two 'professional' sources I trust (as said, Mr.Sterling) but these are coming so few and far between these days...
Game Journalism can crash and burn for all I care. It seems to be going that way.
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literal ****ing garbage
I know this is probably heading a wee bit off-topic, but one of the things that bothers me the most about that in particular is that the same dudes who want "a girlfriend/wife that shares their hobbies/interests" -- in this case, video games -- are often the VERY SAME GUYS who treat us like **** the moment we enter a multiplayer game.
srsly. you can't have it both ways. ?\_(ツ)_/?
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eh, the -gate suffix has been around for decades...
oath2order
#Porygon2024
It was originally about Zoe Quinn sleeping with reviewers and other gaming industry people to help out her game.
Her supporters and social justice warriors have warped it into the typical "females aren't represented" thing.
Her supporters and social justice warriors have warped it into the typical "females aren't represented" thing.
i know but why are all the game related "movements" using it now be more creative
i think we should change all game movements to gayme who agrees
anyway when does this die . no one likes ign or gamespot reviews anyway or kotaku so no one believed in them in the first place. not to mention the locked reviews for AC unity sucks, so that doesnt help reviews either.
whatever, i dont use professional gaming journalism sites to buy games anyway. i like user reviews the best, or watching a LP.
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Celestefey
どうでもいい
Well this is true though, the fact that women are under-represented in videogames yet 50% of people who play videogames are female. I always enjoy playing as female characters because I feel I can get a closer connection to the character and really identify with them. Of course, if you're a male and always play as male characters maybe you can't appreciate it so much, but I always enjoy being able to play as a female in a game, hence why I love Nintendo because they genuinely are trying to throw more female characters into the mix, like in Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros. Now I have a wide choice of female characters I can play as! I don't see why you make it seem like a bad thing, though, although maybe I've misinterpreted what you've said.
this 50% of gamers being women, where does this stat come from? does it include ppl who play those filthy casual facebook/mobile games?
Celestefey
どうでもいい
Here are the stats. It's ALMOST a 50/50 ratio, I just made an approximation. And no it doesn't include them, they're apps. So yeah, it's quite shocking actually. Like someone said earlier on "it's like men are trying to make videogames exclusive to them", when it really isn't an exclusive thing at all. Everyone and anyone can enjoy them. I mean, I quite like that such diverse groups of people can all share one thing in common and unite over one thing but... there you go.
oath2order
#Porygon2024
Yeah, you definitely misinterpreted. What I was saying was that the whole controversy was about one thing and it somehow got warped into another debate, taking away from the original issue.
All scandals use -gate. Think of Bendgate, which was about the iPhone 6 supposedly bending in people's pockets. "Bendgate" is easier to say than "the iPhone 6 bending scandal".
And I agree. There used to be a time that professional reviews mattered to me, but paid reviews have been around for nearly a decade now. There were rumors of it beforehand, but when Jeff Gerstmann got fired from GameSpot in 2007 for scoring Kane & Lynch badly it was pretty much confirmed.
While that's how it started, it blew up after an independent investigative journalist found a mailing list proving that these so-called journalists from various sites will talk behind the screens, agree on what they should and should not talk about. Apart from that, it also showed the hypocrisy of these SJWs, in that they will criticize any form of "sexist speech" even if it's done jokingly, yet behind the scenes they would pretty much say the exact same things. Anyone that doubted their course of action was immediately put to trial by the group. It's corrupt, to say the least.
It's also why I despise people linking to sites like Kotaku, Polygon, Giant Bomb and whatnot. They're people that throw around trash simply because they want walking simulators with **** stories like Gone Home to be the future of gaming. They're not journalists, they're activists.
Even if it isn't, people should stand up against it. Leaving it alone will just make sure it spreads even more than it already has. I want to go back to a time where reviews aren't owned by the companies that make these games, where a person reviewing a game gives a fair assessment and is able to call a game **** if it's ****. With how bad the game industry has become ever since the release of the 360 and PS3, having these people around would certainly help to improve the quality of games. None of this day one patch bull****, where all the major bugs are taken out. Bring back the good old days of making sure a product is good before you release it.
