Gender in Video Games

So, variation for the sake of having unique and different experiences is a bad thing?



You know how there are different kinds of music? I mean that. It was just an example. Like how a game like how a game like FTL can have an electronic soundtrack while a final fantasy game might have an orchestrated soundtrack. a A lot of games do have similar soundtracks, and a lot of different. I was just using it as an example of things I like to be varied in games. I... the second half of this doesn't even make sense. I'm talking about games in general. I like games that do things different. Games like Okami and Killer 7 for unique art style. Games like Persona 3 and 4 for a unique mix of gameplay, and unique characters. And no, not literally every game is different. There are endless amounts of generic shooters and RPGs and action games that are all very similar. I can't go play a game that's different if one doesn't exist.



Well I didn't actually read it because I'm currently playing the Metal Gear Solid series, and he had it spoiler tagged. I would like to avoid spoilers.



I mentioned Kanji from persona 4. Being gay (or bi, or just confused, its not very clear) is a part of his character. Yes, they address it. But, he's not just the gay character. There's so much more to him than that, that once that part of the story is resolved it isn't brought up even during his social link. It's an important part of him, but not the most important part. That's the kind of character I like. Also see Cortez in mass effect 3. As for female characters, Samus is a good example (not counting Other M. I like to pretend that game doesn't exist). She's a female character, but it's not the most important part of her. Again, I'm not saying that EVERY game has to have a female transgender black gay jewish main character.



Again, what is the problem with wanting more minority characters in games? There simply aren't that many. ****, this isn't something that I spend hours every day protesting about, or sending letters in to devs, or anything like that. Seriously, if you're going to keep calling me that I'm just going to stop responding. I don't want an argument, I want a discussion. Discuss my points, not me.



I literally listed the games with straight characters. You said you wanted it. The point was that you said there weren't many games with them, and I was just showing you them. That's it.



I'm sure that's true. And it sucks. It really shouldn't be like that. It's the same deal with endless millitary FPS games. Guess I'll have to rely on indie devs more often now.

What the **** am I doing with my life.

Edit: Yes yes yes exactly what Zr said.

Variation for the sake of different experiences is not a bad thing. Variation just for the sake of variation is a bad thing. Basically, Zr's post.

How does it not make sense? You want to play something different than a shooter? Play something that isn't a shooter. How does that not make sense?

Indie devs are the way to go. I'll agree there too.

What the **** am I doing with my life.
I agree. What the **** am I doing with my life. And I'm saying this applies to me, I'm not critiquing you.
 
Variation for the sake of different experiences is not a bad thing. Variation just for the sake of variation is a bad thing. Basically, Zr's post.

How does it not make sense? You want to play something different than a shooter? Play something that isn't a shooter. How does that not make sense?

Indie devs are the way to go. I'll agree there too.


I agree. What the **** am I doing with my life. And I'm saying this applies to me, I'm not critiquing you.

That's half of what I've been saying. Variation for different experiences is exactly what I want. The other half is that by doing this, games will also be more inclusive/diverse which is also a good thing. Everyone wins (other than the game companies apparently).

I mean with the different games thing, if the game doesn't really exist, I can't play it. Like I really want to play some kind of spaceship RPG or strategy game or something like that. I know about Eve, but I mean something single player. There aren't many of those games (FTL is the only recent one I can think of). If I want to play a game with a gay main character, I can't because they don't really exist.
 
I'm a guy and I've played as both. In games like Animal Crossing, I've always played as a guy. In MMOs if the game has really limited customization options and requires a 2nd char if you want to play a different class or something the first one will be a guy and the 2nd one will probably be a girl because there would probably only be like one hair/face option and all my male chars would end up looking the same and that bugs me for whatever reason. If its a game like monster hunter that i'll be putting hundreds of hours into and most likely be choosing the same armor sets every play through because of stats/skill effects, I'll pick a guy the first time, then pick a girl the 2nd time and switch weapon types so it feels more like 2 separate play throughs instead of one long game. Just depends on the person I guess, whether they treat their characters as representations of themselves, or they like the way they look, or it could be just a little dude that runs around and beats stuff up, or fishes, or plays golf, etc. Not sure if that made any sense, but that's my take on it I suppose xD.
 
