US Senator Proposes bill that would outlaw lootboxes

[Bcat]

Wow....cosmetic only loot boxes are just as predatory as p2w ones. Why make an exception for that? That combined with the extremely vague ‘under 18’ specification makes me feel like this bill is poorly thought out. I’m more confident than ever that this won’t pass.

 

[DJStarstryker]

Exempts purely cosmetic items and traditional DLC add-on content

That's a terrible exception. Overwatch has a lot of cosmetic items and a lot of children play it. There's lots of stories of children begging people to buy them some skin or putting in their parents' credit card number to buy a skin without their parents' knowledge.

Cosmetic things are collectible, and therefore can make people want to spend lots of money unnecessarily too.

So I guess Animal Crossing Pocket Camp would actually get exempted from this law as written then. Because it's similar to Overwatch - the stuff is cosmetic only.

"the publisher has constructive knowledge that any of its users are under the age of 18"

Bolding is my emphasis. Isn't that like... basically any video game? Wow.

Many (not all), but yeah. This would even apply to M rated video games, because 17 year olds can play those.

 

[Envy]

Yeah, it's kind of strange that we're downplaying cosmetic content when we are on an Animal Crossing forum of all things.

Call me shallow, but the appearance of my character is very important to me while I play a game.

 

[Alienfish]

Yeah, it's kind of strange that we're downplaying cosmetic content when we are on an Animal Crossing forum of all things.

Call me shallow, but the appearance of my character is very important to me while I play a game.

Well, down to it it's the damn loot boxes and gacha gambling that is wrong. I mean yeah I could pay for say a shirt if I know I would getting it 100%, not paying the same or more for random boxes where I won't get it etc. and ending up having to pay way too much. I like customizing too but games like PC and other gacha and lootbox game are taking it to ridiculous levels and there are children/under 18 etc. playing so, yeah I totally support removing this dumb **** from games.

 

[MasterM64]

Wow....cosmetic only loot boxes are just as predatory as p2w ones. Why make an exception for that? That combined with the extremely vague ‘under 18’ specification makes me feel like this bill is poorly thought out. I’m more confident than ever that this won’t pass.

Going off of Justin's post, it actually would ban cosmetic loot boxes since they are randomized loot boxes. The bill still allows for traditional DLC content including purely cosmetic ones (like the Horse Armor DLC in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for example).

 

[Bcat]

Going off of Justin's post, it actually would ban cosmetic loot boxes since they are randomized loot boxes. The bill still allows for traditional DLC content including purely cosmetic ones (like the Horse Armor DLC in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for example).

Thanks for that clarification! I’m ok with selling cosmetic things like skins as long as it’s a flat price upfront with no random gambling nonsense.

Also: holy cow it’s picking up steam O.O

 

[Justin]

Going off of Justin's post, it actually would ban cosmetic loot boxes since they are randomized loot boxes. The bill still allows for traditional DLC content including purely cosmetic ones (like the Horse Armor DLC in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for example).

My reading of the bill is that cosmetic items are exempted in general and that would override any rules on loot-boxes, so cosmetic loot-boxes would actually be allowed. I don't write legislation though so I may be reading it wrong.

EDIT: So I read over it again and I think M64 might be right actually about cosmetic loot boxes being banned, despite my original interpretation. The section on exclusions, like cosmetic items, is a sub-section of the 'PAY-TO-WIN MICROTRANSACTION' section whereas the loot box section is an entirely separate section.

I'm not sure I agree with that, although I guess I'm an outlier here. If the bill was clearly targeted at children specifically (as I outlined before, it's way more broad than that) it would make a lot of sense and I'm fully on board with that, but I'm not sure that it's really the government's role to tell me as an adult that I cannot buy cosmetic loot boxes. I know what I'm doing if I choose to do so.

 

[Bcat]

I'm not sure I agree with that, although I guess I'm an outlier here. If the bill was clearly targeted at children specifically (as I outlined before, it's way more broad than that) it would make a lot of sense and I'm fully on board with that, but I'm not sure that it's really the government's role to tell me as an adult that I cannot buy cosmetic loot boxes. I know what I'm doing if I choose to do so.