Tao brought up some good points. People keep buying this crap, so companies can keep selling it to us. Of course, some people are going to buy them before we hear if it has this or that problem, but if it's a broken game then the sales should basically stop there until it's fixed. The movement against these reviewers was going strong for a while but has died down now. It's plain sad.
Some of these people will also claim that gamers will set back gaming 10 years if they keep going like this. In that case, let's keep going so we can go back to the golden age, during which games that were released were given a fair assessment, and games that got rave reviews were actually incredible. The entire PS2 era was great because of games like Shadow of the Colossus, Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Okami... The list goes on, and not only for the PS2.
Then you look at the libraries of previous systems and you've got your Mass Effect, Dead Space, Dead Rising, etc. All franchises that started off good, but the later installments were broken, glitchy pieces of ****.
Then you hear that Anita Sarkeesian was hired to work on Mirror's Edge 2, probably one of the most incredible games of the previous generation. But the gameplay was too hard for her, there were too many buttons. So now we've got to make it more accessible, and in her mind "accessible" means GTA gameplay. Mirror's Edge 2 is just going to be GTA with a woman.
**** SJWs.
casual gamers innit
I don't like getting into this sort of thing and that this whole Gamergate issue is still just one big mess, and I really hope it gets resolved soon. This whole mess became more apparent because of a certain individual stepping on an existing land mine that got intentionally tangled with certain feminist people such as Anita... It's bad either way. Long post below...
This existing land mine is being where AAA game companies and developers are able to pay or bribe review/gaming websites to rate their games and products higher than it really should for positive advertising. I personally don't really care about reviews nowadays, but I take it that most of people are sick and annoyed with it. I'm not mentioning any names, but let's just say that this certain individual got into a relationship with several people who are in the gaming/journalism industry, which resulted in the game the person produced to gain some publicity and to be greenlighted on Steam - and they didn't really judge the game either. This is what sparked the land mine to blow up. You can read up more about it and do your own research if you're curious.
Basically, this whole Gamergate thing is more about a consumer revolt dealing with gaming journalism and ethics (like the incident above) than it is dealing about women in video games. It was never about fighting or discouraging women from playing games or from developing them. These people trying to fight against Gamergate are the people using feminism as a front because they got caught red handed with what they're doing. They are using feminism/women tropes as a way to spin and deflect the blame on Gamergate and the people who don't agree with them. These lunatics rage like a kid throwing a temper tantram.
Though I am pretty much for Gamergate as I agree with most of their ideology in wanting honesty and integrity when it comes to gaming news and stuff, I am not completely obsessed with it. I don't agree with some of their actions either. However, on the other hand it's obvious the people using feminism as a way to defend themselves are in the wrong here when it's about ethics. There are also these extreme feminist that take things way to far... and women trying to fight for 'equality' in video games is kind of silly and are pretty much using that to get whatever they want. Such as this; beware of the image in the link. Do not click it if you're sensitive to blood... but hover over link and see the full text before clicking, should be self-explanatory:
https://www.change.org/p/target-wit...yers-to-commit-sexual-violence-and-kill-women
It's silly, but makes me facepalm so hard as how and why these things are happening the way they do. I'm not into games like GTA, but I do know what they are about and I won't put down people that do enjoy playing those games. These anti-Gamergate/feminists/etc have gone off the rails, and are taking things way out of context to push their own agendas onto other people. They are pretty much trying to pull certain games off the shelves from stores just to 'win' something, and make the opposing side cry for being a 'gamer'...
It'd be unfair for me to lump those kind of people all into one big feminism group, so I apologize if I offended you if you aren't one of those crazy lunatics. I don't say feminism is a bad thing when used to fight for something real and is legitimate. I would gladly side with them to fight for equality and rights in the real world. But when it comes to fiction and video games, it's just crazy. It's this kind of thing that makes me worry about future game releases. This kind of thing restricts good creativity in making video games because the developers will worry about stepping on 'sensitive' toes like this.