In games if I have the choice I always play female but if I don't have the choice I really don't mind, I don't understand why people get uppity. I mean I know loads of guys that have played for example, portal Chell is a girl and it is important to the story that you play Chell hence why there is no other options. I don't think people realize that sometimes one character is needed for the story like The Walking Dead, you start of as Lee, when I began I was like "I'M PLAYING A CRIMINAL?" but I later realized that it told a great story ^.^ I think there should be games that have more gay characters as this shows diversity but also you can have a bit of fun with it ^.^ I have found myself getting bored of the straight relationship when I play Sims so I make same sex couples, honestly its much more fun as it is not my usual seeing as I'm straight :) but that's my thoughts, feel free to disregard anything I say...
 
As a female I always prefer playing a female character. As far as what anyone else does, my response is this: do your thing. :cool:
 
I always go for male because I'm a guy. If it's possible to make more characters I sometimes make a female though and I dont mind guys playing as females haha I know lots of girls playing as guys too =p
 
The thing we all seem to be forgetting is that the trope of the hero rescuing the damsel in distress is almost as old as time. It's a fairy tale ending. The bad guy kidnaps the guy, the girl waits for the hero, and the hero comes to rescue the damsel. That's the clich? in so many games. Why? Because it works. Because it sells. Let's look at the character of Princess Peach here for a second. She started out as the damsel in distress. Bowser would kidnap her and then take her away.

*Sidenote: Lately, it's literally just to drive the game along. It has no plot point. Mario could definitely have gone through Super Mario Galaxy without having to save the Princess. His goal would have been to stop Bowser. Peach didn't have to get kidnapped. There's my rabbit trail for the day.

However, throughout the years we see her evolve slightly into more of a heroine. Sure, lately she's seen more kidnapping than winning, but let's look at a few games here. Here's a terrible example, Super Princess Peach. The tides changed and she went looking for Mario (using her bipolar mood swings and umbrella as weapons...), but still, she kicked butt all the same. More recently, look at the Paper Mario series. Peach isn't as helpless as she is in the other games. In the first one, she actually has a "boss-fight" with Kamek. She spends the whole time trying to break out and help Mario. In TTYD, she tries her best to uncover various secrets surrounding her being kidnapped. In that game, she actually has a reason for being kidnapped—to resurrect the thousand year old demon. Prophecies and whatnot. However, throughout the game, she is still doing what she can. Finally, say what you will about Super Paper Mario, but in that game, Peach took a lead role. The fact that she was a playable character, she was effective against certain bosses, etc. Another plot-driven kidnapping, but she did more to help her case than hurt it. I don't know about Sticker Star since I am extremely reluctant to play it. The thing we're starting to see is women take more of a dominant role in stories. There will always be those directors or video game creators that think of women as sexual objects (Felicia in Darkstalkers or any other scantily clad girl dressed that way for the sake of being dressed that way). There's not much justification for that.

I think one of the best examples towards women stepping up into a lead role is Yoko Littner from Gurren Lagann. She starts out a badass and ends out a badass. There is only one or two scenes that I can think of where she plays the part "damsel in distress". The rest of the time, while at first she may appear to be the sex appeal of the show, she's also one of the plot-driving, gun-toting characters and the series would not have been what it is without her.

Let's be frank here: Sex sells. Put in a naked women here, a bikini-clad woman there, and you have a game most guys will buy just for that and the jiggle physics. Producers in both Hollywood and the video game industry know this, and will exploit it until it goes out of style... which it won't.

On the subject of gay characters and minorities in gaming and even TV shows, I think we can all agree that having those characters in just to have them in is wrong. What I mean is to have a gay character in the game/show just to act flamboyant and overemphasize the fact that he's gay. A show that plays on this whole thing nicely is Go On. Julie White plays a lesbian coping with the loss of her wife, but it's never awkward. It's never overemphasized. It flows nicely and it fits. More shows need to be like that. Hollywood just loves to stereotype.
 