Yeah, I definitely think the wording is too vague there. That gives too much room for the game devs to argue that their game doesn't count because it's marketed to adults and that'll lead to unfair exceptions being made.

They need to go by ratings, like games rated teen and under.

 

[radical6]

Gaming is one step further to being eradicated. Good riddance.

also lol rip @ overwatch/ea/etc

in Japan its really bad that the government had to pass a few laws. whales would drop like.. 3k on mobile gacha games. this led to companies having to legally show the rates for getting something to drop

tbh just ban kids from buying stuff or put a monthly limit of like 10 bucks. yeah kids can lie but they shouldnt have access to a credit card anyway.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

In the words of the late and great Grumpy Cat; GOOD.

 

[Tao]

tbh just ban kids from buying stuff or put a monthly limit of like 10 bucks. yeah kids can lie but they shouldnt have access to a credit card anyway.

I don't know how you would ban kids from buying stuff, that's really just not feasible. It would also make things like gift cards, something typically bought for and by kids, a bit redundant.

As for putting limits on: if I, an adult, couldn't buy stuff until tomorrow because of some limit enforced because of idiot kids, I would be pretty P/O'ed.


At best digital storefronts (all of them, not just gaming) should make it more difficult than just throwing in some card details and start spending money. I dunno, even if it requires some sort of bank or even phone verification that you're not some annoying little ankle biter (or a whole list of 'people that aren't you'). Sure, it would be an inconvenience the first time you used a store, but it's a process you shouldn't have to do more than once per store if you create an account, it being your own damn fault if they figure out your awful login information...Would also aid in general theft prevention if the thief had to go through more effort than just slapping in the details literally printed on the card they've presumably stole alongside some easily accessible publicly available information such as address details.

It's honestly pretty ridiculous how easy it is for somebody to start using your card online. IRL we have pin numbers as well as the option to ask for a secondary form of ID. Online I can literally start spending money in seconds just with the info written on the card itself.

 

[radical6]

I don't know how you would ban kids from buying stuff, that's really just not feasible. It would also make things like gift cards, something typically bought for and by kids, a bit redundant.

As for putting limits on: if I, an adult, couldn't buy stuff until tomorrow because of some limit enforced because of idiot kids, I would be pretty P/O'ed.


At best digital storefronts (all of them, not just gaming) should make it more difficult than just throwing in some card details and start spending money. I dunno, even if it requires some sort of bank or even phone verification that you're not some annoying little ankle biter (or a whole list of 'people that aren't you'). Sure, it would be an inconvenience the first time you used a store, but it's a process you shouldn't have to do more than once per store if you create an account, it being your own damn fault if they figure out your awful login information...Would also aid in general theft prevention if the thief had to go through more effort than just slapping in the details literally printed on the card they've presumably stole alongside some easily accessible publicly available information such as address details.

It's honestly pretty ridiculous how easy it is for somebody to start using your card online. IRL we have pin numbers as well as the option to ask for a secondary form of ID. Online I can literally start spending money in seconds just with the info written on the card itself.

For a long time, people have used giftcards to pay for online memberships. I feel like the current fuss about it now is that kids have no concept of money and will burn through money easily. Making kids go through physical barriers makes it less likely they'll throw their parent's life savings on Fortnite. A cashier will get suspicious if a 12 year old buys $500 worth of giftcards. Online games do not care.

Of course, that was back when it was mostly for membership or other stuff. You knew it was guaranteed. The CSGO gambling thing was the tip of the iceberg imo.

This stuff is basically gambling 101 for kids.

I don't care what adults do, but gacha/lootboxes employ advertising and addiction techniques so you want to spend 3 dollars to speed something up. It's manipulative but it exists everywhere. It's just in your face due to social media and the internet. I don't think stores would make it more challenging for adults to buy stuff though. I think they'll just ask for your age (some games already do), and this really depends if a kid answers truthfully or not (probably won't). But that might cover their legal bases if they can go "Hey we restricted kids! We have a spending cap!"