Somewhat related: http://i.imgur.com/xgmFJ2h.jpg
This existing land mine is being where AAA game companies and developers are able to pay or bribe review/gaming websites to rate their games and products higher than it really should for positive advertising. I personally don't really care about reviews nowadays, but I take it that most of people are sick and annoyed with it. I'm not mentioning any names, but let's just say that this certain individual got into a relationship with several people who are in the gaming/journalism industry, which resulted in the game the person produced to gain some publicity and to be greenlighted on Steam - and they didn't really judge the game either. This is what sparked the land mine to blow up. You can read up more about it and do your own research if you're curious.
Basically, this whole Gamergate thing is more about a consumer revolt dealing with gaming journalism and ethics (like the incident above) than it is dealing about women in video games. It was never about fighting or discouraging women from playing games or from developing them. These people trying to fight against Gamergate are the people using feminism as a front because they got caught red handed with what they're doing. They are using feminism/women tropes as a way to spin and deflect the blame on Gamergate and the people who don't agree with them. These lunatics rage like a kid throwing a temper tantram.
Though I am pretty much for Gamergate as I agree with most of their ideology in wanting honesty and integrity when it comes to gaming news and stuff, I am not completely obsessed with it. I don't agree with some of their actions either. However, on the other hand it's obvious the people using feminism as a way to defend themselves are in the wrong here when it's about ethics. There are also these extreme feminist that take things way to far... and women trying to fight for 'equality' in video games is kind of silly and are pretty much using that to get whatever they want. Such as this; beware of the image in the link. Do not click it if you're sensitive to blood... but hover over link and see the full text before clicking, should be self-explanatory:
https://www.change.org/p/target-wit...yers-to-commit-sexual-violence-and-kill-women
It's silly, but makes me facepalm so hard as how and why these things are happening the way they do. I'm not into games like GTA, but I do know what they are about and I won't put down people that do enjoy playing those games. These anti-Gamergate/feminists/etc have gone off the rails, and are taking things way out of context to push their own agendas onto other people. They are pretty much trying to pull certain games off the shelves from stores just to 'win' something, and make the opposing side cry for being a 'gamer'...
It'd be unfair for me to lump those kind of people all into one big feminism group, so I apologize if I offended you if you aren't one of those crazy lunatics. I don't say feminism is a bad thing when used to fight for something real and is legitimate. I would gladly side with them to fight for equality and rights in the real world. But when it comes to fiction and video games, it's just crazy. It's this kind of thing that makes me worry about future game releases. This kind of thing restricts good creativity in making video games because the developers will worry about stepping on 'sensitive' toes like this.
Somewhat related: http://i.imgur.com/xgmFJ2h.jpg
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SuperVandal
got a blank space bb
i'm sorry but please educate yourself on what a feminist is and the ideologies behind the movement before you make presumptuous opinions on the behaviors of a small minute minority.
in addition, by saying this entire debacle is primarily concerned with one issue over the other suggests the other issue isn't an issue at all. it is, and by trying to discredit the problem you're not helping matters at all. this is the exact reason why people continuously bring up the relationship between women and video game community. it is a completely vile and horrendous environment, and when people bring up the legitimate concerns surrounding this issue it's always swept under the rug. there is a lot to be said about the reaction of people from this entire event, and truth be told it's very ignorant to ignore such concerns simply because you think one issue takes precedence over the other.
for the record, this post was not directed towards you but to everybody who has voiced similar thoughts.
