Gender in Video Games

I wish there would be more games that forced you to play as someone other than a white straight attractive male. It's cool that there are games that let you pick and all, but the games where there's an actual female main character she's usually eye candy.
 
I wish there would be more games that forced you to play as someone other than a white straight attractive male. It's cool that there are games that let you pick and all, but the games where there's an actual female main character she's usually eye candy.

Just because they save the princess doesn't mean they're straight >.>
 
Just because they save the princess doesn't mean they're straight >.>

I could list tons and tons and tons of games with straight main characters, I don't want to, but I will if you don't believe me. Now, give me an example, one single example, of a mainstream game with a gay main character (games like fable or mass effect 3 or skyrim where you choose yourself don't count).
 
I could list tons and tons and tons of games with straight main characters, I don't want to, but I will if you don't believe me. Now, give me an example, one single example, of a mainstream game with a gay main character (games like fable or mass effect 3 or skyrim where you choose yourself don't count).

The sexuality of a bunch of characters is never actually confirmed. Link is never confirmed to have any signs of romance towards any character of any gender whatsoever. Is he straight? Is he gay? We don't know.

Tell me a few games then.
 
The sexuality of a bunch of characters is never actually confirmed. Link is never confirmed to have any signs of romance towards any character of any gender whatsoever. Is he straight? Is he gay? We don't know.

Tell me a few games then.

Oh boy. Here we go. Games with confirmed straight (I guess they might be bi, but for the sake of this im going to assume that if they don't mention it, they're straight)

Max Payne.
Metal Gear Solid (so all of them)
Metal Gear Rising: Revengence
Persona 3
Persona 4
Alan Wake
Braid
Uncharted
Dead Space
Final Fantasy IV, VI, VII, X.
Shadow of the Colossus
Assassin's Creed II
Dear Esther
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Super Meat Boy
God of War (all of them)
Gears of War (I think its confirmed. Not sure)
Lost Odyssey
Dante's Inferno
Dead Rising 2
Indigo Prophecy
Ratchet and Clank (I think so, I might be misremembering this one)
Lollipop Chainsaw
Duke Nukem (all of them)
Catherine
Splinter Cell
Warcraft 3 (Thrall or Arthas, pick one)
Silent Hill (most of them I'm pretty sure)
Planescape Torment
Heavy Rain
Every (as far as I know) Grand Theft Auto
Even god damn Pac-Man had a wife.

Obviously, Im forgetting a ton. I cant remember every single game and if it's confirmed or not, and there's tons of games I haven't played. This also isn't counting games based on TV shows or similar things, such as simpson games or other crap like that.

And Christ, you can't use the "we dont know" as an example of gay characters. For some characters, it doesn't matter at all. And that's fine. It doesn't have to be a big deal in every game. But in almost every other single game where the main character has a sexuality, be it a passing reference or a main plot point, they are straight. And again, on the "they might all be bi" point, so what? It wasn't mentioned, shown, or implied in these games. If it isn't mentioned in some way, it's irrelevant.
 
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^ to the post above me, take Metal Gear off the list of 'straight.' The boss herself was confirmed to be with Dr. Strangelove, Big Boss was confirmed to have 'relations' with Ocelot, and don't even get me started on Kaz or Solid. MGS is the most rainbowific game on the market which makes it all the more amazing to me.

Anywho, on the topic of gender roles.. I had a class on this. I wrote a twenty-five page paper on this. I'll condense. Also I'm not censoring the 'body parts.' It's biology.

I don't take offense to women being in lead roles. I take offense to the hypersexualized concepts that always seem to pop up. Think about this. Armor in a game for a woman has a midriff exposed 80% of the time, nipples are modeled for that extra bit of oomph on the model, and you can be sure that most of the clothing on a female character is rarely a second piece of geometry, it's just painted on as skin in a lot of games. I'm I'm going to have to play through a game like that with a female character, I would really just like to play as a whining male in a banana hammock to even the odds.

So, on the topic of Hypersexuality, let's use Bayonetta. Actually, I don't find her extremely bad when it comes to this. The whole game is off the wall. She's got the personality to USE that kind of figure and actions, and I loved the entire time. There was no putting her in her place, she was above that entirely. On the other hand, take a look at some of the other female protagonists who whine and complain, and wear nothing, and usually end up in a game where there's a male lead to take care of them. THAT's what grinds my gears.