Your list of straight characters. Yes, you have listed that. And? There's a reason that they don't make games with predominantly female heroes. Allow me to cite a Penny Arcade article covering a report about a study done by the EEDAR (Electronic Entertainment Design and Research). They found that out of 669 games, 24 had female protagonists. 300 gave the choice of a female lead. They then looked at three months of sales data for the game. As the man interviewed explained, "If you look at the first three months, with the smaller quantity of female-led games, they did not sell as well. The ones that were male-only sold better," The article also says that male-only heroes sell better, but the ones where you choose gender will get reviewed now. The article, by the way, can be found here.

You're partially misrepresenting this article through omission. The article writer posits that a potential and major reason that female-led games sell less is because less money is spent on marketing. From the article:

“Games with a female only protagonist, got half the spending of female optional, and only 40 percent of the marketing budget of male-led games. Less than that, actually,” Zatkin said. So is this a self-fulfilling prophecy? Do publishers send female-lead games out to die without proper support? “I think it might be, and I think in some cases, though this is a guess, that these games may be considered more niche, and you advertise niche games less,” Zatkin said. It’s also hard to draw many broad conclusions from this data. There are so few games with exclusively female heroes, and those few games are given such a small marketing budget, do we even know how well a large-budget, marketed game with a female hero would perform?

I believe publishers think games with female protagonists can't sell well, but, as the article says, the current data isn't sufficient to reach a real conclusion here. Did Portal sell less well because both the main character and the main antagonist are women? Good games sell.

I think that the point Furry Sparks is making (and please correct me if I'm wrong, Furry Sparks) is that "variation" makes for more interesting gaming experiences. You can debate this, but it's a pretty subjective point. I know for me having a more diverse set of characters makes for a much more fulfilling experience. It's much more fun to take the lives of people of different ages, genders, skin colors, sexual orientations, etc. -- because those differences have effects on all of us, even if those effects are subtle -- and see what you can do with that in a game. It also reflects the actual entertainment audience better. The largest demographic may be straight white males ages 18-24, but they're certainly not the only demographic.

It's also important to not take white men as the default. They have a race and gender just like everyone else. I'm trying to think of a simple way to explain this, because I was a gender studies minor in college and that comes with a lot of academic jargon. Basically, think of a cutout or silhouette of a person, like the type you might see as the old default profile picture on facebook. Most people would assume that's a man, and most people would probably also assume that's a white man. That's partially because we see so many white men in our entertainment, so our brain is sort of "trained" to see white men as normal. Anything else, like the addition of a dress, is something that marks or changes the default. Because of the dress, we then see a woman. But we had to change the default to get there. The basic idea is that we shouldn't think of white men as the default (look at the world population -- they're not!) but as simply another option for characters.

I am not -- and I don't think anyone else is either -- calling for the end of white male protagonists or anything. But I would definitely like to see more variety, and I can't see any real problem with that. What do we stand to lose from a game with a black protagonist, a gay protagonist, etc.? I'm really curious about any answers to this. I don't feel like potential loss of profits is a secure argument, because not many people have really tried. Heck, The Walking Dead made an astounding amount of money for being such a niche genre, and the cast of that game is super diverse. I barely ever hear a gamer or a game critic say they didn't like that game.

A final bit that's more on topic: Play as any gender you want! If there's anything I've learned in life, it's that there will always be someone around to question your choices. There's nothing wrong with making your avatar however you like, so go for it.
 
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I always play as a male, just so I can get behind who I'm playing as in a "what if I were in the game?" sense.
 
Honestly, I really don't care if I'm playing as a male or a female or a robot or a monkey or a dog or an alien or anything else. As long as the game is fun, that's all that matters to me. I don't need a human or matching gender to be able to identify with a character.