I do know what feminist is about, originally. When it used to stand for equal rights and fair treatment - feminism didn't mean only about women either. That is what I respect. I hate what it's now expanding and spreading into, and it's not involving just video games either. It's the people that uses feminism (it's that what they call themselves, what else can you call them?) in a selfish way that gives it such a bad name nowadays. It's these particular people using 'feminism' as a means for women to gain superiority and a way to gain publicity on over trivial issues. This is what I meant in my previous post, sorry if I wasn't clear. Even their old fellow people disagree with what they're doing too.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a...cussing-the-real-war-on-women/article/2556419
I'm pretty sure you heard the news too... About the scientist landing a probe on a comet not too long ago. Those certain feminists/SJWs rather pick and start drama about the guy's shirt than the big achievement itself. And the guy's shirt was apparently given to him by his girlfriend. Either way, that doesn't sound right to me... Does it sound okay to you?
Anyway, I'd like to settle on reason and compromise and let the whole mess get resolved, really. The people against Gamergate are rather hostile though. They just want to fight; there are multiple instances of them mailing syringes to people's houses telling them to kill themselves and resorting to calling every 'gamer' as a white male, hating them all of them as a whole even if they are their own reader/(ex)fanbase. They're using whatever they can, including this feminism card - and there are other people trying to profit and gain publicity out of it. That too tells me an impression of something. You can Google around for articles about it.
Video games would be an expressive art form where creators and developers can create ideas for a world without limit where people can just get lost or have fun, away from the real world for some time such as Animal Crossing. I hope I'm not the only one, but I personally don't like having outside real world politics, religious, morals, or whatever else being forced onto the developers influencing how they create games or stop them from doing it. There are plenty of games for anyone and comes in a variety of genres that can probably suit anyone's taste if they search hard enough. Just because they don't like a certain game because how it's presented and/or made (such as how women/tropes/etc are being portrayed in video games as an example), shouldn't be a good reason to get it pulled it off the shelves, discourage people from playing it, much less hate the entire video game hobby culture because just because they don't like it. They can either try making their own games, or start a community with common interests and form something entirely new. I read around, there are free organizations or game jams that people can join that helps people pitch their game ideas into being made, as well as a particular game jam encouraging aspiring female developers to get into the gaming industry.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a...cussing-the-real-war-on-women/article/2556419
I'm pretty sure you heard the news too... About the scientist landing a probe on a comet not too long ago. Those certain feminists/SJWs rather pick and start drama about the guy's shirt than the big achievement itself. And the guy's shirt was apparently given to him by his girlfriend. Either way, that doesn't sound right to me... Does it sound okay to you?
Anyway, I'd like to settle on reason and compromise and let the whole mess get resolved, really. The people against Gamergate are rather hostile though. They just want to fight; there are multiple instances of them mailing syringes to people's houses telling them to kill themselves and resorting to calling every 'gamer' as a white male, hating them all of them as a whole even if they are their own reader/(ex)fanbase. They're using whatever they can, including this feminism card - and there are other people trying to profit and gain publicity out of it. That too tells me an impression of something. You can Google around for articles about it.
Video games would be an expressive art form where creators and developers can create ideas for a world without limit where people can just get lost or have fun, away from the real world for some time such as Animal Crossing. I hope I'm not the only one, but I personally don't like having outside real world politics, religious, morals, or whatever else being forced onto the developers influencing how they create games or stop them from doing it. There are plenty of games for anyone and comes in a variety of genres that can probably suit anyone's taste if they search hard enough. Just because they don't like a certain game because how it's presented and/or made (such as how women/tropes/etc are being portrayed in video games as an example), shouldn't be a good reason to get it pulled it off the shelves, discourage people from playing it, much less hate the entire video game hobby culture because just because they don't like it. They can either try making their own games, or start a community with common interests and form something entirely new. I read around, there are free organizations or game jams that people can join that helps people pitch their game ideas into being made, as well as a particular game jam encouraging aspiring female developers to get into the gaming industry.
way to use the no true scotsman fallacy
The movement has brought up a lot of proof of the corruption among gaming "journalists". I don't see how that's nonsense. If these people had any integrity they would not be bribed or bring their own agendas into their work, yet they do. A lot of them don't even know what being a journalist is.
American news agencies are pretty much owned by political parties, but I doubt people are happy about that either.
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