I have nooo issues with a guy playing as a girl character. Online it can be rough figuring out who is who behind a computer but it's never really my business anyway. You grow used to it when you roleplay on message boards. I tend to exclusively play guys in rpgs. That's just how I am. It can be the same the other way around as long as they're not making the character the absolute epitome of everything stereotypical in a woman.
 
^ to the post above me, take Metal Gear off the list of 'straight.' The boss herself was confirmed to be with Dr. Strangelove, Big Boss was confirmed to have 'relations' with Ocelot, and don't even get me started on Kaz or Solid. MGS is the most rainbowific game on the market which makes it all the more amazing to me.

Welllllll, technically The Boss also had sexual relations with
The Sorrow
so I guess that makes her a bi. And this is the first time I've heard Ocelot having relations other than himself. Source please?
 
Welllllll, technically The Boss also had sexual relations with
The Sorrow
so I guess that makes her a bi. And this is the first time I've heard Ocelot having relations other than himself. Source please?

Source is Kojima interview. CBA to dig through the internet right now. I'd say run a google search.

And yeah, spoiler too.

Ocelot is still the worst kid.

And let's not forget Raikov.

Edit: I just ran a search. I remember there being a source on the TVtropes page about it, but it looks like they just about removed all sources. It is via word of god though. It was supposed to be alluded to by Ocelot having his 'hero worship' all over the place for Big Boss, and by the end of the game you pretty much see them getting along. When the patriots thing started is when things kicked up. I might be wrong but I do remember something from Peace Walker about it, not to mention a codec with Eva in Snake Eater all about how dumb Snake was for not realizing it.

In MGS4 forget the subcontext. It's there. It's right there. Hell, during one of the fights Ocelot kisses snake and restores your psyche meter... lol.

Metal Gear
 
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I play as a girl 100% of the time because I'm a girl irl and I enjoy being a girl but I totally understand lots of guys pick female characters because they get to watch that booty sway the whole game.


This ^

On a serious note though, I don't see the big deal either way. Sometimes a female protagonist can bring a lot to a story, woman have different mannerisms than men. Most of your bro shooters now days usually have some testosterone pumped male lead that has the cliche emotionless shoot first be punished later mentality....and it's boring.

Flip that around with a female lead and things could get interesting. Being around woman all my life has brought one of many things into perspective. While the male tackles issues head on or physically in most cases, the female tends to be more tactical, patient, and tends to destroy their victim in a psychological manner.

Now I'm not saying this is always the case because many of us are different, but it most certainly can make a story more interesting.

If I have the option to pick and it doesn't add to story I typically go male, but sometimes I do pick female to simply change things up....or to watch that booty sway. :D
 
Look, I'm gay, and would it be nice to have more representation in games? Sure, why not? But I'd rather have a gay character be in a game for the plot, and not just because "oh, there are too many straight characters, let's make him gay".

And I though we were naming straight white male lead characters. If I'm not mistaken, the lead character in Lollipop Chainsaw is Twilight Sparkle a straight while female
 
Look, I'm gay, and would it be nice to have more representation in games? Sure, why not? But I'd rather have a gay character be in a game for the plot, and not just because "oh, there are too many straight characters, let's make him gay".

And I though we were naming straight white male lead characters. If I'm not mistaken, the lead character in Lollipop Chainsaw is Twilight Sparkle a straight while female

I don't want it to be part of the plot every time. It doesn't have to be. It can just be something that helps to flesh out the character, without being something that defines them. For example,
Kanji
in persona 4. It's not just about wanting to feel more accepted and a part of games, It's also that I'm bored of the generic main character we get in many many many MANY games. There should be more female characters, more characters of different races, ages, and all those other things because that's how varied humans are.

And sorry, guess that means I only have 30 something examples off the top of my head.
 
There should be more female characters, more characters of different races, ages, and all those other things because that's how varied humans are.

You're coming off as one of the social justice warriors from Tumblr. What I'm reading this as is: "Humans are varied, therefore we should make games to represent all the different types of identities just because they're varied."
 
I am a girl and will play as a girl if I am given a choice to do so (though in the past I have played as a boy due to lack of choice). Having said this, I really do not see any problem with what others choose to play as. Those who take offence should mind their own games.
 
You're coming off as one of the social justice warriors from Tumblr. What I'm reading this as is: "Humans are varied, therefore we should make games to represent all the different types of identities just because they're varied."

lol **** tumblr.