When a game has a character you can create, I choose a male about 50% of the time and a female about 50% of the time. Just depends on what I'm in the mood to play.

LOL I used to wonder about the reverse gender roles. So I asked my friends who did this. One of my male friends said "If I'm gonna have to stare at an ass all the time, it may as well be a cute female ass". One of my female friends who play nothing but male chars said "It was the only way I can get guys to stop trying to cyber with me all the time." So at that point I was like "damn they both make sense".

My husband is kinda like that. When he can choose a character, he always picks girls. But, to be honest, it's not partly because she's cute. He really likes characters that tend to be quick and light on their feet. Most fighting games, an example, tend to have girls as some of the fastest characters. So, in some cases, even if he wanted to be a guy he can't always be due to the stereotypes that are present in video games and his preferred play style.
 
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If you're drawn to women then some guys would want to see a female avatar during the 8-10 (or more, READ: Fallout 3) hour game. That's what I've come to learn from MMO players particularly. Perfectly natural. It's also no secret that females will choose a male avatar to avoid harassment & or odd social interactions. Again, there are more males gaming & guys can be jerks if a female is knowingly present in the gaming space.

I like to role play, so it's always selecting the guy in the game. But, sometimes I''m really curious of the story differences of titles like the Mass Effect or the Dragon Age series in which I might do a speed run as the female counterpart.
 
If you're drawn to women then some guys would want to see a female avatar during the 8-10 (or more, READ: Fallout 3) hour game. That's what I've come to learn from MMO players particularly. Perfectly natural. It's also no secret that females will choose a male avatar to avoid harassment & or odd social interactions. Again, there are more males gaming & guys can be jerks if a female is knowingly present in the gaming space.

I like to role play, so it's always selecting the guy in the game. But, sometimes I''m really curious of the story differences of titles like the Mass Effect or the Dragon Age series in which I might do a speed run as the female counterpart.

I have to back your statement here! When I played runescape I wished I'd picked male and a less female name than "fluffylauren" I was ridiculed from other members and had a few creeps following me around asking me to be their "online wife" haha freaks!
 
I have to back your statement here! When I played runescape I wished I'd picked male and a less female name than "fluffylauren..."

I have seen courage- but never at this level!!! :D Glad all's well now! *sips tea*
 
Everyone should be able to pick whatever character they want without being made fun of. It's just a game anyway. I agree with Ben, I find it so annoying when just because there's a girl in a game and mainly guys they always have to make a smartass comment or something and try to look all cool or whatever. Personally, I don't treat people any differently if they're male or female so I just don't get why people have to act a certain way if the opposite gender is in a game..
 
Video games are about creating an experience most enjoyable to the user playing the game. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the user wants to be a 20-foot-tall female cat when the real life person is a five-year-old male. The point of video games is to take you into a world you could not previously visit. Gender roles and gender norms should not apply in these circumstances, especially when roleplaying.
 
I play both genders in games when given an option, (I even alternate genders I play in table top RPGs because of the different experiences and often the varied abilities and options. and Contrary to what some may believe not all of us are into animated sex objects, just like I'm sure not all females drool over 'hot' looking animated guys. It's all about the diversity of the gaming experience. Playing the same tired thing over and over is too boring for some of us.
 
When I play a game most guys play it,I pick the usual girl character/avi.But then all the guys are asking me "Are you a guy?" to me.And I'm like ಠ_ಠ can you guys get more stupid,believe me when I say I'm a girl,there are other girls who play this game too...
 
I like to do multiple play-throughs of games, so I eventually end up playing as both genders (and countless species, in the case of games where you are given a choice). Take Skyrim for example. On my first play-through, I made a female Nord because I feel that I can connect with the game on a more personal level when I play as my sex. Granted, it's difficult to connect to a game that allows you to go around killing dragons, but people tend to naturally lean towards a gaming experience that is familiar, especially when starting a new game. On my second play-through, however, I made a male Khajit. The game was still spectacular, but I liked seeing the small differences that come from gender and racial differences.
 
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