But, Is there a reason we shouldn't? Should games really just be based off the majority? I don't mean every game should be about a minority of some kind because again, that's boring. Honestly, it's like you're trying to make varied games, characters, and settings a bad thing. I'm getting so bored with a lot of games these days. I want some damn variations in the gameplay, music, art, characters, story, whatever. This is one way that can be achieved, while at the same time making gaming a more inclusive hobby.

And you hardly even reply to my posts. You pick one minor detail of it, and then ignore the rest of the post. You asked me to list games with straight characters. I did, but then oh, one was a girl. Sorry. I explain how gay, or other minority characters could be used and examples of good ones but nope, I must be some social justice tumblr warrior. Way to go after me instead of actually discussing my points.
 
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I have no problems with guys playing as girls and girls playing as guys, but it's when you get those RPGs in which the female characters wear skimpy armour (Or the game has a ton of mods for 'female enhancement') and then guys choose the girls only for that and broadcast that across the gaming community, that's when I draw a line. If they don't broadcast it and keep it to themselves then that's fine, its just that it is rather annoying when you go on a forum or Tumblr to talk about one of these games and you just get bombarded with things like "LOL, u can c her bewbs!".

You can get girls who also only choose male characters for their heavily sexualised appearances, but I think girls broadcast it less than guys so most people only see guys as 'gaming perverts'. Though when I scour mod websites for Skyrim I rarely see any skimpy male armour mods (Though I think they would be more hilarious than attractive)

Another thing that annoys me is when you get games that make the girl a reward that just implies that girls cannot save themselves from the antagonist and that they are not as strong as the male character, though girls being rewards is showcased all across the media and games have been getting better, the fact you can even be a female protagonist in the majority of games now is a step away from the reward females- Take Lara Croft, yes she is heavily sexualised but she is a very strong character!

Though overall I think games are not the biggest offender in the gender department (Hollywood really needs to take a check on some of the characters they have churned out), it's mainly the gamers themselves creating these problems.
 
LOL I used to wonder about the reverse gender roles. So I asked my friends who did this. One of my male friends said "If I'm gonna have to stare at an ass all the time, it may as well be a cute female ass". One of my female friends who play nothing but male chars said "It was the only way I can get guys to stop trying to cyber with me all the time." So at that point I was like "damn they both make sense".
 
lol **** tumblr.

But, Is there a reason we shouldn't? Should games really just be based off the majority? I don't mean every game should be about a minority of some kind because again, that's boring. Honestly, it's like you're trying to make varied games, characters, and settings a bad thing. I'm getting so bored with a lot of games these days. I want some damn variations in the gameplay, music, art, characters, story, whatever. This is one way that can be achieved, while at the same time making gaming a more inclusive hobby.

And you hardly even reply to my posts. You pick one minor detail of it, and then ignore the rest of the post. You asked me to list games with straight characters. I did, but then oh, one was a girl. Sorry. I explain how gay, or other minority characters could be used and examples of good ones but nope, I must be some social justice tumblr warrior. Way to go after me instead of actually discussing my points.

I'm not trying to make varied characters a bad thing. I'm trying to make varied characters that exist just because some people want variation and not for an actual good reason a bad thing.

What do mean, variations in music? Seriously, explain that one to me. And gameplay? Literally every game is different. Art? Along with gameplay, play a different game! If you want differences in art, gameplay, and story, play a different game.

I notice how you don't criticize Zr for pointing out a flaw in your list. Oh well.

Where did you point out how gay or other minority characters can be used in a good way? There was one example of how a female character could be used, and that was by the Whistler, not even you. Where are YOU saying how they can be used? I'm not seeing anything.

And yes, you do seem like a social justice warrior. The way your posts appear to me, it appears as if you just want video games to be inclusive for the sake of being inclusive. It appears that you just want minorities in the game just so we can have minorities in games. That's the kind of things social justice warriors do, and it's very apparent in you.

You say I don't respond to previous posts? Fine.

Your list of straight characters. Yes, you have listed that. And? There's a reason that they don't make games with predominantly female heroes. Allow me to cite a Penny Arcade article covering a report about a study done by the EEDAR (Electronic Entertainment Design and Research). They found that out of 669 games, 24 had female protagonists. 300 gave the choice of a female lead. They then looked at three months of sales data for the game. As the man interviewed explained, "If you look at the first three months, with the smaller quantity of female-led games, they did not sell as well. The ones that were male-only sold better," The article also says that male-only heroes sell better, but the ones where you choose gender will get reviewed now. The article, by the way, can be found here.

What can we take away from this? I think it's fairly obvious that video games companies want to sell their games, and thus will appeal to market forces. The market currently demands male-only hero games, and that's what's going to be made. My main conclusion here is that if you want more games to be made with minority heroes, then you should work to change the culture of gaming first. Change the minds of the people who buy the games. They're the ones with the money, and they're the ones who really decide what games get made.
 
On the topic of gay characters, I don't mind gay characters as long as the game isn't revolving around that one thing if that makes any sense. It's not about the character being gay, it's about that being the huge spotlight. Same with other stuff like colored characters, female characters, all of it.
 
I'm not trying to make varied characters a bad thing. I'm trying to make varied characters that exist just because some people want variation and not for an actual good reason a bad thing.

So, variation for the sake of having unique and different experiences is a bad thing?

What do mean, variations in music? Seriously, explain that one to me. And gameplay? Literally every game is different. Art? Along with gameplay, play a different game! If you want differences in art, gameplay, and story, play a different game.

You know how there are different kinds of music? I mean that. It was just an example. Like how a game like how a game like FTL can have an electronic soundtrack while a final fantasy game might have an orchestrated soundtrack. a A lot of games do have similar soundtracks, and a lot of different. I was just using it as an example of things I like to be varied in games. I... the second half of this doesn't even make sense. I'm talking about games in general. I like games that do things different. Games like Okami and Killer 7 for unique art style. Games like Persona 3 and 4 for a unique mix of gameplay, and unique characters. And no, not literally every game is different. There are endless amounts of generic shooters and RPGs and action games that are all very similar. I can't go play a game that's different if one doesn't exist.

I notice how you don't criticize Zr for pointing out a flaw in your list. Oh well.

Well I didn't actually read it because I'm currently playing the Metal Gear Solid series, and he had it spoiler tagged. I would like to avoid spoilers.

Where did you point out how gay or other minority characters can be used in a good way? There was one example of how a female character could be used, and that was by the Whistler, not even you. Where are YOU saying how they can be used? I'm not seeing anything.

I mentioned Kanji from persona 4. Being gay (or bi, or just confused, its not very clear) is a part of his character. Yes, they address it. But, he's not just the gay character. There's so much more to him than that, that once that part of the story is resolved it isn't brought up even during his social link. It's an important part of him, but not the most important part. That's the kind of character I like. Also see Cortez in mass effect 3. As for female characters, Samus is a good example (not counting Other M. I like to pretend that game doesn't exist). She's a female character, but it's not the most important part of her. Again, I'm not saying that EVERY game has to have a female transgender black gay jewish main character.

And yes, you do seem like a social justice warrior. The way your posts appear to me, it appears as if you just want video games to be inclusive for the sake of being inclusive. It appears that you just want minorities in the game just so we can have minorities in games. That's the kind of things social justice warriors do, and it's very apparent in you.

Again, what is the problem with wanting more minority characters in games? There simply aren't that many. ****, this isn't something that I spend hours every day protesting about, or sending letters in to devs, or anything like that. Seriously, if you're going to keep calling me that I'm just going to stop responding. I don't want an argument, I want a discussion. Discuss my points, not me.

Your list of straight characters. Yes, you have listed that. And? .

I literally listed the games with straight characters. You said you wanted it. The point was that you said there weren't many games with them, and I was just showing you them. That's it.

There's a reason that they don't make games with predominantly female heroes. Allow me to cite a Penny Arcade article covering a report about a study done by the EEDAR (Electronic Entertainment Design and Research). They found that out of 669 games, 24 had female protagonists. 300 gave the choice of a female lead. They then looked at three months of sales data for the game. As the man interviewed explained, "If you look at the first three months, with the smaller quantity of female-led games, they did not sell as well. The ones that were male-only sold better," The article also says that male-only heroes sell better, but the ones where you choose gender will get reviewed now. The article, by the way, can be found here

I'm sure that's true. And it sucks. It really shouldn't be like that. It's the same deal with endless millitary FPS games. Guess I'll have to rely on indie devs more often now.

What the **** am I doing with my life.

Edit: Yes yes yes exactly what Zr said.
 
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